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Hi,


My FIL passed away last 8/14/2021 and he was survived by his wife (my MIL) and his son (my husband) the problem is his wife has been showing signs of dementia for a couple of years, and she has been an utter handful due to COVID. Day centers were closed, placement was out of the question and the stress unfortunately lead to my FIL passing away.


My husband is trying to do everything in his power to do right by his mom, overall I cannot say she is an extremely difficult case per-se. She is just an attention starved person and I am sick of it. We have tried to find her placement, in our state MC is not covered by Medicaid, and due to the fact she requires 1-to-1 care unfortunately she has been kicked out of many SNF, and she is a wandering risk so assisted living is not possible.


Medications appear to have the paradoxical effect on her, or come with other side effects such as delusions, suicidal thoughts, vomiting, lack of eating, lack of sleeping. So her care team has given up on that approach, we even tried geriatric psych and they were unable to find something that would work for her that is relatively safe with minimal side effects. The problem is with attention and social interaction she is perfectly fine, the issue is until we go through all the appeals and hoops to get her the hours she requires my husband is left to flip the bill, which is one thing but he is also forced to give up his time.


We were meant to buy a house and start a family, and all of that went up in smokes because now he has to take care of his mother. She was never a good person prior to being sick, she has always been manipulative and not a team player. Her own family did not even bother to show up for my FIL funereal. I get she is alone, and she is the only blood related family he has left, but I cannot help but feel neglected. I know this is not his fault, but the reality I want his mother to die. Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer.


She has always treated me poorly and acted as if I am not good enough. As my FIL put it she was jealous of me, which I understand is normal. My Father did the same thing with my husband. The difference is my husband is a much kinder, and understanding person that no matter what horrible thing my family did or said about him he just smiled and took it, because he wanted to be with me. Even when I defend him, he always told me do not worry about it, he use to say I will grow on them like moss. I am just not that strong, I hate his mother, I wish she was the one to die and not his father. I hate the amount of suffering her and her family has caused them because they did not properly plan for their future. I hate the fact that I know my behavior causes my husband much stress, and I feel bad because I am trying to protect myself by distancing from the situation because I cannot do it. My MIL very existence causes me to massive anxiety.


I know I am a failure of a wife, but I cannot be by my husband's side during this time, I told him today I am moving out and need space. I am leaving my husband that has been nothing but understanding and supportive though my family's issues. I am not cut out to be a caregiver for someone I hate, or even be in the general area of the process that goes into. Every phone call my husband gets regarding her care my stomach flips and I want to vomit. We are in both couples and individual therapy and it pains me to see my husband sit there and blame himself.


This man legit apologized for showing his emotions and stress around me when dealing with his mother. He apologized for essentially being an advocate for his mother. Here I am putting myself first, while I leave the man I love behind because I am simply not built to care for someone I hate. I do not have the strength to forgive.


I hate this disease and what it does to families, I really am a b*** aren’t I? Such a horrible person.

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First off..."As my FIL put it she was jealous of me, which I understand is normal." it is not normal for a parent to be jealous of their child's spouse. Put that thought right out of your mind. It is a sign of an unhealthy attachment between parent and child,
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
I do not think by normal his father meant it was right, but more so that it is unfortunately common to have parents express jealous tendencies for their child’s spouse. Especially when you are dealing with a parent and child on the spectrum.

At the very least I never took it as something that was not proper or should be the way things are. Just a matter of fact that it is the way things are within many families. My father was the same way to a degree, I was a the first born, and no man was ever good enough.I think his father meant from that POV, at least that is how I viewed it
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Your husband should not be paying for anything out of the joint assets, i.e. what you collectively made during the marriage.

And if he actually stays after you leave, then he loves his mother and/or his inheritance more than you. Inheritance further is his property and not yours in my state, anyway. Why would you put yourself out for a man who could just divorce you?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
He has not used anything out of our savings, or has stopped contributing to the house. He is a wonderful provider, he is using his own income to cover his mother expenses in the mean time since unfortunately all she has is social security and Medicaid is being extremely closed fist with her hours. So he is working on appeals to get her the care she needs

Thing is I know he loves me, and I do not think it is a competition between who he loves more. I can see it hurts him and he has expressed he wishes he could just turn a blind eye and let what happens happens to his mother. He cares, that is his mother and wishes to do all that he can for her.

Yet my friends and family have told me the same thing leave him and if he does not follow that means he has made his choice. Which I do not think is fair, he has a standard of care he wishes for his mother I should not penalize him for having such standards. I mean that leave of concern and care is one of the aspects I fell in love with, Though now I am sick of it because it he is wasting time and energy on a person I do not feel is worth any sense of kindness and should simply rot away in a nursing home and die alone?

What makes it rough she is at that middle point of dementia where they are difficult to assess.
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Maybe some time away will help you to gain some clarity & perspective.

Sounds like your Husband wants to find the right care accom for his Mother, but it is not as quick or straight forward as you both would like.

There is smooth sailing in life, but choppy waves & wild storms at times too.

Is it worth losing your marriage for this particular storm?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
That is what he told me, he told me to get space he offered to pay wherever I want to go or stay. Told me to get away from it all and just be myself. I just feel like s***, that I am letting him go through this all alone especially after losing his light house his father.

He has been nothing but understanding, and here I am being a child unable to deal with his mother to add some relief on his part and be a supportive ear in his time of need, cause anything regarding his mother makes my blood boil.
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"Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer."

This is insanely disturbing. Leave and stay away. You are a danger to her and to your husband. Get some help.
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Katefalc Jan 2022
SICK
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You paint a picture of your husband being The Perfect Husband, yet you have visions of watching your mil die a gruesome and painful death because she's basically a pain in the arse? You are 100% unsupportive of the dh who's been 100% supportive of you, in spite of what sounds like horribly childish behavior on your part?

You're leaving a wonderful man because you hate his sick and elderly mother, both of whom are on the spectrum, by your own words.

Are you serious with all this??

What advice does the therapist have for you? If it's "either help your man or get out of his way" then I agree 100%.

True love requires compromise and giving of oneself even under stressful circumstances. Think about what you're willing to give to this marriage and if the answer is "nothing more" then file for divorce, that's my suggestion. Because your husband needs a partner who can help him get his mother situated so he can live with himself as a son. Family does not turn their back on a loved one when the going gets tough. They find a solution, no matter what it takes.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Reality is it is not something I am proud of, though they are my honest feelings. Our therapist has told me to do what is best for me, it is just difficult since I know I am 100% in the wrong. I know I am being childish, and petty.

Should have phrased it better meant to say my husband is on the spectrum, his mother does have mental health issues though which do complicate matters.

You are 100% correct that is what I should be. He is far from perfect, but he has been wonderful to me and my family, which hurts the most cause I know what I should do but it is hard to still do it.
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I think you've perhaps coloured your self-portrait rather strongly. Do you feel a bit better for getting it out in type? We all have emotions we're not proud of. I certainly wouldn't think it a bad idea to drag out what you're feeling and have a close look at it.

The question is, what to do.

How long have you been married?

Is MIL actually living in your and husband's home at the moment?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Yeah, it is nice to let it out, we have been married for over 10 years, both in our late 20’s. My husband is staying with his mother, while I am still at our apartment. Early on after his father’s passing he tried to make it work by going back and forth but we had a few incidents so he has made the choice to stay with her until the proper aids are put into place.
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It's not acceptable for OP's DH to be paying for OP to live elsewhere so he can spend every night and minute away from work caring for his mother. There are ways to advocate, to help, without being the nanny-slave.

OP's rage is somewhat misplaced as it is really rage toward her husband prioritizing his mother over her in terms of time--and for an infuriatingly indeterminate time period.
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ExhaustedPiper Jan 2022
"I know this is not his fault, but the reality I want his mother to die. Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer."

I don't think this OP is the kind of person to help or advocate for anyone, including her own husband who she is abandoning less than six months after his father passed and he is trying to deal with his mother who is ill. By the OP's own words- "I cannot say she is an extremely difficult case per-se. She is just an attention starved person and I am sick of it."

The woman just lost her husband less than six months ago, and this OP wants to see her "suffer".

I personally hope the OP and her husband divorce and the husband finds a partner deserving of his loyalty and love, instead of the selfish heartless "partner" he has now.

Yet you think OP should be the "priority" right now. SMH.
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Your FIL died back in August/2021 so he hasn't been gone that long. I'm assuming that he bore most of the burden of your MIL's care needs. Your husband has been running himself taking on his mom who needs constant attention for the last few months, and you're moving out. It's only been a few months. Many of the people on this forum have been at it for YEARS.
Your MIL is not the reason you are leaving your husband. I understand that you hate this woman. You hated her before the dementia. Your reasons are your own and no judgment about it. You do ask here, "I really am a b*tch, aren't I?"
Yes, you really are but you're doing the right thing by leaving your husband because he probably deserves a lot better than you. Instead of lamenting about the massive anxiety your MIL causes you simply by being alive, you could maybe relieve some of your husband's burden here. Pick up the phone and make a few calls to different care facilities in your area. Go and tour some of them. Find out which ones have MC areas. Most of the larger chain-owned ones do and they take Medicaid. Her son does not have to pay for her care. Granted it's likely she won't get into a top-shelf facility with only Medicaid paying.
But why should that bother you? I'm sure you'll be delighted if the worst nursing home in your state accepts her. You do after all admit to wanting her to suffer and die a violent death.
I can't even believe that you'd tell people, strangers at that, about your husband apologizing for showing his emotions to you his wife and for being his mother's advocate. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did you ever entertain the possibility that your husband loves his mother, and you're not the only person he has love for? He needs help finding a permanent living situation for his mother. Maybe you could grow up and make yourself useful and help him with it.
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Are you sharing a house with MIL? I can't tell. If you are and have reached this level of panic and desperation you are right to remove yourself from the house. If you and your husband are living separately from her and he goes to her place to take care of things your response seems out of proportion to the situation. Either way, I'm glad you are in counseling because you are definitely in crisis. I hope for the best outcome for you and your H, whatever the best outcome may be.
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Quite amazingly, you tell us this: "I know this is not his fault, but the reality I want his mother to die. Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer." While there may be more than a few who feel this desperation, I think most would cloak the feelings in different words than this; this truly exhibits a level of violence and desperation that is quite scary. You have lost already some of the inhibitions that prevent us from saying such things as this out loud; that means you honestly are in a psychiatric emergency in all truth, in my humble opinion.
Whatever the outcome with the MIL, it is time for YOU to seek psychological help.
It may be that your limitations are such that you cannot give in home care. No judgement from ME, here, as though I loved being a nurse I could never have done what I did 24/7 in home. So my limitations and such that I have always recognized that.
In all of this I do not know if MIL actually lives with you, but I assume so given her needs. And she is a tough case. It is not so unusual as you might think for patients to have paradoxical affect from medications, and VD is truly one of the most difficult to deal with. If MIL has been shown the exit in various facilities, as you say she has, it would not be surprising that you cannot live with her, especially when you are planning to start a family. THAT is not possible if MIL lives with you; she won't get better. She will get worse.
If you are young enough to just now be planning a family I suspect MIL is not very old; she may have decades left. If your husband is also sinking money into all this, as you infer, then the assets meant for his own nuclear family is instead invested in his ill Mother.
I would suggest that you leave now. Your feelings are out of control. You should seek help. If your husband doesn't place his mother while you are long I suspect you are not now/will not be in future strong enough to be the caregiver for this woman, and I suspect the marriage is over OR your husband places his Mom somewhere where the state will provide where he is unable to. Sorry, it sounds all so cruel, but I don't see any options here, and when I read the responses I think that others really don't either. This can be like dealing with a psychotic person unless you ARE there 24/7. I don't know anyone capable of giving up their own life in that manner.
You are very well spoken. I suspect you are very intelligent and capable of working to support yourself. You are not capable of doing this. There are no children involved. Sadly I would leave. Your husband is a good man, and torn between Mom and wife. I am afraid he has made his choice. To be frank I believe it to be dangerous to your mental health to stay and perhaps dangerous to others to have you there.
I am so sorry. Not everything has a good answer. Not everything can be fixed.
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I really feel everyone's being a little too literal and thus harsh on the OP here.

My SO has joked about how he wishes his parents could die in a plane crash for their sakes. They literally have no mindset for living once one of them is gone beyond "wanting to die" but not having a gun. It'd at least be what they ant.

I really think OP would be seeing this differently if her DH's help consisted of helping mom find the resources as opposed to DH BEING the resource. If the priority were the former, I'm sure OP would be glad to research ALs or aides.
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MJ1929 Jan 2022
I'd say there's a time and place for those words, and it isn't on a public forum of strangers. Those thoughts are best saved for a psychiatrist's office.

In my opinion, OP went far over the line, and for the safety of all involved, she should leave the home immediately.
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Helpless, how old are you?

You say that your and DH's plans of having children went up in smoke because of his mother; but his mother has only been on your plate since August of this past year, yes?

Have you looked at Nursing Homes with dementia units? What do you mean when you say she is "fine" with one to one attention?

Folks with dementia are seldom "fine".

You seem to be saying as well that there are limitations on the meds that her team has tried. Are they (or is DH) unwilling to try an antipsychotic like Seroquel? You really need to find a "team" that is willing to consider all the possibilities. Also consider the fact that MIL may be mentally ill in addition to having dementia. If she has always had a "dramatic" personality, consider that some of the "side-effects" may be self-reported but not necessarily present. Has anyone tried a placebo to see if she has "side effects" from one of those?

I certainly think that getting some time and space to yourself is a good thing, but I wouldn't give up the ship quite yet.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
My husband does not want to put her on antipsychotics. He views medication as a last resort her care team is on the same page. She is actually okay when she has people around her. No signs of aggression, engages in conversation and is generally very happy. So in his eyes medication is unnecessary especially if it causes personal distress to his mother,

He does want the best care for his mother, even though at the core I do not think she is worth the effort, and to a degree I do not think he does either. We had a talk about it and it seems he really doing this for himself. He wants to be able to live with himself and say he tried everything possible to keep her happy, just sucks that he is willing to put our happiness on hold.

We are both in our late 20’s. I cannot answer what else they have done, my husband has been doing his best to keep his mother’s issues to himself and away from me. I really only know about the major changes, but outside of just general phone calls we really have not spoken much for the last couple of weeks. He has been doing a lot to make her apartment safer, and has been trying to find aids that his mother may gravitate towards.
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Helpless,
This sounds similar to a posting over at the Alzheimer’s site, but from the wife’s point of view. Assuming that this is the same situation, and having followed that, I’d say it’s best if you do remove yourself from the home. Both you and your husband write about how you are trapped and want to do harm to the MIL. Your husband is enmeshed with and committed to supporting your MIL, though he is aware of her manipulative nature. It may be possible that her extensive reactions to meds are driven by what seems to be a mental illness. He has made his choice. It’s not tenable for you to stay, and it’s time to throw in the towel.
I will say that if this is a cross-forum trolling attempt your persistance is phenomenal.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Probably is the same situation, I know he was called the Alzheimer’s association a lot, we still get stuff in the mail from them.

Yes, I am aware he has made his choice. To be honest, I do not know if he is aware she is manipulative. Which is part of the issue I have with her. I know she is sick, but she is still dragging her son through the mud for her own well-being which does not seem fair.

Nor is having him care for his mother tenable. Feelings a weird you can know something is wrong and want to change it but still want to do so. I still love him and want to be with him. Just when I try to be supportive something flips inside of me when it comes to her.
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To answer a few questions in one post. We have been dealing with his mother since COVID hit. She was brought to the hospital when my husband suspected she was having a stroke back in Aug of 2020. My husband requested an MRI to be done, since he knew nothing would appear of the CT. He suspected she was having a bilateral cerebral stroke, when he informed the doctors they chalked it up up a UTI and requested follow up care with outpatient to get the MRI. Since he only symptom she was expecting was aphasia. Though the hospital contributed that to the confusion that can be brought on by a UTI in the elderly. Long story short is my husband was right we took her another hospital that day and they confirmed she had a “minor” bilateral cerebral stroke.

Since then it has been a rough battle with my MIL, unfortunately our state does not have wandering laws if the person even with dementia knows where they are going and knows how to come back. Dementia in itself is not enough to keep someone inside even for their own safety, unfortunately she was still deemed to have capacity. Problem is my MIL would go to her sisters house everyday but her family did not like that. They started to call 911 each time she did it because it was too painful for them to see my MIL like that. My MIL would call 911 when either my husband or my FIL would tell her she cannot go see her family or tried to redirect her telling the police that they are keeping her inside the house. When they explained what was going on for the most part they did not care, my MIL and FIL apartment became a revolving door with officers because either my MIL would call or her family.

That is when my husband made the choice to peruse guardianship, and in the meantime would pay for care while he started on the Medicaid process. We tired to get her AIDS through Medicare using the VNS for things like her being a fall risk. They called his bull, and said she was not even though he had documentation from multiple doctors they did not buy it. She was considered to be “fine” for the time being.

My husband and his father share the load as best as possible but my FIL did most of the heavy lifting throughout the day especially early on due to COVID. Currently husband is staying in his mothers apartment at the request of the courts until suitable support is put into the place. They are helping him, because he has documented every encounter he has had and the court felt that a disservice has been done. Including all of the nursing homes that has kicked her out by simply bringing her back to the hospital due to potential aggressive behaviors. She is not a small lady, she is 5’10 and is extremely fit for someone her age. She enjoys staying fit so many workers do feel intimidated by her.

Some doctors recommended that she no longer exercises so the staff could feel safer around her. I have tried to be supportive for many years, it is just the system has failed us countless times, and I see what it is doing to my husband. I cannot imagine how it feels to hear doctors tell you to limit the few things your LO with dementia has control over because people are scared the big Hispanic women, or having people tell him he is entitled because he does not want go against his current geriatric doctors recommendations regarding medication.

When his mother was in one facility they called my husband up at 7:30 am asking if they could give her a sedative since they were unable to calm her down, She was going into other peoples rooms, walking around etc. . . Generally being annoying. He said he was not comfortable sedating her so early in the morning, and requested could they do some activities with her. They were understaffed, they tried to give her the drug, she called my husband and told him what they were doing and I have never seen him so upset. When he got to facility he saw his mother throwing up at the side of her bed, it appears they forced her to take it so she was trying to get rid of it.
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Why was the lady's own family unwilling to welcome her at her sister's house?

What does your MIL say about what she wants?

It strikes me that your husband had to demand an awful lot of tests before he got what sounds like a pretty reluctant diagnosis of vascular dementia. Was your MIL mentally ill before all this began? What was the medication they were giving her - and she is refusing - supposed to be for?

She's 5'10" and physically fit and evidently able to stride out quite long distances. She is by no means a falls risk. So why was that punted as a reason for requesting care? I am getting hints of galloping mental illness which your DH's family is still hoping to keep under wraps.

I'm sorry if you've already told us this, but how long have you been married?
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lealonnie1 Jan 2022
My thoughts exactly. This MIL seems to NOT fit the dementia dx at all ergo why meds aren't required or working and neither is SNF care or any real kind of elder care, for that matter. Going for a walk is not "wandering" and she's surely not a fall risk. Calling 911 repeatedly and wanting attention and acting FINE & happy with attention suggests boredom and loneliness as a new widow with mental health issues thrown in.

Op, your MIL is not even living in your home so why would your dh have to pay for you to leave your home, live elsewhere and "be yourself?" Too much here that makes no sense at ALL and smells like fish to me.
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This does not sound like dementia to me.
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Helpless, it appears that life is currently revolving around MIL. Period. End of story. No matter what her diagnosis, no matter what the rules, and no matter who is caring for her.
If you are not prepared to live your life that way I would suggest you discuss that with your husband. He has guardianship. He is unlikely to give that over to the state or to other family, and other family is clearly not willing to let this woman completely take over their lives.
Your husband will have to chose what to do with your MIL. If she is not at risk from wandering and is free to come and go and wants a lot of attention I suggest the family try putting her in an assisted living facility again. If that doesn't work, and she is still not diagnosed as demented (how can that be when she has been assigned a guardian? She either IS incomepent and needs a guardian or she is NOT incompetent and in that case there would BE NO GUARDIAN unless she wished to have one).
In any case, after this length of time I think you know there will be no peace, there will be no nuclear family that doesn't include MIL, and bringing children into this mess would be awful for ALL INVOLVED.
I myself would tell my husband "I care for you, but I cannot sacrifice my life to this. We have done all we can and there is no peace. It is turning me into something I don't want to be. I am so sorry, but I am leaving now. We need to see a lawyer for a separation, and I need to get my own place. I will support you as I would any friend, but that will not include care of your mother."
This is life. Some marriages work; some do not. For any number of reasons. For some people it is financial problems, for some it is something like this.
Only you can make the choice. You already know the facts. The facts are not likely to change, and you KNOW this, which is why your fantasy realm now is one in which death figures; that is NOT HEALTHY. Seek counseling for yourself, make your decisions, do your mourning and move on. There is very little choice unless you wish to continue on the way you are.
I also agree with others that this in no wise sounds like dementia. But in fact, it little matters WHAT it is, and in the realm of mental illness and dementia there is often no diagnosis until autopsy, IF THEN.
Best out to you. So sorry for this daily turmoil and torment. You and hubby are clearly bright and informed. You will have to make your own choices.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
I am not sure on the legal issues, all I know is he is currently in court hearings regarding guardianship, At this stage I believe she is considered AIP since no ruling has been given. I do not know much of guardianship or how it goes, as I mentioned he is keeping much of the details to himself.
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OP says she and DH are in their late 20s. This means that MIL is probably in her late 50s. She is a large strong woman, who for whatever reason is very controlling – successfully so. She showtimes brilliantly with an audience. DH does not want her sedated. She does not fit well into facilities. DH is an angel.

OP presents herself so badly that it’s easy to blame her. OP stops herself and us from blaming DH. However it does sound that this is a classic case of ‘choose – mother or wife’. OP did not expect this from marriage. No matter how wonderful DH is, or how bad she feels about her own failings, OP is probably better off out of this marriage.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
She is slightly older, she had him late in life. That said show timing is a phrase I have heard to describe her. It appears it is not uncommon for PWD when they are in the early or middle stages able to put on a performance so to speak to pass off as “Fine” which does make things difficult for insurance purposes.
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Would it surprise you if you were to discover that your MIL has a long history of [technical term] batsh!t craziness? If that were true, how would it alter your view of her? Or would it change anything?

We live in such enlightened times, hem-hem, that the weight of stigma attached to mental illness and the lengths people will go to to conceal its presence among their family members often get forgotten about. That stigma is however still very much with us, though it's the concealment that does more harm in the long run if you ask me.

In your situation what would be more troubling is that your saintly, understanding and protective husband had not felt able to tell you the truth. Not necessarily because he couldn't trust you with it, mind: there are also lots of unwritten rules and family pacts about not disclosing information to "outsiders" and maybe he was bound by something like that.

But anyway. This is pure speculation, fitting a possible solution (which would explain a lot, all the same) to a puzzle.

What do you think?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
No it would not surprise me, oddly enough my husband has asked me a similar question. If his mom said had cancer or another terminal illness would I feel the same way?

The truth is I do not know. After her stroke I did find myself being more understanding, and willing to at the very least play the part and be civil. Just as time went on the time commitment increased, the phone calls regarding her increased, the more frequent visits trying to keep her at peace so to speak.

I found that patience did run out quickly. So I am not 100% if it is the disease or the time that is the factor that I am truly fed up with and is causing the issues. I get I have expressed the dementia aspect in details, while maybe it is not dementia but at the very least she had MCI currently, and given her limited educational baseline the MMSE which is all I have been present for is inappropriate. I do know after her stroke he did have a full cognitive exam and evaluation but being as he is currently in a guardianship hearing I doubt it went well in terms of supporting his claims.

I do agree he is not keeping me in the loop as a means of protecting me, and I have no doubts even if I did not ask he would still do everything to limit my interactions just based off how my mood changes when anything regarding his mother comes into play.

I probably would still feel the same way. I do agree his mother and his family are trying to hide something. They are far too adamant of throwing her in a home. My husband has even offered to take her sister and my mother out for dinner or shopping and the family balks at the mere idea. He tried to setup a zoom event for the holidays being as this was the first one without his father. Offered to buy everyone a tablet, and even show them how to use it. Nothing. Something is off with his family when it comes to this, though granted how they treat him for simply being on the spectrum that much is easy to see they have no regard of mental health concerns.

I do get where you are coming from, and I honestly cannot say for certain how I would react but I do feel it is something far greater then just dementia, and his ideal situation does not exist no matter how hard he tries. Maybe that is what I am really upset over I do not know. He is trying to fix something that cannot be fixed. The system is not perfect, yes it is flawed, and yes you get what you pay for. The harsh reality is even if the top of the line facilities care is limited for people with complex and aggressive behaviors. Even if he capped out his entire salary to send her to the best facility. I do honestly doubt it would not make much of a difference, happiness is a mindset, and what she wants to make her happy is not something he can offer. She wants to be with her family, she wants to speak Spanish and probably reminisce about the memories she still has or whatever. He is killing himself to please someone that cannot be pleased by himself.

Maybe this is less about her and more so about us. I do not know, thanks for the questions though they did get me thinking,

See things like that I am okay with, I was okay with helping with the zoom meeting if they agreed. I can handle hands off things that does not mean direct involvement with her.
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Helpless, The more I read responses, the more I learn your age, the more I learn your husband doesn't share with you anything about guardianship and the MIL really totally undiagnosed, younger than we thought originally (tho your wanting children should have clued me in at once, ) the more I am thinking that you have hubby problems as well as MIL problems, the more I think that MIL may have been, as has been said, Bat-____ crazy. Seems more like "showtime" now than anything else. I have seen DOGS train their owners, let alone MILs training their sons.
I would leave this mess. Get the legal separation, get out on your own; you are clearly quite brilliant and there are jobs a plenty for you if you are not already working. Tell hubby you have just bowed out of elder care and in fact don't even want to hear the stories. Tell him you will give him at least 6 mo to a year to figure out who it is to be, you or Mom.
What in the WORLD difference will guardianship make for anything????? She is very unlikely to come into any control with that set of papers, and in fact if she has her own lawyer, and she is capable of coming and going as she is, there will BE no guardianship.
The more I hear the more I think you just pulled the MIL from Hades. Not certain you knew that when you married. This seems unlikely to be a sudden occurrance. And your hubby is apparently not forthcoming enough to share the truth with you.
I would leave. That had my vote in the beginning and the more I hear the more I believe there is not another choice. PLEASE don't stay until a poor child is brought into this mess "accidentally".
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Beatty Jan 2022
I know of someone who when married, did know her MIL-to-be had 'issues'. Post war refugee trauma, add in self-managent of pills/drink, volatile personality. Hard.

Married, stayed married, happily. Good solid boundaries set early on & reinforced about how much 'the good son' could do. He KNEW he could not fix or save her.

Sparked off by 'event' ?stroke ?infection, that MIL went way way off the rails. Locked psych wards stuff. Again boundaries put in place, with some give to get through the crises.

Time Limits were added. Just like you said Alva, time limits really helped. 6 weeks it was. I believe emergency guardianship granted but this did not reduce the stress, nor present instant solutions.

That MIL wandered too. She refused AL type places. Eventually, when better stabilised, a home trial was agreed by her care team. She walked at night in front of a train.

They did all they could.

I expect the OP's DH want to feel the same. To know he has done what he could. Then he will be ready to step back? Then the marriage may be resumed?

Of course not all couples would survive a traumatic event such as that. It can split or bring people together.
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There is a lot to this, apologies if I missed it...

But is MIL on the Autism Spectrum??

How many woman over middle age received a correct diagnosis?

The US animal behaviourist Temple Grandin (now aged 70s) was given many 'treatments', locked into psych wards & had multi of dx thrown at her. That she survived that to excel in her field & enlighten others about Autism is remarkable.

Label or not, condition, behaviour or whatever, if the OP don't want MIL in her life, but MIL is a big part of her husband's.. well. I can see the problem.

Must be like 3 people are in this marriage.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Sorry I phrased it wrong, she is not on the spectrum, my husband is though. Which why I feel his father said it is not uncommon for mothers of a child that is on the spectrum to be jealous of a spouse. You are 100% correct it does feel like having three people in a marriage. At times it feels as if we have a child, and I think that is a factor since we were planning on having children of our own then BAM we get dropped an adult child that does require a great deal of attention.

As mentioned she is not overly complex to deal with just time consuming.

You also bring up a good point why I think my husband is against just placement anywhere or medication as a first resort. Since he has gone through many issues due to his own issues with ASD. Even in the workplace he still finds himself facing issues, and a desire from health care providers to use medication on him to make him more “functional” though he is probably one of the most put together people I know.

His standard of care goes against what he can realistic provide by himself, but I guess he just does not see it. He wants her to be happy, and probably thinks he can make this work, since that is all he has ever done. Made things work out, he was dealt a shitty hand, but he has made it work for him. He does love to solve problems.
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I call BS on this post. Yet another poster saying limited education could be the cause of her difficult personality, that started out saying she wasn't difficult per se.

Someone that wishes harm on someone with a brain injury that is studying to be in special education. God have mercy if anyone that talks like this poster gets involved with vulnerable kids or any vulnerable person.

One parent and child on spectrum, now not true, phrased it wrong.

She is moving out because she can't take it, yet husband lives with mom and she lives alone in their home.

Oh, and married 10 years but doesn't know why the family doesn't want her around.

Husband has guardianship but not really only AIP. We ALL know what it takes to get guardianship and obviously this woman would never lose her autonomy based on the stories given here.

This is someone with nothing better to do.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
I have a lot going on, and yes I did phrase it wrong. Go back the context does fit with a the mother being jealous over a spouse of a child that is on the spectrum and or has special needs.

Also it is true that the MMSE is not a great bench mark if the person has limited education they can score lower then they are. Which is why is often not a great bench mark tool for people who are either very well educated or have limited education.

As for the guardianship I am apologize I do not know much about it. All I know this, due to the constant calls to the police made by from her family. A hearing around her capacity was put in place, and he has been dealing with that this entire time. Though to my knowledge you cannot revoke someone’s autonomy unless they are deemed understand to handle their own affairs, and if a doctor is unwilling to make such a call then you are forced down a different route.

Also I do not even know if they have POA, but to my knowledge that also does not go into effect unless it is invoked or written to be active at point of signing. All I know is he has hearings, but has still be able to get his mother home care through medicaid, and take care of her personal affairs. So either he has something that allows him to do so, or she is allowing him to do so, or maybe the hearing is for something else regarding his mother. I can only go based around the information I have available.

Thing is we would need her to lose her autonomy to take proper care of her. As I said I do not know much of details regarding that, all I know is when she was released from the hospital because he refused to pick her up, she was discharged and then soon after brought back to ER due to complaints from the neighbors. Only reason I know about this is because this happened when we were together on a little trip trying to fix our own issues.

This is a lot of process, I am not very knowledgeable in all of this so why not back off. Also it is very least to be with someone and not know why her family does not want her around for the years I have been with him I have only met his extended family once and that was for the wedding. Outside of that it always been just the three of them. Not every family has direct ties.

Truth be told sure if I choose to pay more attention to the situation I would have a better grasp as to what is going on. So what exactly is your problem?

Also idk about you but it is rough being in a home by yourself when you use to share it with someone, then all of sudden they are gone because of someone else. It hurts, how is that so hard to understand? Does everyone have to fit within your perfect little bubble?
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You need a psych consult. This is not the place for you to be posting. Be careful what you say about wishing people dead by poisoning and drowning. You may end up with police at your door. God Bless your husband. He deserves better.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2022
Amen to that.
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Helpless00,

What I am going say here is being said without rancor and with no malice whatsoever towards you.
You should seriously consider getting some psychiatric help for yourself. From what you have said here, you sound like a textbook narcissist. You also admit to fantasizing about your MIL dying a violent death and even wish it on her. That's a serious problem.
You speak about your husband and his mother being "on the spectrum". What's the explanation for your own behavior? What spectrum are you on? You're lamenting about your husband leaving you alone in the apartment that he totally pays for because he's at his mother's place. Maybe you should get a job and help out with expenses and that way your husband may be able to work less and give you more of his time.
Considering that you're at home all day long and not having to care for an elderly person with dementia, you could actually make yourself useful in finding some services and facility options for your MIL. Your husband would probably really appreciate it.
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I have been called out for guessing that posters were trolls, when in fact it was obviously correct. I do not think that OP is a troll. I think she went over the top in wishing death, destruction, torture and time in hell for her MIL. Well, based on my own past troubles, perhaps not over the top in wishing it, just a bit naive in writing it down. I wish her the best of luck in a solution to the problem for which she is not going to get prosecuted.
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lealonnie1 Jan 2022
You're right Margaret, this is not a troll post.
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I don't know of any state that does not allow for Medicaid to pay for nursing home placement. You may be best served by having your MIL admitted to a behavioral unit - basically a geriatric psych inpatient unit in a hospital - for evaluation and treatment. Then, ask case management and social services help with finding her placement in a long term care facility.
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Helpless you've disabled messages or I'd send this to you privately, it's just a follow-up thought, a trio of conditions that some families will go to insane lengths to hide from the outside world:

bipolar disorders
schizophrenic disorders
epilepsy (yes, seriously, still)

All of these conditions can be effectively managed, so effectively indeed that they are almost unnoticeable; but then things fall apart either every so often or eventually, through stress or crises (e.g. the death of your primary caregiver) or unrelated illness; and a further problem is that some of the medications do the brain no long-term favours either.

If you want to start the conversation afresh, the sentence I'd choose would be something like "is there anything I need to understand about Mother that you have not felt able to tell me about?"
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Consider that the son may not be privvy to such information, CM.
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Countrymouse Jan 2022
Good point.

But I think that would make it worse!
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It is good to be honest. I commend you for that and for leaving. Those are feelings so powerful that you are unable to hide them.
You do need therapy, as does your husband. The entire situation has become traumatic.
It may take you leaving to get your husband to realize that his choices aren't doing any good even though he comes from a good place. He has to accept that he cannot solve this problem.
And you should accept that you can't reason him out of this.
He makes a bad decision like not allowing the facility to sedate her when she is out of control. He reasons that out of love, there must be "better" way. You reason that his bad decision is made because he is a good person.
It won't do any good to explain to him that he makes decisions that prevent his mother from getting consequences. He will just continue to pursue "goodness" by "protecting" his mother.

And you need to get out of the situation. It's up to you to take care of yourself emotionally. Moving out is the responsible action.

Get out of there.

If you take prayer, I am offering it!
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Who else can help your husband with his mother? My husband is in the same position, but she has no one else. I take care of my father, but he had to be placed in a nursing home. I go see him wash his clothes it's not easy any way you go. I would not leave someone I love just because I can't take it. I think there is more to you wanted to leave then just this. Good luck
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