My husband (38) is from a European country, but we live in the US. His grandfather (82) has terrible dementia and bad health issues. He refuses to go into a nursing home. My husband has gone to help grandpa five separate times, usually two to three months at a time, over the last year and a half. When he is back in the US, he is physically but not emotionally present. He's always worrying about his grandpa, scheduling appts, talking to Grandpa's neighbors, etc. When I have gone to visit during the times my husband is gone, we fight a ton and he has literally told me, "you are not the priority." Grandpa is happy the way it is - he has someone (my husband, his grandson, technically step-grandson) to keep him company, make him food, clean up after him, etc. There is a lady who comes five times a week for three hours in the afternoon to help with cooking and bathing him (2 times a week), and there is also a cleaning lady who comes once a week. He has gotten a mental score of 7/30. He cannot buy groceries on his own, he refuses to even use a microwave, even if food is prepared. My husband left him alone this weekend to attempt to get grandpa to realize he cannot stay alone in the apt. He only ate bananas and chocolate bars, even though my husband had prepared him food. He has mega anxiety over going to doctor appts. He had to be somewhat sedated to get through an MRI (still didn't complete it, pushed the emergency button to get out)...that was the third attempt.
He can't afford 24h in home care. We found a great nursing home for him with a beautiful view that is very affordable. He refuses. We are renovating a house in husband's European country and grandpa thinks he is capable of living there with us. Doctor has said he can't do stairs. The house is built into a mountain and there are so many stairs. Living with us just isn't an option. No one in Grandpa's family wants to deal with him. They also all tell my husband he is doing too much. I tell him that. He says I don't support him. I can tell when he is stressed out before he can and I know that this situation is too much for him and he's burning out. I didn't sign up for this when we got married (almost been 11 years since we got married) - I feel like a military wife who is apart from spouse for ages. This situation is weighing on our marriage so much. I feel like I can't express myself because he just says I don't support him. I tell him that the only outcome for grandpa will be that he eventually dies. But the two of us actually could have a future together, if we nourish our relationship, which is clearly not happening.
How the heck do marriages survive taking care of aging people? Luckily we don't have kids, just two cats, but they are basically our kids. I don't want to leave them for months at a time, as they get very stressed out when we are both gone (came home after 3.5 weeks only to find that one cat had lost her chin fur and got feline acne and I've been trying to heal that for three months...the last thing I need is to go to visit husband and help grandpa and return to another round of cat acne). I totally get it, my husband is overwhelmed. Am I not allowed to be upset, though, and want to actually have a marriage at the end of this? How do people do this? I feel like I am pounding my head against a wall, going nowhere, and keep gaslighting myself into thinking that I must be a really weak person.
Look, your husband is a caring family man right? Probably part of his appeal. But he needs some clear info into his head;
1. Education on marriage
2. How to set life priorities
3. Education on Dementia
If he is open to councelling, marriage councelling, calling a dementia advice line, great. If not maybe an older male relative? Or does he have a faith? A faith leader he trusts?
Or he will learn the hard way. By becoming a single man.
A single man setting himself on fire to warm his Grandfather. Once he is all burnt up, he may return...
How long will you give him to burn & learn?
1 - family and friends that live near grandpa,
2 - members of faith community near grandpa,
3 - any volunteer services or community/government services that grandpa qualifies for,
4 - lastly, paid help.
If enough volunteers sign up for every day of the week to help, then your husband can lighten his load. If your husband is unwilling to get extra help, demand that he attend couple's therapy with you to sort out your issues with a qualified professional.
I am guessing that others in the family have walked away because they don't feel like they can contradict the elder in the family that says he does not want to be placed. It is a cultural thing that your husband is obviously struggling with. It's hard for me to say "stay strong because this won't last forever" because I am dealing with a mother in law who will be 102 next month. It could very well go on for a long time. You are also at that age where you're making the decision to have children or not.... The fact that grandpa is in another country is also a HUGE factor in this. Your husband is making life altering decisions right now without taking you and your relationship into consideration. To answer your question, yes, you have a right to be upset. Marriages end all the time when one person decides to make big decisions without taking their marriage partner into consideration. If it were me I would sit down with him and calmly ask "what is your plan? Because what you're doing is not healthy for you and it is not healthy for me and it is definitely not in the best interest of our marriage. This isn't just about you... I need to know where I fit into your plan so that I can decide if this is still the right path for me.
(and then, most likely, his parents.) You are in no way being selfish. At MOST, it would seem reasonable for him to go and visit for a couple of weeks every 3 months. It's not possible to do the kind of caretaking that this man needs via long distance. Your husband needs to make the choice to set up care for him, either in his home, or in a NH, and VISIT him on an occasional, regular schedule, or move in with him full time. Perhaps it's the loving thing to do for both of you, to let your husband go, if that's his choice. It can't be easy for him being torn between doing right by his Grandfather and doing right by you. That's probably why he gets so defensive. At any rate, you deserve to have someone who loves and prioritizes your relationship, and that doesn't appear to be happening, nor does it appear to be likely in the near future.
Now, please don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying the following to be hurtful to you. I'm saying it to be truthful to you so you'll wake up and smell the coffee as they say.
Grandfather's care needs probably isn't the only reason your husband takes off to another country without you every few months and stays for a month or more. He probably has another woman. He may even have a whole other life in the other country with the "other" woman. If you have joint bank accounts and credit card accounts together, go over the statements and see what he's spending or withdrawing. Follow the money and the truth will come out.
Can I ask you a few questions that you should really be asking yourself?
How does your husband hold down a job taking this much time off (months at a time) for the last 11 years? Where does his money come from? He claims he has to leave for long periods of time to take care of his grandfather with advanced dementia. Who takes care of grandfather when your husband isn't there? Where is your husband's parent who the grandfather is an actual father to? Why aren't they taking care of him? Or their siblings if they have them?
Sister, you should talk to a divorce attorney today for a consultation to talk and get some advice. You need to protect yourself so your husband can't clean out the bank accounts then just stay in his native country. Please talk to a lawyer, just to talk.
I was always very clear that I was not taking on the responsibility of his sister's care when his parents were gone, and his parents needed to figure it out. But they never did. And he felt he had to honor his parents wishes to take care of her after his mother died.
The part time arrangement wasn't working and we came close to divorcing after 45 years of marriage. Even though I had my daughter and family nearby, I was lonely living in a new area not knowing anyone. But I worked full time and I managed to build a life. I found some really wonderful friends.
My husband visited for 3-4 weeks at a time every 6-8 weeks or so. It was very hard time for me. I missed him when he left and I was angry and resentful that I was not his priority. It was clear his sister was.
I was angry (and still am) that his parents felt they had a right to exploit me and their other daughter in law expecting us to take care of their daughters needs for the rest of her life (or mine) and that they felt entitled to ruin my marriage. Other DIL got sucked into doing it because her husband refused consider any other options for her care aside from living with family. I dug my heels in and refused to have her live with us.
Eventually things changed when BIL moved his family and took sister with them because they had to sell the family home and she lived downstairs and had nowhere else to go. It is not a good situation, now they demand that we either take her part of the year or pay them money to supplement her care. I chose that we pay the money. Some people receive an inheritance when family members die that make their lives better. I instead have a reverse inheritance. I pay this family to just not be in my life anymore.
My husband finally chose to prioritize his marriage over his sister. We live full time together now. But if my husband ever has a change of heart, he can move to be near these people. I refuse to ever see any one of them again. The situation that arose over this woman's care destroyed any family ties that are left. There are only hard feelings. I refuse to see them ever again.
I am not sure how I ever got through this.
We survived but only barely. DH literately ended up choosing to prioritize me over being there for his own widowed mother. The hard decisions of GS to get her into MC and him drawing the boundary for our marriage being a priority actually saved it. If it wasn't a priority, what is there to stay together for?
What is your husband thinking? Maybe it is time to get real and draw the line as you see it.
"Am I not allowed to be upset,..."
Yes, yes you are!
This seems like a drastic step, but you shouldn’t waste years of your life with this husband when there are a lot of guys who would appreciate you and build a life together.
Crowded House
Somewhere deep inside
Something's got a hold on you
And it's pushing me aside
See it stretch on forever
[CHORUS]
And I know I'm right
For the first time in my life
That's why I tell you
You'd better be home soon
Stripping back the coats
Of lies and deception
Back to nothingness
Like a week in the desert
[CHORUS]
So don't say no
Don't say nothing's wrong
'Cause when you get back home
Maybe I'll be gone, oh
It would cause me pain
If we were to end it
But I could start again
You can depend on it
[CHORUS]
Don’t get caught with this as a joint liability.
You are not being supportive. Own that.
"I do not support this unsustainable plan."
Can you live in a marriage in which you're NOT the number one priority? Do you plan to have children?
I mean, yeah, I don't support this unsustainable plan at all. It's been over a year and a half of him going back and forth, trying to help his grandfather, but getting nowhere. What sane person would support that?
I don't expect to always be priority number one (in fact I think everyone should make themselves priority number one, then let spouse, work, family, etc fall in line where they may). But when I haven't felt prioritized for quite some time and have had him so bluntly tell me I'm not the priority, it's like, woah time out what is happening here?
Yes, of course I don't know what the therapist said, just what he told me, as I wasn't in the session. It's very frustrating for me to be told I'm not being supportive, yet I definitely am making him the priority these days and am helping him navigate this situation, listen to him vent, give him advice to just get away and take care of himself, etc. I guess I don't have to support the unsustainable situation, but can support my husband (which I have absolutely been doing, btw).
And your husband has made it more than clear to you that you will never be his number one priority, and that his grandfather is. And when he dies there will be someone or something else that will be.
You must believe your husband when he tells you that "you are not the priority." I can only guess that you never have been and that is really sad.
And you say that even though meals are prepared for his grandfather and all he needs to do is microwave them lets me know that your husband and perhaps even you don't realize the extent of the grandfathers dementia, as he no longer knows how to use a microwave, simple as it is for the rest of us.
That was one of many signs of dementia with my late husband when he no longer could figure out how to use the microwave.
Grandpa needs to placed. You know that and I know that. However your husband(even though he knows it deep down too)will continue to prop up his grandfather until either your husband has a massive heart attack or stroke from the stress or grandpa dies.
40% of caregivers caring for someone with dementia will die before the one they're caring for from stress related issues.
I don't like to recommend divorce lightly, but I honestly don't see this getting any better. So you will have to decide if you can live the rest of your life with a man who will never put you first. And that makes my heart break for you, just typing the previous sentence out. I know that I could never tolerate that.
I hope you're wise enough and strong enough to make the right decision.
The frustrating thing is that where grandpa is located, there was a law passed a few years ago that made it impossible to force someone into a nursing home if they don't want to. My husband has taken him to several doctors and a few docs have even come to his apartment. They all say that he can't be forced and that unfortunately, you just have to wait for him to have an accident.
He did have an accident in November, literally 2 weeks after we came back. He fell and couldn't get up, so was yelling (this was at midnight), so his downstairs neighbor heard him and called the fire dept. They went through neighbor's apt with their ladder and up to grandpa's apt, broke a window, hauled him to the ER. He hadn't broken anything and basically they called the gal who comes five days a week, so she went to get him out of the ER and take him home. (My husband had just had a small surgery a couple days before this, which required a few follow-up appts - if he hadn't had this surgery, he would have been on the next flight back.)
And thank you for putting it so clearly and simply - that marriages survive when partners make each other their priority. I'm not going to go over there and put myself in a situation where I know I'm not prioritized. Why would I do that?! I have a cozy apartment with two beautiful felines who prioritize me!!!
Thank you again. :D
We have had posters in your situation before, where DH’s views don’t make a lot of sense for a workable marriage in the USA. What and where is his income from? Does he see you as just a ‘support system’? What does he think about your rights in this? Does he really want to live with you in the USA, or is he torn about it – and quite happy to spend months in his “home country” with the rest of his family? We had one long thread a while ago where it actually seemed quite likely that DH had a second partner back at the ‘home country’, and we got as far as suggesting that the poster hired a detective to check! Your DH spends a little less time there, but he is also ‘living’ on the phone with GP and GP’s issues.
I’d suggest that you check on DH’s longer term intentions, and how they fit with your expectations. Are you OK about going back to live there in this house that is being renovated? If that’s not what you want, why is it going ahead (and I know just how much effort it takes to renovate a house, let alone in another country). Does DH intend to care for his parents in due course? And in which country? And is that what you expect?
You “didn't sign up for this when we got married”, and at present it’s just about care for GP. You are in a position now to take a look at the next 30 years, and decide if it’s the future you want. You think that “the two of us actually could have a future together, if we nourish our relationship”. If it’s “clearly not happening” now and isn’t likely in the future, you are better off bringing the issue to a head sooner rather than later.
Grandpa's stepdaughter's husband doesn't want anything to do with him and they never got along. Stepdaughter and her husband have a son, so my husband's half-brother, and he doesn't want to be involved. These three all live relatively far away from grandpa. Grandpa's sister wants nothing to do with him, either.
My husband isn't really talking too much with his mother (there is a lot of family drama), so as much as I would like to reach out and vent to her, I know it's probably better to not. The thing with his family is that you never know their true colors and we don't have a ton of trust for them. There have been so many instances in the past that they have been very two-faced and we just can't count on them.
Thank you again!
No, my husband has already told his parents to get their shit together and that he is not doing this again for them. I think his father was actually trying to get back in husband's good graces so that he could come live with us at the renovated house in his elder years. I have told my husband that I will not care for any of his parents and that I absolutely will leave.
I am fine with moving to this country and into the renovated house. Renovating is awful and it's exceptionally difficult trying to do from the US, but I feel like we kind of are making headway on that. We both are dual citizens and have been talking about moving back to his home country for years. I feel like I tend to do a bit better outside of the US anyway. I've always felt a bit like a weirdo here, if that makes sense.
I'm not overly concerned about my husband having a second family there. Oh goodness, that's the last thing I would need added onto this mess!
You are strong--it takes strength like we cannot fathom to deal with the CG of difficult elders.
My DH is currently VERY involved with his mother's care, they moved her to an ALF and she is doing terribly. They are talking about moving her to the Memory Care area of the facility. That's probably worse. He spends more time with he now than he did when she was in home Hospice. He says he will spend every single day with her for a few hours.
All 3 sibs spend too much time there with her. She doesn't KNOW WHO THEY ARE--yet they go daily and do the CG. Why the heck they put her in a NH when they're still so very enmeshed in her daily needs? It's making me crazy.
And this has gone on for a year+.
Yesterday Dh told me that his first priority is his mother (same as your DH) and even when he is home, he is fielding phone calls and texts between his sibs and the ALF. I am getting exactly nothing from him.
I KNOW I am not a priority with him. It's hurtful on a daily basis.
I have no advice. I am riding this out, b/c we have been married forever and I know his mother won't live forever (tho it feels like it!). After she goes, I am not giving him a choice: marriage counseling. Period.
When you get hip deep in caring for another person, you lose focus of your 'real life'. Sadly, this is a complete deal breaker for a lot of people.
I have a LOT of outside activities and interests and I go to kids and grandkids for the love that I am not getting from my DH (and won't until his mom dies.) I would suggest therapy for you, maybe he'd go with you, but that's doubtful.
I try to talk to DH but he shuts =me down, hard. Knowing he's not being very kind to me--he feels guilty, but all his emotions get channeled into anger. (That's very common among men, Sorry, guys, it's just true,)
I can only hope and pray for you to be able to see hope in the future. I honestly am just getting by day to day with the hope that MIL will not last much longer--and I pray a LOT.
Listen to Alva--she has a LOT of great advice!!
Yes, I feel like DH feels like he needs to prove something, to show that he is this great person and is the one who cared for grandpa when no one else would. And I get it, no one wants to see their parent/grandparent/spouse end up like this, but it's like, come on, you also have to put on your oxygen mask first.
I completely understand where you are coming from with your MIL. I have asked friends and my therapist if it's bad that I just look forward to the day he is gone. My therapist asked me if I had a magic wand, what would I wish for - that grandpa would just pass. He's not grandpa anymore. He's a ghost. The grandpa we loved is gone, but he doesn't have to take us down with him! We actually have a future!!! But we have to be each other's priority!!!
I recently started running again (used to run a ton in high school and college, even did a marathon and half marathon) and I swear it's the only thing keeping me relatively sane. I just can't believe how you could tell your spouse so bluntly, hey you aren't my priority. Like whaaaaat the f***?!?!
Thank you again!
There is a pretty easy fix here, the way I see it. Hubby grows a spine, saves his marriage and places step-grandpa, or he moves in with him full time and devotes his entire life to caring for the man, and then his parents later on, and divorces you. Pays you for your half of the home that's being renovated in his country also, of course. He can't keep one half of a foot in your home and 1-1/2 feet in grandpa's home because guess what? Both of you lose out.
Best of luck getting through to a man who doesn't 'get it'. This marriage will not only cause your cats to get acne, but YOU to get ulcers!
I just asked him if he has told his grandfather how difficult it is for us to be apart for so long. Yes, he has asked grandpa that, but then he said that grandpa isn't grandpa anymore and it's like asking a toddler to feel bad.
I have told him that this is the last time I will do this. He is scheduled to come home towards the end of March (so this trip is scheduled to be three months...he left on Christmas Eve). I want to be with someone who wants to be with me! I know my worth and also have good friends who remind me of it! I know he isn't seeing clearly - you can't see the forest for the trees. I also know that his grandparents were more like parents to him (his parents are real pieces of work), so I think grandpa feels more like a father to him.
I have told him that he can stay there until the day grandpa dies, but I won't be around. His mind is gone, but physically I think he's maybe kind of ok? This is not a marriage!!!
Again, thank you! I had never heard of this site before and appreciate the responses I've gotten so quickly!!!
Caregiving is horribly stressful. Your husband needs to get some help compartmentalizing this, he needs it as much if not more , for himself with or without your marriage. And maybe if he gets help , then you can show him more love and understanding
We are literally waiting for grandpa to hurt himself, as it's not possible in this country to force someone into a nursing home against their will. Grandpa speaks so negatively about people in a nursing home, that they are all just drooling over themselves and can't walk - um, grandpa, you poop and pee your pants and you can't even use a microwave or walk more than two inches at a time, let's not be judgmental...
Basically the options now: get him to somehow go to a nursing home, hire in-home care (not 24h a day cuz it's too expensive and his rent is 3200 euros a month, so no way to pay for everything), my husband stays (this isn't an option), or abandon him (and in this case, a very nosy neighbor who is way too involved in this situation has already said that he will call social services or whoever you call to report elder abuse and that he will say my husband has abandoned him).
It's like when I say, hey our marriage is really not doing well right now, he can't just say, yeah hey this is really hard on both of us, we need to work on this. He just gets so defensive, like what am I supposed to do about it, nobody is taking care of him, I have to take care of him?! I totally understand the overwhelm. Why is it so hard to just say, "hey babe, I'm sorry that I haven't been there for you, I'm working to get this situation resolved so that he is safe and taken care of and so I can get my life back, let's work on improving our relationship"? He actually just started seeing a therapist, after I told him for years how he needed to, and she actually told him that I'm not supporting him enough!!! (She actually works in the same office as my therapist, so my next session is gonna be real fun...). I asked him if I should just lie to his face and tell him how this is all so wonderful? He said yes. His therapist said that grandpa is part of his identity and that it's normal to want to take care of him until the end.
UGH.
I would guess that none of this was discussed before marriage. So now here it is on the plate. This is more a marital problem than an elder care problem.
I am assuming you tried to come to some compromise together and that has not worked, which would not surprise me. You ultimately cannot change others. Your husband will likely continue in this care and in this manner for grandparents and parents. Your choice is to "live with it" or to begin a new life. I, too, and thankful you don't have children.
You and hubby can likely remain close friends, but this is the marriage you got; while counseling might help negotiate a compromise it's unlikely EITHER of you will be happier in the marriage because of it. Sorry. But these are sometimes the facts. I wish you both luck.
We discussed a lot of stuff before marriage, but not elder care. It was more like us agreeing on how we didn't want kids, religious and political stuff, stuff about us, not about caring for elders. Plus I just kind of assumed that his mother (so step-daughter of grandpa) would step up and help out. (Her mother, so my husband's grandma, died about three weeks after we moved back to the US.). It's been almost 11 years since grandma has died and husband's mother has slowly decided she hates grandpa and only now talks shit about him. (I do actually really love the grandpa - he was the only one in the family who ever welcomed and accepted me, besides my husband. This family is a piece of work...)
I feel like there isn't a lot of compromise in the situation. Husband basically says, "Ok I have to go back to take care of him, we need to get my flights organized, etc., and if you want to come, you can, but just know that I will still have to work and take care of him, so won't have much time for you." (Husband works remotely for a US company, so this is why he also is able to be gone for such long chunks of time.) It's always basically like, ok I have to go, end of discussion, you can come if you want and if our marriage breaks up because you didn't come, it's on you.
I just don't want to go. I went there about a year ago to figure out house stuff and I said that after we were back at grandpa's house, I'd like to spend some quality time with him before I headed back to the US (he was staying for 6 more weeks). He freaked out and said I wasn't the priority. I literally just wanted to go for like a nice walk for a couple hours - I wasn't asking for some extravagant date. I went again in May, that was ok. Was supposed to go at the end of Sept, but got Covid real bad, so had to push things back. Husband was so rude to me and accused me of growing distant and not wanting to do things with him - like, no I don't want to go swimming in the sea in October after having Covid and my immune system being weak!
He also now has started saying that this is what it is to be in an international marriage, that I will eventually have to go back and forth to take care of my parents. I've already talked quite thoroughly to my mom about her eventually moving to be with us and telling both of my parents to figure out their stuff cuz we aren't doing a repeat of this. Ugh, I feel like I don't even make any coherent sense anymore!!! Thank you again for your support.