How do I go about getting my husband to understand the need to place his mother?

Your husband is in denial. You will never get through to him by pointing out that the current situation is unsustainable. He thinks that it has to be, so he's risking everything else in his life in order to be a good son.

I wonder if the approach you can take is to ask him if his mother is a good parent. His immediate response will be, "Yes, of course!" Then...

Ask him whether he would expect your children to lose themselves in taking care of either of you when you get old.

Ask him if he would want them to risk bankrupting themselves to take care of you.

Ask him if he would want them to neglect your future grandchildren in favour of taking care of either of you.

Ask him if he would want them to risk their marriage by asking more of their partners in taking care of either of you and risk their partners getting burnout in the process.

Ask him if he thinks that's what his mum really wants for him. Or what she wanted of him 20/30 years ago.

If not, then she's clearly no longer able to think rationally on the subject.

Would he want his children to lose good years of their lives in taking on more caregiving duties than is sustainable because he could no longer think rationally and would only behave appropriately when he got what he wanted?

Finally, ask him how you will both be able to provide for your old age if you spend all your money on his mum.

How will you be able to help your children, if all the money is spent on Grandma?

You need to be present with the doctors next time and find out what they actually say, not your husband's interpretation of it. And you need to point out that you cannot keep up this level of care. You are burnt out and you are not rich.

You need to step back and be firm with your husband. Either that, or your relationship could be ruined.

Make a time for you and your spouse to have a discussion about this difficult loved one. Have paper and pens/pencils and all information about her "after hospital care options" available. I suggest using a pros and cons method to list what situation she needs and the resources available. Make sure you emphasize that she needs round the clock care. Remind your spouse that you are not able to care for her in your home - since you have a family to care for and a job. Remind your spouse that her mental health issues will create stress for every member in the family if you do take her in. Give each of you ample time to express emotions and to be supportive of each other.

You can do this!

I agree with Fluffy that you need to go to the medical appointments and hear for yourself what is being said. My father had to be medicated to reduce his anxiety. It worked wonders for him in the nursing home. He was able to be social again and participate in the activities.

The only thing that is going to break through his feelings of guilt and honor is for you to let him do the caregiving. He will get over his hesitation real fast. You have to completely bow out. Tell him your offer to do the caregiving was only temporary until he had a plan in place. The plan was never for you to do it indefinitely. Take your child on a weekend trip to visit your family. Leave him to take care of her while you're away. He will understand.

Take all of her financial information to an Elder Lawyer and ask for assistance applying for Medicaid. They will tell you exactly what to do and how to do it. Things may need to be sold, money placed in a trust for her care, etc... Find a memory care facility close to your home, so your husband can visit her as often as he likes.

I read your heartbreaking story and I truly believe you are completely burnt out. You said that your MIL “does not qualify for much via Medicaid yet”. I don’t know the reason why she’s not qualified, but you should speak to an elder law attorney who is very versed in how the Medicaid program works and perhaps he/she will help you and your husband to get your MIL qualified for Medicaid benefits and this will help with the financial burden that you’re under with her.

Protect your child, protect YOUR health (physical and mental), have a doctor/clergyperson/social worker speak with your husband to alleviate his sense of guilt over his mother's situation. There are agencies that can help navigate these situations; and not all facilities are 'horror stories': you just have to do your homework, and stay on top of the facility's adherence to caregiving laws. Good luck to all; sounds like your MIL's mental state is deteriorating, which will only get worse and tear your entire family down. Get her the professional help she needs so your remaining family can be at peace knowing she is OK and you can stabilize your home.

How you get your husband to understand the need to place his mother is by stepping out of the equation. He will soon learn how much propping up it takes to keep his mom "independent ".

If you continue to bear a large part of the hands on propping up he will never see or realize how much she requires to be safe and cared for.

Tough situation for everyone involved. Best of luck finding a way forward.

This is an emotional issue for your husband. Perhaps he feels like a failure as a son if he places her. Perhaps she has had him promise never to place her. Do yourself a favor and read through all the Mother’s Day cards in local card shop. Full of guilt provoking messages! He needs to understand that parents take care of their children and their adult children grown up take care of their children and so on. Taking care of one’s parents isn’t an obligation but it can be a gift if it isn’t as difficult as this seems to be in your case. Help your husband deal with his guilt. It’s in the culture that mothers are so wonderful that you owe them-no, not true.

Helpneeded8972: You should never use your own financials on your MIL's care.

I’ll try to be succinct here. I had to place my brother in a nursing home when he had brain cancer. There are good nursing homes. I found a 5 star rated one on the Medicare website under nursing home comparison. He had Medicaid. His care there was paid for by his Social Security minus $60 for personal spending. Medicaid paid the rest. It will differ by state. Some of the staff cried when he died. Check with an elder law attorney if you have questions about Medicaid spend downs to determine MIL eligibility. It will be easier than contacting Medicaid.

Caregiving is one of the hardest things anyone can do. Promises can be made to avoid nursing homes but circumstances change to where they can’t be honored. Start creating a life for ourself—new job, vacation, whatever. You’ll restore your brain and mental health, but of course caregiving will still be in the your in mind, but not front and center. Your husband will figure out what you go through. Boundaries!!

A thought occured to me, at end of the evening while reading through all the responses to your terrible dilemma. HelpNeeded, Bless you, but it occured to me to ask: Have you been bodily present (part of the discussion) when the Medical Team of your MIL actually suggests to your husband that she need not be medicated since she is OK on a "one to one" situation? I guess I am wondering if that is truly the way the Med team verbalizes it (which I am now thinking sounds just about unbelieavable)? If you have personally heard these discussions, then: I will believe it. If these discussions ("pie in the sky", financially impossible) have only been reported to you by your husband: Then I think you should be physically present for the next Med Team assessment. Your husband might truly be misinterpreting a good bit of what the Med Team is saying. He might be the one whose ears are hearing, "Don't medicate her". I am simply suggesting that if you have not been present for the verbal assessment of the Medicos: I suggest that you attend also. I realize that I have never (in 40 yrs. of counseling experience) ever heard of a Med Team uttering the kind of summations that your husband then relays to you...

Stop helping and tell your husband no marital funds will be used to support her. He needs to be forced to make a decision. Right now he doesn’t have to because you are propping everyone up.

Your husband is using the fact that you stepped up to help, now he doesn't have to make many hard decisions or put in the work to care for his mother that he brought into the home.

Don't you understand the amount of neglect and abuse that is happening in these facilities right now.

The drugs you are pushing on her may actually be what is causing a lot of the problems.

Please look into additional home-care for her before going to such extremes to dump her somewhere. Listen to your husband as well, do not be so cruel!

A few years ago my friend’s mother said she was tired and ready to shut herself down.  

Her mother decided not to accept food anymore. Her doctor checked on her. 

After days had passed she asked her daughter “I’m I dead yet”? 

Her mother was determined to shut herself down. She was successful.

I would advise you hire an elder care consultant. Having a third party who is very familiar with the dementia issues assess your loved one and provide input, is super helpful. It takes the personal relationships out of the situation. They can give you outside input on how to keep her safe, how to prepare for the next phase, etc. We found it very helpful both in getting Dad to accept the reality of the situation with his very ill wife, but also family members who 'didn't think she was that bad."

Dear Helpneeded,

You cannot fix this problem. Have you tried contacting the Alzheimers Association? They have a lot of free information and they have a 24 hour hotline to call with questions. Have you spoken to APS? I found them to be pretty unhelpful (in upstate NY) but different states have different agencies and levels of help.

I agree with everyone here, I would not take her into your home. Especially if you have children. That's a lot of stress.

You can't help anyone else out when you are overwhelmed. I had to let the hospital place my dad because my Mom (who has dementia) refused to enter a senior community and they lived alone. She was wandering, the neighbors were complaining, she was falling, she could have gotten lost in the winter outside. I would try to talk with APS and her doctors to get your DH to understand it is not just about what your MIL wants. It really comes down to "is she safe".

Keep asking questions. This is a great website. People care. If you have money, hire an elder attorney. If not utilize Alzheimers Assoc. or AFA. Use Adult Protective Services (APS), use her doctors. You need to get your husband to understand, it is hard and it will get harder if you do not get help. Outside caregivers? Is that an option?

Please give us an update. Sending good wishes your way.

This too shall pass......sometimes it just takes a lot of effort.

Good. I’m glad you recognize you have hit your done point. Stop helping, disengage and don’t be so reliable and competent.

I'm sorry for you. The only thing I can suggest is to try and get in-home care givers to help you with the heavy load. If DH or MIL doesn't want to pay for it, then stop being the nice guy, draw up a contract and tell them what you will and will not do, then stick to the contract. In other words, draw your boundaries and make sure that the contract can be changed every 3 months.

....and go to couple's counselling. Find a caregiver for you MIL while you go to counselling, not a neighbor, not a church friend, a paid caregiver. My reasoning is: 1) start the transition to paid caregiving 2) find out the ins and outs of paid caregiving.

When my Mom was doing at-home care with dementia, she was quite difficult for most care givers. However, the ones that tolerated and anticipated her antics the best, were the nurses who worked in the dementia portion of the hospital. I asked them how they could do that job, day in and day out. They all universally said 1) it is only for 8 hours a day, and then they are away from it 2) there were many people to share the load, therefore, the burden to give care was not entirely on them 3) they get paid for it and know they can walk away if it affects their health.

As you are finding, caregiving for a relative in your house or even their house is not similar to being a caregiver or nurse at a MC unit. You DO NOT have a variety of trained professionals to help you and there is no begin and end. Walking away is difficult due to the emotional ties.

So start with the first: 1) draw up a contract as to what you are willing to do and what you are not, taking into account that you DO have a child to also care for. 2) Hire in-home help 3) seek couple's counselling or personal counselling.

Also, as a word of caution, do not let your experience on the dementia ward affect your tolerance and expectations and future care of your MIL. I suspect you have your hands full with caring for your child, and your MIL is just adding to an already full cup.

Try to make a fruit smoothie from the sour fruits that life is handing you.

Helpneeded, there is no "one to one" in any world. I formerly heard this from parents of children in need of special services: "He would do fine if he had a "one to one" academic helper. There is no "one to one" help except for someone of the wealth of Elon Musk or Warren Buffet. Your husband "means well' but good intentions pretty much pave the road to Hell. This is situation of "counseling needed for husband", presenting problems are 1) will not tolerate idea of medication to improve Mom's countenance, 2) feels a difficult elder is entitled to one to one personal assistance, and 3) feels OK with decimating his family's finances (including a child) and ruining his marriage by failing to listen to his spouse who has "health risks" (stroke or heart attack) due to his inability (or unwillingness?) to function in what I would call Reality. You love your husband dearly but he is not willing to face reality. Speak with an attorney about "separating finances" before filing for divorce.

Honestly? You probably can't.

I talked myself blue in the face trying to get my DH to see how bad his mom's QOL was and how she would probably flourish in a group setting. He never believed me and it became a real issue between us. He thought I was cruel and heartless. I thought he and his sibs were trying to support an un-supportable situation.

Finally, OB crashed, hard, and said he would no longer be hands on with MIL. From there it was only 2 weeks and she was moved to an ALF.

And she's FINE.

DH said the other night that they should have done this 5 years ago. I said "So, maybe I was right?" VERY begrudgingly, he said "Yeah, kind of, I guess."

Bottom line, she's safer and better cared for and hopefully she will not be awful about her new living arrangements.

And yes, my DH is going through some horrible guilt pains. when the guilt should be that he neglected ME through all of this and our marriage has suffered some real blows.

Not all nursing homes with memory care is what you are describing. My BIL is in one and he gets more activity than being at his apartment. They take good care of him.

You need to STOP ENABLING! Step back and let your husband do all that you do and see what comes from it. If you have to tell him you are sick and need to go lie down do it everytime they need you.

When he was in his own apartment we had ring cameras in two rooms there to watch him. They can be talked to over the camera. When he ended up in a nursing home he fell outside laid on the ground for 30 minutes until someone found him. If he didn't fall he would be still in his apartment.

As for Medicaid start the paperwork NOW. I don't know where you are but I did the medicaid paperwork for my BIL had to spend down his finances to get him into the nursing home. He has what Medicaid allows to have in his account.

And as far as them being there if you do an ER drop they will get her into a place. They will probably put her on meds that work. My BIL is on meds that calm him down. The doctor associated with the nursing home put him on them.

Prayers that you take care of yourself because if you don't where will your husband be and you.

It’s so hard on all!! We had to sell our family home this month as it’s $10k easy. Medicare runs out and he had too many assets for Medicaid. Last parent. And we have to supply all the extras. I’m not an expert. Most of us learn from others that are going through it. But i’ve learned that you’ve got to ask for help and not try and do it all yourself or it will make you crazy too. If she’s using Medicaid, could she have a caregiver come into the home I’m not exactly sure of your circumstances, but don’t give up keep exploring things. Keep asking questions. Im just sending you a hug and hopefully others may have some recommendations for you that are better than mine.

I have a couple of reactions to your issues:

1) What’s with this ‘medical team’? How many, what qualifications, and what practical experience? You are blaming a lot of this on what the ‘medical team’ is telling DH. Hire a new doctor! Object strongly to their faces about their lack of reality! Blow up in their faces! Tell them to keep their mouths shut unless they are willing to come and provide a week’s REAL help. You don’t have to be their victim, forget about ‘politeness’. Call in APS and get a second opinion from them – after making it clear that you are at breaking point.

2) “I know if I divorce him that will break him”. M’s behavior will break him, ignoring these unrealistic medicos is unacceptable, going along these lines will ruin you both financially …. The poor bloke is in for a hard time, whatever choices he makes, isn’t he? Time for you to make sensible decisions? Or does “I love and care for him too much to let him go down this path alone” mean that you are determined to share the hard time?

3) MIL “does not want to be a burden but would not want to go into a nursing home. She would rather die before that”. Funny thing is that they usually have the means to die, but they actually choose NOT. It’s all just words to put on pressure and guilt.

4) The current situation is only working because of your support, as well as DH’s care work. DH “does not feel someone should have to be put in danger to get help”. In fact someone may need to ‘in danger’ before they accept help. They are responsible for the dangers, which come from their own needs and mindset, not from artificial dangers ‘put’ there by you. Being stubborn gives them their ‘best option’. You can withdraw your help. This will make DH change what he does to support MIL, and when he changes MIL may find that it is no longer her best option.

5) You don’t want to divorce, but there are other ways to tip the balance on what’s happening. Take a holiday, go away for a month, visit the old home, find an ‘oldies’ tour to visit somewhere you have always wanted to see. You are ALLOWED to do this. You don’t need permission from MIL or from DH. It’s called living your own life. Then you can find out how things change, without any irreversible marriage problems. If you think it’s too expensive, just trust me – divorce is a lot more expensive!

You have options that you can take yourself. Don’t think that you are stuck, with no options. It’s not true – any more than the argument that these care arrangements can’t change.
Yours, Margaret

I felt pressure from family members to provide care. To enable a LO to stay home.

The LO had long lost sight of the big picture. Went about their day & concluded they lived alone therefore were independant.

#1 Untruth : Independant.
The Social Worker re-phrased this as "Living alone, DEPENDANTLY".

I sought much advice.
I was told to have HONEST discusions to what I could/would do going forward.
To STEP BACK..
To expect PUSH BACK.
To HOLD my position firm.

To follow up my WORDS of NO with ACTIONS.

The best way was to BE BUSY.

A good sensible Councillor/Coach advised people in this position to get a job. A part-time.job, a volunteer job at their children's school, start a study course, anything. Just no longer be available. Quit.

I had to. I had to actually quit & leave it all on others for them to SEE the FULL level of dependance.

HelpNeeded, I think you may need to consider this too.

Be honest & clear. Tell your DH:
I will not continue to prop this up.
I am starting a new job/study/something & will no longer be available.

If your Husband talks of reducing his paid work hours or funding aides to replace you he will need marriage councelling. To see how his actions will financially DAMAGE his own family unit.

I DO very much understand not wanting to leave MIL unsupervised & in an unsafe way. (No-one would suggest leaving her to burn the home down or fall & suffer a head wound). So he needs to ADD what safety measures he can; eg
Falls alarm
Easy heat meals (no cooking)
Food & medicones delivered.
Regular aid visits (MIL pays).

Could MIL be OK with that?

If not, he needs to get a NEW plan.

Withdrawing your assistance will force him to hurry up with that new plan.

Tough love.

As you are facing burnout and hubby is delayed. It is time to put all the burden on him. The ideal if great care mindset will have to be replaced with good enough.

"Sadly, his mom was the type that would say never put me in a home, kill me before doing so...that being said 100% she is the type that does not want to be a burden but would not want to go into a nursing home. She would rather die before that."

My mother has said you can shoot me first if you are going to put me in a nursing home. Or you can push me off a bridge. At the same time she says she doesn't want to be a burden. What a stinking heap of emotional blackmail! I've heard so many people here say their LO's said the same.

What are we supposed to do with this? It's a lose/ lose. We have no choice but to be the "bad guy" and be the person who places our LO. And then suffer their sense of betrayal and wrath for the rest of their lives...After we have given so much time, energy, emotional and mental anguish, and money to do everything we could for them. I'm getting so very angry about this, both for myself and for everyone else who posts the same on here.

There is no ideal on Medicaid.
I will be so honest as to say with the mental issues and medications there is no ideal in even the most wonderful memory care with all the financial assets in the world, and it is memory care she needs or a nursing home and medication, as she cannot be cared for easily and as you have seen as regards Medicaid, EVERY PLACE out there cherry picks patients.

You MIL has needs that you cannot fulfill and needs that no one ELSE wants to fulfill. Period. End of sentence. And the facts.
It doesn't get worse than this, and from my own view over time, you pegged it exactly. I am also a retired RN. I think we both know that the "hospital method" as you call it, and what we here admit is the ER DUMP is the only way. And no, the placement won't be pretty and may not even be in your area.

It is time for an honest sit down with hubby. It is time that the marital disagreement is addressed. This is his Mom. I understand that. Now I need you to tell me that he is on board with at LEAST 50% of the care of her and of the rest of the household. If you can tell me that, I won't be as tough on him as I would like to.

The truth is that I would be telling any husband of mine that I understand I stepped into this myself, and that it was likely the biggest mistake I ever made, that I should have known better as an RN. But that I cannot go on either mentally or physically, and that it is literally destroying me. I am going to admit right off that MIL is a placement problem. And that of course doctors don't want her placed as it is basically losing a patient who will likely have to be in and out of neuro-psyc rehabs for medication titration for the rest of her life, and who will likely be over medicated to non responsiveness of undermedicated so that she is shown the exit of any facility out there. I would tell that husband that in the most ideal of circumstances (say she has lots of money) her mental situation is going to make placement almost impossible.
AFTER I said ALL OF THAT I would say that I know this is painful, that not everything can be fixed, that we didn't create her circumstance and cannot fix it, but that I personally can no longer endure it.
I would tell husband he has a few days to think on this but that it has come down to you or her. That if she stays you will have to leave. You will see an attorney for legal separation and try to find a nearby small efficiency room or apartment, that you will attempt to help with some things such as shopping and etc., that you love him, but that you cannot go on.

I don't see another way.
I know you don't either and that's why you are here.
Know that you are not alone.
I am so dreadfully sorry. I just finished a memoir by a daughter whose mother, even IN CARE lived way way too long. Called Requiem for my Mother her own very talented musician mother was reduced to being someone her family longed to see go to her peace. This is what so many of us are reduced to. People praying that our elders can pass.

Here's how you get your husband to understand that his mother has to be put into memory care.

You tell him plainly that either she goes into a "home" or he can find a new one because you'll take the current one in the divorce settlement. Talk to a divorce lawyer for a free consultation just for information.

You can do an 'ER Dump' and ask for the Social Admit at the hospital without him. You are forced to take care of her and it is your right to refuse to. When she's in the ER, explain to the social worker you speak to what your situation is at home with your husband too. They'll help you.

Now as for your husband. He can't "handle" her asking to go home?
Sister, please. Did you marry a grown man, or a first-grader? He doesn't "like" getting constant phone calls? Well I've got news for him. NO ONE likes getting constant phone calls from care facility employees or the perpetually complaining, miserable, guilt-tripping elder who had to placed in a care facility.

Does he know that there's wonderful inventions for phones these days called Caller ID and voicemail? He doesn't have to take every call or any for that matter. He can listen to whatever voicemails he wants and delete the rest.

Nursing homes and memory care facilities aren't always great places and Medicaid ones never are. It is what it is though. You did your best to be her caregiver. Now you can't do it anymore and that's okay. Other arrangements have to be made. Both of you can still help with her care if she is placed. Private help can go to the facility a few hours a week. There are volunteer groups who do this for free for elders in care facilities. There are options and none of the options involve you paying for her care.

Separate your income and finances from his and do not pay one cent out of your money for her care.

You and the child come before his mother. This is what he chose when he married and started a family with you. Remind him of this.

Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.

If your husband continues to insist your funds go toward his mother’s care, please separate your finances from his, your own financial future is important and needs guarding. No way you should be paying for her care.
And FYI, my mother went from private pay to Medicaid in the best nursing home in her city, receiving the same competent, kind care throughout, in the same bed, same room, same caregivers. No one outside the business director knew or cared how she was paying. The only way to become Medicaid qualified is to spend mom’s money, spending yours will never help toward that