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From all the stress of dealing with my husband, I have developed hoarseness. I am convinced that there is nothing physically wrong, it is just stress. When I talk to people on the phone when I am not home, they immediately comment that my voice sounds so much better.


My husband insisted that I had to talk to the doctor about my clearing my throat "so much" (maybe a few times a day -- while he sits and sucks his teeth for hours on end, every twenty seconds or so). So I mentioned it to the doctor at my annual this week. Her answer is for me to go on an anti-anxiety medication, Lexapro. If I refuse that, then she is referring me to an ENT.


I absolutely do not want to take a medication I feel I do not need to help me "cope" with my husband's behavior. But I also don't want to go to an ENT and have to submit to testing.

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O my dear, i am sure you need a great thorough exam and good diagnosis by a competent ENT Dr. You need to have ruled out any truly purely physical cause for your symptoms.I am so very glad that you are smart anough to reject so called anti anxiety meds.Hang in there! Never ever takr anything that could change how your precious brain works.If a good check up shows no physical reason for your symptoms, take sublingual methyl B12 every morning and eat a lot of magnesium rich foods such as nuts and spinach every day.Good food is good medicineDrink a lot of whole milk and eat at least one whole egg every day.Eat a lot f organic berries, fruits, and veggies every day.Never ever take lexapro nor anthing else like it. God bless you1
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Hi graygrammie, Breathing is an interesting function! Most of us do not realize that we hold our breath and stop breathing many times during the day. I am one of those. I have copd and use a c-pap and am constantly being reminded to BREATH. During stressful situations, or even anticipating the stress to come, I have come to recognize this pattern. Our throats constrict during stress causing lack of oxygen and dryness thus affecting our ability to speak. Trying to talk in this mode creates the "hoarse sound". That is why when the source is removed we are in what I call "normal" mode. There are many methods that can help. Two of mine are a glass of water (lubrication & breathing) and simply stepping away. Go to another room, either outside or in my home and just concentrate on my beloved pets. Sometimes I stop talking or listening. Only you can determine what is your release valve. Stay strong, set firm boundaries and stick to them. I know it's not easy.
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A doctor suggested you to go an an anti-anxiety med for "clearing your throat?" I have never heard.

I do know allergies and acid reflux can cause it. Drainage from sinus also.
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GG, you are remembering to breathe, are you? It's just a thought - when we're stressed, we often don't breathe, not properly. We hold our breath and feel constricted. I wonder if that might partly explain the immediate difference in your voice.
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NeedHelpWithMom Sep 2020
It’s true. That was one of the first things my therapist told me. He said that I didn’t breathe and then I would finally gasp for air.

I was so stressed with caregiving that I didn’t even realize that I wasn’t breathing. He taught me breathing exercises that I practiced. It helped me tremendously.

This is a great point that often goes overlooked! We take breathing for granted and when we are stressed many of us aren’t breathing properly.
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Good for you for going to the game! Enjoy!

"Insists"?

Tell him "No, that doesn't suit me any longer".

GG, you hold ALL the cards here. Where would he be if you were not there to care for him?
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I don't understand why you are reluctant to at least consult with an ENT doctor. You don't have to take any tests you don't want to; but, you might gain some insight into why you are "clearing your throat" so often.

It's interesting that your husband has noticed this - his sucking his teeth may be a habit he doesn't even realize he's developed. Perhaps it's due to anxiety or some other reason.

It's puzzling that people you talk to on the phone comment on how much better your voice sounds. That doesn't make a great deal of sense if your voice has developed a hoarseness.

You may have developed a post-nasal drip, which results in your attempting to clear your throat or the air you breath may contain so little moisture that you mouth is becoming dry & you're unaware of it.

Then, it's possible there's some other reason for your voice becoming hoarse.

Personally, I think you should get checked out by an ENT specialist; but, it's your call.
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graygrammie Sep 2020
Due to the helpful responses here, I will follow through with seeing the ENT.

To clarify about the phone -- when I am not at home or dh is not at home and I talk on the phone, then people say my voice sounds better. When dh is sitting next to me, muttering and commenting and criticizing the whole way through the conversation (and he insists that some phone calls have to be in his presence, like the call to my father every night at 7:00), then my voice is hoarse. Same phones (either home or cell), same me, different circumstances.

And quite honestly, other than the grocery store and the post office, I don't talk or see anyone outside the house.

On the plus side, I am going to dgs's t-ball game today. Dh feels he is too tired / weak / in pain to sit outside to watch a t-ball game. However, if someone contacts him about golfing, he'll be out the door lickety split. He tried real hard to guilt me last night about going but I stood my ground.
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GG, antidepressants don't make you have brain fog. At least that was not my experience with them on several occasions.

I have parented, driven, and graduated from Grad school with honors while on ADs.

If DH can golf and you think you can do without caregivers, then you can leave for several hours during the day and take a walk in the park. Or visit your therapist. Or sit at home and read in another room.

Your depression, which I believe your doctor picked up on, is leading you to think in very black/white terms. ADs can help with this.

The other thing that strikes me is that your marriage was apparently troubled 30 years ago (in the 90s, you say). Yet you feel that a dementia dignosis long after that fact is a reason, not only stay, which I get, but to bow down to his very illigitimate behavioral demands.

I think you are digging yourself into a hole from which you may not escape.
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BarbBrooklyn Sep 2020
GG, on case you think Im being too harsh in my answers...been there, done that.
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GG, thanks for the update.

A very wise poster here, JeanneGibbs, cared for her husband Coy during his long battle with Lewy Body dementia. She alsways said "I can't promise not to put you in a nursing home, but I will never abandon you". It has always struck me as being a wise and compassionate response. And I seem to recall her mentioning thay she was greatly helped by a low dose of antidepressant.

GG, if there is one thing Ive learned in life, it is that it's usually not the most troubled person in a relationship who seeks treatment, it's the one who realizes that they must adjust their thinking to deal with the situation. Meds and talk therapy both help with this.
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graygrammie Sep 2020
Thank you for this wisdom.
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Grammie,

I am so sorry that your husband has caused so much pain and stress in your life.
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Built walls in your mind medication is bad. Old school thinking. I went through times like yours and yes Lexipro helps. It took about two weeks for it to begin to help. I have had it for a while and no side effects.I take it in the form of ecitalopram. When you are caring for some one it can effect you very seriously.Always check with your Dr. after about 3 weeks and see how you are feeling.
You can looks on Webmed and pic the pill section. I tells you about the med.
Thank you for reading and I hope this helped. Jane Osborne
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GG, you recently had to go to do some caregiving for your late mom and then again to attend her funeral (If I recall correctly, your husband didn't want you to leave, using his "I'm the head of this family" mantra).

How did you manage that trip? Did he go to respite care or did you have caregivers come in?

Are all of his (and your) legal documents in place, i.e., will, POA, living will? Have you seen an eldercare attorney about getting him qualified for Medicaid, if that is how his care is going to be paid for? Do you realize that as the Community Spouse, you will be protected and not impoverished?

His dementia is only going to get worse. What are your plans for the future?
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graygrammie Sep 2020
Dh went with me both before mom's passing and after she passed. We were only back home for 18 hours when I got the call she'd passed so it was a very quick turnaround. He is not to the place of needing caregivers. As long as we stay in the same familiar hotel, he is okay.

Yes, legal documents are in place, I just reviewed them again a few weeks ago. Have not seen an eldercare attorney or even thought about Medicaid. I will look into that.

He saw a pulmonologist today, referred by rheumatologist. He refused all diagnostic tests and the doctor pointed out that the possibility of a ventilator would be very real if he doesn't allow himself to receive the care he needs. He told the doc, nope, no ventilator, just let me go. Doc looked at me and asked if this has been discussed between us and do we have the proper documentation in place. I affirmed we did.

My plans for the future are one day at a time right now. He asked me a few weeks ago to promise to never put him in a nursing home. I was silent. The next day I broached the topic and told him that I could not make that promise but that I would do what was best for him in conjunction with our kids.
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Time to strike back! Clear your throat loudly whenever he sucks his teeth. Battle of the wills!
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I am not a doctor, but it sounds like post nasal drip or GERD. Both will give you the symptom you are talking about. Find a new doctor - sounds like she is the one who needs to take medication.
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Imho, do not ingest any medication that you do not believe that you need.
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Grammie, I have read some of your answers to others on the posts who questioned you more deeply on the situation. It sounds really as though this isn't about you or about a doctor's recommendation, but about a very troubled marriage. I do believe I would skip the medications AND the ENT and see a good psychologist to work out why you are staying in a marriage like this that makes you seem not only controlled by someone, but quite afraid of that person. I wish you the utmost best luck. This all sounds really very miserable. I think you need to understand that whatever decisions you make they are not about your husband or your doctors, but about your own choices going forward for how you wish to live. I know none of this is easy. It is a day at a time, a step at a time, but it can be done.
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graygrammie Sep 2020
I know why I am staying in the marriage -- because of his diagnosis of dementia. I was ready to leave, intended to tell the kids (they are all adults with kids of their own) my plans when we were all together at Christmas, but the diagnosis came the week before Christmas and totally changed my thoughts. It gave me an understanding that his deteriorating behavior since 2013 was probably not something he was in control of or was choosing. If it was a sin that could be repented of, then I felt free to leave. But the dementia diagnosis revealed to me that this was not something he could repent of and change or control so I felt that leaving was no longer an option to consider.
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Rather than question the doctor's recommendations, I would ask myself , "Why am I staying in this abusive marriage?".

Before calling an ENT, I would call a divorce lawyer.
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Then don’t take it! You are in charge of your body. However, you should consider seeing an ENT because it could be as simple as post nasal drip and a spray can clear that up. Unfortunately, I know of 3 people who died of cancer of the esophagus so I see no harm in getting the exam even if you don’t want to take medicine. Lexipro is a safe SSRI medication BUT nobody can make you take anything if you don’t want to do so.
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"Lots to answer there!

Dh will glare and make disapproving sounds when I read in his presence. I can play games on my tablet but not read a magazine or book. (And yes, I have the kindle app on my tablet and do sneak read books there!) No physical violence has ever happened.

He is more than aware of his bad habit. He gets very defensive if I mention it. "You don't know what it is like to be me."

And yes, in 2017 after a seizure that put him in the hospital, I refused to bring him home until there was a psych eval. My dd (lives eight hours away) was there and supported me in this. Before the psych eval, a doctor came in with the results on his MRI. He pointed out an area of old injury, possibly even back to his high school football days in the 70s, and said that it was evidence of frontotemporal disorder, then told me that was another word for dementia. It was kind of like a light bulb going off for me because it explained why his behavior had become so awful since 2013. Then the psychiatrist came in and, among other things, administered the MMSE. He got just about every answer wrong. The psychiatrist diagnosed mild cognitive disorder, then told me "that's another word for dementia." Light bulb just got brighter. He was referred to a neurologist who did another MMSE and decided to back off on the mild cognitive disorder diagnosis based on what she saw in the office visit as he interacted with her. (But he still failed that MMSE as well, just not as spectacularly this time.) And she, (nor any other doctor) has ever addressed the FTD in spite of me bringing it up privately and asking for it to be discussed. I'm glad my dd was there that day and heard both doctors give their dementia diagnosis. My own doctor gave me a book for understanding dementia and signs to look for as it progresses. That little book has been so on target for what I see in him.

I used to have a ladies Bible study group I went to, even began developing some relationships there -- going out to lunch once a month. And I used to get together with former co-workers -- again lunch once a month. But of course all that stopped in March. And I used to get together with my other dd once a month for a walk in a state park but she moved ten hours away last summer. The only thing I do now is babysit grandkids (those two boys were a terror yesterday!) occasionally or grocery shop.

As far as seeing the ENT, I am probably going to tell him that the office doesn't allow him to accompany me, otherwise he is going to insist on coming along."

So he glares. Big deal. Is the approval of someone with brain damage so important? (That sounds harsh to me; but it is the truth)
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Dear OP, what do you do when DH goes out to play golf? Leave your phone at home by mistake, go out and spend as much time as you like shopping, in the library, or seeing a counselor. If you don’t have your own car, get a taxi.

Think twice before going back to the Bible study group. The line about “I am still head of this household and you will do what I say" comes from St Paul and various other bits of the Bible, and is not what Jesus ever said. Your husband’s comments may mean that he has latched on to some texts that suit controlling men, and are not the way that Jesus ever thought. Perhaps find a different Bible study group that won’t reinforce submission as the duty of a good wife.

Learning to stand up to your husband may not go down too well, but in your circumstances it probably won’t result in divorce (and divorce is not nice to go through, believe me). Husband has too much to lose.

Find someone to talk to who will come from a different perspective from your doctor. It’s true that this is a very stressful situation now, and may get more stressful. A mild tranquiliser might help, in my own experience, and doesn’t have to continue if you decide to stop. Don’t take it if you don’t want to, but don’t be ideologically opposed to it. You need all the help you can get!

Clearing your throat a few times a day, and not if you are out of the house, doesn’t sound like an urgent medical issue. However it might make it easier to move to a different GP. This one sounds like he still follows 19th century Freud – women are hysterical, nervous & unbalanced, and probably messed up sexually.

Thank you for coming to the Forum. It’s a great first step. Now work out the second step! Yours, Margaret
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graygrammie Sep 2020
I love to be home alone, so that is my "me" time when he golfs. I am not a shopper, hate shopping. My sister is the same and yet our mother and our daughters all love to shop. We joke that the shopping gene skipped a generation.

And I know NOW that there is a lot of erroneous teaching based on misinterpreted bible verses. We were subjected to that kind of teaching while we were engaged and in the early years of our marriage (mid-70s). My husband never let go of that but I did in recent years. The bible study I was attending confirmed for me the things I was starting to understand.
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Graygrammie, I was going through a very stressful time dealing with a friend’s trust/estate. SERIOUS stress. I started clearing my throat a lot without realizing it and ended up with a feeling of a lump in my throat 24/7. It was that feeling you get when you have swallowed a pill that feels “stuck.” Anyway, after a lot of tests I ended up at an ENT’s office. I was diagnosed with Laryngopharyngeal Reflux (Silent Reflux) in one minute after he put a scope up my nose. (Not pleasant but not terrible.) He said it likely was caused by the stress. It was fixed by following the GERD diet and taking a prescription dose Omeprozole – and by settling the trust. Just my experience.
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You have the right to refuse, stand your ground and see what you can do about it naturally/organically. Research online. You can do it!
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It's very common to take an anti depressants when you are categorizing for someone who causes stress. It has been very helpful to me. You don't notice any difference, but your body does. Things don't get to you as easily. You can let things go. Drink LOTS of water to help your vocal cords.
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Lexapro is an antidepressant that also helps with generalized anxiety. I understand the desire to avoid medication but if you are chronically depressed, initiating any of the actions stated here may be too much for you. The doc may just be right. Especially if he knows you well. All the advice here is good but reflects the writers’ biases about medication.
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Hopefully, I’m not stepping on toes, I confess to not reading all of the replies. I wanted to mention something:

When my husband was diagnosed with cancer, 20 years ago, HIS doctor sent Paxil home for me, because he said I would need it. It’s the mildest anti-depressant, I think. I didn’t even know I was on it, no side effects, just a little better.
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Stay away from drugs you do NOT need! Sleeping pills and Anxiety pills cause more problems than they help! Their are natural alternatives I would recommend before that. But your symptoms sound like it is not even related to stress! I would try something to help sooth your throat. It could be as simple as taking something like honey perhaps mixed with lemon juice.
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Just went back to read a few of the older posts...I don't know how the people found some of the add'l info about you graygrammie because when I clicked on your name and looked at your profile I found nothing more. Some of the earlier posts do say that you're not "allowed" to read things. Please explain? How are you not allowed? What happens if you pull out a magazine and start reading it? Is violence involved and if not, are you afraid he will get violent? If neither, then why not just read when you feel like it? You're already doing something he doesn't like (throat clearing) and you're not stopping because you can't.

Is he aware of his bad habit? That's a lot of teeth sucking. Have you ever recorded him doing it and showed it to him? Some posts seemed to mention that he had dementia but I couldn't find where they got that information-if that's true, then informing him of his habit probably will not help.

I did read that you say you'll probably see an ENT. One good thing about that will be that you'll be out of the house and away from the annoyance while you're there. And, whatever it is that you do when you speak of not being at home, is it possible for you to do more of those things? It seems like you feel as though you're better off while you're away, and you are free to speak with others then. Do you feel comfortable mentioning any of this to them?

I know I clear my throat a lot, but I have GERD, post nasal drip and thyroid issues so I'm aware that it can be bothersome to others - yours doesn't sound that bad though so you shouldn't be made to feel bad about it.
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graygrammie Sep 2020
Lots to answer there!

Dh will glare and make disapproving sounds when I read in his presence. I can play games on my tablet but not read a magazine or book. (And yes, I have the kindle app on my tablet and do sneak read books there!) No physical violence has ever happened.

He is more than aware of his bad habit. He gets very defensive if I mention it. "You don't know what it is like to be me."

And yes, in 2017 after a seizure that put him in the hospital, I refused to bring him home until there was a psych eval. My dd (lives eight hours away) was there and supported me in this. Before the psych eval, a doctor came in with the results on his MRI. He pointed out an area of old injury, possibly even back to his high school football days in the 70s, and said that it was evidence of frontotemporal disorder, then told me that was another word for dementia. It was kind of like a light bulb going off for me because it explained why his behavior had become so awful since 2013. Then the psychiatrist came in and, among other things, administered the MMSE. He got just about every answer wrong. The psychiatrist diagnosed mild cognitive disorder, then told me "that's another word for dementia." Light bulb just got brighter. He was referred to a neurologist who did another MMSE and decided to back off on the mild cognitive disorder diagnosis based on what she saw in the office visit as he interacted with her. (But he still failed that MMSE as well, just not as spectacularly this time.) And she, (nor any other doctor) has ever addressed the FTD in spite of me bringing it up privately and asking for it to be discussed. I'm glad my dd was there that day and heard both doctors give their dementia diagnosis. My own doctor gave me a book for understanding dementia and signs to look for as it progresses. That little book has been so on target for what I see in him.

I used to have a ladies Bible study group I went to, even began developing some relationships there -- going out to lunch once a month. And I used to get together with former co-workers -- again lunch once a month. But of course all that stopped in March. And I used to get together with my other dd once a month for a walk in a state park but she moved ten hours away last summer. The only thing I do now is babysit grandkids (those two boys were a terror yesterday!) occasionally or grocery shop.

As far as seeing the ENT, I am probably going to tell him that the office doesn't allow him to accompany me, otherwise he is going to insist on coming along.
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Part 2:

From your comments:

"There are no others. And he denies the dementia and likes to stay, "I may be sick but I am still head of this household and you will do what I say.""

NO ONE should have to take this kind of crap. NO ONE has the right to tell you what you will or won't do, period. Just because HE states he is head of household doesn't mean it is true, and it doesn't mean anything really. That's more of a Master/Slave relationship.

"I thought as a submissive wife I had to subject myself to that. I now know differently."

A step in the right direction. You do NOT have to subject yourself to this garbage. You DON'T have to AND shouldn't subject yourself to any of his crap.

"Yes, I do need to take a stand for myself but I want to know I have the support of others to back me up. Right now I do not have that."

Again, a step in the right direction, except you DO have our support! Granted we are online, you can't meet with us or have us over to set him straight, but we have your back! As noted in my other comment, been there (not as bad, but still...), done that. Verbal, emotional and psychological abuse is insidious. At some point you begin to believe what the other person says - you need to stand strong and break that cycle!

"Time away from my husband is impossible. Yes, I have to be in his presence constantly. I pay the price with verbal and emotional manipulation if I'm even gone longer than he thinks necessary for grocery shopping."

Why is time away impossible? Because he says so? You do what YOU want to do. If you are "late" returning from whatever, too bad. If he starts with verbal and emotional abuse, walk away. Go out again and return when YOU want to return. If he can go off golfing, he doesn't need your attention, care and personal presence 24/7. He may demand it, but he doesn't need it and shouldn't get it! Your son walks away when he starts, you should follow suit!

Is there a reason why you stay? Financial issues? No where to go? If there is no way to move him or you, then about all you can do is get away from this controlling situation whenever you can. Stand up to his crap. Sometimes bullies will continue to bully because they get away with it. Take a book and sit down in front of him to read it. He starts about that, put him in his place. If he verbally or physically tries to stop you, take your book and leave. Read to your heart's content! You shouldn't have to hide in another room to do anything. Get out whenever you WANT to get out. Stay away however long YOU want. His "need" to have you there sounds only like control, not an actual need.

If possible, restart that counseling - it may save your life! You need the support they can give you and perhaps advise for how to break this cycle. If you don't, it won't get better on it's own. Also, as dementia progresses, his behavior can get worse. That verbal abuse can drift into physical abuse. If he ever threatens you, get out and call 911. Husband or not, he is breaking the law and you need protection!
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graygrammie Sep 2020
I know that everything you say is right. I have come a long way from the role of submissive wife that I was taught back in the 70s. So much so that he didn't want me to go to ladies Bible study any more because they were teaching me "not to submit to my husband." I am slowly learning to stand up for myself. I had planned to leave in Jan. 2018, was going to tell our children while they were here at Christmas, then he had that seizure in Dec. 2017, we found out about the dementia, and it pretty much changed my plans when I now knew that there was a physical reason for his behavior.
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Once again, my verbiage exceeds the limits, so this will be 2 part:

Too many doctors today think a pill will cure what ails us. I think the general public had a hand in this, but it doesn't have to continue! Certainly there are medications that might be necessary or might help, but if there is an alternative that doesn't require taking medication, I'm all for it. As someone else said, having this doc suggest anxiety meds, but then going on to referral to ENT when the medication was refused seems a bit odd. Personally I think having a doc explore reasons WHY one might have symptoms would be first, and then if no resolution, perhaps chalk it up to stress. Even if it IS stress, one should make every attempt to eliminate the stress rather than "medicate" it away! I've had docs suggest meds (cholesterol - resolved that w/out meds, osteoporosis meds, nope, never!) As long as I can avoid medications, I will! If there's no alternative and it might be life-threatening, then I will consider it.

I haven't been able to dig up the previous discussions mentioned regarding your mother and husband and your profile doesn't list anything. From reading the comments, I can only guess - husband has dementia, but denies? How far along is this? What is the Dx and prognosis?

The rest of your replies sounds more like you are in an abusive relationship. Abuse doesn't have to be physical, it can be emotional and verbal. The worst part about that is no one else sees the bruises, so they don't understand. My ex wasn't as bad, but was drifting into that (we weren't old, no dementia involved, had young kids and it likely would have gotten worse had we stayed together.) He went to family counselor, but clearly his goal was to peg ME as the problem and seek custody of the kids, his way to control and hurt me. I didn't really want to go, but had an inkling what his motives were. After only 1/2 hr with me, then a session with both of us, where the counselor reiterated his complaints and my responses, it resulted in a lot of "well, yeah, she's right" from the ex. At the end, the counselor looked at him and stated that when he came in, I was painted as being the problem, but in his opinion, HE was the problem and HE was guilty of verbal abuse and neglect! Eye-opening for ME! All while the kids were growing up, he tried his best to intimidate me and make trouble. I was able to stand up to him, partly thanks to that counselor.

Another oddity is many times during a checkup, I would be asked if I felt threatened or under duress from anyone. I was living alone (with kids and after), so no, there was no issue there (other than the crap he would try, to no avail.) Given your situation, I am surprised this doc hasn't addressed your issues. Perhaps they haven't come up? Perhaps you need to enlighten her? Your doc AND his should be able to suggest ways to help both of you, but mainly to support YOU.

The focus shouldn't be on medication for you or exams by other doctors. While there could be a physical reason for it, it can just be a psychological reaction to him and his abuse. You shouldn't have to take ANY pill to deal with that! Perhaps you can document what you do each day, and note when your throat clearing happens. It just might be a subconscious reaction to his crap. Note also when it doesn't happen. You are aware, but document it! Seriously, throat clearing a few times a day isn't likely anything serious, esp when it seems better when he isn't around! It also sounds like it just annoys him, so he's directing you to get help. Sounds like the "cure" for this would be to stay away from the source, aka him.
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Your supplimental insurance gives you access to a psychologist that will help you deal with your concerns
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Wow ... Yep I had a friend that anytime she was stressed she got hoarse so yep. Your husband sucking on his teeth will never go away you have to learn to ignore it focus on yourself or on something else. You both have a lil condition one more annoying than the other depending on who you talk to...chil
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