My grandmother has been living with my mother and stepfather for about 3 years. She has dementia and hospice care, visiting aides, and is primarily cared for by my mother and stepfather, who receive caregiver pay, I suppose through NY state Medicaid. All three of them are very low-income and typically struggle to pay bills.
Recently, they sold my grandmother's home. My grandmother has not lived there for 3 years. The once-beautiful home was valued in the ballpark of $400k, but has been occupied by illegal occupants/ trespassers for 3 years. They completely and totally destroyed the home and the entire property. The home was sold as-is, occupants and all, and my mother/ grandmother cleared around $150,000 after paying off any outstanding liens. The money was transferred into their shared account, then my mothers account.
My mother swore up and down that she'd "help me out financially" once the money cleared... We have a toddler, a baby coming soon, and we've always worked hard and paid our own way. I was really kind of hoping that would work out, just to get a little financial help, because truthfully we really need it.
My mother now states that she needs to "hire a Medicaid lawyer to see if she can even keep the money." She says Medicaid will "come after" her, look at her bank accounts, and seize the money. She thinks Medicaid will "press charges," and says things like "I don't know, wouldn't Medicaid have put a lien on the home if they had claim to the money from it?" I'm certain she didn't consult lawyers or accountants appropriately during this process (because she never does).
I'm now trying to research and catch up to figure out what on God's green earth she's talking about. I know she's my grandmother's POA and there was a will made in the last 1-2 years. I don't think they've disclosed this change in status to Medicaid yet. My mother is, overall, VERY bad at doing anything that requires an accountant, lawyer, paperwork, etc.
What do I even suggest she do now? I don't understand how this works; will the house sale cancel Medicaid and/or cause Medicaid to "seize" the proceeds?
As POA your mom just committed a crime by transferring your grandma's money to herself, she CAN NOT enrich herself in the commission of her fiduciary duties as a POA.
Quite frankly, they should not consider this a windfall of riches to spend as they choose, they need to pay their own way. 150k cash makes her ineligible for welfare benefits. As it should.
Sorry, you are going to have to finance your own life, mom can not give you money from this sale, it isn't her money to give.
The half of the proceeds of the home that were owned by grandmother are HER ASSETS and cannot be claimed by her daughter and given to anyone, including you.
This could be considered theft and elder abuse. If grandmother was on Medicaid then that portion of the home that belonged to her would have been/should have been listed with her assets. Any account that melds money in this way is entirely illegal.
Take your Mom to a good Elder Law Attorney with all the details, deeds, bills of sale, account information and allow an expert to work this out with all information to hand. And answer to will grandmother lose medicaid? Yes, she will, because she now has assets and they will be spent for her care, as they would be recovered upon sale of the home by Medicaid after her death and upon sale.
But the instant she moved that money to her own account, I think she likely created some problems for herself. That essentially looks like she gifted herself $150,000.....which on Medicaid is a no-no.
You are correct, your mother should have consulted with an attorney before doing any of it. She desperately needs to contact one now for sure. Medicaid doesn't want a house. They want the proceeds. So the "lien" would be for the purposes of recovering that money. They don't want or need property - they just want to recoup the funds they are providing for her care. Because that asset not being sold prevented those funds from being used for her care, and her care was paid for by Medicaid, so they are looking to get that back if there is anything to pull from.
Also, the house was worth 400k at one time. When it sold, it had to sell for Market value. 150k may not be considered Market Value even with the danages. Yes, Mom needs an Elder Lawyer who is versed in Medicaid law.
An eldercare attorney is recommended for this situation and will be paid for with your mothers/grandmothers money. Medicaid will not press charges but will review documentation at application and any renew of benefits (usually a annual occurance) in future years. NYS Medicaid is meticulous with reviewing and requesting additional support documention. If deemed that there were non allowable (likely) gifts she will be penilized and loose benefits until the calculated penalty is fufilled.
Any transfers, withdrawals or checks written over $1,999 will require documentation of bank activity, copy of check or withdrawl slip and receipts.
I have empathy for your financial circumstance but as it stands now the money should be used and most likely will be used for your grandmothers care since it is her money.
This is what some of my questions to Avianca were about. The answers will lead to just how much trouble her mom could be in….. like if her mom could put back all the $ back 100% to her own mother’s old bank account, so a “no harm no foul” type of thing for Medicaid. Medicaid can chalk it up too the mom/POA is an idiot. So $ goes back 100% & mom gets removed from being POA and the mom gets an elder law atty to deal with this and the new atty become the grandmas fiduciary; OR IF it’s a bigger issue like if her mom (& stepdad) need to start looking for a defense attorney. StepDad gets pulled in, as care was going on in a home he too lives in and probably has ownership in, plus if that bank account is his and the wife’s he has shared responsibility. If he too was being paid as a caregiver by the State under community Medicaid, that’s another issue (her post reads “they were receiving caregiver pay”)
Totally agree with you that Medicaid won’t press charges normally on misspent by idiots type of stuff if reasonable attempt to repay is done. But - BUT IF - mom &/or Dad were also being paid by the State as caregivers, that is a whole other issue as there would be some type of State Dept of Labor* / State Dept of Employment Security contract done . They are likely not quite so flexible as Medicaid. Plus if they too were on “at need” programs that require notification on asset/income changes, all $ the mom took affects their own eligibility. It’s pretty beyond “my mom is/was an idiot” as an excuse imo. Her mom & step dad have to lawyer up.
* have no idea on NYS but my State Dept of Labor is a beast on keeping in detail all work / employees verification and putting it into the TALX system which gets looked at for any kind of public assistance. Plus it dovetails to find irregularities & possible fraud. State will quietly go after restitution and will file charges if need be. DoL does not mess around in my opinion.
I have a couple of questions for you….
1. has grandma ever been in a nursing home. Or has all her care been in her home?
2. it sounds like mom is being paid by New York State to be an in home healthcare provider for grandma? Is that it? If so that is a community based program and if they are low income then it would be a program the Medicaid HCbS division does. Does this seem to be what it is?
2. b For this inhome healthcare filing, which address was used as grandma’s home? Was it her actual legal residence of that old house which has since been sold? Or your parents home? it can be pretty important distinction of how g’ma filed. If you don’t know, thats ok.
3. The house for the year it sold, what did the local tax assessor/ collector has it for its value? Value will be in 2 parts…. The land and the “improvements” which means the house and any outbuildings like a garage. This you can find out as you can go to the county on-line records to see this type of info. Try to find out. You many need to call the tax assessors office, the staff is usually very helpful.
4. you mentioned there were liens on the house. Liens placed by whom? Think about this and if this was blight notices from the city or county, then you want to try to search in the City / county code enforcement or safety & permits department filings as to what was placed on the house. And print out those blight notice or fines that were done. Finding this will be beyond mucho importante mija as it will establish that GMa’s house was not Fair Market Value. Otherwise if it was shown to be 400K as how the tax assessor had it, well selling for below that creates a gap of its value which has BOTH tax implications (like IRS) and problems for GMa’s eligibility for low income program that look at financial “at need” for requirement.
5. mom is definitely screwed the pooch when she moved the house sale money to her own bank account. How bad this is for her & GMA is deep on if she still has the $. If she does and redpesited it ack to GMa’s account, Medicaid will probably be ok with this part of this mess.
and now this leads to the biggest issue, imo…
Has mom been taking $ in amounts over $250 from her mother’s bank accounts for things she does not have receipts to clearly establish the $ was only to reimburse her (mom) for things she bought for the exclusive use of grandma or for something needed for grandmas house?
and
were you ever gifted $ directly from grandmas past 5 years? Again $ that was over $250 done by check for GMA to you or your husband / partner?
what to do about all this is like putting together a puzzle, your answers will help figure out a lot of the puzzle. Answers will be easier to put together a plan on how to deal with this mess.
Your State's Bar can identify an attorney. Or check with your Area Agency on Aging.
So sorry. Sadly there are "do overs" here and you/your mom and gma need legal advice to unpack this hot mess.
I agree with most of the responses. Each state has its own guidelines for Medicaid.
I feel sorry for your family and hope you find a skilled attorney to assist you in this situation.
Medicaid will allow a medicaid recipient to keep the house that they (and/or spouse) live in. Your grandmother hasn't lived in the house for 3 years. I wonder if she "forgot" to claim it as an asset when applying for Medicaid. If this asset was discovered by Medicaid after the fact, it would be considered fraud if she failed to mention it. Selling assets and passing on money to relatives, if it occurs while receiving Medicaid benefits, or up to 5 years prior (the "lookback" period), is also something which is supposed to be reported or could be considered fraud.
It seems your mother (and possibly your grandmother) is attempting to defraud a government benefit agency, and if I were you, I would have nothing to do with it.
Yes, it is possible they could come after her, if this transaction is discovered, and she will owe money to the government.
It would be good if you could get a senior advisor or financial person to talk with you and your mother and grandmother. If she does gift it to you she can check to see how much she can give without tax or medicaid problems.
I think this is a good move on your mother's part. Your dilemma is difficult but you can't demand from someone else help but express your need in a calm, proactive way.