When siblings both have POA but can’t agree on which assisted living mom should be placed, how is it decided?

Stand your ground whilst sister is working and agree Mum can move when your sister gives up work and is free to do all you do at present. She cannot currently do what you do, but if she likes to take it over when she retires then it would make sense to consider where Mum is best placed. But in addition to where she is best placed one would hope the two of you could consider whether she is likely to want to move, or if the disruption would be distressing for her - time to think of Mum really, you two can be adult and reach a decision based on sensible conversation.

I would be comparing quality of care as the first criteria.
Can mom help in sharing her view? Would she be more comfortable with you
near for her medical needs?
Was she and your sister very close, and it would cause stress on the sister not to see her?
Seems to make sense as you do more hands on medical appt taking, for you to be closer to her facility. But try to think ahead to the effect on your sister and your mother.
a good honest talk with all of you, to at least voice where you are all at in your thinking and your feelings. Feelings are valid, not always practical though. so practical has to rule it, but validating the feelings helps a lot.

Imho, perhaps you should see what your mother's wishes are.

Well. I can see both points of view.

Fortunately neither of you is terribly far from your mother whichever location you finally finally finally decide on!

To be your sister's advocate - she's working 2 jobs, you're retired = you've got more free time to fit a one and a half hour round trip into than she has. And a 45 minute drive, although it's not on the doorstep, isn't so far that you can't be there within the hour if you're needed.

How do the facilities themselves compare?

Does your mother have an opinion?

Yell your sister everything you just said here.
Your sister is busy and will probably just visit mom once a week.
Since you go over daily, it makes more sense for mom to be near you.
But, actually the best place for mom is to be aced in the home of a loved one.
Nusing Homes are all understaffed and all have problems.

If mom can't live with you, then the next best thing is to check on her daily and at different times like you mentioned.

The only other think is if the Nursing Home will allow you to install a camera in your mom's room so ya'll can check on her 24 7 from your Cell phone or computer.

https://www.seniorguidance.org/senior-living/how-to-choose-assisted-living-facility/

Cay5587, your sister is complaining about a problem which is only a problem for her, so beat her at her own game and provide a solution. Your sister wants to see her mother more often, and thus arrange for her to do it electronically, as millions of people around the world do:
- daily if possible, connect your sister and mom via live screen so they can see one another’s faces, and hear one another’s voices, even if they’re just “together” and not talking - we use FaceTime which comes free on iPad, or Zoom which is also free and very easy to use and works on many different devices. To accomplish this:
- buy two electronic, easy to hold tablets of some sort. In our family we all like lightweight iPads so we can FaceTime
- gift one to your sister and you carry one back and forth from your mom’s assisted living center (so it isn’t swiped by someone)
- you both must have internet access
- whenever convenient, such as your sister’s lunch break, or as she is putting on makeup in the morning, or when she is sitting on her porch at night with her feet up, obviously when you are with your mother, just press the button on your device to call her device, or have her press her button to call your device, and voila you’re connected for a long or short visit

Buying two electronic devices is going to be literally thousands of times cheaper (monetarily & in physical effort) than moving your mother to live close to your sister and far from you as daily caregiver.

As ACaringDaughter remarked one hour ago: “If you do everything just as your sister wishes, she might not be happy anyway.”

As Taarna said 40 minutes ago: “ It sounds more like your sister is not happy with her life situation. When she compares her life to yours, she feels anger.” Bingo! Sister isn’t going to be happy, no matter how many times you give in to her understandable but irrational demands, thus:

I think you need to tell your sister you’ve heard her concerns, considered logical options, and connecting with mother electronically will be the compromise (at least until sister retires, and until your mother needs more care and needs to move anyway at which time mom can move close to sister, and sister can take over the daily care).

The modern era’s electronic connection capabilities border on miraculous. Take advantage! Steel yourself against your sister’s complaints, YOU are doing virtually all the heavy lifting with your mother’s care, and it sounds like you are doing an absolutely brilliant job. Stay strong!

I think this question has answered itself. Your sister works TWO JOBS and wants her close. I can understand that. However, there is such a thing as a telephone to call your mother. Since YOU are the one who has to do everything for her mother, and she is already established where she is, I would leave her where she is so YOU can take care of her. I understand your sister wants to be involved but with two jobs, how can she? She should be glad you are doing all the work.

You need to read how the POA was written. In most cases when there is more than one person assigned as an "agent" on the POA one person will be listed as the primary agent and the other will be the secondary agent who only acts if the primary agent is unavailable.

There are some POA's which give equal power to all agents. If this is how it is written then all the individuals listed as agents must agree before any decision can be made. Most elder law attorneys don't advise the individuals draw up the power of attorney having all agents as equal for the reason you stated above. If they don't agree then nothing can be done.

Remember, if you mom is still able to make medical decisions then regardless of what her children want her decision is final. If she is unable legally to make the decision and you and your sister can't agree then your only option is to take her to court and try to become the guardian/conservator for your mom. That is never a good decision because it can create a long-lasting division between you and your sister.

I don't think the issue truly is your mom's placement. It sounds more like your sister is not happy with her life situation. When she compares her life to yours, she feels anger.

May I suggest that you and your sister engage a counsellor for some mediation counselling and outlining a plan of care for your mom for health issues. I would also suggest you read any of the "boundary" books by Townsend and Cloud to come up with a plan to handle your sister's hostile comments.

It might be a good idea to hire a family mediator (or get a disinterested 3rd party like your mother's pastor) to help you decide what is best for your mom. For both of you to agree that the mediator's decision will be final.

https://apfmnet.org/frequently-asked-questions-about-family-mediation/

If Mom is already in AL,why would you move her?? I say leave Mom where she is, unless the facility mistreats her. Change is difficult for the elderly.
I understand your sister's concerns, but it's what's best for Mom. I live an hour from my Mom and certainly don't like the drive either. Is it possible for your sister to call Mom? I know my Mom looks forward to my calls.

Let your mom be the one who chooses! If she is happy, let her stay where she is.

This may signal the beginning of problems with your sister. If you do everything just as your sister wishes, she might not be happy anyway. So strive to make your mom happy instead. She should not be able to legitimately disagree with that.

Build up your other friendships so that you don’t feel empty if your relationship with your sister disappears.

My sister and I were both POA for dad, financial and medical. The one with Medical should be closer to mom in my opinion. If both have it then it’s a toss up but my vote would go with who is retired. In our case we were both retired but my dad lived by me in Oklahoma and my sister lived in Dallas 4 hours away. I did the lion's share obviously living close to him, but things she could do, I would relinquish to her and we agreed.

In your case the sister working 2 jobs is not able to take her to doctor appointments, drop by easily if there is an issue because she is working. I see why she wants her near…just to cut down on her drive which is 30 minutes more than yours. But realistically it doesn’t make sense to me. Moving anyone with dementia is hard on them so it needs to be well thought out. If there were a better and cheaper facility farther from you and closer to her, then move her but only if you feel the care she is getting is not in your MOTHER's best interest. Mom should be the priority here not a squabble over who drives the farthest.

I’ll be honest - I can understand your sister’s feelings, and to keep the peace, I think you should try to put yourself in her shoes. She sounds like she is very busy as life is sometimes. She wants to be there for your mom, but can’t as she is working 2 jobs. You’re retired, have more time on your hands, and therefore can take the extra time.

It’s clear that you BOTH want what’s best for Mom. If it were me, I’d try to find a compromise if/when your mom needs to be moved so that you both don’t feel like you got the poopy end of the stick.

Your mom - how lucky to have to two doting children who are both eager and wanting to be there and help!

Since Mom has a Dementia I would not move her. If she has settled in nicely and trusts the staff moving her now could cause a decline. The AL is not always going to be able to care for Mom especially if she needs specialized care. They are not set up for that. When she gets to that point, then find a place easier for both of you to see her.

At this point do what’s best for your mom.

My husbands family was in total disagreement. Oldest was power playing …male, oldest…yayadadayada Family totally split. No repair! Honest communication goes a long way .

Let me tell you a story which you can pass on to your sister.

When mom first moved out of her home, she went to an Independent Living Facility that was in HER neighborhood (so her friends could visit; none ever did) and about equidistant from one brother and me.

After about 2 years there, mom had a stroke and was sent to the ER via ambulance. Mom couldn't speak, so she just nodded in agreement with anything they asked, like "do you take insulin for diabetes?".

Be the time my brother got there an hour later, mom was being given insulin. Have you ever tried to get someeone taken OFF insulin when they've endorsed it as being on their med list? Oy!

We agreed then and there that mom needed to be 10 minutes from ONE of us from there on in. I was then 90 minutes drive from mom; I made the trip either every or every other week, depending on the weather. My brother and SIL were able to drop in several times a week.

Ignore your sister's complaints after explaining ONE MORE TIME that someone needs to be very close by for emergencies.

Let me tell you a stiry which you can pass on to your sister.

When mom first moved out of her home, she went to an Independent Living Facility that was in HER neighborhood (so her friends could visit; none ever did) and about equidistant from one brother and me.

Afterr about 2 years there, mom had a stroke and was sent to the ER via ambulance. Mom couldn't speak, so she just nodded in agreement with anything they asked, like "do you take insulin for diabetes?".

Be the time my brother got there an hour later, mom was being given insulin. Have you ever tried to get someeone taken OFF insulin when they've endorsed it as being on their ned list? Oy!

We agreed then and there that mom needed to be 10 minutes from ONE of us from there on in. I was then 90 minutes drive from mom; I made the trip either every or every other week, depending on the weather. My brither and SIL were abke to drop in several timea a week.

Ignore your sister's complaints after explaining ONE MORE TIME that someone needs to be very close by for emwrgencies.

Hopefully since you "both have POA", you are referring to one document and it names one of you as primary POA and the other as secondary POA. If it does, then the primary POA makes the call (legally) if the two disagree. I would encourage the two of you to talk with a counselor and attempt to come to an agreement outside of the courts. Moving mom multiple times is to be avoided if possible, for your mother's welfare. Going to court will get a declared winner, but it will damage your family in ways that may never heal. If the POAs appear too argumentative with each other, the court may decide to appointment someone else to oversee your mother's care.

With your mom having dementia/Alzheimer's(as you say in your profile)the time may come sooner than you think that she will have to be moved to a memory care facility. Hopefully that is an option in the assisted living facility that she's in now.

To me it sounds like your sister is being very selfish in wanting mom near her, when it is you who does all the leg work and she works 2 jobs. She's obviously just wanting her life to be more convenient, and the heck with things being convenient for you and your mom.

When someone is suffering from any of the dementias, the worst thing you can do is to keep moving them from here to there. They do much better in surroundings that they're familiar with, and with routine, so tell sis that for now mom is where she needs to be, and that you are doing what is in the best interest of mom, and not her, as that really is the bottom line. Best wishes.

Placing her where it is more convenient for doctor visits, makes sense.
As long as the facility is taking good care of her.
I think the wisest decision was made.
With dementia to move her now would probably do more harm than good if it is only to get her closer to your sister.

You have done the right thing for your mother.

Visitation is not the only need she has.

I have to run over to my mother’s MC FREQUENTLY. She is currently having fainting spells. When she is REALLY out of it, I need to go over there.

Also, she needs me to keep my eye on her caregivers. They are lovely people, but we all know that if they are thanked frequently, they will treat our Loved Ones better. Human nature. If it is possible to do it in person, all the better.

Again, you are doing the right thing by your mother. That’s my vote.

When you say “both have”, can you each make decisions independently, or do you have to make decisions as a team?

Either way, the only real tie breaker is taking the question to court.

Is your mother able to give her own opinion? That would be a good option.

It sounds as though the current arrangement is best for mother (and you), but yes it is more difficult for your sister – both the travel and her other commitments. Is there something you can do for sister, to show your appreciation for the trouble she has to take to visit? Justifying it by 'what's best for mom' is probably a bit hard to swallow. She may be jealous of your extra contact, rather than understanding how important your functions are for mother. Try for some sort of compromise.

If it really gets difficult, agree on someone neutral who can be 'judge'. That's the way that arbitration and mediation are set up.

Dear Cay,

I know you're trying to do the best you can for your mom. I had these struggles with my sisters too. I would leave your mom in place and try to talk to you sister again. I don't know if she would agree to talk with a social worker, therapist or a family friend. I hope this link helps:

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/sibling-disputes-about-elderly-parents-care-134376.htm