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My 87 year old grandma that is suffering with dementia moved in with us about 5 months ago. It hasn't been bad for the most part...she has good days and bad days but, this past weekend she went completely crazy. She ran out of the house with a safety pin and a pair of fingernail clippers stating I was going to hurt her (I'm the only one who consistently is patient with her outbursts) and that I'm hiding her money upstairs (we live in a single-story home--no attic). I didn't try to argue with her because I've learned that they're beyond the point of reasoning. I chased her down in the rain and begged her to come back inside and eventually had to call 911 to have an ambulance take her to the hospital. She ended up having a UTI and is much better now--even embarrassed about how she acted--but, my gracious, I'm so nervous with her staying with us now. I haven't been able to get a good night's rest since. She was diagnosed about a year or so ago with mild dementia but, it was always forgetting to eat, take her medicine or forgetting what day of the week it was. She is still able to bathe, feed, and toilet herself. She even likes to go get our mail and walk around the yard. We have never had a problem with her. She would have paranoia about her money after the move into our place but, it never made her run away. My husband and I are both working full time and we really try so hard to take good care of her. We are both in our mid-20s and I'm pregnant with my second child and my first is 2.5 years old. I really don't want to put her in a nursing home but, I don't know if I'm doing her justice by keeping her home. I'm always on top of her medicine and doctors appointments but, with work and going on 2 young children...I don't know what the right option is. I would appreciate any and all advice from experienced Alzheimer's/dementia caregivers. Or anyone with experience with putting a loved one in assisted living/nursing home.

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It's a tough one, but admire you two for being so young and taking your grandmother into your house. Nursing house for me is last resort. Check your area and see with her insurance and income status if she qualifies for home health care or adult day care. Maybe have another relative come and help out. A adult sitter/friend. My mom has had several episodes, paranoia, and yes pointless in arguing. I have to stay on top on dr. Appts., meds, etc. Uses a walker when she wants or I'll be her walker sometimes... but it's a decision between you and family..... Congrats on baby on the way! Best wishes!!!
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Spaulding18 Aug 2018
It is very tough. I want to make sure I do the best thing for everyone. Especially my grandma. I think we will makes plans for everything just to make sure that when the time comes we will be ready. I think from your answer and everyone else's answers we will take baby steps to see what works. We will start with home health and home care then, if necessary, move to the nursing home. I feel like that is the best option for us now. Thank you for your input!
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The rule of thumb is, if you’re asking about a nursing home, it’s time for a nursing home.

I went through it with both parents. Stubborn dementia, the whole 9 yards. But I’m in my 60s and retired. You guys are far too young to let this become your full time job, which it will be in short order.

Take a look at her finances. Visit some facilities in your area. There’s no way you can do this at home with a young family.
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Spaulding18 Aug 2018
I get where you are coming from. My grandma is having more good days than bad right now. I know we have a lot on our plate but, family is family and I just want to make sure we all have a good quality of life considering the circumstances. Thank you for your answer. I appreciate your input.
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When an elderly person gets a UTI, it is very common for them to have hallucinations and delusions. It sounds like this was the case with your grandmother over the weekend. It is very likely that the behavior you witnessed this weekend was due to her UTI -- not her dementia. If that is the case, you should see the "craziness" disappear as the UTI clears up with treatment.

If she is still able to bathe, feed, and toilet herself, she is very high functioning on the dementia scale and it is much too early to put her into a nursing home.

My grandmother did not have dementia, but she would act absolutely crazy if she had a UTI.. On the other hand, my mother had a brain illness that caused rapidly progressive dementia, and she needed care the last 3 1/2 months of her life as she became unable to perform any "activities of daily living" for herself (bathing, feeding, dressing, toileting, etc.) Don't be too quick to admit your grandmother to care just because she has a dementia diagnosis, especially if there is some other condition present that can cause the symptoms you mentioned and is easily treated with antibiotics.
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Spaulding18 Aug 2018
The next day my grandma was so bent out of shape about how she acted. She was back to her pre-UTI self. She was caring and kind. She didn't come out of her room the whole day because she was so embarrassed. I had to repeatedly tell her that we all have good days and bad days and that we love her no matter what.
My fears are stemming from the uncertainty of this disease. I'm just scared that it will happen again and who knows if I'll be able to run after her with 2 children or if I'll be at work. I do feel that now that I am aware of the complications of a UTI, I know I can be more vigilant about it. There are just a lot of what ifs. I feel like maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a back up plan though. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
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She will eventually need a nursing home because she will require more care than you can provide, when you reach that point is a very personal decision based on your specific needs and beliefs. There are those who will wonder why you ever considered having her live with you in the first place and at the opposite end of the spectrum those who would sacrifice their health, wealth and sanity trying to keep someone out of a nursing home - most of us on aging care fall somewhere in between. I think you need to sit down and rationally plan for every possible eventuality (sundowning and combativeness, sleep disturbances, incontinence, help with ADLs, frailty, etc) and decide for yourself where your line in the sand is drawn.
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Spaulding18 Aug 2018
Thank you. I appreciate your answer and I agree it is best to have a plan for everything.
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"She ran out of the house with a safety pin and a pair of fingernail clippers..."

Where was your toddler during this incident? How terrifying and baffling for a small child. I understand that grandma was treated for a UTI after this incident but unfortunately dementia doesn't get better, it gets worse. And she will probably have another UTI eventually -- what if she freaks out and feels the need to defend herself from your child when your back is turned away for a moment?

Seems to me this situation is no longer appropriate for your family. Your children come first.
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Spaulding18 Aug 2018
Thankfully my husband was home and was able to tend to my toddler. I think that's why I'm struggling so much with this and decided to ask this question on this forum. I have nightmares about something happening to my children especially when we have a newborn on our hands. Thank you for giving me your input. There are a lot of what ifs on both ends of the spectrum for me. My children do come first but, my grandma is important too.
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When my mother had urinary tract infections, she became combative and paranoid like Grandma. At one point, she lashed out at me in the hospital and clawed my arm. I still have the scar. The nurse was right there and couldn’t grab her in time. I was a grown woman, crying in the ER of the hospital, because my “mommy” attacked me and I needed bandaging. What if I’d been a toddler or a defenseless newborn? People with dementia can be jealous and impulsive. What if the baby’s crying upsets Grandma and causes her to act out against the baby?

It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself that Grandma isn’t really “that bad”. Well, my mom had chronic urinary tract infections and became combative whenever she had one. As adults, we were wary and vigilant, but a toddler... As SnoopyLove writes, this situation doesn’t come and go. It will get worse. It would be a shame if some tragic event had to happen to cause you to seek out a facility. What is the reason why you, at your young age, have been charged with this responsibility? Did you accept without knowing what it would involve or were you made to feel you “had” to do it? If no one else wants the responsibility of caring for Grandma, you are well within your rights to research facilities and place her.
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My first question is where your parents, I mean your grandma's son or daughter? What are they doing and why its YOU and not them took the grandma?
I have the same hard dilemma (but I am a daughter, not a granddaughter) with my mom, who has stubborn dementia, bad esophagus, should not eat solid food, but never listened to me and that's went to aspiration pneumonia and feeding tube. now she is eating puree food and doing OK in rehab, but I am almost sure that if I ll bring her home she ll start eating solid foods and everything repeats in a week. So I am crying every day but looking for a good NH, actually found one but there is waiting list. But my kids are grown up and I have no idea how its possible to take care of dementia (even mild) person with 2 toddlers???
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If you can do it, then probably the minute you are feeling too overwhelmed or having any kind of notable health/emotional issues from it. Why suffer through it?
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I wonder if you might feel better about the possibility of moving your grandmother into residential care once you have a much clearer picture of where that might be. Tackle it from the other end, if you like.

Since the safety pin/escape incident has been definitively chalked up to the u.t.i. and therefore isn't related to her mild dementia, you do have a little time in hand. So use it to do a thorough job of research, aiming to find a place that will meet your grandmother's long-term needs and allow you to maintain a close, supportive relationship with her.

At the moment, assuming that your grandmother is generally competent, you will need her agreement to move her into care. But for one thing that won't always be true, and for another, more important thing, her chances of enjoying a good quality of life will be hugely improved if she's fully functioning when she arrives.

What I'm getting at is that this decision is not only about your capabilities or even your children's environment. It can be an active, positive choice to provide your grandmother with the right setting for her individual needs - which would not be the standard family home with untrained caregivers and small children underfoot.

Drop the guilt, and focus instead on what is really best for her. Best of luck, let us know how you're getting on.
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Just a thought on the UTI delirium...there are preventative antibiotics that may be an option for your grandmother. My mil had reoccurring UTIs, once it led to sepsis and totally changed her mental state. Since her doctor put her on a daily antibiotic she has not had any UTIs.
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I wanted to add one more consideration. My 88-year-old mom is in AL because of mid-state dementia, and after the trauma of moving her into the facility, in about two weeks, she was loving all the companionship of friends about her age. She met and made good friends with another woman, and they spend the days doing the many activities (movies, concerts, games, art) together at the AL facility. And the CNAs at the AL could not be more caring and loving. If you find an active, good place, it can be not a place to "dump" her but a new "apartment" of her own. My mom has never been happier. Family visits can be fun, and you can take grandma out for a special lunch or dinner. AL can be the positive outcome you want for everyone.
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As your Grandmother's condition progresses, these incidents will increase and she will require more supervision. I am not an advocate for nursing homes but with both of you working, you will need to have someone to care for her and watch her carefully full time. My mother lives with us and has Alzheimer's. She often just sits or sleeps, but we never know when something might happen that needs our attention. That's why you will have to consider what to do when you are at work. Also, with a toddler and one on the way, are you 'up' to caring for your grandmother as well? At some point, you won't be able to. What if you are changing the baby and your grandma runs out the door? There are lots of 'what ifs' that can occur (and often DO) when you least expect it. Just like with children, the elderly require us to be available and at the ready in case there is an emergency. We often have to drop everything to run to their aid. Emotional outbursts are very common and become increasingly dangerous. I suggest that you talk to your grandma's doctor and seek advice from the doctor and also a social worker who might be able to assist with your decision.
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This is never an easy decision to make. I almost look forward to a hospital stay because I feel a social worker would help with decision making. With a new baby and 2.5 yr old your plate will be beyond full. Your patience level will be through the roof. Up at night with the baby and making time for 2.5 yo and husband, will surely will make it unbearable at times. You need to weigh your options . I personally would opt for placement . I’m going through the same thing except it’s my husband.
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First of all if you have the time do your research. A small residential group home is less expensive and was perfect for my husband. Dementia patients do better in a small calm environment. Don’t get “sold” on all the amenities. They don’t care if there are linen tablecloths or all the WiFi devices; watch how they care for people. Check that they are licensed and certified. You can look online for complaints. Those can be red flags. Visit with someone who has a LO at the facility and get their feedback. Group homes also are less likely to have staff turnover which is HUGE with someone who has dementia. Also get power of attorney and her living will in effect. Maybe see an elder law attorney to see if she qualifies for Medicaid or other assistance. Group homes also tend to be one inclusive price where assisted living facilities tack on all sorts of extra costs. Do your homework and good luck. You can be a loving granddaughter again and not an exhausted caregiver.
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geevesnc Aug 2018
Small residential group homes in my area are double the price of assisted living. There are so few available, as well. It's really sad.
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just putting my step dad in a NH and my mom I currently in their home . I would say mid stage , I live an hr away , I ck on her , have some family ck on her and that’s the best I can do for now ( she refuses to come stay with me ) til I get her husbands sutuation straightened out . She holds her own , good days / bad days . I’m thinking AL within the year . As with having to move them somewhere - it’s about them getting the care they really need and their safety . I work , I have a 15 yr old , I have little help . I know moving will be hard on my mom but I really believe she would benefit from socialization and activities that I can’t provide . There’s financial hurdles but there are options . Good luck to you and take care of you and your babies
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I didn't. I kept my DH ambulatory until the last 3 days when he was finally given home hospice.

Sometimes it's a personal choice.
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Your kindness to your LO is amazing. I am more than twice your your age with college aged kids and I could not do what you are doing and having babies! I took my mother in and after 5 years she did go to a nursing home. Right now it all seems overwhelming, but definately the better choice for care would be a NH. The stress on you and your marriage will be too much. Take one step at a time and start looking and asking agencies who can assist and begin the process. It takes time, so start now. Everyone adjusts, I promise. Your grandmother's symptoms will worsen and UTI's will return and the loving care you want to give is just not enough. Please put your family first and move your grandmother. You will still be able to care for her there without the live in stress of caregiving. God Bless.
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It's a personal choice. I'm keeping my mum at home and she's under Palliative/Hospice until she dies. If you can't cope you should put her in a nursing home--especially you have 2 young children.
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Im taking care of my husband ,and our toughest times of him going downhill [SADLY] is when our three grandsons are here the confusion of change and kids loud playing there 2. 4 7 boys my world would be totally empty without them they are my sunshine . or when they misbehave as much as he loves them hurts him mentally . I agree this is too much to ask of yourself at your age and your husband and trying to balance it all find her a place like the other person said a residence that goes into full time care with people her age she can relate too . Im 62 gave up my job married 43 years but this becomes a full time job ,This happen to my husband after we moved in and took care of his two parents for 5 year;s till they passed at 92 one did have to go to nursing home . Get power of attorney, or does her kids have it . You will be doing her a favor and it doesnt mean grandma cant visit on weekends or have her to dinner or bring her in for holidays you all can still be part of her life.Im sure there are other family that would do the same ,Just my two cents. sue
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My grandmother just had a uti but refusing all types of help in the rehab it was a very hard decision to make being she is not gonna be able to handle the in house caregiver in her house if she was to come home .she is now going to be long term in the facility best thing is to get a elder care lawyer to deal with her finances. And to sort out everything else good luck and keep us updated
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Please put you and your family first. So nice of you to have her for this time, but her condition will only continue to worsen and I believd your priorities need to be your children and your husband.

Best to find that best quality memory care facility she can afford now and relocate her. She will hatd it for a while, but she will be safe and have more professional support than family can provide. If you are not POA for health care and/or property, then work with whoever is to relocate her.

Once she is relocated, you, the kids and hubby can visit frequently and at the same time preserve the joy of living your young family life .

Please do not let her condition keep you and yours hostage to her condition. It will soon feel like that and it will get far,far worse.

You are a loving granddaughter and have been generous.
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I would say that when your LO NEEDS more vigilance and effort than you are able or willing to provide in the circumstances then it is time. But a NH will not solve all of your caring problems. It will solve some and create some new ones. There is no single satisfactory solution to the problems of dementia, sad to say.
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The time is now. There is no improvement in dementia, it only gets worse. You will not be able to care for a newborn and a young child and hold down a job AND take care of your grandmother. Kudos to you for your devotion to her wellbeing. She won the lottery in having a granddaughter like you!
If your grandmother's finances permit, call around to assisted living/memory care communities near you. They are MUCH less expensive than a nursing home and your grandmother doesn't sound like she needs medical care. She needs support with activities of daily living, social engagement with peers, and an environment that will keep her safe and set your mind at ease. All that spells AL/MC. She may be able to start off in AL (if that running out of the house episode was entirely due to her UTI).
Expect the initial transition to be a little rough (dementia can make it hard to adapt to new environments for some). Hang in there. It will be OK.
Visit an elder law attorney (not just any attorney) and talk about your grandmother's finances and the best way to plan for her care now and in the future.
You obviously love and respect your grandmother, but you're in charge now.
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It is a very difficult decision to make when our loved onessuffer with dementia but there comes a time when we have to think of our own health both mentally and physically. I have been in this situation also. You should now think of what is best for your health and how is this trying to cope affecting your family. Once you make the decision it will be so much easier to visit Grandma and there are ways to take her out sometimes for a treat. It is hard at first because we are caring people and feel "guilty" that we cant cope but in time I have found it is a new way of life and the most sensible move to make. The Social Service people are very helpful and will come to your home to make an assessment of Grandmas needs etc.and help you along. Hope Ive helped you a bit. Going through all this has given me the understanding of your feelings. I was once told that if we dont look after our own self --we cant be any help to our loved ones.
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Spaulding 18, please have her assessment done by Nurse — I think it’s a PRI or have her stay in hospital for 3 days & then have her placed in SNF. You are PREGNANT!!! & have a small child so your primary responsibility is with them. You will have a miscarriage if you keep her with you! You don’t want that. This demon called dementia gets so much worse; you can’t even imagine. I’m 59 & caring for my 91 yo mom w dementia/Alzheimer’s & even though I’m in pretty good health & shape, I feel the effects...headaches, neck pain & basically no life. She is uncooperative w everything. She can’t walk or stand without the lift machine. She was in nursing home & I discharged her 16.5 months ago. She gets combative w hitting, punching, scratching & hair pulling. She even stabbed me w her fork. The police came & she turned it around & said I tried to kill her..a police report was required to be filed. I had no choice but to call emergency since she was going berserk. I’ve since increased her meds & she’s calmer, but the evil demon can reappear at any time. Please do yourself a favor & have her placed in a nursing home & after Medicare & secondary insurance runs the course, file for Medicaid at the nursing home office. If you use an elder attorney instead, they will rob you blind. So use Medicaid office. That’s my advice to you if you were my daughter. Hugs 🤗 to you.
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Your first duty is to your children & you being so stressed won't help them at all - secondly if she was some place with others her own age she might blossom doing activities designed for her age group like listening to 40's music - my mom went to at least 1 activity a day & was more social than before because of the extra interaction

I personally wouldn't trust her near a newborn & neither should you as you would be on pins & needles worrying about another UTI

You need rest not stress as this can affect the baby long term - check it out because this type of stress can be as harmful to an unborn baby as drinking while you are pregnant
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Although placing Mom in NH was a very difficult decision for me to make emotionally, mentally and spiritually...

I knew the moment had already passed when both my husband and I began getting physically sick - him, began having high blood pressure and now is on meds, and me, I could no longer sleep deeply nor rest during the day and I got sick from exhaustion. I then had to choose between giving her constant care and our long term health and ability to work - her needs or our life.
I was also at a point when I knew I could no longer sustain the situation for her benefit nor ours.

That day, although I wisely chose our life and health, was one of the hardest for me to take action upon. A year and a half later I am glad for all our sake, although my heart wishes I could still take care of her. I go visit now 2-3 times a week and can spend quality time with Mom.
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Hi,

Sounds like you have a lot on your plate! That is a lot to take on with you being pregnant & you have another little one & working full time! It is always difficult to make that decision. First, I am guessing your parents are not in the picture, do you have any other siblings? Second, does grandma have the funds for a NH? Just letting you know, it is a LOT of work if Medicaid is needed, it can be a full time job in itself! You can always talk to her doctor and see what they think. My mother was deemed as needing 24 hour care and that is when I had to make the decision to place her. She says she is lonely & bored, but it is better for her & me & my family that she is somewhere safe, gets fed 3 meals and has many activities to fill up her days. (not that she remembers them ) : ) Safety was a big issue for me as well, she wanted me to continue taking care of her at home,but I can't be there 24 hours a day, and you are still young and have a lot going on in your life.

Best of luck - don't let the guilt control any decision you need to make, write down pros & cons and put your emotions aside. : )
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With my situation with my mother, we kept her at home until she was bed ridden. As long as we could get her from her recliner lift chair...to the wheel chair... and then to the toilet, we kept her at home. When she could no longer do that, she needed to go to the nursing home. Mostly because I felt terrible that my husband was the one that had to help me change her, clean her up, and move her in the bed. That also meant to two people had to be here at all times... no more "one person" help.
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With my situation with my mother, we kept her at home until she was bed ridden. As long as we could get her from her recliner lift chair...to the wheel chair... and then to the toilet, we kept her at home. When she could no longer do that, she needed to go to the nursing home. Mostly because I felt terrible that my husband was the one that had to help me change her, clean her up, and move her in the bed. That also meant to two people had to be here at all times... no more "one person" help.
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