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Mom's health and mental ability have declined dramatically over the past 6 months. She lives with us and I have been doing everything for her, and she has gotten to the point where she says things that make no sense, says she can't walk then gets out of bed every 30 minutes and falls and moans and cries very loudly because she cannot get herself either to the bathroom or into her bed (right next door to the bathroom).
Last weekend she fell 4 times, the 4th time hitting her head and bleeding so we called the paramedics (she is on blood thinners and there was a LOT of bleeding) who took her to the hospital.
We told the social worker there that we just cannot do this any more. We are totally burnt out, cannot go anywhere together (one of us has to be there so she doesn't burn down the house or fall), and I cannot lift her from the ground so I have to keep calling my husband at work to run home and help. Employers will only stand for that for so long. We need to save some kind of $ for retirement- we have nothing and are in our 60's. I need to be able to work. Mom needs more care than I can physically and mentally give.
She was released to a rehab place for 5 days from the hospital. She calls and tells my husband she hates him and says the NH is telling her she is doing great and should be able to go home soon. But she just can't do it here. We just can't. We have no help, and she is abusive and manipulative and cruel while being sweet and kind to everyone else. I literally start to tear up and panic thinking of her returning to my house, she is so very mean. Will mess up her meds on purpose to make it look like I am not sorting them right. Will stop injecting her insulin so she can cause yet another 'emergency.' She has loud shouting ranting meltdowns and has swung at me (when I refused to let her do laundry at 3:30 am- husband works at 5 and she is LOUD - suddenly ABLE to walk???) and tells my husband she would like to kill him. It is hell. I don't know what the neighbors think at this point. It is making it difficult to even live here and we are actually considering selling our house.


My question is this - do we HAVE to let her return to our home? If we refuse to let her return, will that force her to make other arrangements, or can she force her way back? The doctors are saying she is of sound mind. If only they knew!!!
Despite all of this, we would like to see her in a place where she will get the care and attention she needs. But she will not give a POA to us, siblings want nothing to do with her, and we feel just flat out helpless and abused by the whole situation. If you have ever dealt with a narcissist, you understand that this is something she will feel she needs to 'win' at all cost so she can come home and passively make us do this, do EVERYTHING for her. One of her favorite retaliations is to shove things down the toilet to make a huge mess for us to clean up or not take her meds. Whatever she can still find to do to have some sort of power.


We have a phone meeting with the NH this afternoon. What should we be doing? Thanks in advance, I have been reading a lot in this forum and it is so good to know we are not completely alone in this. It amazes me how some think that all older people are sweet and kind and appreciative etc... not all of us are living that. It feels like we don't have control of our own home or our own lives. There is no peace. I think over 20 years is enough. Am I wrong?

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I think you've gotten some great advice here and it sounds like you're on the right road to getting her placed (thank God). I just wanted to share a link with you.........about a personality disorder called "covert passive-aggressive narcissism" which fits my 93 y/o mother to a TEE, Plus she also suffers from dementia. Truly a HUGE mess when you combine ALL of those things together into a giant molotov cocktail!!! The article was hugely eye opening for me and I was finally able to identify that all these issues I've been dealing with for 63 years are HERS, not mine. You may see YOUR mother in these examples. Hope it helps you the way it did me:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201811/7-ways-identify-passive-aggressive-narcissist

I don't know HOW you've handled the woman in your home for 20 years..........I'd have shot myself if I had to do it. My mother has been in Assisted Living (and now Memory Care) since 2014 and I'd have it NO other way. The two of us living together would never, ever work out. I think it's time for you to throw in the towel and start YOUR life now. You and your husband have suffered enough.

Best of luck!
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I do not know all the answers but will say the following: First of all, IMMEDIATELY make up your mind YOU are NOT going to continue to take care of her - cost is too great to you and her behavior is unacceptable. Seek professional help "how to" do this. Stress her safety and what could happen to her. Professionals understand that and will listen. They will NOT listen to you telling how it is affecting you (they know but don't care). Just make the arrangements and figure out how to get her where she is going - let a professional handle the move and tell her - and then keep your distance until she adjusts. Be as tough as nails and do NOT give in to her demands - unless you want to be totally destroyed.
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It looks like you are headed down the best path for resolve here but I wanted to point out something I feel is important.

The 20 years you have been caring for her have nothing to do with it, enough or not. She has reached a point in her medical (physical and mental) need where your family is unable to provide what she needs on your own. She needs more professional care that you could t provide even if you and your husband stopped working and were home full time, that’s not your fault and it’s not Moms fault, no guilt it’s just where your all at now.
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You must take care of YOU, else you may fall faint and ill. Consider facility living for mom. As you have nothing financially, it is imperative that you start saving now. Better late than never.
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I think that you should be honest with the nursing home and see if there is any possibility for long term placement. Now would be the time to do it. The social worker at the facility should be able to provide direction as well as support. I would definitely emphasize that you cannot safely care for her at home given her fall risk. I would also share that you are suffering from caregiver burn out. The current home situation is not good for any of you. It will be painful to place her but for her and your health and safety, it is the best way to proceed.
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I am assuming she is in a rehab bed because of her fall. Ask the social worker at the nursing home if she can be transferred to self-pay or medicaid bed once she is released from the rehab care. They can help you start the process to apply for Medicaid - depending on her income and certain assets, she may pay for the NH for a period of time and when that runs out, be eligible for the Medicaid (state paid) bed. Start it now, so she transitions from where she is now because going from home to NH is more difficult. You should probably tell her doctor that you plan to move her to NH because of the level of care she needs now and get his input on how he can help with documentation.
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She's fallen 4 times in a weekend. It's over, she can't stay there. Not so easy, I know, and probably no money for assisted living. And no one will want her because it'll be the same thing in assisted living or wherever else she might go.

I know what I did with my mother but she was a lot more pliable and trusted me.

But, one thing you need to do, immediately, is document everything, date, time, duration, medical usage, when she does and doesn't, etc. (get free evernote or some sort of note app). Might be time to break out the video on the phone but that can be a double-edged sword depending on what she's doing and how you react to it.

If you can, get the medical evaluations as Elaine pointed out. It'll be obvious to them and they're more dispassionate than you are. I know I missed the initial signs with my mother, although, admittedly here, it's writ large for all to see.

Also, a book called "Elder Rage" seems appropriate.

https://www.amazon.com/Elder-Rage-Take-Father-Please/dp/0967970318

Good luck.

Edit: As much of a pain in the ass as my father can be, man, I'm fortunate because he's done nothing like this.
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Her behaviors indicate she has mental illness according to the terrible things she is doing. Talk to her doctor and he can have her evaluated for dementia and she would stay in facility during this time. Mom did. She can be moved to nursing home after they are finished. A case worker at the hospital’s evaluation section can help you place her. They will figure her out pretty fast. Mom was on the mental ward of the hospital during her evaluation.
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I would not tell the social worker that you can't do it anymore because you can't go out together, that will get noted and cause you problems.

You need to tell them that she is not safe at home and that you can not safely care for her because she is always falling.

I would have a serious talk about stuffing items down the toilet to punish you. That would get a child spanked and then the bathroom would never be private again, I watch you and then the door gets locked so you can't ruin my house.

Why has your mom lived with you for 20 years? Just curious about the dynamics of the relationship.
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elaineSC Apr 2020
Good answer/advice.
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Very difficult situation indeed!
What happens if you yourself was sick?
Mentally or physically?
Let's say you were dx'ed with something or your hubby became ill..
Personally, I would simply tell NH
things have changed & you are on verge of breakdown. Plz h.e.l.p us find housing.
It may not be 100% true but, they will work with you.
Goodluck
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I really do believe so called meds cause dementia if taken long term. Age has little or nothing to do with it. Everybody should avoid ever taking metfrormin, statins, biophosphonates, diuretics, or narcotics; also avoid so called antidepressants. The poor woman described is obviously not in her right mind. I am 86, strong, healthy, med free, and pain free. i am very independent and have never yet had to call on anybody for help. i hope I never become narcississitic. My poor daughter is only 65 and is no longer n her right mind.I believe so called meds have brain damaged her. Doctors need to quit prescribing bad substances and patients need to do more research.
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elaineSC Apr 2020
I believe what you said. My mother was on all kinds of medications for years with crippling rheumatoid arthritis and I truly believe those meds made her mind 10 times worse due to long term use. Some family members don’t realize that some meds are addictive and they might take them away to try something else and then that parent goes into withdrawal and family thinks it is mental illness/dementia.
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As others have said, do not allow the nursing home to discharge your mother to your care. They cannot discharge her unless they have somewhere safe for her to go. You have to hang in there, though. Do not explain beyond a statement of fact. Simply say, there is no one who can meet her care needs at home. The will have to find a placement for her. You will be involved in that decision even though you don’t have POA (unless she expressly forbids your involvement).

The rest depends upon your mothers finances. If she has no money, the nursing home will help you to get her qualified for Medicaid, or if she does have money, she would stay on private pay or you could look at assisted-living for her. An AL would be much less expensive (which will make her money last longer) and a much less medical environment.

Not all nursing homes except Medicaid. If your moms does not they will offer choices of nursing homes where she could go.
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No, you are not required to care for any adult over the age of 21 unless you have been appointed as their "legal guardian."

As you noted, she is doing destructive things just to have a sense of power.

Time to set boundaries and get her OUT of your house for everyone's safety!

Unless she has been "paying rent" to you, she is not a tenant. She is a parasite.
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Laws of your state will be a critical factor so you should consult an attorney. Since she has lived there 20 years, she might be regarded as a tenant and you may have to follow certain rules to evict her. Laws regarding the elderly also need to be considered. Find a lawyer who is versed in both aspects of the law.
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It sounds like progress is being made in placing your mother in a NH or AL. A much better solution for you and your husband. Your mother may complain and make accusations, but you and your husband need to preserve your own health and sanity.
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If the nursing home or social workers try to make you take her home insist that she be sent to a 'behavioral center' for an evaluation. We had my mother for 10 yrs, We did not realize that she had narcissistic personality disorder, until someone on this forum mentioned it. I always knew that my mother was a very self-centered person, but had never actually paid any attention to what a narcissist is. We made arrangements for her to enter the behavioral center, and told her it was a doctors appointment. When we arrived at the facility she saw a brochure in the rack near where she was sitting, and had a meltdown right there in front of them all. She was there for two weeks,-------was evaluated by their phychiatrist, and therapist. She was diagnosed with several disorders. While she was there, my husband and I made arrangements for her to be transported to an assisted living facility upon discharge. Mother is nearly 98 yrs old. Dad was active duty army durring WW11, therefore she qualifies for veteran widows benefits, which helps pay for the A.L. She is not very happy with us at this time, but we are taking care of her, AND, ourselves.
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Absolutely not if you did not sign up to be her guardian. Tell her she needs to go somewhere else.
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Thank you all for taking the time to respond and advise. Your advice has been eye-opening and supportive, to say the least. God bless each of you!! The hospital discharged her to a NH, and we have been coordinating with them, letting them know we cannot allow her back, and that we have no POA. They have a Medicaid specialist we will be sitting down with or conference calling with later this week. They are telling us they deal with this all the time and that things should work out smoothly once she is out of cash and applies. If there is something I need to be careful of in this, your advice would again be much appreciated. Mom was admitted without our having to sign anything promissory, a true miracle.

Yesterday we had a conference call from the NH we were able to place her in, and the nurse said that Mom has dementia. We recorded the call, so I have that on record. Mom called my husband at work yesterday to let him know that he is no longer her son and to please have her daughter call. When her daughter called, she experienced some 'out there' conversation for herself, and is very supportive of us which is a huge help to my husband's resolve that he did the right thing for her. People at his workplace have been supportive too, with many telling us they can't believe we lasted this long. We will probably have the state appoint someone to oversee her care and bow out of everything. Fortunately I researched and found we reside in a non filial state. The NH is being helpful, as far as we can tell, although the phone calls to my husband during work needs to stop. Obviously she has some nurse bamboozled into thinking that is ok and has her sympathy. We will have to stop answering for our own mental health.

We didn't realize the level of anxiety we were living in until during this past week on our own. It is still very hard to relax in any way (CV-19 is still lurking and my husband is deemed 'essential'). We haven't mastered that skill yet. But we have faith it is coming. The thought of actually doing things together once this season passes is very surreal, seeming almost too much to hope for. Still walking on eggshells and waiting for the other shoe to drop. When does that subside?
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Daughterof1930 Apr 2020
The nursing home my mother was in had a business manager who was well versed in the Medicaid application process. After my mother was private pay and her long term care policy ran out, the business manager walked us through the Medicaid process at no charge. Please don’t pay anything of your own money toward your mother’s care, use only her money, including selling anything of value she has. After that spenddown of her assets Medicaid will happen.
And you’re very right in not accepting the angry phone calls. I wish you peace as you reclaim your lives
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I hear you - I'm burned out! And this lockdown is not helping. My mom has lived with me off/on for 20 years too! I'm an idiot to have allowed this. She's stolen the best years of my life - at the least my youth. My father was an alcoholic - who died at 68 and left her nothing because he had no insurance. She moved in with me and I was only 23 and just getting started in life. I gave up my room to her and slept on a couch...for 4 years! We were strapped for money but over the years I worked my way up and she moved out and back to her hometown. Then she would come to see me every other weekend - even if I had plans. Yes she had a key...MY BAD. I bought a house and she quickly stated she could rent a room. I felt sorry for her and felt she deserved some happiness so I stupidly let her move in....bad decision. After only 3 months she literally turned into Attila the Hun! Complaining about everything - while I was working full-time, over-time and trying to get the house and yard going. I was perplexed by her behavior. Well it took me 40 years to figure out she is a narcissistic mother. I came across an article and bing...bing....bing...she literally fit every trait. She always competed with me - criticized me - I could never do enough. Well she's back with me again for the last 3 years. I can't help it but I'm ready for her to go back to her hometown and stay there. I've realized we will never have the loving mother-daughter relationship I so desired. I do not need her approval any longer - I have set myself free. When she says she can't understand me because of the way I talk I come back with she needs to get a hearing aid! The only reason she wants to under my feet is to have some weird control over me and my life. Even commented that I spend too much money and I could quit my job. I guess so I can take care of her? Nope. I don't know why the universe keeps slamming us together but I'm basically DONE. I'm tired, feel almost nothing towards her. YES I'm sounding like a horrible person. But I equate it to a dog. A dog loves unconditionally, no matter what, is loyal BUT if you keep scolding the dog, and or kicking the dog - the dog will leave and NOT return. That's where I'm at right now. So glad I'm deemed essential and can still go to work - If not I would be going bonkers being around her depressing, doom and gloom nature. Made worse by the pandemic. Ugh Peace and light to all caretakers.
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Daughterof1930 Apr 2020
Texas, you know this is toxic don’t you? Even with the emotional distancing you’ve done, you’re living with tension and resentment of the highest order. It can’t be good for your health. I hope you’ll gather the courage to have mom move out, no matter the excuses, you need peace, and I truly wish it for you
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You deserve a medal, 20 years of care in your home for a narcissist. If you have never lived with one you cannot possibly know what its like. My Mother doesn't live with us but she lives round the corner, my husband said if she ever moved in with us he would move out. My comment was I would be right behind you.
What is so annoying about them is they are sooooo charming to everyone else but absolutely foul to you. My Mother has divided my children by moaning about me and my husband, that we never do enough, now she has dementia and my daughter 9who lives 350 miles away) says I am not doing enough to care for her. Quite frankly the way she has treated me over the years and her continual sniping and trying to run my life, she is lucky I even speak to her let alone care for her, but I am an only child.
Stick to your guns, you deserve some time for yourselves, prison sentences are not even that long. I bet your narcissist Mum didn't look after her parents and has never done anything for anyone else without some payback.
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The one piece of leverage I see, especially since she has called your place home for 20 years, is that she threatened violence toward your husband. Tell the SW that, not only is she unsafe in the discharge, but that she is threatening violence, and you are both no longer safe in your home if she returns.

I would also definitely seek the advice of an attorney. With no POA and a doctor that says she is competent, you may have to do more than say unsafe discharge to get her into a more appropriate setting and out of your home.

But, I would hold my line VERY firm with the SW at the rehab and with your mother. Stay calm. Do not get sucked into self-defense mode.

Best wishes... you are in a very rough spot.
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It’s your home 🏡 just say no there’s nobody to take care of her there. You refuse. Period Hugs 🤗
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You do NOT have to let you mother come back to live with you. Start talking to social work that you and your husband are unable to care for her any longer. Let your LO know that you are unable to care for her any longer. Social work can help make arrangements for your LO for nursing home placement. It seems she needs more help than assisted living.

When your LO throws a fit - and she probably will - explain that her care has gotten to the place that she needs round the clock care with people who are stronger, available 24/7, and can make sure that her medications/treatments are completed.
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Because we feel sorry for our LO, sometimes we tend to forget how awful it was with them in our home while they're somewhere else. Add that to the guilt inducing pressure from the hospital or NH which is trying to MAKE us take them back again, and too many caregivers give up and do it. Within a week we are living in hell as usual. Please hold firm to your convictions that bringing her back to your home will be bad (again) for all of you..... remind yourself that it is entirely possible she will actually do better elsewhere.
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This is so difficult. I had my mother in law move in with us and it was horrible. My husband started looking for an apartment to rent for himself he was so stressed out in his own house.
My sweet teenage son, who loved his grandmother, insisted we tell her to find a home for her dog because it was so unruly and my mother in law wouldn't take responsibility for it or anything. Went to counseling for that and the counselor said it was our house and she had to be respectful and follow our rules.

Right, to everyone else she was sweet and outgoing, but ungrateful, angry, demanding etc. to us. I could go on and on, you get the point.

Next time she goes to the hospital, and she is there for I believe, 48 or 72 hrs, you have to tell them you don't have a safe place for her. They have to find housing for her. They can take her social security, and money she has, and give her an allowance. They may argue with you and push you. But be kind to your mother, and kind to them and tell them we don't have a safe place for her. Which is true.
She needs help and safety and someone to be home with her all of the time.

You cannot supervise by yourself, true? Your husband has to leave work to pick her up off the floor. Her meds put her in an emergency situation, and you can't manage her insulin.

You don't have to explain all this necessarily. It's for her own safety though. She is going to hurt herself falling down.

Hang in there, you're not alone. I felt the same way. Not everyone should move their parent in with them. I even looked up advice on forums then went on the ignore them.

Someone else can be their caretaker and you can be her daughter and visit her once a week or twice a month, whichever takes care of your mental health and marriage.

Seek counseling about Boundaries if you need to.
Be well, with love,
gratefultoday
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The social worker should be able to help you find a AL place for your mom .Your situation is unbearable .The timing will be bad because of the virus , but they should be able to place her , and give you peace of mind .
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I agree, tell the Social Worker that at this point, you can no longer care for her. You both have to work and can't afford caregivers. They need to evaluate her for Long Term Care.

The problem you have is no POA to be able to force the issue if she is incompetent. The only other thing is allow the state to take over her care and they will set up a guardian. You may want to tell Mom this. If she doesn't allow you POA then the state will be responsible for her care. Tell the SW Mom has a personality disorder. That you metally cannot take it anymore. You too are a senior.
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Your over 20 years is going to be a problem.

Because your home has been your mother's home for that long... I have absolutely no idea what the legalities are in this situation, none.

Does she have any other home belonging to her? Any property anywhere, anywhere that you could claim as her place of permanent residence?

You can't go on, no, of course not; this is long, long past the point of enough. But I think you're going to need legal advice about what to do. Do you know where you can get some?
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Alicew234 Apr 2020
But she isn't safe in that home unless cricketsong and her husband agree to continue caring for her. This isn't like a regular tenant situation. She is not living independently and their home is not a safe discharge. Repeat frequently.
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Yes to all that Ahmijoy and MammaDrama said! Now realize that the NH may try to bully you into taking her back. Stand firm. And do NOT fall for anything like, "We'll keep an eye out for a place for her, but it will take a while. If you take her home, we will 'work on' trying to find a place ASAP." Because they WILL NOT DO THAT. Once you take her home, she is no longer their responsibility. Also realize it is easier for them if you take her home. Make the SW or case manager earn their money and make THEM find a place for her.

You've done enough. More than enough. Good luck, and keep us updated!
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You can’t keep her safe at home anymore. Ask for a social worker and repeatedly say you “can’t keep her safe” at home. She falls. She hits her head. She is a danger to herself and you. Safe is a trigger work that should start the ball in motion for a social worker or hospital to help you place her in a care facility. 20 years is more than enough. No healthy, loving parent would put a child through that.
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