I am 60 Mom is 85. Both of my other siblings died last August. I left my job and asked my fiance to give me a couple months to get this taken care of so Mom will be okay. Its now June. I'm stuck. I mean really stuck. Mom refuses to allow anyone in the house. She is not able to get herself to the bathroom or make meals. If I leave she will be alone, if I stay I will continue to resent her and the fact that I no longer have my own stability at my age. She even refuses to take a bath. Before my brothers both died they told me she hasn't been in the bath for a shower for over a year. She hasn't left the house in 7 years. The last time she was outside was over 5 years ago. Mom lives in Illinois and my home and my family is in Wisconsin. So what can I do without hurting Mom's health or me ending up charged with something?
Many things someone with dementia make no sense & they won’t remember what they said 5 min later. My mother just told me I’m old enough to move out...(Im 60) ..I told her my job now is taking care of you...she said she can take care of herself..( she can’t walk or stand, incontinent, & don’t remember her or my name at times...& she sometimes gets violent).
Hugs 🤗
Last year she had two carers & could walk. This year, a temporary carer (you) & she can't walk. That's a big change.
*Mother can't look after herself*. That's the problem.
I would book that Doctor (who she lets in) for a home visit. Let the Doctor see her in her own environment. Explain her problem - note *Mother's problem*. Explain you live in Wisconsin. That you are with your Mother TEMPORARILY & will be returning home. Go from there.
What would Mother prefer - a nursing home in Illinois or Wisconsin near you?
Was one of your siblings living with her or close by for daily help?
Or was she alone but now that you've seen up close what's going on, your conscience says you can't leave her this way?
I wanted to say you are not the only one who has stepped in to help but found the needs were too deep - bottomless even. You've found yourself living your Mother's life but at 60 you have hopefully many decades to enjoy!
I know nothing about legal matters but am trying to learn so for 'fun' I have been reading my states Guardianship cases. They are available online (no names). Many many cases of elders wanting to remain in their home but unable to cope. Seemed mostly, the medical professional opinions held great weight. The court wants *least restrictive measure* first so evidence of this was sought. Eg if unable to cook/use bathroom unaided then home care was trialed. If this was refused/ they were locked out/the service quit due to unsafe working conditions, then an application for Guardionship was sought. Sometimes a concerned relative was the applicant, sometimes a hospital or nursing home. Neuro assessments were a requirement.
Has Mom had a recent medical assessment at all? Does her Doctor know her level of function?
Unfortunate as it is, POAs are not documents that allow you to force someone to do something they don't want to do, including bringing in aides or moving. Some people think they are, and it is their big push, but they are not intended to cover this - they only allow you certain capabilities. Our mother developed dementia. In the early stages, I started 1 hr aide visit, just to check on her and her meds (timed/locked dispenser.) The plan was to keep her in her own place as long as possible, increasing aide time and duties as needed. She was still mobile, could do minimal cleaning, and could prepare simple meals (frozen dinners, boxes items, etc.), but we took the car away and she relied mostly on me for shopping. After a few weeks, she refused to let the aides in. Plan B was to move her, but she wanted nothing to do with that. EC atty told us we could NOT force her to move and suggested guardianship. The facility we chose wouldn't accept committals, so we had to fib our way into the move. The point here is that your POAs will not be sufficient to make any changes, either getting aides in or moving her.
Several suggestions have been made, and it can't hurt to explore those - perhaps they can help. If they do, great. If not, I think your only real option is guardianship. It isn't cheap (should come from mom's assets - explore that with EC atty consult.) It won't be pleasant, with her anyway, but the end result would be allowing you to ensure she is in a safe place and is cared for, and allowing you to resume some "normal" life. She may be angry with you for doing this, but given that she really isn't independent, she can't be left alone and you shouldn't have to give up everything to ensure she is cared for.
Others mentioned judges prefer to allow people to maintain some kind of independence. I have read this. To me that would be someone who can get around without help from another person, can prepare meals, get out to shop or order supplies to be delivered. Bad choices would be more like refusing to bathe, clean the house, hoard things, etc. One can still be "independent" while keeping those bad choices. Your mother can't ambulate, can't propel herself, doesn't go out, most likely doesn't prepare meals, so what, if anything, is independent about her life?
Judges will order doctor(s) to examine a person. It should be apparent to any doc with a few brain cells that your mother is NOT independent. I don't think you would have any trouble getting guardianship. The question then becomes do you want to be her guardian? This does NOT mean you have to live with her or her with you! You can also let the state become the guardian, but if you do, you will have no say in where she lives or what becomes of her assets.
While or after exploring the other suggestions, use her zip code to find several EC attys who offer free initial consults at this web site:
www.naela.org (National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys)
Draft all questions and concerns before any consult (may have to be done by phone for now due to virus.) Include Qs about cost and how they can be covered if your mother is low income/little or no assets. If approached as an emergency situation, they may be able to temp place while they go through the process. As the EC atty about that too!
If she voluntarilly goes into a facility she will most likely check herself out. Get your name as co owner of house and be sure it is "either or" so when she is gone you can sell it or keep it. If she does not have any money or has to spend down for medicade get into the nursing plan "return home" or they will consider it a resourse. Shop for attny. fee or look for one to "volunteer" what is needed (you can consult).
When I read your narative it looks like you are able to make this break and take care of youself. Do not let your mother get you into a "victum" mode. When you get focused on your needs you can get her placed after you get "ownership" of house and your legal needs to "place her".
If your fiance is not with you...let him go, he is not worth it. You must be the one who " loves Yoursel"first.
You can not "force" a person to see a doctor, take medication, bathe or do anything against their will. Only after a doctor has certified that this person can not make rational decisions and a judge has declared them incompetent can you admit someone to a facility. This is why it often takes what I call a catastrophic event to put things in motion that will force a change in dynamics.
It can be expensive and time consuming, but this is a case where this may be the only option. Despite comment elsewhere about judges wanting to maintain a person's independence, this woman is most clearly NOT independent. Can't talk, can't propel wheelchair, doesn't get out - how does she get food and who prepares meals if OP isn't there and she won't let aides in? She is in no way independent. Bad choices may be blowing through all finances, not bathing, hoarding, not cleaning the home, etc. This is a case that I think will require guardianship. Any doctor exam ordered by the judge is going to see this woman is NOT independent, not even a smidge!
An attempt to force involuntary conservator will not only be expensive but put the financial liabilities onto the person suing for this.
Yes, to all those saying put her in a home and get on with your life. BUT it is not that easy.
Obviously your mom needs help, dementia or not she is probably depressed with the loss of 2 sons less than a year ago at the very least but it sounds like her issues were in full swing prior to their death as well. I can only speculate that if one or both brothers lived more local to mom and were the ones around physically on a more daily/weekly basis she has some deep fear of loosing her only daughter and living child as well so she’s not even close to behaving rationally. Have you always had POA & MPOA or were you given that after the passing of a brother who had it? Have you taken over the banking and bills, if not maybe do this gently by suggesting and setting up on line banking with her prior to having a home emergency.
Prior to COVID did she leave the house for doctors appointments or is she actually not able to bring herself to step outside at all? My mom for instance prefers being a hermit and not going out, she has always been a bit that way and now is embarrassed and frustrated by her speech issues. She does however look forward to going grocery shopping and when we get her out with family or to doctor appointments she Lies the human interaction and always enjoys herself. But the inability, emotionally which can become physically to step outside at all is a whole different problem and I’m wondering how her doctor is assessing her cognitive ability COPD and other medical issues without actual face to face physical exams. On that note if her COPD is keeping her from being able to walk she probably should be on oxygen and if it has actually been assessed by a doctor as not being to the stage of needing O2 then she is probably doing more harm than good by staying in a wheelchair full time. Again if it’s her breathing that’s actually preventing her from mobility I would think she would be on meds, maybe an inhaler for her COPD to keep her able to walk and get some exercise. Depression may very well be playing a part here as well and of course it’s keeping you there wether she knows thats what she’s doing or not. The more helpless she is the more help you feel you need to provide but that functional help doesn’t need to come from you it’s just comfortable for her and what we really need isn’t always the most comfortable for us at first.
Once you have some of these ducks in order, the ones you are able to get in order you can see what your left with for options. If you have a DPOA or equivalent (varies by state) and meet the peramiters for invoking it (meaning you can make decisions for her benefit even if it isn’t what she wants) then you can force her hand if you choose, doesn’t mean she will cooperate but she doesn’t have to, last resort IMHO. If not and yours is a straight POA and her doctor isn’t on record that she has cognitive impairment you really have no choice but to let her make bad decisions. This does NOT mean you are responsible for them even knowing she will likely harm herself, in fact enabling her may be hurting her more than helping her live. I’m not suggesting just walking out leaving her to her own devices, I’m suggesting you set up all the things you can to help from home with visits and virtual visits, have things she refuses now ready to go, let her decide what help to accept and if it takes a trip to the ER to get her the help she needs, that’s her decision not your fault, you will still be there you aren’t abandoning her but she probably needs some skilled professional help with her emotional state right now. There are geriatric psychiatric or grief counselors, social workers who might be able to help virtually too.
This is not an advertisement for them I just like and trust the people from this organization that I have dealt with.
That aside, if your mom has not been diagnosed with dementia you are in for a tough time trying to "make" her move, accept help or other service she does not want. You could try going the route of trying to get a doctor to say she can not manage on her own and you can try to obtain Guardianship. But judges so not like to take a persons rights away from them, so it might be difficult. And depending on where in Illinois it could get expensive (Cook County particularly, the only court to do this is Downtown.)
If she has not been declared incompetent and she is left on her own you can not be charged with neglect or abuse.
You could also contact a local Senior Center or Illinois Area on Aging and see what help or services they might have.
Guardianship isn't cheap, but it may be one option, one of the more viable ones. Yes, mom will be angry, but she will also be safer and cared for. It is possible to let the state assume guardianship, but OP needs to know that she will have no say in where mom is placed and any/all assets (house) and income would be taken over by the state/guardian, for mom's care.
Since they generally hire not only an atty to represent the person but also doctor(s) to assess the person, it should be plainly obvious that this woman can't possibly care for herself. IF she could get around by herself, get out and shop, prepare meals, etc, but lived in a hoarded out pig-sty and refused to bathe, then certainly the judge might say she's every right to live like that. This woman doesn't meet any kind of live alone, perform ADLs, dementia or not!
OP - do explore the guardianship route. POA is never going to assist you in placing your mother, but guardianship can. You'll have to find a good EC atty to consult with (many offer a first initial consult for free - draw up all questions and find one locally using zip code at naela.org)
"...we cannot force someone to do what they do NOT want to do."
"When that happens, you have to go into a facility. No choice."
If her mother doesn't want aides or to move to a facility, would that not result in "forcing" her to do what she doesn't want to do?
I do agree with that first quote - we ran into this and were told explicitly by the EC atty that we could not force mom to move (she wouldn't let the aides in after a few weeks and refused to consider moving.) He suggested guardianship, but the facility we chose wouldn't accept committals - we had to punt and come up with a plausible fib (she does have dementia - not 100% certain about OP's mom, but in either case, you can't force this move.)
Although we have mom in AL/MC, not a NH, I would think the NH would have the same "rules" regarding force. Staff told me that they are NOT allowed to force ANY resident to do something they don't want to do. What they do instead is coax the person, sometimes getting compliance (meds would be most important, bathing *could* wait, medical treatment also would be important.)
I agree this falls under enabling, however, how does one just walk away from someone who can't walk, can't propel themselves, doesn't go out (groceries anyone?) and just state c'est la vie? I think OP has some possible avenues to explore, such as SW, Aging council, geriatric manager, EC attorney, etc., but these will all take time and may be dead ends.
Somehow this doc isn't getting the whole picture. Even if she passes the cognitive testing, is he not aware of her inability to walk, toilet, get out for supplies, etc? Bad choices is one thing, inability to care for oneself is a whole different issue!
if she truly has options, present them as that together inclusive of your need to return to your life. Some Assisted Living are more homelike than others, some allow rental so she is not all in with commitment and have a continuum of care options for if/when she needs more care. Note - there are differences in services and regulatory agencies depending oN whether IL, AL, continuum of care, life care etc. Some have rentals, some entrance fees (very expensive) with health care packages attached so you are not really buying the real estate but her apartment based on what/where she needs to be placed and all the attendant needs. Tricky stuff re: what, if anything, is covered since Medicare doesn’t cover custodial, and places with assessed leveled care needs medically and financially are very expensive without and with long term care insurance which you didn’t mention so probably don’t have and wouldn’t:couldn’t be an option to buy now.
You could explore respite options if you do a rental which is kinda like a trial run and can be presented as such but her buying into accepting/liking a new set up would entail likely a lot of visitation from you in the transition and you have Covid concerns to think about and facility precautions such as internal refs/safety precautions and visitation policies.
Truthfully, I would strongly consider a geriatric case manage to service to help manage all of this. Lastly POA and get competency status are not the same. Adult Protective Services may be an option but preserving your relationship is a factor for you both. Get help with this. Also JASA helps adult children of seniors depending on your state re availability. It is non-sectarian despite name and catholic charities. Google also department of aging for services. Tough situation. Be well and take care of you
Moms doc said she passes all cognition test and she has the right to make bad choices like not bathing. She is not walking anymore its too hard with her COPD. No oxygen is used but it makes her very week. I push her in a wheel chair. She can not self propell she doesnt have the strength. Im just at a loss. I need to go back to my life and family and she wants to stay in her home. Im as stuborn as her it breaks my heart.
Does the doctor have any comment to make on the likely mental health of someone who hasn't stepped outside her house for seven years, or does he think that's a lifestyle choice too?