Welcoming tips for holiday gatherings? Narcissistic mom with dementia attacks me in public.

I have had to tell my husband he will stay home if he can’t be more respectful to me. I do a lot for him and don’t feel a bit bad leaving his butt at home if not pleasant!

I have no doubt that RichCapableSon has a good relationship with his patients. He doesn't have to live with them. He doesn't have to deal with their day-to-day problems. And he doesn't have a painful history with them since childhood. He probably doesn't have to take the blame for any or all parental "slights" and suffering as some adult children do. He may not have to repeatedly interrupt his normal activities for their multiple crises.

He has some good techniques for dealing with older people in general. These suggestions are especially valuable for professionals or occasional visitors... and sometimes for family members, too.

Yes, it's true that not all people with Alzheimer's are non-stop angry or vindictive. But their care is generally difficult, especially as the disease progresses. I did not have narcissistic parents. But I certainly admire the many strong caregivers who visit this site, coping with great personal difficulties, yet reaching out to others with encouragement and compassion.

I am surprised in light of Covid that you are bringing your mother into such a large public gathering. This is a good year to keep her home. Everybody will certainly understand. You will now have set a precedence for not bringing mom to large family gatherings and as her disease progresses, these large gatherings will be more and more difficult for her to manage. Let the family members visit her in smaller groups. That way she can enjoy each and everyone of them and you are no longer in the hot seat.

I would be very tempted to say, I had no idea you felt that way. I guess we will be finding a new caregiver that you feel is competent. Anyone here looking for this position? Because I am obviously a very poor choice for mthr and this is my 2 week notice. I am terribly sorry mom, we will get you someone you can love and not feel this way towards.

What she is doing is abusive and you shouldn't continue to let her get away with it. Maybe, just maybe, she will stop if she thinks you are quitting because of her vile mouth. My dad got off on humiliating people and I would turn the tables as often as possible. He learned that he could very well be the humiliated one if he pulled this abuse with me. He actually thought he was funny. That's what narcs do.

bundleofjoy,

I think you nailed it right there. It sure sounds like RichCapableSon is inventing some things.

Maryjann,
Thank-you for your kind words. No, life has not brought me many comforts or any really. What is has given me is an uncanny insight into human behavior.

RichCapableSon--Surely you realize that the brain does not, and cannot, always heal itself. There are traumatic brain injuries (caused by outside forces as an accident) and non-traumatic brain injuries. Unlike other organs, the brain cannot replace cells. Infections in the brain are usually treated with antibiotics.

Alzheimer's is a non-traumatic injury, demonstrable, usually, by CT scan. Some types of CVA (stroke) can be helped with long-term therapy, but it is considered to be healthy brain cells "learning" new functions. Hemorrhagic strokes, (bleeding into the brain) usually cover a wider-spread area and have a poor prognosis. Alzheimers is a degenerative disease, an ultimately fatal one, the cause of which is not fully understood.

I'm not an MD, but I've worked with brain injured patients for many years and never known of anyone with Alzheimer's show anything but fleeting improvement (usually due to medication). Sadly, its a degenerative process. Please feel free to research this subject further with any reliable medical source.

To: RichCapableSon,

I'm glad you had a nice mom who adored you. Seriously though the bit about women loving little girls like crazy, and dementia or not they love children. That's outrageous and totally ridiculous.

Dude, clearly you have not met my mother. In my family unit the sun shone out of my brother's every orifice and he was the Messiah to her. My sister and I were pretty much useless. I was the family scapegoat and took the abuse. If I took the slightest pride in some achievement or exhibited the tiniest glimmer of self-esteem and confidence, my mother would grind that right down to dust. The smallest imperfections or flaws had to be highlighted and pointed out every time and repeatedly. And, last but not least I could never put a morsel of food in my mouth without a double-helping of mom's public shaming and chastisement for dessert.
It's a miracle that I didn't grow up and become a drug addict or alcoholic.
I was not a little girl that was loved like crazy. I grew up in so much gaslighting, scapegoating, and mental abuse that I almost went crazy. Not the same thing though.

KMOBC77: Imho, you have a couple options - #1 Do not take her out in public, #2 Say nada/zero/zilch when she creates this outbursts in public or #3 tell the family and friends in private about mom and her dementia and narcissism.

I’m right there with you. I have always been the scapegoat and she will sometimes say awful things in front of family. Even when we are alone she can say really horrible and hurtful things.
My mother can get downright abusive if anything happens that she disagrees with, especially when discussing politics. It’s almost frightening. I’ve learned the hard way not to engage with her when these outbursts occur. I try to change the subject or I ignore her and remain silent. When we are alone and she starts in, I walk away Speaking up and calling her out on her behavior only enrages her further. This has been a lifelong habit that has only gotten worse as she ages. This type of behavior has only lost her many friendships. My mothers caregiver has been very helpful with advice in dealing my mother. Remember you will never win with a narcissistic person. You’ll only become more hurt and frustrated.

The family needs to be informed about what your mother does to you. That she specifically instigates and attacks you in public to create an unpleasant scene. Let them know that her dementia causes this and to likely expect it if she's coming to a social function.
I will tell you how everyone, including yourself should handle it.
When outbursts, instigating, or attacking of you starts, everyone should completely ignore her. Do not validate anything she says or give her a moment of attention. They should just carry on as if she wasn't even there. If she gets too rambunctious the family member hosting the event needs to tell her plainly that you did not do anything wrong and that her behavior will not be tolerated in their home. This will shut her up.
If she's fine with you when you're alone, her dementia isn't as advanced as maybe you think. What she does to you in front of everyone is a performance. She wants the attention that comes from playing to an audience. Your family needs to make it very plain to her that they are not interested in seeing that show. Then ignore her.
Trust me, your mother will pipe down if she's put in her place by anyone but you.

Turn it back on her. A giggle and "Oh, Mom, you are too TOO cute". "Oh, Mom, you just tickle me". "Mom, is that a new dress?"
I hope other's don't join in with Mom. If that is the case I think I would not attend, or attend briefly, ask for a doggie bag, and just apologize all over myself as I exit with "Oh, I just am going to HAVE to address these headaches in the new year; they are ruining ALL of my fun".
To be frank, there isn't much to do to change others. It is our own responses we have to change or just remove ourselves from the situations, which always gets my vote.
Just change the subject. Ask Mom to repeat herself seven times. Make her shout out her abuse until others are twice as embarrassed as you are, then knock your head and say "I got water in my ear in the tub and I just can't hear a THING; wouldn't you know it would happen at the weekend. Anyone know a good cure"? Start collecting your cute sayings now, and by the time you get there, fortified with a fine glass of dry white, you will be ready. Or, heck, take note cards with the stuff on them. Pull out the cards and give your random response such as "Did everyone know that the SIXTH and FINAL season of This is Us starts January 4th???? I can't WAIT. I am so addicted!" Put the note cards back in your lap and wait.
THIS COULD BE FUN!!!!!!
Once my normally so sweet and kind Mom had at me when the conversation went South in this manner:
Mom: We need to get ready to go now.
Me: OK, but I have to go pee first.
Mom: I HATE that expression.
Me: Yes, but nevertheless, I should go pee first.
Dad: Great laughter at the lunch table.
When you've just got to get them, humor works best.

To those suggesting calling her mother out, even not considering the dementia, a non-dementia narcissist will only attack you further if you dare call them out. You can't win with a narcissistic.

Sorry, original poster, I have no advice. As the scapegoat child, I had to go no contact with both my mother and her flying monkeys (my siblings). Though she still attacks me in painful ways by phone and email, I'm not in the public situations anymore. Is the love you are getting worth the damage from the narcissism?

Thanks for sharing this! We’re singing the very same song right now!!! Our mothers must be related! Lol. I go back and forth to my mom’s house, trying to alternate months with my sister. Problem is that when ANY family member comes over or we meet up with ANYONE she knows in a store, she begins telling them what a lousy daughter I am. Then when we’re alone in her home, she doesn’t remember it and usually is okay with me. I never know what to say when she says rude things to other people. BTW, I’m a retired nurse and never have qualms with anyone else. I just try to give her the best care I can. I have no answers for this problem! Best of luck to you!

She is probably scared and since you are her rock, she needs you to be at fault when she is insecure. She needs to stay where she feels safe, and they need to visit her one or 2 at a time - even entertain her while you go out.

With the numbers rising again, and Omicron as well, good excuse not to get together this year.

Her being in public increases her exposure as well,

I'd tell her, while you were alone with her, mom, I refuse to take you out in public anymore b/c of your humiliating outbursts towards me. If you are unable to treat me with respect at a minimum, you can stay home from public outings. If you can get her to agree to your terms, take her out again in public, but not to a family gathering. See how she acts. If she humiliates you, right then & there you let her know you're DONE taking her anywhere, period. If she acts in a respectful manner, agree to take her to another family function IF she behaves herself, and take it event by event, keeping your rules firmly in place. The moment she makes a scene, pack her up and take her home. I guarantee that will happen ONCE and only ONCE.

This is odd behavior for her personality type b/c normally, these women treat us very poorly in private, but put on a big show in public where they behave beautifully. Strange that she acts out in an opposite fashion. But I firmly believe these types of women have mental illnesses of some kind, so trying to figure out WHAT kind is a waste of time. Mental illness presents itself in a variety of odd ways, that's for sure.

Wishing you the best of luck setting down some boundaries with your mother and then sticking to them, like glue. You're entitled to DO that, you know! You have a right to be shown respect!

I leave a lot of the time. It is the only thing that works for me. It's the only thing that registers with my parents. I wish I could give you a magic answer but there isn't one.

I have found in my experience that people need to learn how to differentiate the personality from the disease. I have a friend right now whose mother has been a hateful, spiteful person her whole life. The disease only exasperates it. My sweet daddy only became more gentle and loving.
People on here who criticize the writer do not know what she is going through. If Mom was a sweetheart her whole life nad became like this because of the disease, that's one thing. But personalities and who a person is is unlikely to change.
My advice to the writer, control how often you take her out. Period. If she has a problem, and this is a part of her personality, then the ball is in her ocurt. If you get along fine privately, cherish those. She won't live forever and you don't want any regrets.

Most of us were raised with turning the other cheek, as it was biblical. THere's also something else that's biblical - being careful where you cast your pearls. How to love, but not tolerate behavior?
I had a friend whose mother wa a tyrant and critical. As a child, she learned to make her own happiness. As an adult, she dreaded going to mom's house as she would come home agitated and fearful. Her solution? Spend less time, and only spend time when it's quality time. She told me something I'll never forget. Know your limitations. If she tolerates mom's behavior, then she becomes resentful, which is a bad thing and affects other areas of her life which is not good for anybody. By controlling her time with mom, she can love her mother more fully.
Maybe it's time to control how often she goes out. Maybe find a way to leave her at home during a gathering, and while there, explain to everyone to forewarn them. Make that decision with them, not alone.
Also, have you been able to broach t he public subject with her when you're alone and getting alone? THere are no easy answers, but at this stage in her life, you have to look out for her, and control what's best for everybody.

My mother was the same diagnosis. It got worse as her dementia got worse except occasionally she’d forget who I was which was momentarily a relief . I cut off as much association as I could. It never changed, even though I was the only sibling willing to let her have hospice at home and the only one who dealt with her for the last critical months of her life, her last words to me were cruel as usual. It DOES NOT change! My mother was worse when we were alone so I always had my husband with me if I had to take her to the dr or something similar. In your case I’d make sure you are only alone.
Please remember as a scapegoat you have been trained to think your feelings are unimportant , her’s reign supreme but that is completely untrue. Don’t take her. If someone else wants her there, let them take her while you stay as far away from her as possible( out of sight out of mind). You deserve freedom from abuse and bullying. They will never see her for what she is unless she pulls the same with them so don’t expect them to.
honestly the most relief I ever felt was when I permanently walked away from her because I finally understood the problem was her and I never deserved her treatment nor was I obliged to allow her to treat me the way she did. Of course she hated me for it even more but oh well, her loss. As her medical POA I did my duty but not with her around and with minimal contact. You aren’t obligated to allow it either. Don’t let her bully you, just stop the association.

I have several comments. First of all, stop at once putting her into "public" situations where others can see and hear her. It is unacceptable and must not be allowed. So no outings where she has the opportunity. Second, if you are somewhere and she acts out, I would make sure before hand that people know her problems and you have not been able to control her or stop her. At least they are aware. Now if she acts out, I would do one of two things: I would really let her have it and tell her to be quiet and behave (which she won't do) so be prepared at once to escort her out and away into another area away from everyone. Then you go back to the "fun". People like this deserve nothing if they are so mean and rude. I would not tolerate it ever.

Stop taking her out. If she needs a target, she will have to pick out a new one. Instead of insulting her kids, my mom told hospital staff enough lies to turn us over to Adult Protective Services. (2 adult kids who took her shopping, out for dinner, for drives, to the mall, and with enough food in the house to feed neighbors and every closet full of her clothes). Then we had random, unannounced visits. There is NO amount of attention that is enough for a narcissist.

Pick and choose your gatherings. Keep her visits short and sweet with others. She probably cannot manage the stimulation for long. In some ways it is like managing an over tired toddler in a grocery store. Too much going on, too few inner controls, too exhausted. Do budget some quality time for yourself with these people. Get a sitter for your Mom at those times. Make it clear that they are welcome to visit her at home; I doubt many will. Do not let your life pass you by to try and maintain something for her that is gone.

Why take her out anyplace? It’s obviously too stressful for the both of you.

Where are these holiday gatherings? Are you expected to take your mother with you? Does she live with you? Or you with her?

Honestly, I'd skip the holiday gatherings and give yourself a break. The Omicron variant will be circulating amongst many families and holiday gatherings this year.

I need more information to help you, KMOBC77. You can PM me more, if you like. Also, I do not understand your jargon: Go grey rock, or "no contact" with other family members, or flying monkeys for survival. I understand you are thinking or talking about restricting or not restricting contact with some family members but you do not say why.

My field is psychology. It can be very complex.

I do understand about sitting next to her, and about having issues when the stranger part of the family comes around or she gets around them. We can work through that. I deeply understand how those who are most often not around can see you as guilty even while your mom is screaming at you and you have to raise your voice just to be heard, while they just go about their business and listen or watch. Many scenarios like that. It's highly likely she's really yelling at them and because you love her, most of all, she's comfortable knocking on you.
This is more common than you can imagine. Sometimes the siblings use these things to ease their own consciences.

One gal went on a 3 day cocaine binge, spending all the monty her AD mom gave her for that gal's rent. The AD mom found out. 3 days later the coke head came over and crashed on the son-caregiver's bed and went to sleep. the mom came and stood at the hallway by the son's bedroom and began yelling at the son. The son was reading a book for a business research project and a mother should be proud of him, but she was letting him have it both barrelos. Finally after the sister never comes out to help quiet the mom down, the son gets up and goes to the mom and tries to speak to her. She can't hear him because she is screaming THAT loudly. So he raises his voice loud enough for her and yells out, QUIT YELLING AT ME. IT'S CAROLE YOU'RE MAD AT FOR SPENDING TWO MONTHS RENT ON COCAINE.AND LEAVING HER DAUGHTER AT HOME BY HERSELF RUNNING AROUND WITH OSCAR THE COKE DEALER 3 DAYS.

About that time the sister barged out into the hallway yelling at the son, DON'T YOU TALK TO MY MOTHER LIKE THAT. Classic case of projection and ego defense mechanisms going off. Then the daughter still coming down from coke call APS on her brother for yelling at his mom. APS had to drop the case right away when one of the few decent ones called on them and realized what had happened, seeing the bank statements etc. and checking on the apartment's manager about the eviction notice etc.

So I won't assume in the least you are at fault.

My heart goes out to you. My mother is very similar. She triggers extreme anxiety in me. When we are alone, she’s fine. When we around others she must be the center of attention. She doesn’t like me casually talking to her friends or my step siblings. At first I attributed it on cognitive impairment, but looking back… and reading letters she wrote to my dad before they were married…she has always been a very jealous and self centered person. I have no tips or answers, only understanding.

It’s a difficult situation I’m sure. I chose no contact with my narcissistic mother when I decided my mental health and well-being had to come first. Very difficult boundary to set and maintain but I’m better for it. Not to over-simplify your situation but it appears you have two choices. Either learn to accept her treatment of you in public or don’t take her in public. We get to live our lives how we choose. Sometimes the right decisions are not the easy ones. Remember you owe NO ONE any explanations on how you live your life. Good luck!

Are we talking physical or verbal? My mother used to say cutting, humiliating or rude things to me in front of my siblings and their partners. People thought it was funny but I didn't! I felt outraged but tried not to show it. She also used to kick my stepfather in front of me. I would stop her but others would ignore it, as though it never happened.
When it is verbal and public, it is difficult to know how to behave. It is a bit like if a toddler flung food and it hit you in the face. You have to smile through it, whilst finding the right words. Not easy.
My mother was, like your's completely nice to me when they weren't there (if a bit moany!) so when it happens part of you considers that it seems deliberate. There seems a degree of self control. I don't know what goes on in the head of people with dementia. I asked a mental health worker why it was that the mentally ill or those with dementia were unpleasant, rather than happily delusional. He said he didn't know but almost all of his clients were like that. You are not alone!
Sit well back and good luck!

Dear All,

Thank you for taking your time to read my post and offer your suggestions. So very much appreciated. This forum has been such a life saver/ sanity saver on many occasions.

Thanks for all the tips, thoughts & suggestions. I will let you know what works. There is lots to be said for being the "familiar" face in the crowd and sundowning/ frustration with all the activity. The person who is the ally feels like me- and does not want to make things worse. I hate to miss these gatherings since I do not see most of these friends and family often due to all of our work schedules. Yea it does hurt and I do have anxiety about people who do not know the situation. It "is"- what is is sadly. Just super painful & humiliating- even if others understand. I am very successful in other areas of my Life and this makes you feel like your 3 yo again. Very diminishing & hurtful- in public. Sitting right beside her- at a table has helped - since she is distracted by other people & I am out of her direct line of sight. Thank you all for caring & for the hope & peace we get by having a group who truly understands. Have a wonderful holiday ahead!