We should euthanize the very sick and elderly who have no quality of life, no awareness of themselves or their surroundings.

It’s a very slippery slope. Has the patient ever agreed to assisted suicide? Weary relative just want to get rid of the person? Euthanasia can start to be applied to the handicapped, the mentally ill, the mentally retarded. Who is to make these decisions? With gene editing people can choose the baby’s eye color etc. We would be entering a “brave new world” . I understand having worked with people with only physical life signs that it seems a tragedy. Statistics show that those who said they wanted to die or be assisted with suicide often change their minds toward the end.

Like XenaJada, I’m in my 50s. That weird decade that encompasses the end of the baby boom plus up to mid X.

I expect assisted suicide to become more available while Medicare restricts more treatments. You won’t get your second knee replacement followed by your triple bypass followed by a solid organ removal and then four stroke operations. You may, at best, get one of those things.

Assisted suicide will eventually become encompassed in hospice as an option.

With your attitude, why are you doing it? Has someone forced you to take care of your grandfather?? My, my. This just ruined my night.
Temper

W5 is excellent show.
Examining one of the best and most beautiful places to live in Canada, Vancouver Island which showed increase in MAID, 7.5% compare to national average of 2.5%

You lost me right here: "All life is pointless. This is pointless. Choke on those dirty adult diapers, diehards!"

While part of what you say may have a point, the bitterness you express negates all the parts that MAY be valid.

And if you think my life is pointless, or ANY life for that matter, YOU yourself have missed the point.

Have a nice day and have a nice life, if such a thing is possible.

This is kind of a coincidence but there is a show here in Canada called W5. Guess what the subject was on the latest episode. You guessed it. Assisted suicide.

This episode was called Death Wish; Relentless. Season 56, Episode 26.

Try to find it if you are interested. It was very thought provoking.

It comes down to who is willing to do it and how will it be done. Not all dementia patients have the capacity to be able to carry it out.

While the OP's post is certainly an angry rant that is probably coming from a very bitter heart, there is some merit to what is being said. Even if one feels euthanasia is not the answer, there IS something to be said about quality of one's last days instead of trying to throw the kitchen sink at trying to prevent the inevitable.

I had a doctor and NP at the SNF tell me how they see it daily - family members who never visit their loved one, but absolutely FREAK OUT when Grandma takes a turn for the worse after having been there for months or years. Then the family wants the doctor to "Do everything possible! Feeding tubes, dialysis, etc. so that Grandma won't die before Johnny can get here in a few weeks to say goodbye."

How many times have I seen posts here about family members who are in denial and in reality, THEY just are not ready to be sad, therefore the elderly loved one has to suffer longer! I've seen people demand their elderly loved one take chemo! Good grief. Chemo is horrible for someone young and healthy.

It is often HARD on the patient and family members to get an elderly person to their doctor appointments and so many times they have to go every single day! I was shuttling a relative to so many appointments that I deemed unnecessary - they would just take her vitals and ask how she was feeling and tell her to come back in a few weeks. She was in a wheelchair with oxygen. There was a giant tank and long hose. She was also wearing depends and was horrified that she would leak or smell while she was out and about.

Palliative care needs to be promoted more and needs to be made into a wonderful alternative.

I'm in my 50's. I'm having more and more conversations with people my age and younger who feel like I do. Our generation does NOT WANT to end up in a SNF just waiting to die and I totally get the euthanasia thing. While I would never want to take my life, I think just letting nature take course at a certain point in old age is a good thing.

We put our dogs and cats down when they're suffering, but we're not generous enough to treat our elders with the same dignity. Truly a sad situation.

My fil once said he’d rather be dead than crapping his diaper. Or getting fed through IV. Having to be fed by mouth. He did however regain most adls.

…But yesterday, he had a seizure. Turned out he had a stroke, again, some days prior. There is now a heart issue to figure out.

Regardless of what he once said, he is going to try to stay alive as long as his wife remains. And even though mil told me she would not pursue advanced treatment if her cancer does come back, I suspect she will as long as he is here.

If, however, one is incapacitated and the other one has dementia, then so and his brother make the decisions. They just don’t know what they are.

I would have no issue with this if the patient themselves had this written in their health directive, where if they came to a defined level of not living THEY would prefer to be euthenized.

I do have an issue with someone saying WE SHOULD do this, regardless of the wishes of the patient. Only the patient should have the right to decide this, no one else, and if they had directed this in some health directive I am fine with that. Even then many people would not be OK with that, I am. But only if THEY the PATIENT wanted this.

Alva, one reason not to ban posts like this, is that in many places (like where I am) it has taken years to change the law to give people the right to choose about their own death. This post has shown once again that very few people object to it, and the legislators need to hear that. Unfortunately, over and over again.

The people who think it will be disastrous may be interested to hear what’s happened here since the law was changed. Virtually nothing. The rules are very strict, and are followed without all the publicity that we had before (old men flying to Switzerland with their families, murder/suicides after finding the requested drugs on-line, religious views pushed in parliament etc). No doctors are forced to participate if they object personally. No religious funerals have been refused. No bodies buried in un-consecrated ground. No protests in the streets. Just people making their own choices about their own deaths, which usually take place very peacefully with loving family members present, the way they want it.

I am sure the OP would want to euthanize me. I’m wheelchair bound, on dialysis, insulin dependent diabetic and have Had multiple cardiac surgeries. However, I still work at home part-time, am down to only a dialysis aide. I am not dependent on my children, family members or the government for emotional, physical or financial support. Right now I’m a happy, independent person. I have many friends that I care deeply about. I have a religious and spiritual community that I enjoy and support. I find the OP’s statements distasteful. People should be able to have assisted suicide, but not the way the OP suggests.

How about we just stop giving statins, colonoscopies, treatment for skin cancer to people with dementia? I mean it is ridiculous some of the medications people with alz or dementia are on. There have been posts here about doctors wanting to put pacemakers in a person with dementia or get a stent or cancer treatment or something life extending for someone that has no idea who or where they are.

On the opposite side of the coin are family members keeping elders in squalor and baremy alive so they can collect their social security or other money.

Nothing is ever one size fits all when it comes to people. There are bad outcomes on both sides of this issue and other issues.

I read this earlier but did not respond. But I see it has been a good discussion. But, I found no nasty responses from the OP other than the initial post. Administration must have removed them.

I think this person is caring for someone and sees no way out and I think there are some of us who can sympathize. Yes, there are options but not everyone is able to take advantage. You have to be under a certain income level to get any help and most people fall between the cracks. Too much monthly income but little or no savings for care. And nothing happens overnight.

I know a woman who was caring for her ALZ Mom. She had Mom in an AL but felt she was not getting the care she needed so she brought her to live with her. The woman had thermal cancer. No one to care for Mom if she died before her. The woman overdosed her Mom and then overdosed herself. So sad, both were beautiful people.

Lets leave God out of it and respect people who want to preserve life, it is their right to do so.
In many countries assisted suicide is gaining lots of recognition. Canada, Switzerland, Netherlands for example.
Canada has very strict approach to MAID, medical assistance in dying, only patient can decide if end of life is imminent, no family, caregiver and especially anybody with POA cannot have any input, none whatsoever.
As of March 2023 people with mental disease will be eligible as well.
Pegasos in Basil Switzerland although very strict looks at many aspects.
It is controversial as it should be, but, taking some action or forcing anybody would be wrong. Many people recover despite drs diagnosis.
OP can vent and that is her/ his right. Just the content sounds disgusting, should be removed? No, everybody is free to express their opinions just maintaining some manners. OP, get some help!

This post started off making a reasoned argument that most people could agree with.
Then you went bat-guano like a derailed train and became abusive. I don't need to report you for abuse because others on this thread have already done so.
You claim to have spent your entire life taking care of physically and mentally ill adults.
Someone like you should never be allowed anywhere near disabled adults, children, or even animals who need care.
Get help. You need some.

@PeggySue,

You are right. Caregiving usually has zero reward. Often times a caregiving situation does just get dumped in someone's lap and they don't know what to do with it.
No one has to work in caregiving. I'm not ashamed to say when I started out in it 25 years ago I had no skills or education to speak of and it was a job that's easy to get. As time went by and I went private duty, I stayed in it because the money was so good.
When a person is saying all life is pointless and they hope people choke on dirty adult diapers, they've lost their cotton-picking mind and should most definitely not have any person or animal left in their care.
I believe in human euthanasia. I think human beings should be shown the same mercy and compassion we will show a suffering animal that is beyond hope. Some places have it. The state of Oregon allows it. Some of the Scandinavian countries do too.
It is not for some wing-nut like the OP here to make such abusive statements though.

I agree with Peggy. Why is this post bad but the one about people wishing their loved ones would die is OK?

As for those that brought up why not euthanize babies since they use diapers too. Well a baby only for a certain time period is in diapers. That baby after 1 or 2 will graduate to using a potty. The adult in diapers will never graduate from defecating and urinating on themselves. Would any adult in their right mind want to live that way? Would they reject all life saving measures? Most would. The exception narcissists and people who fear death because they think they will be going to hell for the evil things they did on this earth.

The reality is life here is messy and messed up. You have children dying of cancer and old people with dementia living into the hundreds. You have people allowef to euthanize an unborn baby because of birth defects but we have thousands of children and adults locked away in facilities due to mental illness that makes them violent and psychotic. What's right. Whats wrong? Everyone has their own opinions.

There are so many grey areas to life. I am for forced stetilization of child abusers. Yet others say you can't do that and are against it. I am against using narcan on drug addicts who are overdosing. Others say you have to save them. That it's wrong to let them die. Who's right and who's wrong?

I dont think you should just randomly euthanize old people with dementia. But please stop with the life saving treatments. Let them pass with some dignity and stop using them as cash cows.

I just reported the post via the message box at the bottom of the page. Given that it's a weekend, and perhaps deliberately timed that way by the troller, I'm hoping that enough people complain about this revolting diatribe that the admins, if they're monitoring on the weekend, remove it immediately.

Two things --

1. Anyone is free to refuse medications and treatments at any time. If we simply didn't treat a lot of today's ailments, I'm sure people wouldn't suffer as long as they do.

My own mother had CHF for years, and I believe she lived seven years longer than she probably should have. She, however, didn't feel she was suffering and wouldn't have chosen not to be treated. In fact, her dementia made her think she was 16 again, and when asked, she'd tell you she felt fantastic.

My cat developed CHF and the vet said we could drain her chest cavity and put her on Lasix -- exactly what we'd done with my mom. I declined to do that to a helpless animal, and she suffered for two days vs. Mom's seven years.

2. You need to find another line of work.

Admins:
Reporting post so you can assess and decide on any actions.

what is wrong with you? Why are you so miserable? Are you wanting to kill yourself or someone you are caring for? If so, you need to call a crisis center immediately! Call 911! Why so much hatred? Get on some Prozac because if not, you could possibly end up in jail for murder!

Beyond any sort of moral or ethical argument, which I am SO not going to get into with the OP -or anyone else, for that matter - the reason why euthanasia is allowed for our pets is because, legally, pets are considered "property". THAT'S the reason why we, as owners, are allowed to *legally* make the decision to euthanize.

I have had to euthanize pets. It is a horrific decision to have to make, and while I know it was the right one, I still suffer from guilt. I can't imagine making that decision for one of my parents, or in-laws, or spouse.

OP, if you are to the point where you are fantasizing about euthanasia for your grandfather, then, for his sake and yours, end your caregiving forthwith! You are no good to anyone, least of all him, while this rage burns in your gut!

You can not make a unilateral decision like that.
Totally different if you as the one that has no quality of life, no awareness of self. But you can not tell me that because my Husband had dementia and he did not "know" who he was, who I was that I have to euthanize him.
(He may not have known ME but I still knew HIM)
If HE had told me prior to his illness that if he ever "got like that" that he would rather be dead then I would have some validity to look into Physician Assisted Suicide.
BUT once he became unable to carry it out himself I would NOT be able to do it. There lies the rub with Dementia and Assisted Suicide.
If I am ever diagnosed with a life limiting condition I would consider suicide. My fear would be that I would not take enough pills and would end up being more of a burden to family than I would be if I let nature take it's course.
Assisted Suicide should be legal in all States.
Doctors should be more honest and forthcoming with facts about prognosis and get over the mind set of CURE. The benefits of Hospice should be taught in Medical School. Doctors should discuss it with patients when discussing prognosis. End of Life choices should be discussed with patients LONG before the need, it should be discussed during Annual Physicals simply to get people comfortable discussing the topic.

This persons screen name “Dead Inside” says it all.

I’ve seen a miracle or two (or more) in my life, and I don’t know who or what distributes them, but I DO KNOW that it’s NOT ME.

THEREFORE, I gotta hang around long enough to watch as many things, good and bad, as possible, AND LEARN FROM THEM.

I appreciate your perspective, deadinside, but it isn’t one I share.

I firmly disagree. Who are you to determine what is or is not a "quality" life? Who are you to determine if someone needs to die? Just because your perception is that their life is "wasted" at this point, or of no value, does not mean it is.

My father, who suffered with vascular dementia and heart failure in MC against his will, still enjoyed many moments in his last years. He enjoyed rocking in the rocking chair on the porch. He enjoyed visits from his nephews. He enjoyed eating his favorite meals and treats. He enjoyed looking through magazines on his hobbies. He enjoyed telling people about his collections from the pictures kept in his room. Did he have the quality of life I wished for him? No he didn't but his quality was far too good for me to complicate ending it.

My mother had MCI and spinal stenosis. Even in her final days when she couldn't move around much, she was still living and impacting those around her. Her great-grandson, only 6 at the time of her death, doesn't want his train table removed from her bedroom; he still goes in there to play saying he still feels like she's there. A little boy who lives reading because she read to him nearly every day for years. Who loves music because Mom and I frequently sang the songs my mom sang when working when I was a child. A little boy who still says out of the blue "I miss Grandma".

Their final years were worth while; they felt so and so do I, the person who carried by largest burden of their care.

I do not disagree with assisted suicide for certain medical conditions, provided the person agrees while competent. Death by cancer and some other diseases can be unbelievably cruel. But wholesale euthanasia for old age; NO!!!

We do it for our pets, because we do not want them to suffer. Why do we want to see our fellow humans suffer?

You should not be caregiving. Why are you?