We payed $80,000 for in law suite renos, and my spouse and I gave up half of our home. After 8 yrs rent free is it ok to ask MIL for rent?

I have trouble with assumptions about who has paid what to whom or who is living rent free. Of course I am the indigent party here that is living rent free, while I’m the full time unpaid caretaker and house manager.

But that is exactly my point: I assume that I’m paying much more than rent in my services where my sibs may think I’m taking advantage. It will never get settled because there is no dollars and cents accountability going on. Even if it were being accounted for there is no agreed upon dollar amount for my services.

Outsiders have no idea what agreements have been made or how much money one contributes toward the housekeeping.

I know my mom feels bad that she is unable to pay me regardless of my not paying rent and it breaks her heart that I pay for parts and repairs myself because I feel she’s running short about $100 a month and I don’t want to add to that.

Anither big item, I save her as much money as I can by fixing things myself, bargain shopping, thrift store shopping, or just substituting cheaper products.

For instance she takes one prescription that her copay was outrageous and I found it in a Canadian pharmacy. The doctor is aware and has the Canadian pharmacy on speed dial. I’m saving her tons of cash as well as not running up the donut hole clause in her health insurance. Yes, anyone could do it but I’m the one who did because of my closer involvement with her.

To top it off, when push comes to shove, my mom won’t remember what I paid or not anymore than she’ll remember my sister paid for the roof!

As much easier it would be in the long run to sort out I’m not about to suggest any financial reckoning in black and white in the hope we will be on the same page when the time comes. I am heeding the advice given here all the time: I’m keeping all the receipts!

Charlotte

You should be getting some type of rent and I agree it should be a written contract.

However, it may bite you in the *ss! I’m sure the recipients of her “gifts” will have plenty to say and Mom, too. She may think it was settled a long time ago.

The backlash may escalate from there, you know. She may decide to move and other family members might encourage that

Even if that happens it sounds like the living space can be rented to someone else, maybe at a profit!

Regardless, the issue should be addressed before she goes or there will never be a resolution.

Just saying: be prepared.

Charlotte

Crankygirl, as I said back in June, I agree with freqflyer.

Similar situation here in my family. My folks were supposed to pay off my brother's home when he did the add on apartment for them to live in "in perpetuity"...so he did build a nice apartment and he got a lovely large family room upstairs from them. (It was a family affair, we all worked on this addition)

Time to pony up the costs and well--eldest brother had cleaned them out, financially. They barely had enough to tuck a little away for a rainy day.

Brother was going to lose his home--so those of us sibs who could, helped out financially. Crisis averted, for the moment.

Mother has lived there 21 years. Dad passed 13 years ago. She pays for the cable and you hear about that every single month. No utilities or rent. She also "blows" her SS every month on junk--Dollar Store shopping and eating out.

Brother is too upset still to ask her for rent. I voted against this move 24 years ago when it first came up.....and I can say, mother certainly could have afforded $500 a month and not suffered. But she never offered and they never asked. Most years we other sibs secretly slip brother a few grand.

Mother thinks it will all be made "whole" when she dies--but the "joke" is that she only has $50K in life insurance. Split 5 ways (elder brother has since died)---well, $10K will not help us financially AT ALL.

Yes--your MIL should be paying rent. I see the anger in my brother just build from year to year. He NEVER would have had the folks move in if he'd known mother was going to live forever and ever.

I think it is absolutely ok. Once I retired we had no choice but to take rent from my mom. We did not renovate but we provide for all daily living expenses

You are certainly due rent from her but a written agreement sounds advisable.
Yes she has estate value, it's now that she should be paying you though. Besides the value of her rent when added up, might exceed any bequests.

Subtle hints are likely to just fall on deaf ears so you will need to be brave and get help to setup, right away.

Hard to tackle this issue but it should be done, be resolute and follow it through.

As for yoursiblings jibing at you, ignore them and do it anyway. They have no right to add to your stress.

Freqflyer is spot on accurate. But if she's living such a high-end lifestyle, how is she suddenly going to change? Have a sit down with her and lay out the new plan.

Cranky girl,
My first reaction was, sit her down, tell her she has to pay, lie to her if you have to. How unfair to you! Then I re-read your post.

I'm assuming that 8 years ago you could AFFORD the $80,000 you spent on the renovation. Since you didn't negotiate with her previously, you must have been financially able to afford it on your own. The fact that she was well off then and you DIDN'T ask her for help may have made the impression that you had no problem affording this.
You will benefit from the addition when you sell the house. She is saving (or spending) many thousands each year by living there "free".

DON'T count on recouping your costs when she passes away. You have no idea what is in the will and if she'll change it before she passes.

You didn't ask her to contribute to the household bills for 8 years either, so I assume that you could meet all your bills without hardship. Your incomes were/are sufficient to live there comfortably without having to alter your lifestyle or go in debt.

Your post is about how you've been taken for granted, MIL doesn't find the need to contribute to your home but spends her money frivolously on herself and other family members. You're feeling taken advantage of. I don't hear of any NEED for the money,  just that you've been "left out", after you've donated a portion of your home space to her and paid the utilities and food.

Maybe she can see that ya'll are comfortable and decided she'll enjoy herself, since you're not starving, having the electric turned off or have asked her for anything.

So.....do you NEED the money? Or do you just want to "even up" the sides? Are the other family members much less financially stable than your family? Maybe that's why she wants to give them a treat that they otherwise couldn't afford.

You sound resentful that she has ignored you financially. If you truly need the money, then come right out with it. Beating around the bush won't get you anywhere. But don't be surprised if she isn't willing to give, since you've let her off the hook since she's been there. Not sure why you didn't at least have some verbal agreement in place before she even moved in.

If she won't contribute, then you have the option of having her continue living there and be ticked off and grow more and more resentful or you can tell her she has to move. Be prepared for a fight either way. It all depends on how important the money is to you.

It matters little why you gave 80K away, why have you waited so long to tell her she will be paying rent! Either way, you know the answer, of course...so it is time to do it!

This is why everything I did with parents was a written contract. When things are business-like there are far fewer misunderstandings and emotional reactions. As long as you and spouse are on the same page, figure out how much you want to charge and then sit down with her and discuss it. I know it will be hard, since you created this problem in the beginning. Again, put the new agreement in writing. Some people will think I am harsh, but adults pay there own way or they are out. It would be different if she had $800/more of SS and nothing else. If she was able to afford fair market value for the place and she never offered to pay anything, this speaks to her bad character. Good luck with this mess.

Hi! lots of good advice here, especially about husband and son taking the lead. I would also think about the ‘family’ and friends who are getting all the goodies. It could be a very good idea to talk to them about the situation and your problem – MIL isn’t contributing, it is beginning to be a more difficult financial issue for you, MIL doesn’t understand costs, enjoys giving treats to other people, it’s been going on for so long she just assumes it can go on for ever, what can you do? If they have any constructive suggestions at all, make sure that you use them and tell them that you have used them. Thanks, and even just flattery, usually work well. Perhaps a ‘family conference’ to raise the issue, or perhaps just consistent comments over a few months so that they really get it that you aren’t happy. Perhaps the ‘cutting down’ options get mixed into this time, you can say you just have to do it (harder if you are clearly pretty well off, but there could be a way to bring it in).

If the family and friends aren’t on side, MIL will complain to them and they will back her up. That will make things much harder for you. If you can lay the groundwork of things getting more expensive and it’s becoming more difficult for you, then the frank conversation should be easier to hold in three or four month’s time. Don’t leave it too long, and good luck!

Oops ..wasn't finished !
In my case ..my father has given much more to other siblings while I have always been more independent and never wanted to take advantage. Now I am more resentful of all I have always done to help out and have learned it is backfiring in a big way. My brother moved back into parents home years ago ..totally rent free although yes occasionally helps out with a utility payment or stop at store..but not anything regular . All meals are provided , all monthly bills paid by Dad ..even a more expensive cable plan that Dad doesn't need at all. Now Dad has dementia ..has had it for years ..and somehow he is also convinced that my brother is the only one who ever helped him ..so deserves the full inheritance all to himself. I haven't lived at home in many years ..but when I did I contributed much more however this has been forgotten. Also ..I know if I wanted I could fight the will since his dementia had all ready started when he did the will but I feel that will only benefit the lawyers with small sized estate anyway.

This is so indicative of how people need to be honest , not take advantage and share expenses instead of burdening others . It's. It fair to anyone

Def u deserve to not be completely supporting her ...so hopefully u feel ok with frank discussion including perhaps some retroactivity. Someone commented about wills leaving less to a child who is perceived as being well off and not needing an inheritance ..from what I've read ..unless their is an ongoing issue of discord or estrangement parents really should leave their estate equally to all children unless they want to cause discord and unhappiness for all ..def would not comtrivute to their children continuing a loving relationship of family if one is excluded OR conversely one is left more

Midkid58, why did your brother 'fire' you? I have so much to learn....!

Although I am not in principle opposing to pussy-footing around (I'm not a good conflict confronter) I rarely see it work with the elderly. It's more difficult for someone who is aging to pick up on the subtleties, and they were likely only to pick up on subtleties when they were younger if they were interpersonally competent. We're very good at ignoring things that are not in our interest unless we're very empathic. Pussy-footing around (which, again, I do upon occasion!) is really a passive-aggressive approach to handling a situation. I like the approach noted above of being more straightforward about expenses, indicating that they have increased over the years she has been staying with you (which is certainly true!), itemizing them, and asking with which she would be able to contribute. Please keep us posted. And, yes, your husband MUST be a key part of this conversation.

My folks were SUPPOSED to pay for the renovations to brother's home that created the apartment for them in exchange for the care they would need...no actual "discussions" ever took place and certainly nothing on paper to make it legal. Yes, brother gained an 800 sf addition to his home, but when the reno was done, folks had to admit that older brother had swindled them out of about $150K and they didn't have any money to pay for their new accommodations.
Big mess--family drama, brother almost lost his house.....in the end we worked it out, but the rift remained. Mother is alone now (21 years there, daddy passed 14 years ago) and pays for the cable only as her "part" of the bills. And complains mightily about it.

IMHO, mother should be paying around $500 a month for the services she receives at brother's family's hand. She doesn't drive, must be taken everywhere...she is always in need of something or someone to do for her. She's in poor health--at 88 she's could easily live another 10 years. They are all exhausted and wish they had never, ever moved the folks in.

As a family, we chipped in and paid for the renovation, so brother wouldn't lose his home. I've been a PT CG for mother until very recently when brother "fired" me, so I'm now off the hook. It's all on him now.

Mother has no CLUE as to how much things cost and doesn't realize if she had an ALF situation, she'd be out between $4-7,000 a month. She balks at the $75 cable bill!

I would never, ever, ever add on to my home to move in an aging parent. I would work 3 jobs before I would have one live with me. I've seen the demise of a once close family over MONEY.

BEFORE is the time to talk dollars and cents. Not after. It's a big elephant in the room. My mom lords it over her friends who are struggling, financially, as she can play with her money and shops constantly. Brother's family has suffered and struggled over the years--most years the rest of us sibs slip him several thousand dollars to make it over the next year---and that's not fair in the least.

It's not like brother will be made whole when mother dies. We stand to inherit less than $10K a piece.

ok- QUESTION?? because I am in a similar situation- Who paid for the renovations? I ask because my mother paid 30 thousand dollars for her renos at my home so that she could move into my house.-the whole full m-i-l suite, etc. The idea and original verbal agreement was that after 5 years of no rent, we would re address and if she still wanted to stay, we would work out a plan for rent because her renovations would be a plus to us- Well, 8 years later- mama is now cognitively challenged, blind and cannot walk. She has NO plans on moving and is confused about money. Yes, the renos improved my house- but had she stayed elsewhere it would have cost a lot more than those renovations by now. You could get prices from nearby places based on her health problems and compare how much she has saved over these 8 years. Do you or your husband have POA? You can enter her into a rental contract if necessary. You may want to consult with an elder lawyer. Time to be realistic esp. if she has money to throw around .

I think your husband should be the one to handle. I would just ask but be prepared for the worse. I can't imagine never offering to pay.

Here is my opinion. If you want the rent only because you are feeling used but don’t really need it, let it go because there is no good outcome here.
But, if finances are truly an issue, if you don’t have your own retirement secure, then you absolutely should have the money discussion, but your HUSBAND must take the lead.
If he is a wimp with regard to his Mother you will have already lost the battle.
If he takes the lead, then MIL will come around, albeit grudgingly.
If there are siblings they should also be part of this conversation, but separately. If together, sides will be chosen immediately and the battle begins.
Honesty, as always , is the best policy. Real need trumps resentment or jealousy of her actions toward others.
And if any discussion you have with her or the reason you have it is based upon what she might or might not leave you, you have already started down a very slippery slope.

A family round table may help. Sometimes just plain information sharing and asking for ideas and putting it all out for review can produce great results. A balance sheet of income and expenses (not necessarily telling your income but where that expense has been being paid from) will help clarify the situation. I was caretaker in my MIL house, living in, and she was resentful of my presence.
When I calculated up the cost of the services I was rendering, that she was not
paying to be performed professionally, she was getting a bargain. You might
want to have checked out what rent in an assisted living facility would have cost her for the past 8 years. I would suggest coming to the table with the request for her to help you figure out how to deal with all these numbers since it is
quite overwhelming. Then you all can brainstorm some ideas. If you already have thought through some ideas and have information to offer, it will be easier to work through. You may want to just do information sharing and then
plan to talk about it later after everyone has had time to think about it. You may
want to do that more than once before an acceptable plan can be formulated.
You can try that, and then re-evaluate ever so often as needed. That will give room to accept a very small concession for a time, then go back to the table with "How is this working for you?" and "How is this working for me?", " What can we do to modify so it works better?" etc.
I think the key is "confess my weakness" and give opportunity for them to
"pray for me" and be the facilitator for my "healing".
Blessings on your adventure in peace.

I feel your MIL has taken advantage of you and your spouse for 8 years. To go back 8 years as a 'do over' and set some ground rules as far as expenses, is not possible. But, I think a good sit down talk with her, explaining the monetary situation is the only way to approach it. Have your household expenses written out in a simple list for her to see. Then tell her that it's time for her to contribute to the household she calls 'home'. If the siblings find it 'unjust' on your part, then they should step up to the plate and offer her a home with them.

I haven't read all the posts but will chime in. We did not do a remodel but my Mother lived with us. We were fortunate that, before her dementia got worse, she offered to pay rent to help with bills. We decided on $300 a month. She realized how much it would have cost her to be in a home or assisted living. Time to sit down with your Mom and just have that conversation.

Before my mom moved in with us (81 years old, dementia, and cancer), we checked out assisted living facilities. The going rate was between $4,500 and $5,000 a month just for basic needs (anything else---such as keeping her small dog---was extra). She said she "refused" to go to assisted living. I might mention that I have 2 siblings, one with a 2,500 sq. ft. home for 2 people and the other with a 3,600 sq. ft. home. Neither of these siblings made the offer for Mom to live with them. Our house is 1,200 sq. ft. and 5 people live here---me, my husband, our 2 grandchildren, and my mom. I am a retired teacher but substitute taught for extra income. I gave up this job when she moved in, so I only thought it was fair that she make up my income. This was less than half of what she would have had to pay in assisted living. So, she pays us $2,000 a month and then we pay all utilities and food costs. I thought this was only fair since I gave up my extra income. She is able to pay this out of what she receives on a monthly basis without digging into her savings. Some people have told me that I should be charging her whatever the assisted living would have charged. I hope this helps. The thought of charging my mom, who was the best mom to us growing up, was at first reprehensible to me; but after we considered what we gave up financially (and also gave up our time and privacy), it only seemed fair.

I would definitely make her pay her share. If she doesn't want to, you tell her she'll have to move because you can no longer afford to pay for her share of everything. My mother helps pay everything - mortgage, groceries, etc.

What’s interesting is parents of that era had no trouble asking their kids to pay something if they stayed home past college. Hmmm. Too bad this has gone on for 8 years. What happens if your mom gets to the point she needs to move to AL? She’d have to pay then right? Even if she has a will or trust with a portion going to you that may be gone if she lives a long life and needs AL or NH care. I would definitely come up with an amount to cover food and utilities and tell her you’ve seen dramatic increases over the years and need her to contribute her portion. If you need advice on how to approach it, go talk to a financial advisor you use, pastor or counselor to get ideas on how to approach her.

Absolutely, yes! Check into comparable apartment rents in your area. This is a good starting point. Factor in all utilities including TV and telephone. My Mom, age 84, living 12 years in her specially built, 800 sq ft senior apartment with full kitchen, ADA bathroom, and separate laundry, was happy to "chip in" as she did not want to feel like she was burdening us with expenses that she would be responsible for if she was living alone. She has no more bills, bank loans, home repairs. My Mom happily gives us $1000 every month to provide her with an easy, safe, and secure life. This is almost 1/3 of her income. It cover all her utilities and groceries (I do most of her cooking now), my cleaning services and assisting her in bathing, and chauffeuring her anywhere her heart desires. She loves that our family lives together and that the grandkids and great grandkids come for visits often. Keep your approach light and happy. Just explain that you would be "grateful for her generosity" if she would help by "contributing into the family budget."

I can't imagine why you never asked her to contribute in the first place. I can only think that your husband wanted his mother to think he was the benevolent son. Having spent so much money on providing for her and living for the past eight years in only half of your own home which presumably you contributed towards, you are right to at least expect her to pay her own utility bills (are they separately calculated for her suite?) or a share of the total household bills. I would personally not pussy-foot around dropping hints about increasing grocery prices but have an open and frank discussion about how expenses have escalated since your original agreement eight years ago and how you need her contribution. You will soon see how much your MIL values what you have done for her. I also agree that if she is spending frivolously you need to check on what happens to whatever estate she has because you deserve some recompense for sharing your property with her, and for having her in your orbit for a big part of your married life. My mum has lived with me for 12 years now and although she is almost bed-ridden she pays her share of all household bills that are for her benefit and she still pays for her own food as her diet is completely from ours (her decision).

I can see how you're feeling used. It would have been better to start out differently but you and your husband should renegotiate. She could assume that you two don't need anything and leave her estate to the rest of the family. And what if there is no god to set things straight? Your mother in law could live a long, long time--many people are living past 100 these days.

Mom lives with us. She pays electric and water bill for the home and complains about every drop of water used and every kwh. I tell her I will gladly divide everything up into equal portions and she can pay 1/4 of the entire costs of maintaining the house. It’s very difficult to discuss money with parents and she does take advantage of our generosity often. She salves her conscience by telling evereyone...”oh they have lots of dough”. LOL I personally would get at least a token payment each month.