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Our aide likes to party when she is not working. Technically aren't we supposed to have her in the house since she is live in? We do not mind that she wants to go out but its excessive and she has been very irresponsible about it. How should I set boundaries and legally what can I do? If I tell the agency she will be fired. Thank you

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How is this aide paid. For a 40 hr week? Because any more she should be paid overtime. She can't work 24/7. Her time off is her time off. Is she suppose to be with Mom every night?
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FloridaDD Dec 2019
It depends on the state.   NYS has a rule that if someone is live-in, and they are given 8 hours of sleep time (at least 5 of which must be continuous) and 3 hours of eating time, they must only be paid for 13 hours, even though their contract is that they are there full time.  I do not agree with this.   It appears that OP uses an agency, so the OT is their problem.
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I am confused.   If she is through an agency and if you tell them she will be fired,   you can certainly give her a warning.   Live-in does not necessarily mean 24/7, but it seems in case, it does.
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How is she irresponsible about it? Does it interfere with her job? If not, then what she does on her own time is not your concern.
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FloridaDD Dec 2019
I am guessing that if the person is out and about all night, she will be exhausted the next day.
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She is paid for 16 hrs a day. She snuck a man in the house and took my parents car without asking.
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FloridaDD Dec 2019
If she is through an agency, I would ask for a replacement
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So.....why are you concerned that she will be fired if you tell the agency? She’s partying until 5am.....she stole your parents car (taking a car without asking=STEALING).....she snuck a man in to the house.....sounds to me like she needs to be fired. Honestly the agency needs to know about all of this!
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I sort of don't understand how you can dictate what she does on her time off? I assume you are not paying for for 24 x 7, and would that even be legal? Unless she is waking everyone up at 5 am,, then that would be a politeness issue. I also don't see where she took the car, or brought a man into the house, but maybe I missed another thread? Or someone has PMed her and has more info than is here? I think she is deserving of a break of her own, we all complain all the time about how we don't get a break.. and this CG is doing the same job we all do.. just getting paid for it.. Opps, just saw the bit about the car and man,,, my bad. Maybe some house rules are needed.. But if she is a live in,, why are you not supposed to have her in the house? That is sort of the point of a live in...
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
Pam there’s no other thread or info in profiLe .the OP replied with the information about the car and sneaking a man in.
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Aside from the naughty behaviour I'm wondering, 16 hour days 7 days a week - is that even legal?
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
The Op never said she is paid to work 7 days a week. She just said she’s paid 16 hours a Day. She may have weekends. Regardless she’s in a live in worker so the laws that apply are very different than standard labor laws.
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My general (legal) recommendation is to not fire people for their behavior off the job. If a person isn't effectively doing the job for which she or he was hired, then it is appropriate to dismiss the person. So, in this situation, focus on the person's job performance. If you want to, give the person a warning, but don't say, "You can't have a personal life." Instead say something like, "You've been making mistakes while caregiving. These mistakes aren't acceptable. If you make any more, we will dismiss you."
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pamzimmrrt Dec 2019
I agree,, we are currently seeing a young gal who works at my hospital, who reported a safety concern about another department. She works nights, so remember their day/night schedule is reversed from ours. She and some others went to a brewery and she had a "flight" of beers, one ounce each of 6 brews,, not even a full can for the rest of us. She unfortunately posted pix on FB.. of 6 oz of beers at 8 am.. not reporting to work until 7 PM. She went home and slept, like the rest of us do after work.. and they are trying to make a case that she was "drunk on the job". Oh boy have things changed! If the CG is slacking on the job that is one thing.. but her time off is her own
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As long as she shows up when she is supposed to.
Is not under the influence. (you could do a drug test) or request the agency do so.
Does not endanger herself or the person she is caring for.
Does not do anything illegal while on your property (includes DUI)
You can not fire her. (some states an employer can fire an employee for no reason)
Unless she is under age you can not set a curfew.
As long as she has keys to the house she can come and go when she is on her time. If she does not have a set of keys I suppose you could say that the doors lock at 1:00 am after that she has to find another place to spend the night.
And I hope she is not using you car while she goes out. Just in case she does over indulge.
But..
a few questions.
Does she do a good job? Is she trustworthy? Do you really want to keep her? If so this might be a sit down and have a conversation and just tell her that if the behavior continues you will have to report her to the agency. Give her a chance to straighten out.
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
The OP can fire her. She’s not trustworthy. Did you read the comments? Just asking because I am asounded that she’s being defended after stealing a car and sneaking someone in to the house!
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She needs to be fired.........sneaking a man into your house & stealing your parents car to go out is not ok, in my opinion. If you don't want her to be fired by letting the agency know of her behavior, then you are condoning it.
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It seems she’s pushing to the limit. If it were me- I get needing a break but given the inappropriate time and discretion, she needs to respect your position. The agency could drop the case as well. You don’t want to compromise their care.
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I think maybe her care receiver is bonding with her and wants to control where she is and with whom. For me it sounds like she is 'living at home' but being paid for services and she shouldn't have a life.
To do this kind of work you would have to literally give up your social life. I wouldn't want to be told what I can and can't do on my time off and not be able to have a guest over occasionally.
This must be a family situation. Something sounds off. No, they need someone older who has no outside interest other than maybe going to the park or the library and scoot back home to sit in their quarters and be good with that.
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GraceNBCC Dec 2019
Bringing a stranger into my home, without my explicit permission, even if you live here, puts every person there at risk. If she goes to their place, not your issue!
Taking the car without permission means she needs to be reported to employers & police so future potential employers are aware.

It is hard to get help to work such long hours. You may need plans for a second worker to allow 2 days off for primary worker I the future. Workers are legally entitled to days off...not just 8 hours to sleep. So work that in future plan.
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OK I just saw this from the OP:

"She is paid for 16 hrs a day. She snuck a man in the house and took my parents car without asking."

My goodness why would you have us focus on setting a curfew when something like has happened? And I don't mean having a guest (man or otherwise), I mean taking the car without permission.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Exactly! She is not the right fit and a disaster waiting to happen.

If she is from an agency you can ask for a replacement. Shouldn’t be a big issue.
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Years ago, my mom had a care giver who brought her boy friend over. We asked the agency for a replacement
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Yes, who brings a boyfriend to any job? Ridiculous! Kids too. Unless you have an agreement to be able to bring a child I don’t think it’s very professional. If the child needs attention it takes time away from the elder.

By the way, I am not a child hater. I love children but not at work.
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So with a live in caregiver is there a specific contract regarding what hours she has as free time? Just wondering how that works.
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Honestly, what she does on her own time is her business, unless it involves bringing strangers into your home and stealing a vehicle. If it was okay, sneaking would never happen.

Time to find a new caregiver.

Remember that you can not expect someone to stay at home 24/7, it is unrealistic and you will always have problems by placing unrealistic expectations on an employee.

Put your house rules in writing for the next one and give it to the agency, make sure you get a signed copy.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Great advice! Put it in writing and no one can question a discrepancy later.
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Are you paying her minimum wag 24/7? If so, then that's a whole TON of money, so yeah, guess she should be there. But somehow I think perhaps you are NOT paying her an hourly minimum wage 24 hours a day. Two days a week? Perhaps she has a boyfriend and that is THEIR time?
If I otherwise liked and appreciated that aide I would treasure her, and I wouldn't give it a thought. You have not bought an entire life. She isn't your slave. She is someone working for you in an arrangement that seems to fit both your lives. If she is not a good fit anymore, and you believe you can do lots better, then by all means.......
You hired her through an agency for 24/7 daily live in? Wow. Didn't even realize there were such places until I saw a New York Times article exposing what is expected of workers from other countries (often enough) for 24/7.
I can only think that is very exploitative. And if this woman is working for you with no time off? That is not honestly lawful IMHO.
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Rbuser1 Dec 2019
I agree. She isn't an indentured servant, and it's against the law (EEOC) to discriminate by asking about a person's lifestyle outside of the job. Can you imagine any employee saying you have to abide by a curfew are you alright with that? I can't. So many problems with this kind of thing.
They should be saying 'NEXT' or helping with their mom more?? And clearly OP isn't up for what she wants the CG to bow to. Not blaming her either, jmo. It's not easy any way you roll the dice.
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I think one of the issues here is that the OP seems more concerned about the "curfew" than about the car or the boyfriend. I'm not saying he or she should be, but he or she is.

I think the employee might want more time off. Just because someone is paid to work 16 hours per day doesn't mean it's a good idea for that person to work 16 hours per day. Whoo-hoo! The employee gets 8 hours off every day! Would any of us like to have her job?
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The caregiver hired by the OP could join the aging care forum. I think she would win the prize for the ‘caregivers behaving badly’ thread, right?
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I agree that if staying out till 5 am effects her job, than that is a problem.

Bringing a stranger into my home and taking my car without permission would be the reason she got let go. I bet she gas no license or insurance to cover her driving your car.
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OP, you have not answered the question, What are her days off?

You have said she is paid 16 hours a day.

Where does she live on her days off? Or is her only home? If it is her only home what sort of quarters does she have? Her own suite, a bedroom in the main part of the house? If she has her own suite, I do not know if you can legally stop her from having an overnight guest. It is her home.

The car was not stolen, it was used without permission. Legally these are very different things.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
That’s what I was wondering too. There has to be some stipulations in place. Kind of vague.
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Sounds like you are raising a teenager, not hiring a caregiver.
The easiest way would be to get a new agency, then you are not firing the caregiver, but choosing a different company to do business with. She goes, the agency goes.
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FloridaDD Dec 2019
Or OP can tell the agency, and they can find a new one
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What hours is she contracted to work? What she does with her time outside those hours is absolutely none of your business - as long as she's back on duty, fit for work, when she's supposed to be.
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coming in at 5am IS your business though. Your house=your rules. Live in caregivers still have to follow the house rules. They don’t get free reign. If coming in at 5am is disruptive you have the right to address that. Especially if she’s coming in at 5am and starting her shift just a few hours later.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
I agree, Cali. The car and the boyfriend visiting.

I know someone that hired someone as a babysitter and she was a typical teenager on her phone. She was talking to guys online and one of them asked for an address to send flowers.

She didn’t want to give her home address and she gave the address of the person’s house she sat at. She was immediately fired.

Most people are not going to want strangers in their home or even flowers sent by someone they don’t know.
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She is a live-in. I imagine she has use of the car for work purposes. How is that line drawn? Has she been permitted to use the car when she needs for personal reasons? If so, I think it would be difficult to show that she can only use the car when related to caregiving tasks. And maybe folks told her she could use the car when she needed?

As far as guests, this is her home, correct? This is a tough one. You cannot dictate what she does on her time off. But, you can limit who she invites into the home.

I imagine you are not living in the same household, Anon? Your profile says you are caring for your father, Jenny 41 years old, with Parkinson's and stroke?
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
It wouldn’t be difficult at all because she is an employee and is to use the car for work related tasks. It’s very easy to prove. Common sense prevails.
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I have dealt with a few agencies, Not one of them allows their employee to work a shift longer than 10 hours...with 2 of that being overtime

when I needed to have 16 hours covered... the agencies provided TWO people to do this,

so...I think the OP is blowing smoke, Paid for 16 hours? A from an agency? I think it isn’t legal and the agency would not ever allow it
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
It’s legal to work 16 hours and what agencies do will vary from agency to agency, state to state so your own experience doesn’t mean the OP is blowing smoke!
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I can't understand how anyone can make the choice to allow someone to move into their home to care for a vulnerable family member and yet be reticent about sitting down with them to have an adult discussion about any problems that arise. Assuming they are being treated fairly (would you be comfortable having your daughter in this position?) there is nothing wrong with setting a few reasonable house rules. If you generally like her work but the problems continue then you need to decide if it is better to accept the devil you know or to make a change. When you opt for change then you can simply tell the agency that there is a personality conflict and leave it at that.
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FloridaDD Dec 2019
Many of us are not used to have household help, and many more not used to having live in help or help that uses our cars.  It is a new experience, and frequently comes at a time when we, as caretakers are already stressed.   I have no issue about telling the agency, but I think honesty is the best policy.  This is not just a personality conflict.
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cwille,

Yes, why keep someone if you aren't happy? Call the agency and tell them to send someone else. She is not bound to that person. They could even switch to another agency if they wanted to.
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If Friday and Saturday nights are her time off, then it is her business, however, if she needs to be working Saturday morning and Sunday morning but is hung over and unable to adequately perform her tasks, then that is your business.

BUT
the sneaking in a man and the borrowing of the car?!!!
She needs to be gone.
TODAY!
Tell the agency what she has done.
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Anonymous, her all-nighters are the least of your problems. She snuck someone into your home? (I presume the boyfriend is not known to you.) Took your parents' car without permission? What kind of supervision are you providing to the carers of your family member. Hiring a caregiver isn't the end of your responsibilty for an aging parent.

It sounds as if you probably 'got' her cheap and expect the world. She shouldn't be expected to work sixteen hours a day (with only time to sleep off). Where she goes and what she does in her time off is none of your business so long as she shows up for work on time and fit to work, rested enough, etc. Is she young, an immigrant? These groups are very exploited by the agencies who hire them and by the clients too, often. Maybe you need to work with an agency who takes more interest in their employees and their clients and makes sure all terms of employment are clear and fair.
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FloridaDD Dec 2019
Really?  Until Op tells the agency what is going on, we have no idea if they can find a suitable replacement.  Many temporary agencies in many fields will occasionally send out unsuitable employees.   If I were OP, I would call the agency to either get them to help with communicating rules, or finding a replacement.  

Some unmarried people want these live in jobs because they can save money.  If they are not part of a household, this really cuts down on expenses.   There have been people here who have posted, what do I do after mum dies, I have no job history, and will need to support myself.  This may be a viable alternative. 

If you do not like the labor law, vote for candidates that will change it --although I would note that even in New York, a liberal state, with the legislature and governor all Democrats, it is legal to pay residential live in employees 13 hours a day, as long as they get 8 hours of sleep time (at least 5 of which must be contiguous) and 3 hours of eating time.
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