Follow
Share

URGENT: I just found out that a dear friend is at her wits end with her parents who are both citizens of the USA and permanent residents of Brazil. Her parents have been living in Brazil for the past 20 years where her father worked until he retired. Stupidly, her father did not report his income to the IRS and therefore did not pay a dime into Social Security. Her parents get $300/month from Brazil's pensioner system because her father did pay taxes in Brazil. They own an apartment in Miami and they own an apartment in Brazil. Neither apartment is worth very much and, if sold, might raise $200,000 total.


Her mother has Alzheimer's and her father has Parkinson's. Her parents are begging her to bring them to Florida where she lives. She has asked me for advice and I am meeting her this evening for a drink and just want to make sure I give her the best advice I can.


I see no way for her parents to be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. But that's about all I'm sure of! Any other suggestions???

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Yep, just tell her she asked for advice, you gave advice and she chose to do it her way.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

NYDIL, thanks for the update. I think you made the right decision.

When someone asks for but ignores advice, then asks for monetary help, that puts a real strain on friendship. But it also is an indication that "once ignored", perhaps ignored in the future.

You would have no control over how any donated funds are spent. And if she and her sister aren't wisely marshalling the available assets, the request for donations could be an ongoing thing, in perpetuity.

I hope you feel justified and relieved by your decision.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

I do hear what you all are saying. And thank you, Sendhelp, for the concern. I do feel used. She asked me for advice and I gave her the best advice I could. My husband agreed with the advice. Now that she's gone against all good advice, I am floored that she and her sister are begging for money when there's money already, and more to come once their father's will (if he had one) is sorted. I am washing my hands of it. She got herself into this mess and can get herself out of it. I now see that I cannot help her in the way she wanted.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

I think if someone e-mailed me with a request to contribute to a GoFundMe collection, I would feel very uncomfortable, but also somewhat "used", especially if the family had assets to consider self funding.

I credit you for your compassion. You have a very kind soul.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

My question is...what happened to the money from the sale of their property? Did they have time to probate Dads estate? They had to know that they wouldn't get any help in the USA. Go funds...I think they should be illegal. One woman found someone set one up in her child's name that she Didn't authorize. She asked it to be shut down.

My neighbor needs a liver transplant. How did I find this out...on FB. Someone else started a go fund. This woman has a State pension and SS. Her husband a good pension, SS and was called back to work at 68. This means he can earn as much as he wants and no SS penalty. His employer provides the supplimental. They own their house and one at the shore.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Do not understand why any of the family mentioned would need any money, or any help.
Owning two homes, o n e in each country, flying back and forth to visit, selling the one condo, having another home to sell. (That would make about $400 k in assets to get them out of trouble with the IRS? Then occuring the normal processes of aging, her husband dying (sad), does not make an urgent pitiful case to beg for money on a gofundme site, imo.
NYDil, My heart goes out to you as you are being conned by a friend. Friend does not need your help, and will not be taking your advice in the future. Detach from them all, doing it with love. I just hate that you have been used. Do you think you have?
Sorry if I missed some things in the middle, reading the first and the last only.

Hoping you are ok, with your good heart for others.

Alzheimers is a terrible disease, not amenable to being funded, as there is no cure.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Just to clear up the confusion;
You can be an American citizen and be a legal permanent resident in another country also. That does NOT make you a citizen OF that country. It means you have the legal right to live there permanently. (I am an American citizen but I have a "green card" (a permanent legal resident of Mexico). I could take the test for citizenship and, if I passed, I would then have dual citizenship.

The mother with Alzheimer's can go back to Brazil and live there again, since she is a legal permanent resident (it doesn't expire). Usually, you have to live in a country for 5 consecutive years to qualify for LPR status. It sounds like it may be the only other choice she has if her children can't afford her care and the U.S. government won't pay.

It's not your problem anymore. Don't get sucked in.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Thanks, Garden, for the suggestion about the Brazilian groups, and I certainly will pass along the information.

Oh yes, Countrymouse, there have been two email requests to my husband and me and at least one to other friends whom we happen to know well.

From where I'm sitting, the poor (as in destitute) old mother should have been installed at the nursing home in Brazil because of her Alzheimer's. The daughters regularly flew to Brazil to visit, which would have been cheaper - and safer for all concerned - than bringing her to the US where they have no resources to support her.

Both daughters work - my friend makes more than her sister - but not enough money to pay for a nursing home or to pay for daily in-home help. And my friend has some serious health issues herself. I don't know what she was thinking when she reversed course.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

I feel sorry for the mother. I can't imagine the trauma of moving from your home country and into a situation with an infant and useless husband married to someone who seems to have difficulty comprehending the enormous challenges of the situation.

I do understand her dilemma; if this were my mother, I don't know if I could leave her in a foreign country. I guess I'd try to find a way to bring her home.

But to set up a GoFundMe page - well, to me that's really gutsy.

(I think this GoFundMe business has gotten out of hand.)

NYDIL, I am sorry that the situation turned out so poorly, but you've done as much as you can. I wouldn't feel obligated to contribute.

Is the husband working? Is your friend working?

It's sad that it turned out so poorly; seems like the death of the father might have changed the dynamics of the situation.

I hope your friend manages to find some way to get the assistance she needs, not necessarily just money, but actual care.

Has she contacted the Brazilian embassy? Brazilian groups? I know there are some in NYC b/c I watched a dance program (Bare Feet) on Brazilian style dancing. Maybe one of those groups could offer some help to your friend.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

So maybe poor decision-making is genetic in that family? I'd just build some good boundaries and let your friend solve her own problem. Some people never learn and expect others to bail them out over and over and over again.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

NYD - splutter, splutter - do you mean they're asking YOU (as part of their social circle) for money??????????
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Oh well.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Doozy of an update! Basically: friend did not listen to what I told her and now is begging for help.

My friend's father died suddenly last month while she was in Brazil preparing to move her parents to a nursing home she found in a quiet little Brazilian town and to pay for it with the money she raised from selling their condo in Miami. Then, she and her sister decided to MOVE THEIR MOTHER TO THE UNITED STATES!

Yes, friends, their mother with Alzheimer's boarded a plane and now is living with my friend's sister, who has an infant, and her husband, whose useless, and now they all got together and started begging for money through email and Facebook. The GoFundMyPoorDecisions requests have become uncomfortable.

I cautioned her many, many times against bringing her parents/mother to the U.S. because her father did not pay taxes. I told her nursing homes are expensive and that her parents would not qualify for Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. I told her as many of the things I have learned from the wise people on this forum throughout the years and it turned out I wasted my breath, time, and energy. Sigh. Whine. Sigh.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

Thank you NYDaughter for the update. I'm glad to hear good news today.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

NYDaughter, yes, thank you for the update, that is good news.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Thanks so much for the update, NYDIL!
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Good news! My friend sold her parents' condo and that money, after she pays whatever taxes she must, will fund a room in a tidy little rest home in Brazil for her parents for at least a couple of years. She's getting important things done and is protecting herself and her own health from her parents.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

There are such things as IRS liens, but if your friend's parents hadn't received any notices in the mail from the IRS, there may not be any liens on the condo for estimated back taxes.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Back income taxes will not show up. Why wouldn't it be legal to sell?
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

A title search will need to be done before a sale of a house. Not sure if back taxes will show up if so, it's a lean that will have to be paid. If not, it's really not fair to the Realstate agency or the buyer to sell property that may not be legal to sell. She really needs to get some advise. Her parents need to get this sorted out from their end.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

Frequent - Her parents are both US citizens living abroad in Brazil.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

NY, I agree with GardenArtist about not selling the condo right away. This complex matter needs to be straighten out first with the help from an Attorney, mainly one that specializes in real estate owned by non-U.S. citizens. And later find a Realtor that has handled such sells.

Do you know when your friends parents had purchased the condo? I wouldn't be surprised if it was back when they were U.S. citizens prior to moving out of the country. Or did they buy the condo as non-citizens? That a different ball game.

Anywho, the IRS will be involved as the Foreign Investment in Real Property Tax Act of 1980 is a United States tax law that imposes income taxes on non U.S. persons disposing of homes in the United States.

This is not a DIY project.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Supporting parents staying in Brazil sounds like the best way to go. Bringing them back to US would sure open a legal can of worms with the IRS and frankly I would be suspicious that they are seeing your friend as their "lifeline" and would probably take her down with them. This issue makes me wonder about all the retirees who head off to Central or South America because it is cheaper to live ....what happens when they are no longer "young" and basically able to care for themselves? Ought to consider the consequences down the road. But messing with the IRS is a BAD idea.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

She is not bringing them back. She is putting the condo up for sale to get cash to place them in a nursing home in Brazil. Thank you all for the good advice. And I will let you know how this all shakes out. It's neither going to be quick nor easy for my friend. She is both strong and realistic and is putting her health first. I learned that she does have some serious health issues to worry about.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Your friend needs to find an attorney FAST if she brings them back. IRS is a super creditor which means that if taxes are due, any social security that might exist is able to be garnished by IRS. There will be penalties for signup after 65 for Medicare that carry forward permanently. If they qualify for Medicaid after selling one residence since they exceed allowable exempt assets, if foreign assets exist they must be reported. She needs a calm legal opinion before applying for help because parents will have to provide records. They are NOT indigent with their assets. Brazil does not have tax treaty so no credits for US social security unless they paid in.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Barb's comment is one that's been churning in my mind, but she said it better than I could. I've been wondering as well if there's something else going on in Brazil, or with their lives, that makes them literally desperate to flee.

How much contact and how close has your friend been over the years? Have her parents ever expressed concern about political instability or something similar?
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

You might want to point out to your friend that her parents' poor planning does not equal her needing to solve this problem. The fact that they are hysterical and begging should make her pause. Not act.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

I agree with Windy. Your friend is definitely a caring person, but I wonder if she realizes the enormity of the undertaking, especially if she hasn't been that close to her parents for 20 years.

And I really would think twice, and 3 - 4 times before selling the condo just yet.

Just thought of another option, in responding to the resurrected thread on oxygen. It's the Hill Burton Act, which mandates through federal statute that hospitals and facilities built with HB funds care for certain levels of indigent people. I don't know whether it would apply to US citizens who've lived out of the country for 20 years, but at this point it's worth a try.

http://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/hill-burton_act_free_healthcar.html can provide more information.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

I hate to say this but you’re friend is about to get waylaid by this mess. I think she should think long and hard about accepting the responsibility. She will end up using her funds to save these guys.

“Begging her to bring them to Florida where she lives”. Oh boy....
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

This is going to take many, many moons to unfold. Thank you to all who took the time and care to answer. I just got back from having that drink with my friend. She is calling a real estate agent in the morning to sell the condo tax implications be damned because she needs cash in order for parents to have any viable options. Her parents' lack of planning has put her in the terrible position of having to fix their mess. I will provide updates as I get them.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter