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I am caretaker for my grandparents. They live in a downstairs apartment. It is only them on the lease. However 2 of my family members moved themselves in without asking and my grandmother just allowed it to happen. They cause a lot of problems. They have a loud dog that is not supposed to be there and my grandmother has been told by the office of complaints. They come in late at night playing loud music that has also gotten complaints. If I were to go to the office and talk to them is there any chance that they could tell my grandmother that her “visitors” need to leave as they aren’t on the lease? These people receive no mail there or anything, but they moved all their stuff in and have been living there. A couple months now.



Is there any chance the office will do this? Or will I just make things worse and get my grandparents evicted because that’s the last thing I need to happen. Grandma won’t make them leave. She sits and is upset about the things they do but won’t make them leave.

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If the visitors are adults over 18, they should be added to the lease. If your grandmother as lease holder does not do so, she’s most likely in violation of her lease. It’s up to the landlord whether they’d prefer to have your grandmother add them to the lease or they’d evict her for having unauthorized occupants. Either way, the landlord will sooner or later figure out that they are living there. It will be better for grandma to be honest with landlord now
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dkiely33 Jan 2023
It does not sound like the poster here wants them on the lease and the grandma is probably too nice to kick them out. They should not be added to the lease because that will make it much harder to evict them if need be, Tenants have rights too.
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So not much has changed since you last posted in December, right?

If your grandmother is not abiding by the terms of the lease (letting other people live there w/loud dogs, noise complaints, etc.), then what happens if she and your grandfather get evicted?

Will you make that your problem?
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'Or will I just make things worse and get my grandparents evicted because that’s the last thing I need to happen.'

That, is a very real possibility. Violations of the lease, might in some jurisdictions give them the options to go straight to eviction, if they want to get hard nosed about it. It would make your current problems seem very small, by comparison, if that happened (not that your current problems are small now).
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One way or another, the landlord is likely to receive complaints about loud dogs & loud music coming from your grandparents apartment, and either ask them to STOP the noise or move out. I think you're better off, as their 'caretaker', to address the issue head-on with the landlord and ask that these squatters either be added to the lease (which grandparents can refuse), or asked to vacate the premises as they are in violation of said lease. I'm sure the original lease that grandparents signed was for TWO adults and not more.

So, while grandma won't make them leave, the LANDLORD can make the squatters leave by forcing the issue of the original lease.

In reality, the bottom line is it's up to the GRANDPARENTS to put their foot down with the squatters. Otherwise, even if they get evicted from this place, the squatters can follow them to their new place an squat THERE b/c there are no boundaries being set down as grandma is too meek to do so.

You may want to have a Come to Jesus talk with Grandma before you do anything else. If no luck, then go to the landlord. But basically, you can't save the grandparents from themselves.
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babsjvd Jan 2023
Agree, the come to Jesus talk..
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It is more likely that that the landlord will send a notice to the people on the lease, your grandparents, and tell them that they are in violation of the lease and if the violation continues they will be evicted. They may be fined first. You might want to check the lease and see what the fines are for violating any part of the lease.
Who if anyone is POA for your grandparents? (If they are cognizant they do not need a POA) If they do have POA for Finances that person can tell the people that moved in to leave. HOWEVER...if it has been a couple of months with or without mail (they may have changed addresses on other things) they may have to be legally evicted.
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I was a landlord for many years, so I'll answer from that perspective.

One tenant, "Gloria," informed me that her two teenage nieces would be moving in with her and her husband and their baby. The lease was written specifically to accommodate Gloria, the husband and baby. It was a furnished townhouse, and I'd moved out one bedroom's furniture so they could put baby furniture in there, so I'd been an easygoing landlord. BUT. Two teenagers (sleeping in the den, which had no closet and didn't qualify as a bedroom) would up the water bill, and I paid for water. It would mean more people in and out of the house as they entertained friends, and more wear and tear on my carpet, my furniture, and more noise in a quiet neighborhood. Also there was the issue of whether the teenagers would have proper supervision when there alone; I'd never met them and had no idea why they needed a home, whether they'd be partying or what. Gloria wanted me to provide beds for the nieces, and the girls had a dog - but mine was a no-pet unit due to problems I'd previously had with pets. She wasn't willing to pay more rent. So I said no and didn't renew the lease when it was up a month or so later.

Landlords have to protect themselves and their property. Some tenants are undesirable for various reasons. I'd expect the landlord in this post to take the same viewpoint.
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I would say you may open a can of worms. Is grandmom just meak or afraid. Does she have cognitive problems? As Fawnby says, the landlord has the right to not renew the lease and have good grounds not to. The xtra two are not on the lease so landlord has a right to say they can't live there. I really think the landlord is waiting till the lease is up to tell ur grandparents its not being renewed. This is how a landlord next to me got rid of his tenants. No dogs were allowed. She brought in 2 of them, one a Mastif who got locked in the bathroom while she was at work. Yep, distroyed the bathroom. He said to evict her would take 6 months and $1000 dollars so he just waited it out. TG she found another place.

I would go and talk to the office. Explain that these 2 people moved in uninvited and that grandmom is upset but does not know how to make them leave. Maybe a letter can be written that its come to the offices attn that 2 people not on the lease are living in grandmoms apt. That this is in violation of the lease and these people need to move out within 3 days(or something like that) *If this is not done, then the authorities will be called to escort them and their dog off the property. (*That last sentence depends on the law of the Township they are in) Your grandparents age should factor into this. If it had been me and family members felt it was OK just to move in to my home, I may call the police to help escort them out.
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Adding: grandma has no cognitive issues. She just seems to always allow people to do what they want no matter how it affects her. I know nothing about renting and I couldn’t find much online so I figured I’d ask you all
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Kbelreivins

When people move into an apartment and sign a lease, they cannot let other people just move in. If your grandparents live in some kind of senior community that's rent subsidized they will likley get evicted for letting people move in. That's why you should speak to the building management for them on their behalf right away.
Tell them that these family members were just coming to visit but now refuse to leave.
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If your grandparents get evicted, they will have a terrible time finding another apartment. Landlords don't have to rent to anyone, they are very likely to say no to anyone with an eviction.

This will mean going through a private individual and those are usually scumlords.

Talk to the landlord and ask their help to get these squatters out now. I would say that the vulnerable seniors are scared and won't say anything for fear of retaliation. Give them permission to involve law enforcement.

You DO NOT want them evicted,it will create more problems then you can imagine.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Isthisrealyreal

Exactly right. The OP should talk to the building management on the grandparents behalf. They will probably give them a chance to kick their "guests" out without getting themselves evicted.
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It's not your problem. You don't control who your grandparents let stay with them.
You should most definitely tell the "office" about your grandparents' illegal "tenants" before someone else in the building does. This way the management will probably give your grandparents a chance to make them go and they won't get evicted.
Please go and talk to the management. Don't even tell your grandparents that you are speaking to the management.
In the meantime, do not listen to a second of your grandmother's complaining. Let her sit and be upset. She allowed these people to move in.
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This happens all the time - apartments everywhere are full of people not on a lease. And in almost all cases are in violation of the lease. This happened to a woman and her family near where I lived. She had several additional reckless people living there and when they got caught defacing the property I heard that she was charged thousands of dollars and had to move out immediately.

There was also another case where the tenant who lived below reported hearing a basketball being bounced on the floor through the night. The office found there were a number of people living there not on the lease. They were thrown out asap.

Can grandma understand that?
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I don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds like the family squatters are either drinking and/or doing drugs! Either way, they aren't on the lease! I hope you have other family members who can help you with this, but whether you have help or not, you need to go there early in the morning to catch them off guard, and tell them that they aren't on the lease and need to leave immediately and that the manager(s) are probably calling the cops! Bring garbage sacks with you for their crap! Tell them you got a motel room for them for a week (I'd just get it for a day)! As soon as you drop them off, get back to your grandparents apartment, change the locks and then drop extra keys off with the office! Make sure ALL the windows and entryways are locked up tight, and then call Adult and Protective Services! If they've been living there free, eating the grandparents food, and using ANYTHING that costs the grandparents money, APS will most likely consider that a form of elder abuse! Also, if the dog scares them or the people scare them, that's abuse! If APS sees any drug paraphernalia, they'll also write that in their report! You could also meet APS at your grandparents apartment after explaining what's going on, especially the late hours, loud music and possible eviction! Let them know that you don't know why, but neither grandparent will say anything to the family squatters! After APS helps you, or you get them out yourself, with or without the police, then I'd explain to the apartment manager what was going on and that it's been handled! These family squatters don't care about what happens to your grandparents, so please don't hold back or feel sorry for them! Like I said, it sounds like they're using alcohol and/or drugs! Please don't hesitate to inform APS and/or the cops about that! God bless you and I will pray for you! 🙏
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Good Morning,

They've got to go....this is exploiting the elderly. Right now in America there are 7 million young men from 25-40 years-old who are unemployed. Someone is supporting them and housing them. This could be an example.

More than likely your grandparents don't have the cognitive ability to see what is really going on. Your lease should read that anyone who resides in the apartment must be on the lease and also apartment insurance is a must. It is not that expensive and yes your grandparents could very likely be evicted because there is no one to protect them or supervise the situation.

This is a very good job market right now. There are all kinds of jobs. There is a labor shortage because of situations like this. You have to handle this carefully because you don't to want bring unnecessary attention to the apartment but have the men in the family get together and get a camera with a text to your phone so you know who is coming and going.

Have you checked their debit card, checkbook, opened their refrigerator. These types of situations are going on even in the best of neighborhoods. If they were there cooking, cleaning, laundry for a certain number of nights. Most apartment complexes allow you a certain minimum for overnight stays for example if grandparents come to visit a new born.

I agree with Burntcaregiver deal directly with the office and let them know what is going on. A grandmother's love is like no else and they know that. Are there medications around they could have access to.

Basically you have to make them more afraid of you. Let them know you mean business. I don't know what kind of dwelling this is but find out if you are allowed to change the locks without the office's permission. Follow the protocol and policies of the complex. Is their rent being paid on time and utilities? You want good credit in case they ever did have to move.

Sometimes with the elderly loneliness can set them up for other's who see an opportunity. In other words, if there are not other's around to check up on them these things can happen even in very well-to-do families with tons of money.

There is certain segment of young people today who do NOT have any order. It shows in their clothes, time of arrival for appointments and the way they keep their home, if they even have one. They couch-surf, squat, whatever, no guidelines for living. You don't want your grandparents final days to be part of this. The young flounder from job-to-job always blaming the boss. No religion, no Sunday dinners, no Aunt Mary to say to you, drop him, you deserve better.

This needs to be addressed immediately. Housing is a national crisis right now and there are plenty of people who need a place. Basically, it's a landlords market.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Ireland

You make a good point about is there any medications that would be appealing to freeloading squatters at grandma's place.
I agree with you 100%. I have been a renter and I have been a landlord. When I lived alone I had to work assignments that I didn't like and a lot of them. I kept my place decently too, My second husband and I owned an income property when we were married. When it was time to rent the apartments we started taking applications. Husband is far more of a bleeding heart than I am because he grew up in a very different environment and income bracket than I did. I remembered from years back when my first husband's freeloading cousin was with us and what we had to do to get him out.
With me I wanted regular drug testing for anyone who wants to live at my property. If there's going to be kids, there's going to be disclaimers signed so there's no lawsuits. An air-tight lease because the only people going to be living there are the names on it. Regular inspections too. No one's going to wreck anything I own. Credit checks and references too. Bad credit means the potential renter is likely not financially stable enough to keep up on the rent and the landlords will not be able to recover damages if they cause any. Long story short, my husband thought he knew better than me and it was nothing but a disaster. Luckily the place got sold.
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How well do you know these relatives? I would certainly be concerned about grandma losing her apartment but also about grandma’s overall safety and well as being taken advantage of.

Bypass speaking any further to your grandmother and go straight to the landlord and explain that she has a generous heart and that you fear that she is being taken advantage of.

This way she is off the hook from kicking them out. The landlord can address the issue. They aren’t on the lease so they aren’t supposed to be tenants.

Their behavior isn’t considerate of your grandmother. They are loud and disrespectful to grandma and her neighbors. Don’t give it a second thought. Have the landlord throw them out.

I might even ask the landlord not to mention your name when discussing this situation with her. So you won’t be in the middle of this mess.

Or perhaps ask the landlord to speak directly to the unwanted house guests so that your grandmother won’t have to be in fear of asking them to leave her home.

Good luck in resolving this issue.
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VictorianDoll Jan 2023
Great advice but has gray areas, when that happened to my mother. I went to the community to explain the situation, and asked them to please evict the guy. It was explained to me they could not evict him without evicting my mother as well. They advised me to get guardianship, POA and do it for her. That way she could stay in her mobile home. So I did.
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If you were awarded GDN ( guardian) by the courts, you can evict them, at least in my state (MI).
When I realized that my mother was having memory issues, losing her drivers license more than once, which started in 2016.
My mother was befriended by a young man, who cones her into her letting him move in. Then all of a sudden she started showing up with bruises( of course she fell ya know) always injuring her left eye. I then realized he was beating her. And I really started being at her house everyday only to find out she hadn’t taken her meds since 2019, then found unopened meds from 2016. All of her legal documents were missing from her old file box( her bread box) I had to take action. After receiving GDN I evicted him. After I had him evicted I found a copy of a life insurance policy that mom owned, with the young man named as her beneficiary, I found credit cards that were opened in moms name ( she couldn’t remember doing) of course they were run up to $1,600 or more. Moms birth certificate, marriage license, home purchase receipt gone. He was up to something but legally I couldn’t do much as moms memory was failing, and the man explained to the courts they were lovers.
Its important if your her GDN start eviction, if not apply for GDN, then evict. Don’t let them be victims!
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
How absolutely horrible for your mom and you. That is totally disgusting behavior. I am so sorry this happened in your family.
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Much more info is needed here. Are these relatives children or grandchildren of your grandparents? PLEASE Get a consultation with an eviction attorney (many consultations are free) before you notify the landlord because it may leave him no choice but to evict everyone. A lawyer can give you all the scenarios and the best choice of action which will clarify your final decision much better than we can here.
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dkiely33 Jan 2023
An eviction attorney is not needed ASAP because the grandmother on the lease has a legal right to be there while the others do not. The landlord or management company of the building needs to get involved.
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Considering the Office of Complaints has already been involved once and it doesn’t sound like it’s made much difference in the behavior it sounds like your grandparents could be facing eviction at some point anyway. If you think this could be the case you might be getting ahead of that and preventing it by being proactive and asking the landlord to step in. You will of course be bringing it all to a head before it might have otherwise and still end up with them all being kicked out, that’s going to depend on the landlord and maybe what kind of tenets your grandparents have been up until now but as a tenant yourself you have a much better feel on all of that. I totally agree with those who have suggested you ask the landlord to keep you out of it and explain that grandma needs help resolving this, it’s just too hard for her to turn out or away relatives in need even when she doesn’t like it and knows they are taking advantage. Good for you watching out for them and caring for them.
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What does the lease say about visitors? Most have a time limit for visitors. The landlord may just give grandmom a notice stating that her visitors are over the allowed time and must go or eviction proceedings will begin. That may get them out without going down the eviction path.
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The lease should state how many people are allowed in the residence.
Ask the office to write a formal letter stating the 'new' people were not authorized. by the owner of the property to move in and therefore, they must leave.

You / someone needs to have legal authorize over decisions your grandmother makes. She cannot do this herself 'if' she is deemed incompetent. If she is considered competent, there likely is nothing you can do in making decisions on her behalf, legally.

Yes, I would presume if the 'uninvited guests' do not leave that there is a risk of your grandmother being asked to leave.

I would hire an attorney or check with a tenant's union or legal aide non-profit and find out what your - and your grandmother's - rights are.

Gena / Touch Matters
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Getting advice from an attorney is smart!

One of my friends has worked as a paralegal for years. She stresses that people need to understand all of the specifics of their leases.

Some people aren’t aware of what their leases actually mean. An attorney could help clarify the terms if needed.
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Talk to the office. Usually, visitors are allowed a limited time to "visit". Let the office know when the "visitors" moved in. Then, work with the office to get eviction notices for the "visitors". Afterwards, try to set up an agreement that all "visitors" need to have a clearance from you and the local "office" in order to "visit". You may have to get the local police force involved to forcibly evict the "visitors". Don't shy away from this action if needed. Those family members have no problem taking advantage of your grandparents, and you.
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While your Grandparents' a home is their business, the notice ext does impact uou. Also you have concerns for their wellbeing, value ones.

Yes your Grandparents may choose to keep their loud guests with dogs.

Yet this choice may have deviating consequences for them. Loss of home, money, trust.

Do they fully understand the risks?

Just who are the dog owners? Is it possible to suss out how long to they plan to stay? Eg looking for a permanent place? Do they study? Work? Or appear to be grifters?

The later would steer me straight to the Building Manager/Landlord for advice - *asking for a friend* to find out what thei Landlord's position on long-term guests is.
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Beatty Jan 2023
Soz for all the typos - typed in the sun 😖
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Start with the office and see if they have any power to evict them. Explain the entire situation.

i highly recommend someone getting power of attorney for the grandparent's. These people may require a court eviction and I think it would be hard on your grandparents to deal with.

to evict someone you would need to file with the court. They will have a set amount if days the people have to be out and then the sheriff shows up and they are set out in the curb with their stuff. (I had a rental property)

I suggest doing some research for your state and County. Talk to the Grifters and tell them what you are going to do step by step. They are freeloaders and are taking advantage of your grandparents. Someone has to step in because Grandma is not able to handle this manipulation
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And this is why we can’t have anyone that we dislike or don’t trust ever spend the night in our homes or apartments. They may not want to leave and then we face a mess like this.

Make sure grandma knows after they leave that no one else should sleep over, not even for a short period of time. Some people wear out their welcome!

It’s terribly sad that your grandmother is in this situation. I hope that it is resolved soon
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Need

Sad to say but even people we like and have trusted have the potential to take advantage. Especially if they've become needy. Like elderly parents. Unemployed or impoverished relatives who can't afford their own place anymore. Friends and family who need someone to watch their kids or old people because they have to work or do something.
Friends and family often take the worst advantage of kindness and charitable behavior.
Grandma lives in an apartment and most apartments have tenant leases. If she's in senior housing she definitely signed a lease and a strict one at that. Grandma was made well aware when she moved in that she can't move in other people because that violates the lease agreement and is ground for eviction.
Maybe she should get thrown out by the management and let that be lesson to her about breaking a lease agreement.
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Kbelreivins: The grandparents will have to do something about these squatters. If grandma does nothing, everything will remain status quo UNLESS the rental office receives multiple complaints from other renters. However, grandma is in a difficult place because she lets these people take advantage of her, but yet she does not want to be the person(s) evicted. Ergo, the landlord MUST be advised of the situation.
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I would call the landlord and let them know others moved in and they may not have been added to lease (you never know...g'ma could have had them added). You might tell landlord these new folks are the ones creating the noise issues that others seem to be complaining about.

Has anyone else in the family approached these newcomers about the possibility of getting g'parents evicted if the problems continue. I am only assuming, but sounds like younger people who have moved in (music, the dog, late night coming and going). So are these people grandchildren to your g'parents? If so, I would have a discussion with their parents about the position they have put your grandparents in....like potentially going to be evicted due to the chaos. G'ma shouldn't have to be the person to confront them if their parents are alive.

I wouldn't worry about being the one to cause eviction because there are already complaints from neighbors or landlord wouldn't have contacted her about a problem. Go for it. Those people need to get out.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
Great point! Who knows if grandma added them to the lease or not? I wouldn’t put it past her ‘so called’ houseguests to intimidate this woman.
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