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In short, my mom brings up dying, falling, breaking bones, dementia, having to relocate to nursing, family trust/wills/finances etc often. She has stated multiple times that believes she will die soon (even though there is no evidence from her doctors that that would be the case). She lives in a “65 and older” community where these type of things happen often. I completely understand that these thoughts or fears are very real/valid. Specifically, she lives in a progressive care community that provides every type of care possible. Every resident is on a care plan. Care plans range from 24-hour skilled nursing to a weekly call to check in. It’s a wonderful place and she wants to stay/live there. Which is a major blessing.


I have shared with her that it upsets me when she often talks herself dying. We talk daily and this probably comes up twice a week.


She does not talk about it with her friends (they don’t need to know her business) and will not speak to a professional (therapy and/or medication is for other people, she doesn’t need it). I still encourage her to talk to her friends or the staff even though she doesn’t feel that she has a need.


I understand she needs to process her fears in her own way and it just happens that her way is telling me. It’s likely not personal. She’s just doing the best she knows how.


I now take medication and go to therapy because I struggle with my relationship with her. My anxiety tells me end the conversation if she is not respecting the boundaries but my guilt keeps the convo going.


Can you recommend any books or articles on this topic? Every parent/child relationship is different so I’m looking for something that offers multiple approaches. Any reference materials would be great.

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Agingistough: Imho, perhaps give an example of how these "other people" did very well on therapy and medication, even if it's a faux story.
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I speak from a lifetime of experiences - I will be 88 in about a week. Please do NOT attempt to stop people from discussing certain issues because for some people this is a very valid personal need and when they are told to stop or people refuse to listen, it hurts them so deeply. Right or wrong they feel as if the other person doesn't really care and is not interested. This is one of the cruelest things someone close to you can do - I know - it is the truth. Not all of us are open and willing to speak our innermost fears and thoughts and others are far more open with others. For her sake, if you have any true feelings and love for her, let her talk - it is an outlet for her fears and feelings and she is expressing what she needs to get out of her system. What doctors, etc. say as to reality has no bearing on what people think or feel. What you can do is to encourage her to make sure every single facet of everything is l00% perfect and up to date. Then you can gently tell her she need not worry, everything is under control and taken care of. If you absolutely can't and won't let her talk, I don't know what to tell you. Your mental needs are totally different than yours and sometimes you will always be at odds. But for the sake of kindness and love, let her talk - it may lessen if she knows everything is in writing and in complete control. And be so thankful she wants to discuss things with you. How would you feel if you did not talk and something happened and now you had no idea what to do or how she felt about things she wanted done. You would not feel good about yourself and you would deserve to feel guilty.
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Riley2166 Dec 2021
All my life, nearly 88, I listened when I sensed someone need to talk - about anything - even if I was not interested or did not want to talk or listen. Well, I did it anyway and as a result, I saved the lives of three people - I will always be there for anyone who needs me and thinks enough of me to open up to me.
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why doesnt she feel there is a need to talk to staff or a counselor or pastor ?. Not only can she share without the emotional connection being her daughter, but they may have wisdom or affirm her feelings.
Is she sharing that it is closure, like my time is short and i want to know you will carry on without me, or is it like i am dying and fearful? Either way you have a right to say "I need to take a break and walk away, you know this upsets me. We talk about it without any answers so I am not the one to tell"
You have to be firm with yourself if you feel guilt to keep the conversation going. Your stress is unhealthy. Listen to your counselor. See what books she recommends on boundaries and elderly. Best wishes.
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It sounds as though you are the one getting stressed over these conversations not your mother who you think is afraid of these things. PERHAPS she is not afraid of the topics she brings up but thinks that you are not taking enough notice of her and so she needs to bring it up again. (This is not a criticism of you, it is a suggestion of her state of mind). Maybe rather than shying away from talking about it, you need to have a real sit down discussion at which you take notes on what she says and she can then agree with what you have written. Perhaps then she will feel things will be as she wants - both sign and date it if it is what would make it more definite for her. She doesn't want friends or staff involved which suggests she trusts you - but she wants to be sure you have it straight. I accept it will be a hard conversation for you but if in future you can say we've put all that down Mom and change the topic you will be less stressed going forward. I may be completely wrong in my interpretation of her behaviour, I can only say what I have found with my own mother - she needs to feel things are in order and then she will leave the topic alone. Good luck .xx
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My SO had a genuine NDE. He had been fishing in the SF Bay, and the water came up fast on him, so for a couple minutes he was in danger of drowning. He didn't see "people" but he sensed presences saying it was OK and a overall sense of peace.

Our favorite cousin was dying of cancer. He wrote her to just say that he'd seen the other side and in his opinion, it was wonderful. I found out after her service that she had had a long discussion with her pastor about it, said pastor that delivered the service.
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When I was 16, my mother showed me a sexy outfit she bought for a weekend away with my dad. It was a purple feather-trimmed corset with split crotch panties. You want to talk about difficult conversations???

But that’s my own therapy-induced moment that I’ve since made peace with.

I suspect your mom keeps bringing it up because she has a lot of fear. However, the more you shut her down, the more she’s scared, so she just keeps bringing it up.

First off, you need to validate her feelings. Say: “I’d be worried too, mom, if I were going to die. But we all go in our own time.”

You haven’t mentioned Heaven, so I’m not sure if you’re religious, but that definitely helps with the death talks. A delusional fantasy or not, thinking that we will see our loved ones once again is a comfort. For me, I don’t know about Heaven, but my maternal grandmother used to see ghosts (yes, she was THAT kid from the movie) and so I do believe there is some form of afterlife. My father also said he felt spirits around my other grandmother when she was dying in the hospital. I don’t know, but I like to believe that they’re both true.

By you shutting these conversations down, you are closing the door to a chance to comfort her. Yes, at your expense, but I want you to focus instead on why you are trying to avoid talking about it? Is it the fear of losing her? Does it make you think of your own death? What are you afraid of?

Have you seen the show “The Good Place”? If not, I heartily recommend it - so funny. The character, Elinor, at one point says that everyone on earth is always a tiny bit sad because we know that at any moment, our lives could all be done and we could die. It’s what makes us human.” I think to move forward with this last stage in your relationship with your mother you need to make peace with whatever makes you want to avoid these conversations. I suspect that’s the key to your becoming free.
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Your mother needs to be able to express these feelings to someone and for now, it has been you. A "professional counselor" is an understandably off-putting thought, and many "professionals" simply spout textbook platitudes back to clients and are worse than useless.
Would your mother be willing and able to write out some of her thoughts and fears? It helps the worrier to articulate thoughts and fears and writing them can serve the purpose if there is no one talk to.
It would be helpful if you could tolerate at least knowing what your mother's wishes are, but when the repetition is too great, have her write things in a " journal, " Getting thoughts written into coherent sentences helps get them off of the mental "hamster wheel" in one's head.
You can give her pens and a composition book with a pretty cover for Christmas.
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Remember its not about you. She trusts you and wants to share with you because she is trying to prepare you for the inevitable. If you have a fear of death it might help for you to talk with a therapist.
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Dying is part of life and nothing wrong with talking about it and trying to get you things in order which I think us a good thing.

To think mom needs to be on drugs just because she brings the subject up is ridiculous.
Since you're the one who seems can't handle the conversation, it's too bad for your mom.

Are there any other Siblings mom can talk to?

Maybe while you're in Therapy, you can come to find out why you can't handle the talk.

So, in your case the next best thing would be books on dying. You can Google it and buy a good one after reading some reviews.

In the meantime, maybe instead of mom talking about it, give mom a special Notebook and have her right down all her Questions, Thoughts and or Fears and then Write what you think about each one and give it to her to read.
Or,
You might try to find a place where ya'll both can go regarding the subject death/dying and let her have her questions answered there.
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When you spend time with a high school student, you hear more than you want about the college admission process and dorm decor. A prospective bride likes to discuss, in great depth, veils, cakes, invitations and reception flowers.

This is her age and stage. These are her concerns. It certainly is painful to imagine her going through the end of life, but try your best to be a good friend and listen.

If she wants to discuss funeral planning in depth and it is simply too painful, you could always ask her to put down what she wants in writing for her executor.

You may find that many years from now you need the information she is sharing.

I remember one day, many years ago, when my dad was still strong and healthy and he told me exactly where he wanted to be buried. I wanted to stick my fingers in my ears and scream because the mere thought of life without him on earth was too painful to bear. When he ultimately passed away and I was overwhelmed with funeral planning, I was relieved and grateful that we had that conversation and I could give him exactly what he wanted.
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What I am going to tell you might be harsh and I apologize..but...
Your mom is trying to have a difficult discussion with you and you should be receptive to it.
Your mom IS going to die. Law of averages have her dying before you.
YOU need to know what she wants.
YOU need to know does she want to be kept alive by machines.
Does she want to be intubated? If so for how long?
Does she want to be tube fed? If so for how long?
There is a form called a POLST (called other things in other states so check your state) and it is very detailed it is not "just" a DNR but it goes into detail about End of Life decisions.
There is a great pamphlet that can be useful called Five Wishes and it walks you through a lot of these conversations.

If this truly is a conversation you can not have for any number of reasons make an appointment with a lawyer (Elder Care Attorney would be best) and the Attorney can do all the paperwork needed that will make making decisions easier for you IF and when the time comes.

If the facility has a Social Worker that might help that could be a place to start.
If you truly can not have these conversations your mom should respect that and be willing to get things done with the help of professionals.
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There is also a very good book: "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High" by Kerry Patterson.
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Instead of listening silently, try making a list of her issues. After making the list, try telling her something along the lines of "Mom, I know these issues are bothering you and they bother me too. I am not a professional, so I am going to talk to a professional (your therapist) and get back to you about ______ when I have more information." "Let's talk about something that won't involve the need for a professional such as..."

Basically, you show her value by acknowledging her fears and concerns but you do not let it become the focus of the all your conversations. Ask your therapist for more suggestions about redirecting conversations.
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https://www.agingcare.com/questions/how-often-should-adult-children-visit-parents-or-how-much-effort-is-reasonable-471412.htm

In your first post you mention Mom is 70. That is not old. You mention she loves where she is living. You then mentioned she is passive-aggressive. Your Mom is a Debbie Downer. When she gets started you can say nicely, "Mom I really don't want to listen to things that could happen and may never happen. You are wasting your life worrying about things you can do nothing about. So lets not talk about these things again". Every time after that when she starts tell her you are hanging up or leaving because you can no longer listen to depressing things. I agree that Mom needs therapy too.

You need to set boundries now because Mom could live another 10 to 20 yrs. You are no longer her child but an adult. You should be able to talk to her as an adult, problem is you think as her child you may think its disrespectful. My daughter says the book by Cloud and Townsend is very good.
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The book Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend is a recommendation for you to read. Listening to your mother go on and on about doom & gloom, to your own detriment and anxiety, means that you need to learn how to set boundaries with her. I used to be my mother's only sounding board until her negativity drove me to the point where I felt like I needed anxiety medication MYSELF just to cope. Not a good idea.

https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Say-Yes-How/dp/0310209749/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1G3N0BQUO3D2X&keywords=boundaries+by+cloud+and+townsend&qid=1638906793&sprefix=boundaries+by+clou%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-5

Your mother does need therapy and/or medication and to realize that her behavior is harming YOU. Have you let her know that? Mom, I love you but when you go on and on about dying, it's affecting my health in a negative manner and I'll have to hang up the phone when you choose to get on that topic.

Back in 2000, I had a very traumatic experience which led to PTSD; I could not for the life of me stop dwelling on death; it kept me up at night, crying and worrying, to the point where I was a wreck. I realized it and went to the doctor who put me on Paxil. It helped me tremendously. But then again, I chose to help myself and not make my PTSD anyone else's problem. That's the key. Also, I started reading about NDEs which took away my fear of death completely. I recommend the book Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife by Eben Alexander

https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

Your mother may get a LOT of comfort from this doctor's words about his near death experience and what he took from it. If it calms her fears about death even a little bit without the need for meds or therapy, wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

Wishing you the best of luck.
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She draws boundaries with her peer group, who like her arranged to be there, probably in part to make friends.

She draws boundaries with the professionals that either the CCRC or Medicare is paying for.

Instead, you've been designated as the only confidante. Which isn't, frankly, why she chose to be in the CCRC. It's because she was planning in advance for some of the services now being required.

I'd handle this by saying, well, mom, you aren't dying today. You're living, and fairly independently (this had to be part of her personality for her to choose CCRC). I want to hear about how your LIFE is. Did you get out for a walk today? How is Betty who lived next door? Did you enjoy the concert that the CCRC had? And so forth.
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lealonnie1 Dec 2021
Exactly. When I'd ask my mother to tell me about her day (pre-advanced dementia), she'd tell me nothing good happened, nobody called, she had nothing to be grateful for, etc. Or, she'd be gossiping and complaining about the residents she hated at the ALF. All doom & gloom all the time. The only option I had, to preserve my own mental health, was to keep our calls and visits down to a minimum. Parents and people in general have a CHOICE as to how they behave themselves and we, in turn, have a choice as to how long we spend interacting with them.
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This might be one situation where talking to a Priest or other Minister of Religion might be helpful. Even if she doesn’t have close religious ties, it’s an appropriate conversation that doesn’t involve ‘sharing her business’ with someone in her day-to-day life. Most facilities have a visiting chaplain, and briefing the person might be helpful too. Worth a thought?
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MargaretMcKen Dec 2021
I should have added that my own family experience is that hospital chaplains have not been evangelists for religion, but have been caring and experienced about end-of-life problems irrespective of beliefs.
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My dad enjoyed these topics as he aged, bringing it up often. First I dealt with it as humorously as possible, calling him a prophet of doom and saying “here we go again” before changing the subject. Later, when his focus on it was more imminent and real, I’d just quietly say I understood his feelings. When you’re staring at the future and seeing far more yesterdays than tomorrows it’s understandable. Listen only the amount that’s healthy for you, trying to change the subject, or even saying you’ve had all you can take of the topic for one day. I wish you both peace
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