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Growing up in life I was always told by many these statements, (Never make a deal with family and never loan a family member money). May sound harsh to hear the truth but, that is a 100% fact to remember. I found that sometimes even attempting to help a family member in the long run ends up going sour or finger pointing.
Family relationships are just fine until families become involved with greed, money and control. Elderly's Wills & trusts play a big factor in family relationships. Caregivers go bad over greed and most elderly people use their Wills or Trusts to scam, obtain free help from family members.Sometimes it's hard to bare the truth.
I have a short story,
Two Sons named Joe , Mike and their Mother. Mike became Mother's POA and caregiver 7 yrs ago. Mike always had money and high dollar items. Joe always wondered where Mike was getting the money to buy these things. Everytime Joe went to the local casino Joe would see Mom and Mike their. Mom always had lots of money to gamble on. Joe always wondered if Mike was spending Mom's money but, He never had proof of it.
4 months ago Mike died in a car crash. Mike was Mom's POA. Since Mike died Mom has no POA. Mom came to Joe asking if Joe would take care of her. She told Joe if you take care of me, When I die you can have the house and all my money. Joe agreed to take care of Mom for two reasons,(1) If he didn't who else will! and (2) He will get it all when she dies. Greed was some factor in play. Dollar signs makes anyone see greed. So, Joe agreed to care for his Mother.

Joe became Mother's POA. Joe learned that Mike about drained Mother dry. Mother only has $20,000 and her house to her name. Joe would like to have the family house to keep in the family when Mother dies. But, that won't happen now because, Mother will need those assets for nurcing home or heathcare down the road. Mother is lieing to Joe saying that Mother has alot of money but, Joe now knows she don't. Mike & Mother gambled it all away yrs ago. Mother is using her Will to obtain Joes free help. Mother now has dementia and is very hateful to Joe. Joe doesn't feel guilty. Joe feels used. Joe feels he is now stuck taking care of his Mother without any inheritance.Some tell Joe to have the family house get put into a trust so Joe could keep the house in the family. Joe feels guilty on attempting to do that because, Mom may need to sell the house for healthcare down the road.It's the family farm that's been in the family for over 200 yrs.
Does Joe go with the thought of greed to save the farm with a trust or give it up and let a nurcing home/Medicaid have it?
Joe hopes that Mom dies at home to avoid nurcing homes.Mother still lives in her home. If Mother goes into a nurcing home bye bye to the family farm. It's not greed it's the family farm at stake. What's Joe to do?

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My story? Both of my parents have been living with me for five yrs. Why? Dad was so sick the doctors wanted to put him in a nursing home. I didn't want that because my FIL died there a year earlier. So Dad and mom moved in with me and my hubby. Dad past away 3 yrs ago, brothers talked mom into going back to her house with the promise of taking better care of her than me because after all, in their opinions, I was just trying to get everything they had anyway. After 3 months of my brothers taking everything she had of value and all of my dad's belongings, she wanted to come back. I brought her back. Now....during that 3 months, she put one of my brothers on her bank accounts, two others are trustees of her estate. One of them collects the rent from her rental trailers and keeps it. The other gets money from her any time that he gives her a sob story. Me? zip.. Now...She sold her home under an owner financed contract and she collects that money and her SS check. She pays us nothing to live with us and contributes nothing to our living expenses. If I ask her for anything or try to discuss this with her...she tells me that she would never have moved in with me if she knew that I allowed her to just to get something out of it, that I am supposed to be doing it all, (everything) just out of love. Love doesn't pay my bills. I would like to hear some other opinions on this. We need a handicap ramp that she could afford to have done but she expects us to do it. She won't spend any of her money on this type of thing because she thinks it is part of our taking care of her and we should pay for it. She has some monthly bills to pay but she is not as broke as she keeps claiming that she is. What do you all all think of this?
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Joe's discussion about "greed" is misplaced. What is greed anyway? At what stage is someone greedy? Are you greedy when you want a bicycle, or when you want a motorcycle, or a car that runs well, or an SUV, or (2) SUV's.........

I think that greed is the wrong word. What I think is objectionable is when someone steals, especially when someone is stealing from a helpless old man or old lady. Anyone's motives can be questioned when they are caring for an elderly person. It comes with the territory. No doubt, most family members will want to question the person handling the finances about the finances. Problems arise when the values of the siblings or other family members are not aligned.

From personal experience, I have seen family members that will not hesitate to take or use funds that belong to a dementia patient. This is not greed. This is just someone being a bloodsucking parasite. Unable to make their way in this world, they prey upon their own relatives. They view dementia as an opportunity for easy money.

In the example provided by dogabone, Joe has to figure out his own values. Does he emotionally care for his mother? The job of being a caregiver is so all-encompassing that even children with great emotional ties have difficulty. I, personally cannot imagine caring for someone whose welfare was not important to me. In my opinion, if someone's main objective is to look for financial gain from someone else's illness, they are a lowlife, a parasite or worse, but they are not greedy.
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She was not married to him when he died.he had remarried. I already checked into that, but thanks for responding.it is all this anger I have.i can't understand why brother did this way except his wife is a controlling greedy person.icsnt help but feel vengeful towards her.she called after getting lawyer and bragged to me about everywhere she was traveling knowing I had responsibility of mom after brothers death.i think she has npd and is still outraged with me for exposing her when she went thru moms silverware and kept what she wanted
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nicenurse, if mom was married to a wartime veteran, she can get VA Aid and Assistance up to $1113 a month. Is that a possibility? VA will cover Assisted Living expenses and possibly daycare too.
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I am 62 yo and took early retirement to look after mom. My brother kept telling me he was leaving money for mom .he had pulmonary fibrosis and died last year leaving everything to his wife. I have been single allmy life , helped mom financially thru the years,buying furniture for her trailer,etc all she had to her name.my sister law always stingy would make remarks like she has plenty of money. My mom had 5 thousand in checking account. I sold trailer for 7 thousand when I moved mom in with me. She was paying 175 a month rent for land and gets social security around one thousand a month.my brother was very ell off andstated around 160 thousand he was leaving for mom but his wife could change it. She has not given us a penny. It costs around 800 a month for daycare for me to get a break. Talk about anger. Why in the h*** didn't he put it in a trust?. Be careful whi you choose as executor of will. My sil even lied to me right after brother passed and stated he left money for me and mom then said she misspoke. I asked about money for assisted living. She Said, let's see, you sold he trailer for 7 thousand, you get her social security, you use.
That and whatever is left I will pay half . I can't afford to pay half and I have stopped all contact with her. She and my brother have 800 thousand in bonds,etched said that's what my brother would do if he was alive PayHalf. Well she should have half of this responsibility then. What do you think of this ? Your opinion please. I am still dealing with anger issues .especially when getting my mother ready every morning doing hair,etc I will get nothing in return except knowing I did right thing, so if you get a house or anything, consider yourselves lucky!
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bellas, I think you should leave everything to your favorite charity and let both those boys go pixx in the wind.
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I found this posting most insightful and decided to comment. I am the caregiver of my husband who I had to place in an ALF 8 months ago. The years I took care of him here at home, took a toll on my health (no surprise there). His son (my step-son) is a multi-multi-millionaire but has nothing to do with his dad, zip, zero time or money. My son actually contacted me less than a month ago to make sure he inherited the house if I die before his step-dad does and wanted a copy of my trust (in my name, husband not included) so he could plan accordingly! Both families live 20 minutes from me but have not and do not help me, even now that I am living alone on 3 acres and my health is still damaged. So all that to say that, I am still of sound mind (so far) and I do not need a caretaker (a handyman, yes) but I don't have to wait until I need an ALF to see the greed and selfishness of my family potential caregivers. It is incredibly painful but worse than that is the thought that any of them would be my caregiver down the road!
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By the way, I also agree with Junkkit - There are many good people who are family members who are caregivers and POA's who are not about the money. We do it because we love our parents. Our parents loved and sacrificed for us and now we do it for them. It is not easy but in our case, we would not even consider any other way - we are one family.
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Joe needs to stop thinking about the money and start thinking with his heart. If he spent the rest of his (previous) life learning how to earn a living then that capability will still be with him after his mom is gone - Is it as easy as it could have been? No. But life is about working hard, loving hard, and putting family first - it is not able living on easy street. Mike squandered her money, did not work hard, perhaps did love as best as he could and perhaps not - we do not have that data. Either way, Joe has to answer for how he chose to live his life on his own. He needs to live in line with his values, true to his heart.
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I disagree with dogbone. There are many good people that are family members who are caregivers and POA's who are not about the money. They do it because they care, respect, and love their parents. Just don't be so critical of everyone, not everyone is like that.
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Oh, so to answer the question.. I would do what I could to protect the family farm. No one should expect an inheritance, but if you can preserve what has been in the family for 200 years? Do it. If you believe Mom will be able to stay at home for 5 years, consult an elder attorney and go the route of the trust. Just because the property is in the trust doesn't mean you can't use it for Moms expenses if she does go into a nursing home. Some of it could be sold, you could borrow money on it.. whatever. Just because it isn't considered as one of her assets doesn't mean it can't be used for her care.
In fact, even 5 years down the road, if Mom does have to go into a nursing home, Joe could pay what would be a fair "rent" on the property to Mom, so she could afford extras in the nursing home. Maybe bump up to a private room or hire someone to take her on extra outings and such.
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Two years ago, some time after my mom was diagnosed with dementia, she and I decided the best thing to do would be to put her assets in a trust with me as the trustee. We followed the lawyers advice. She "gave" me everything and I, in turn, established the family trust with her money. At the time, I discussed what we were doing with my sister. She wanted nothing to do with it. When the trust document was finished, I offered Sister a copy. She wanted none of it, saying she was "done with this whole f-ing family". Fast forward three months and Sis has a change of heart, convinces my mother to move in with her and to sue me for more money than I've seen in a lifetime because I have "stolen" all her money.
Well, when all the paperwork was filed for the lawsuit and Dear Sis got POA for my mother (after about 3 months), she immediately put her in Assisted Living.
Hubby and I got Mother out of assisted living and she has lived with us ever since. Dropped the lawsuit as soon as she could get her attorney to understand that she worked for HER.. and not my sister.
Argh.
Now my sister is telling everyone who will listen that I stole her inheritance and I stole all of my mothers money. Absolutely not true. My mom has a decent life now. Her money pays for someone to stay with her when I'm at work. She goes to thrift stores and out to eat and generally does what she wants... with her money.
The last time I saw my sister she was giving me the finger with both hands, screaming "F-you!" at the top of her lungs, accusing me of being a thief, yelling how she was going to "ruin and destroy" me.. telling me to "go to hell" and "I want you to die right now and go to hell" Seriously disturbed, manic stuff. All the time my mom is there, scared, thinking of how Sis does keep a loaded gun in her car.
Holy crap. All I did was follow the lawyers advice and try to do the best I could for my mom.
And for this, I get screamed at.
I did, once Dear Sister quieted down, tell her that she had better cool it on telling everyone who would listen that I had taken all Moms money and cheated her out of her inheritance, cause it was in my power to do just that. If she wanted to ruin my reputation, It was in my power to make sure I was well compensated for it.
Shut her up right quick.
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My mother and I have never been close. In fact I spent a lifetime avoiding her if at all possible and only cared for her for four hellish years out of duty until she went into a NH. I'm an only child and have full POA, both medical and financial. When I sold my house in the city and moved to care for her we pooled our resources. When she went into the NH her big house was sold and I bought a wee dilapidated cottage out in the country.

I could have bought a bigger, nicer house but it's essential funds be preserved for my mother's care and I'm slowly renovating as funds and time allow. I've always lived simply, done for myself by myself and forever ago learned to shop in thrift stores for clothes, furniture and furnishings and it became a way of life. Mind you I don't bat an eye at what it costs to feed and care for my dogs & cats - they live like kings & queens :)

The taxes on this house (with 2 acres) are 1/4 of what they would be in town plus I have a well and septic tank so no water or sewer charges and my old truck runs perfectly tyvm. I'm getting a wood stove installed before next winter to cut down my hydro bills and, for health reasons, starting to grow some of my own food - "homesteading" if you like. I'm no angel, just very practical.
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My brother and I don't speak. He pushed me last year and I received a concussion he was staying here at time (mooching) and didn't even help her then (or apologize). I filed a Temporary Restraining Order and the Sheriff removed him from the house. We signed an Agreement with the Court that he doesn't follow. He called my Mom the other day just ripping me down one side and then the other (I heard her side of the call). Now my Aunt sends me a bible-thumping email, basically telling me to get a job. STFU! I suffer from chronic migraines. Sometimes 10 days straight. She said she's never heard of anyone having migraines that keep them from working (she isn't the brightest bulb either). She doesn't even understand Alzheimer's (so I called them to send her a packet). I'm sick of the judgment. I sent her the nastiest email I have ever sent in my life. She and my Mom stopped speaking for over 10 years because she sticks her nose in where it doesn't belong. Well know I know how my Mom felt. My Aunt wants to come out and see my Mom in June. I'm trying to get Disability, and then put Mom in Al. But I can't tell my OWN family because they are either ignorant or greedy (my brother). This kind of crap went on when my Grandmother got older (had Dementia also). It split all 3 sisters relationship apart. Now, here we go again. Thank you for your kind words. My Uncle (Mom's brother) and my Aunt's son "get it," but she certainly doesn't. I'm going to call my Uncle and see what he thinks. I've lost trust in most of my family and my Mom's friends. When I get disability, I'm outta here!
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My point when creating this topic was to show how greed over turns love in family relationships.I lost both of my Parents at a young age.I was 18 yrs old when my Dad died.My Dad was 59 and my Mom was 64 when she died.I wish I had the chance to see them in their elderly yrs and for them to watch my children grow.
If my Parents would have lived to see their elderly yrs.Would I agree to be their caregiver?Sometimes I wonder?You may get along with your Parents now but,when becoming their caregiver changes relationships to the worse I think.Many things come into play becoming a caregiver for a loveone.Becoming a caregiver you learn more about your Parents.Some things you learn you may wish you never learned.Some may find your relationship was better before becoming a caregiver or wish you never agreed to be a caregiver in the first place.
Becoming your Parents caregiver results in learning their darkside of hatefulness.In time your'll be accused of things and finger pointing in your direction for no reason other then being their punching bag.The unfairness is caregivers has no punching bag to punch.The #1 reason why siblings agree to be caregivers /POAs for their Parents is out of greed to recieve a inheritance.Thinking if they take care of their Parents they will get a inheritance.
I see people on this forum with Will questions when their parents are still alive.Just shows what greed will do to most if not all people.$$$$$ signs they see.
Your Parents worked all their lives and knew how to save.They didn't work & save for your retirement.In the end most elderly people rather burn the money then see anyone have it truth be told.Most elderly people use their Wills to obtain fee help form their children because,most elderly people are too cheap to pay or to give a dime.If your a caregiver for your Parent.Truth be told,most likely your just being used.Because,if they wanted you to have any money?They would give it to you while their still alive to enjoy your look on your face.
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LEP627- vent all you want - I go thru the same issues with my Mother. This is how I finally handled it after 3 years. When a family member calls to offer their 2 cents on how I should be caring for my Mom I tell them to take over the job. This pretty much shuts them up. If you are not in the trenches you do not get a vote - learned that from this website. My Mom used to call my sibs to tell them stupid stuff about me. Like she was "telling on me" to my brother and sister. This had to be nipped in the bud right away. So I let them take her for a couple of days so they can see firsthand all of the confabulation and downright lies that she tells them. That also shut up my sister and I no longer get the calls about what my Mom has said about me. I got so sick of them believing the nonsense that my Mother would spurt out that I started telling them the stuff she says about them. She told me my sister was trying to "spend all of her money." Totally wrong as we pay for most of my Mothers needs. So I sent her an e-mail stating that she needs to stop spending Moms money (because that is what my Mother said about her.) My sister responded with "how could she say that?" So I told her she now knows how I feel when she questions me. Our relationship is not very warm and fuzzy now but at least I am growing more of a backbone so I don't feel so resentful all the time. My thoughts are with you, hang in there. Hugs....
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I'm sorry. It looks like I was venting & didn't answer the question properly. Joe needs to see an Elder Law attorney before doing anything. When a person has Dementia, they can't make decisions themselves and it could look like Elder Abuse. Call your local Bar Association. For a $50, you get an hour consultation . Then he can decide what he needs to do & what he can't do legally.
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If Mom has Dementia, Joe can't sell the house. Isn't it possible Mike was spending her money without her knowledge? If she has Dementia, it may be more than likely. She is not lying, she is sick. You wouldn't believe the crap my Mom says about me. And she truly believes it. My brother has called Adult Protective Services several times, and now my Aunt (who my Mom didn't speak to for 10 years), is sticking her nose in. She lives 3,000 miles away. She sent me a nasty email the other day because she believes the crap my Mom tells her. I lost it and told her to take her bible-thumping B.S. Somewhere else. I'm so angry. BTW I do have caregivers 3x/week, but other than that, it is 100% on my shoulders.
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Here's what I tell family members who plan to loan money to other family members:
Replace the word "loan" with the word "give." If you loan a family member money and they don't pay it back, it's a family problem. If you give it to them, there's no problem, at all. If you don't want to give it to them, then keep your money in your bank account and don't talk about it, again.

As for caring for someone in order to get something in the end, that's just a deal with the devil. Give them your time because you want to because you can never guarantee you'll get the house, money, etc... If you do it because you want to, you won't end up being used.
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Get an lawyer specializing in elder care. They can help, you may have to pay a penalty fee but be able to keep assets.
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My narcissistic, manipulative, mean mother was really stingy. She refused to spend a penny on her house for the 12 years she lived there, not even having the carpets cleaned when they were filthy and dog peed. She knew how shabby it was and wouldn't let anyone in. However, when she got a caregiver (slave), housekeeper, cook, cleaner, punching bag and taxi service (me) for four years for free she was absolutely delighted. Did I feel used? H*ll yes! She's in a NH now and I'm rebuilding my life. Good riddance.
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Mom should have put the house in a trust long ago. If he thinks she will stay out of NH for five years, get it done. She could also sell it to him and hold the mortgage for no interest; a lawyer can get this done, with a payment schedule that fits Joe's budget and helps pay for the NH.
Look at what she gets in SS per month. If her husband was a wartime Vet, she can get another $1113 in VA Aid. Often this covers Assisted Living or in home care. EXample: $1600 in SS and $1113 from VA= $2713/month. If she draws another $300/mo off the $20K savings, it would last five years.
If Joe buys the farm at a fair market price of $200,000 over thirty years, he would pay her $556/month. She would have $3659/month for care for the first five years. And Medicaid only looks back five years. See the Attorney.
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