Stumped by a narcissist. Thank God she's not mine!

Hi, CM! Silly of me - but what brand of undies does Queen Elizabeth II wear? I found reference online for Royal Warrant Holder, Rigby & Peller, granted by HM the Queen, Corsetiere & Lingerie Specialists, Corsetiere & Intimates, date of warrant 1960, established in 1939. Still in business? Be sure to present them on hand-painted periwinkle Royal Daulton....

I've just been looking at Sloggi's ranges... but you know what? I refuse to get sucked in. That woman would have every female member of the extended family worldwide running round to track down her rarefied undies if she had her way. She's probably aiming to get SIL making trips to Paris to have them hand-made for her.

She once sneered at my new cosy sheepskin slippers because she will only ever wear gold leather mules and considered mine 'frumpy.' Yes I do bear a grudge. Nobody disses my slippers if they want to be my friend...

Doesn't everyone wear peephole bras and crotchless panties?

Or was that peephole shoes and crutches when you fall over?

I have trodden carefully and just provided sympathetic murmuring, after the obvious first question fell flat. The bras they bought after the fitting were pronounced too tight, apparently, which makes me think on reflection that MIL is not used to bras fitting properly. But that also means that if they're loose enough, now that she's put on a bit of weight, they won't provide comfortable support. She's probably going to need a radically new style to be convinced.

The temptation is to think 'oh for God's sake', order two styles in four sizes, take them over there and get this sorted. But for one thing that's not for me to do, and anyway I can't until September; and for another I half suspect that MIL is quite enjoying herself.

The only other thing I can think of is to send some catalogues, then they can have weeks of fun with mail order. But at least the companion will be able to handle that and it won't all fall on SIL.

I learned my lesson about fitting early on, when my mother took me to a terribly unfashionable musty old shop, I told the (to my eyes) withered crone assistant my size, and she looked at me scornfully and said "no you're not" before bringing three beautiful bras in exactly the right size to the changing room. I was so impressed that she could tell at a glance that I have had proper respect for these ladies' lore ever since. Boy, do they know their stuff.

I would advise her to present her mother with whatever was recommended by the lingerie fitter, commiserate that it is a shame they don't make things like they used to and promise to keep her eyes open for something more suitable while she is out and about. At least the old dear will have something to wear (for now lol).

CTTN, yes indeed, and isn't that the irony. I think SIL is painfully aware of it. She is terribly, terribly enmeshed and it is very hard to watch.

MIL toyed with dementia symptoms until she realised it might lead to loss of control (she's not demented. She's always been a neurotic tantrum-thrower and dog-with-a-bone obsessive). Next she reported heart flutters (there weren't any). She "can't" be left alone (there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. Nothing). She insists that SIL accompanies her to all medical appointments but refuses to allow her to express an opinion or ask questions. She flatly refuses to consider anti-anxiety medication.

In short, MIL is a textbook Narcissist of the Queen variety, and SIL is her unsatisfactory lady-in-waiting. I want to tell SIL to delegate the bra buying business, but I'm not doing it and I can't think of another "volunteer."

JessieBelle, don't you like any of the mainstream makes? Good old Playtex! - who hasn't had a Doreen at some point? :) Plus we have Marks & Spencer, supplier of reliable knickers to the entire UK population pretty much, at some stage in their lives; but they too have been rejected. I'm wondering if going for a label with some kind of specialism to it - pure cotton, Rich & Famous, endorsed by show jumpers, anything - might do the trick.

My mother was a desperate woman trying to placate a horrible stroppy brat adolescent! The fitting was a happy accident.

I don't know how MIL has been in the habit of putting on her bras. I'd quite like to see the expression on her face if I asked her... or would I. Sometimes she walks around as gingerly as if every joint was agonising and she can't imagine why no one is offering to carry her. Next minute she's skittering across the room to grab the best chair quick.

I will put to SIL the top five options:

1. Rigby & Peller, by appointment, arranged on Royal Doulton platters. Or should that be Crown Derby? Not to worry - we can line them with silver tissue paper and she'll never know.
2. Sports bras, pull on or fastening options, seam-free cotton and panelled options.
3. Her old ones dug out of the garbage if it hasn't already been collected, the daft old trout.
4. Longer line ones so that the fit is snug but doesn't dig in. Not sure who still makes them - is Berlei still going does anyone know?
5. Playtex Cross Your Heart. For old times' sake.

I would definitely order a whole host on line and then send back the ones that don't suit - she can at least try them on at home. I find the easiest are front loaders something like 18 Hour Front-Close Wirefree Bra with Flex Back - amazon sell them for sure and they are larger fit and designed for comfort

I'm just imaging what SIL's training analysis must have been like. Oy.

I once asked SIL what she could tell me about Borderline Personality Disorder. She said: "I know it's got a very poor prognosis - why? Who do you know who's got a borderline personality disorder?"

I think sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. Especially when one of them's fallen on top of you.