When I stand up for myself my mom gets angry and says she is hurt. What do I do?

Setting your boundaries is smart. You have to limit your visits, limit your running around and doing endless errands. Spend quality time with your family, and maybe this will help when your mom is being difficult. Hope this helps, Please take care of you, remember quality time vs. quantity.

Thank God for your husband. I know how tough my mother makes my life, and she lives in assisted living. If she lived with me, I'd run away from home.

I hate to say this but some old people get very demanding, selfish, abusive and downright mean. Then it is time for YOU to decide if you are willing to take it. I would first try every peaceable, kind, sympathetic means to make this stop. If it does not stop or gets worse, I would threaten to remove them and put them somewhere. If that doesn't work, well, you can guess what you have to do to stop them - put them someplace where they will not do this to you. I have lived too hard a life to allow anyone, regardless of their reasons - mental, physical, personality, etc. - to do this to me anymore. I would end it at once.

It sounds like she is depressed and in cognitive decline. It's a positive sign actually that she still realizes her purchases were not necessary and wants them returned vs. hoarding or not realizing they were unnecessary. Slow in processing, poorer decisions, and trouble initiating action (e.g. as little as leaving the house alone, let alone something as big as moving) are hallmarks of age-related decline. Her defense/response to get you to do it probably is ingrained. But if you can view it as a deficit/fear vs. intentionally making your life difficult, it may help you and her (even if you suspect it may be a little of both, it's at least partly not her fault). But, know that she probably can't stop the shopping on her own (not won't, but can't), and if she's made to feel badly/guilty, she may start to hide it and also waste her resources. Can someone from the community visit or can you hire an aide for occasional visits? Anything to address depression, loneliness and fear of being alone? Very few people have any idea how scary it's going to be while they are still capable of making a move. They don't know they're going to be mentally incapable of moving later. I encourage everyone to google "brain loss from aging MRI" to better empathize with the losses in cognitive, memory, personality, and pragmatics. It's tough to see someone, especially a parent, lose "common sense," but it's biological. You sound caring and supportive. You need support and breaks too. But it does really sound like she is depressed and declining beyond her control. It's hard to get away or through the day to day responsibilities, but if you can, try to work in some high quality outings or visits and take some pictures of them to leave with her.

Your mother may just be lonely, have you thought about hiring a companion to visit with her a couple times a week. They can take her shopping, for walks, play games, puzzles. And the fee isn't as high as a caregiver. I had 1 for my Mom until she needed to go to AL and her mood really changed. I didn't have to visit as often, which helped a lot as I am also caregiver for my husband 24/7. You're lucky she returns things 😊 When I moved my Mom I found 16 boxes of ziplock sandwich bags and other multiples of items. Haha

My mother started the orders too so I laid down the rule that she needed to say 'please' and 'thank you' regularly - I used the old 'I can't hear you' until she said please then if I was getting something for her ask I handed it to her I would prompt her for the thank you - if nothing else she now knows you are in SOME control

Mom once was very nasty when I got there & started throwing her weight around then said 'if you can't do that then leave' so I did but I also said as I was leaving 'Oh good now I have time to so my groceries before dark' or some such thing - she thought she would have me jumping through hoops to please her but it backfired - she only pulled that a few times before she realized she was cutting off her nose to spite her face

You say your mom says her feeling are hurt - however I bet you never tell her when yours are - so tell her what she says is unacceptable & maybe skip a weekly visit when she is 'bad' -

I bet you go about same time each weekend so start switching it up so 1 week is Sat a.m. & next is Sun p.m. etc. so that she becomes aware that you have a life & sometimes that means rescheduling the time with her - if she complains just say it was reschedule or cancel -

My mom is easier when my husband is with me so can your hubby come occationally? - rather than taking her shopping take her out for dinner/lunch as your time together

I always bring something small with me like a Tim Horton's coffee & a cookie so now she greets me with a big smile because like Pavlov's dog she associates me with pleasure - you train your kids to act reasonably so to you must do some training for your needful elders -

My mom is well past making problems now but she still recognizes me & smiles - I still bring something every time but that changes from week to week - she gets as much pleasure from a helium balloon as a pot of tulips as a cookie as it is not WHAT you bring but rather THAT you bring something which is thoughtful = CARING = LOVE

You know your mother the best but try some suggestions we all have found while 'in the trenches' - also if she moves closer think about how close in case she wants to start visiting your home

Manipulative mothers....(sigh) where would this board be without them?
I too have one, and I also had a very unhappy childhood, made much more difficult by a mother who threatened to kill herself at every turn. I grew up terrified and in constant fear that she would, in fact, do that and I'd be held to blame and would go to jail.
It's only taken 60 years for me to stand up to her. I kind of blew up 2 weeks ago when she pulled this stunt again. All I said was "Do as you please, mom, we'll all be fine." This set off a pout-fest and one of those "you kids were so hard to raise! My Dr always said you'd be the death of me!" (she's 87, and nobody has done her in yet.)
When Mother gets this way, I have the power to WALK AWAY. And I do. And I FINALLY have the power to do so without any guilt, whatsoever.
I will now set boundaries and if she crosses them..I warn her. She usually respects them. If she doesn't, I will say "Ok, then I am in timeout and I will see you in 2 weeks". Whether or not she cares is her problem. I doubt she even notices.
In your case--can you move your mom closer to you (NOT in with you) to cut back on the long drive..or are you OK with it chewing up an entire day? This would pretty much end a relationship with my mom, she's within 20 minutes of all her kids.
I can say without question, unless she has a serious cognitive decline, this behavior is going to go on as long as YOU let it. You're the one in charge here and now. Set some boundaries and stick with them. Sounds like she's not going to be happy no matter what you do, so set things to please yourself! And good luck with it!! :)

skyfall, my mother is (possibly) accelerating her cognitive decline by her isolation. I guess even if she went to an AL that she would still be accelerating her decline by not using hearing aids. I hadn't thought of that...

I'm writing to you because I can totally relate. And because of the comment you made that you had "a happy childhood." And yet your mother's behavior is the same as it was back then. It doesn't sound like Sundowning to me. And even if it is, that's even more reason to take care of yourself!

For me,
When my inner walls came down - when I started really looking into myself and having intense, therapeutic feedback - I realized that, no, I did not really have a happy childhood. There were happy times, but tons of manipulation, super-high stress, control, fear, and drama - oh yes, abuse. Emotional in particular, plus neglect. Recently, I realized that one "belief" I told myself as a child, is that "I don't matter." Another: Being quiet about my feelings, and being "good," protects me and also helps Mom to feel "better." Also to always be grateful, because our lives are so much better than hers as a poor child of the Depression era, with an alcoholic father, etc., etc.

My mother just went through a phase that I feel, showed me the future. And it's so frightening, so very mean. But you know what? I can choose peace. I can choose to not engage or participate. Keep things light and leave before things get dark. Pray for more light for myself.

When we realize the pain we've been carrying inside, we become stronger, more motivated to actually implement boundaries. Until then, we say we've created boundaries but... they don't always work, and in fact, just make Mom craftier.

The solution for me is spirituality, in whatever forms feel "right" to me. The messages that feel most "right" are the ones that hit me in the gut with the truth. Then I can cry - or laugh! - and feel alright for a while. On and on it goes, and I get stronger and stronger. I go out for a ride in nature on my power chair, listening to music... and I feel good. I feel whole, and loved.

My inner serenity comes first, and so must yours. I need to be Real so I can heal my own "automatic behaviors" and so I can stop the co-dependency I've re-created with my own daughter. Oh, yes... I know how to be just like Mom. That's a hit in the gut! But it also was a major turning point for healing.

Bless you and your husband. I've never had a normal love relationship, I have MS and finally moved from my parents' home into IL, which saved my life! I now know how to be happy and quiet; and when I'm not, I know it won't last too long. I still wish I could attract someone to love and be loved by, someone who isn't out to abuse me or trigger self-abuse. A lot of healing coming through, and I thank God for that! (Or as Sufi, Yoga, etc. say: Wahe Guru!)

Nurture yourself and your marriage. Maybe you can even lessen some things you perceive as "normal stress." Inside, I mean.

Mother Nature is the best. Get out there with your man. Breathe in the Love that is always real, always perfect.

Blessed be.

My mother has spent her life buying things & then returning them. When Dad was alive, he'd drive her all over the place to return the items she didn't want. I think she gets a thrill buying them, then when the initial thrill of the purchase wears off, she's left with a bunch of stuff she doesn't want/need. These days, she lives in an assisted living facility and the bus driver will occasionally bring her back to the mall to return something. Then she made a habit out of doing it, so the bus driver said No More. As for me, I work full time and will NOT spend my weekends returning unnecessary purchases to stores, period. Yes, I'm "selfish and ungrateful" and that's just fine! Don't buy into the nonsense......it takes two to play this game.

You are a great daughter and quite frankly your mother doesn't have boundaries and is demonstrating manipulative and selfish behavior. I think the less you communicate the better. It's hard not to at first because you will feel like you "should" be calling her. Don't do it ....it gets easier. Unless you all just have a ball talking every day...why do you need to call her daily? I don't even call people daily who don't manipulate me. There is no law that says since you are her daughter you need to do this. Let her live with her independence and stop seeing you as someone who is a daily touchstone and scape goat. The more you let her be independent of you the better for you both. Some persons ALWAYS think that people owe them something. You say she doesn't have dementia. Did a doctor do the Mini Mental or some other test for cognitive decline? Also, if she still has her credit cards and is ordering things with the expectation you will return them...I would put the kibosh on that. You are under no obligation to do that for her. She can arrange for UPS to do a pick up as will USPS. It sounds like you are not POA and that she does her own finances. If you are concerned about her having some dementia then perhaps she needs to have her credit card removed before she is a victim of a scam. Sorry to sound so tough but sometimes tough love is needed.

Goto, God bless you for trying. I'm an old woman, too; and it would be fun to have someone like you at my beck and call! However, you are not obligated to be her plaything. Feeling guilty? How about feeling used instead?
If you truly think you are guilty of doing wrong, then try changing what you're doing:
You set your limits where you and your husband want them--and be more generous toward him, because I expect (from my own experience) that he is willing to agree to let you do more for Mom than he really thinks you should.
Tell Mom you're sorry if she thought she was going to move in with you and have you unselfishly cater to her every whim, but she must have slipped up somewhere in her child-rearing technique because that ain't gonna happen. Now, she needs to make other plans while she is still competent to do so, and you will help her examine her options at your convenience.
Since she has financial means to live in a community, suggest that she would be happier there than whining and wishing you'd do more than you are going to do for her. Basically, tell her to grow up and get on with her life; and you can spend 3 hours a week (or whatever limit YOU set) helping her find a new good place to live before it's too late for her to have any choice in it.
From my observation, people who move into a senior community nearly always say they should have done it sooner; so IMO, this would be a wonderful thing for you to do for her. 
At any rate, you're not abusing her; your primary obligations are to your own household, so no guilt for setting your limits. 

I really like the ideas mentioned above. I had to do something very similar with my elderly friend George who is now gone. He became very demanding of not just me, but he started ordering others around also. I got smart and just delayed or out right refused to do what he was ordering me to do. I can see where he got his bad habits, he said he was in the army where they were ordered around. He failed to completely adapt to civilian life, and I think he must've got some very rude awakenings along the way. I recall a time my hands were full and he wanted me to do something and I couldn't at the time. We were the only two at his place and I couldn't get to what ever he was wanting at the time so he threw an object at the wall. Temper tantrum's cost me to take my own sweet time doing whatever it is he wanted. He could've helped himself despite being in that power chair, he wasn't as confined to it as he was letting on. He was encouraged by medical professionals to start walking a little more than he was. He didn't really need his chair or his scooter as much as he was letting on. Thankfully his scooter and power chair were taken when he was admitted to a nursing home, they made him use a walker. Being legally blind, he still had some vision but he was clearly unable to drive and was definitely a danger to himself and others with his scooter and power chair. I'm surprised he didn't get admitted to a nursing home much sooner, and not having a car at the time was probably a good thing because he probably would've used me for a ride to Wade Park veterans Hospital. I had absolutely no clue what was going on between him and his doctors, and what I didn't know was probably why it was probably a good thing I didn't have a car at the time because I probably would've ended up taking him to Wade Park not knowing the real truth of what was occurring locally. He was a frequent flyer as medical professionals would put it, and he probably would have started on new grounds not knowing his records would follow him wherever he went. Yes, he became very agitated, bullheaded and stubborn. He became a handful and I was actually giving tips to one of the home aides who secretly told me how out of hand he was, which I already knew. She was complaining how demanding he was so I slipped her a tip of just not jumping at his demand if he orders around so I slipped her a tip of just not jumping at his demand if he orders her around. It's one thing to ask nicely, another thing to demand, and I don't take orders from no one, I'll get stubborn and flat out refuse. I don't let no one walk all over me, this happened enough during childhood when my drunk and abusive parents abused me in every way possible. Then during my young adult life, people continually harassed me in different ways and made my life very difficult if not impossible. I developed in such a way that I just won't take no crap from no one, and neither should you

You are in my eyes already bending over backwards to serve mom - you travel 3 hours round trip to visit for how long, then you spend at least an hour a week talking to her on the phone and recovering from her abuse. Then you spend another couple of hours fretting about it. I can certainly see how your husband would not want to share you any more with your mom - you married him, not her!

That's too bad for your mom that she has not figured out how to live without someone at her beck and call. Maybe you should start retraining her now so she has a better rest of her life! Perhaps a call OR a visit a week. You also set a timer on your phone or kitchen clock to limit the time you have with her. When it rings, time's up and you have to go to your next appointment. That appt could be taking out the garbage - its importance does not matter, what matters is that you obey YOUR schedule, not mom's. Distance yourself from her so she can have the joy of being an independent woman!

i have developed a [childish?] 'fear' of talking with mom on the phone.

1st bit of advice: if your mom is in any stage of dementia, beware of 'sundowning' - i read about it in this newsletter just about the time mom was calling multiple times each night with repetitive demands [for banking autonomy, where are my things from our house, accusing people of stealing...]

she is always fine when i take her to drs, dentist, then lunch together...then next day [night!] she continues the irrational phone behavior demands, crying, calling the police...

when i try to change the subject, she won't have it - tho her mind is going, she is surprisingly stubborn in remembering what she wants in these episodes.

it took me a long time to try NOT to explain the illogic of her complaints. this is what causes me the 'fear' - why can't i be more creative with getting her to hang up satisfied - with some calming lie? she with a weak and failing mind is 'stronger' than my logical and reasonable one...so confounding!
soooo - i've learned to not answer the phone after dusk. she's fine the next day.

Maybe if the shoe was on the other foot she would see reason to not tolerate abuse or mistreatment from anyone. Don't worry about her feelings as long as you're just standing up for yourself, she can just get over it. Don't let anyone walk all over you, keep standing up for yourself and don't worry about the feelings of others when you must defend yourself

CTTN55, such similar issues. in many of the above comments really.

i only comment on yours feeling compelled to by the hearing issue, being DENIAL by my mom, 90 also. my belief is that, would she wear a hearing aid, she would be aware of / engage in the myriad activities available at her uniquely lovely IL facility, a huge factor in preventing losing one's mind, almost proven by the way she is losing hers by not doing so.

diagnosed with dementia, but can fool anyone, except family and staff at the facility.

latest habit/decline of past 2 weeks: multiple nightly calls to us sisters - after 'sundown' - demanding bank card and accusing people of stealing things.....as there is no getting thru, no logic...dr appt made for meds to calm her down / anti-depressant...

do all of you reflect on the fact that it is unlikely that our moms did not have to care for their aging parents as we are in this age of life-lengthening meds. they live longer - but is it dignified or happy or productive or thankful...?...

My 88 year old mother lives next door to me which is perfect for now. She is at about the same cognitive level as your Mother. She had a stroke which left her with very little short term memory. She has a hard time having a conversation as the words don't come easily. Unlike your Mother, she is usually very sweet, but won't accept that she is impared in any way so we are constantly butting heads. She says I have taken her freedom away. No, the stroke did that. She does the shopping thing too. Orders on the internet as she doesn't drive anymore, so I am always at the post office returning packages. When does it ever end? We have a few years to go I am afraid & it will only get worse. Wish I had advice for you. Hang on!

Momsgoto, I don't really have any answers for you, either, but your husband has clearly set a boundary (your mother will NOT live with the two of you), so that's good!

My mother thinks I need to be involved in her day-to-day snafus (didn't bring all the info to the tax preparer, is now stressing out about how to start mail order meds, etc.). At a doctor's visit I told her to please be quiet, the doctor was trying to speak and she hissed at me, "Don't tell me what to do!" Any time she has to call a company/dr/whatever on the phone, there is usually a mixup and of course the other person is "stupid!"

I am supposed to agree with her. I usually don't. But I don't say that, because that upsets her greatly. She is not ready to hear that she is becoming incapable of doing many of these things (one reason is her hearing loss, which she refuses to get hearing aids for), so she continues to stumble through things and get herself quite irritated.

She is 90 years old. I see cognitive slippage. Doctors don't care. They see that I go to medical appointments with her, and so aren't concerned. (They probably assume she lives with me, which she doesn't and never will.)

Seriously seek out a class on mindfulness/meditation. You have already done some therapy which is great. Now you need to retrain your brain so that you stay present as you deal with her. It will make a big difference. Just try it.

Selfish and ungrateful.

Selfish and ungrateful?

Selfish and ungrateful! I love it!!!

Momsgoto, there is something about glorious, blazing, triumphant illogicality that just tickles me for some reason.

"I went to the shops and bought these items, having learned nothing from many previous similar experiences. My daughter says she is fed up with returning items I have bought and don't want, and is not going to play this game any more. How selfish and ungrateful of her!"

I can only recommend that you carry on being as selfish and ungrateful as your sanity, your sense of reality and your marriage require; and allow your mother to enjoy her grievances.

I don't have an answer for you but wanted to say I empathize with you. My mom was the opposite - passive to the point she allowed everyone to take advantage of her. Perhaps a sit down talk with your mom letting her know she needs to ease off or lose you would be beneficial?

My mother and I have had a good relationship most of my life. I had a good childhood. As long as everything went her way, all was fine with the world. When my father died the story changed. She no longer had someone to do her bidding night and day. I do my best. I know that on an intellectual level but I feel like I should always do more. I feel like I am in a catch-22. I want to do nice things for her and I am kind by nature. But when I do that she is mean and uses my good nature as a sign weakness. She is definitely counting on me caving. She wants to live in my house and will not consider any other alternatives. Even if I did cave, my husband is adamant that she cannot live with us. He has watched her manipulation for years. He and I agree on one thing. If my mother moves in, our marriage may not survive. I live every day in a vice.
I'm suspicious that there is some cognitive decline but every doctor says she is fine. She keeps her house clean and is pretty sharp with her finances. So it's the interpersonal deficits that are obvious but only to those who know her. In my experience, doctors really don't care that much about these issues. Unless your loved one is licking the walls or disoriented as to time and place they don't address it.

Momsgoto, it sounds like your mother is turning the FOG onto you -- fear, obligation, and guilt. A lot of parents do that to their children and it is very unfair. Since you spent a lot of years in therapy, you probably already know these things. It feels bad when they get old and keep pushing on the boundaries we build. Mine does that all the time, hoping they will cave in.

The part about returning things had me nodding my head. Mine will buy something, then decide she doesn't like it or thinks it cost too much. She wants me to return it. I won't do that anymore, since it seemed to be turning into a game with her. When I stopped returning, my mother didn't try it anymore. I don't understand why she was doing this, but it was very irritating. It was more like she couldn't find anything that pleased her, not even if she bought it herself.

I know you are just venting, momsgoto. Vent away. Many of us know what you're saying.

It sounds like this conflict between you two has been longstanding. Is that right? It also sounds like you do an awful lot for her. Some people are just difficult to please. Even if you were there with her 24/7, it might not be enough. If you read a lot of the posts on this site, you'll see where adult children provide around the clock care for their parents and they are still not happy, complain and insult them. So, you can only do, what you can. After that, I'd have peace with it. Why would you feel guilty, when you do your best. I never feel guilty when I do my best, I am gentle with myself, since, few others are. lol

One other thing that I would suggest is to consider if she is having any cognitive decline. My LO became unusually difficult and demanding and I thought she was very rude and unreasonable. I didn't know then that it was early dementia. Later, it was clear. The reason she called and wanted me there so much, is that her brain was changing and it scared her. She needed me there for comfort, but, was scared to tell me why. I'd check out her house and make sure things are okay and that she's functionally normally, just to make sure. All those purchases would peek my curiosity.