Sister-in-law's want my father-in-law to go back home on hospice to die but he's totally unmanageable!

For some reason lost connection. Anyway, FIL has one more week in AL. Absent daughter is adamant he gets his 'dying wish' to go home to die. She does not live here. Thanks honey from the people that have been here forever! Childless and oldpeopleness gives you a lot of freedom. You can be so f'ing CARING without wiping people's butts and pulling a catheter out of their penis when it's bleeding. So sick of the family.

His daughter's insistence that your FIL get his dying wish says to me that she wants to make sure that comes true for him. I am glad that she personally wants to come home to care for him. That is what I would tell her -- that he is welcome to come home as long as she'll come home and do the things that need to be done. I wouldn't be surprised if she changed her mind if she knew that was the only condition.

I would tell the SIL that he is coming home to her house or not at all.

It sure gets tiring dealing with all those family members who are so free with advice and demands....all the while being unwilling to actually do anything with their own hands.

My brother was like that for a few years - telling me just how our parents and later just mom, after dad passed - should be cared for - calling the plays from his vacation home, based on what he saw on his - at best - twice a month visits that lasted an hour or two. It's enough to wind you up on an episode of Snapped! Last year, after brother retired and actually began visiting twice a week and actually helped out with a problem or two his attitude certainly changed. Tell your SIL to put up or shut up.

Most people when asked will say they want to die at home.

But here's an odd thing. Many people who are actually dying undergo an abrupt change of mind, and want to get themselves to hospital in a hurry, or at least to a facility where every possible medical intervention is available. I'd call it panic except that it seems to me to be an entirely rational response to the ultimate crisis.

I got into a fight about this subject on my old school's Facebook forum. A well-known, long-serving member of staff had died, and her non-participating great nephew had posted criticisms of her health care team (professional - she had no close family) to do with her being taken to hospital against her will, what a sad end, how terrible that they didn't protect her wishes etc etc blah blah blah. I pointed out that she had been found acutely ill and in terrible pain, and her consent to being admitted had been given. He replied that I obviously didn't know his great aunt. Actually I knew her better than I'd wish on anyone and thought her a tyrannical and sadistic cow; but given that I therefore wasn't very objective I refrained from commenting further.

But Windy, in your FIL's case it is different because he himself wants to go home. Take that as the starting point, then "SIL meet FIL, FIL meet SIL, she agrees that you should go home and she will therefore be assuming full responsibility for your discharge arrangements, in-home care and palliative treatment. Best of luck!"

He wants to go home. His daughters want him to go home. Leave them to it. Depending on their skills and availability and with hospice's help, maybe they could make it work. Stranger things have happened. I hope before they make any definite plans they sit down with his care team and learn exactly what will be involved, and also discuss with hospice what they'll be able to do.

I see from your profile that you are caring for your mother in AL. What's the previous situation been with fil? How long has he been in AL? Did you do care for him before he went to AL?

What is your husband's stance on all of this? He would be the one to make fil and your sil's "die at home" dreams to come true, right? Is he planning to move in with his father? What is his plan? How does it involve you? If he acquieses to his father and sister's "die at home" wishes, then it's on him to make it become a reality. NOT YOU. Of course, I know this is easier said than done (I have my own issues with boundaries with my mother).

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful advice. I will be sure to share it with my husband. He does NOT want his dad to go home. He witnessed what my father went through when dying of brain cancer. It took a terrible toll on my brother and I as my mom was insistent that he stay at home. After a horrible seizure, my dad was placed in a hospice facility with around the clock care and it was a blessing. We were able to just be present and love him. The stress and trauma of hands on 24/7 care was gone.

My FIL has been in AL for three weeks. It was presented to him as respite care after a nasty fall at home where he laid on the floor for four hours. One of my sis-in-laws just happened to drop by and found him. 911 had to be called to get him off the floor as he is nearly 300 lbs. He is too much for one person to handle.

Prior to that, he spent 12 hours stuck in his recliner as he could not get up due to weakness. Once again, one of the kids discovered him. He was a soiled mess. The crazy thing is that he had his cell phone right next to him and a life alert type pendant on him that he didn't think to use. He is not rational though in many ways he seems very cognizant.

My husband has five sisters. All but the one I mentioned above are local. One sister visits FIL daily and she is on the same page as my husband. Seeing his care needs on an everyday basis has made her realize he needs full-time care by a team of people. The others wish to fulfill dad's wish to die at home and operate on emotion, not reality.

CTTN55, Yes, I am still looking after my mother in AL. She's been residing in AL for 5 1/2 years. My husband and I take her out to lunch weekly and to all appointments. He's a dear to do that as he works full-time at a stressful job. Thank goodness for a lot of vacation hours at his disposal, though it's not always easy to take time off work. We are no spring chickens and can't imagine being pulled into dad's daily care on top of everything else. FIL's care needs are just too great.

Shortly after my mother was moved to the NH my brother was visiting and mom asked him to help her to the bathroom. Being the dutiful, perfect, martyred son that he believes himself to be, he decided to do it with no help from the staff. That single occurance was enough to get my know-it-all brother to change his mind regarding my mothers level of care needs.

windy, your FIL's weight makes it nearly impossible for someone to care for him at home. It would be difficult if he was half his weight. I would not even attempt to care for my mother at home if she weighed 300. Moving him would require a lift and at least two strong people to make sure it was done safely.

I think your SIL's ought to leave well enough alone and just enjoy visiting him in his AL place. Given his weight and his history, bringing him home would be a mistake, IMO. He needs a team of trained professionals to help him.

Is there a funeral home within a stone's throw of the AL facility?

Rainmom and JessieBelle,

That is exactly the point that we are trying to make with SILs and FIL. SILs think hiring a group similar to Visiting Angels 24/7 is the solution. I pity the poor caregiver that is assigned to watch over him. It WOULD be impossible.

On top of all that, FIL is insistent that he can go home without any caregiver assistance. He's not being rational at all.! That's what is driving us crazy. The SILs are allowing dad to run the show when he is not operating from a realistic point of view. They are all still trying to please daddy and one up themselves about who cares the most. It's extremely frustrating and upsetting for my normally easy going and kind husband.

Ah yes, who's the most devoted and therefore the most deserving?!! I guess that in a way I was lucky - my brother is too self centered to have kept his devotion up for long. After about two months he was back to vacations out of state and extended stays at his "other" house - and out of my hair. At least, most of the time.

Windy, so sorry for your situation, and the downturn of your FIL's health. It's simple not doable! At this point, all you can do is step back and let your SIL's hash out the details, but do make it clear to them, that this will be ALL ON THEM, and that you have enough on your own plate, caring for your own Mom. However they set it up, that you will dutifully visit him, and make his ending days as happy as You can! I truly believe that they will ultimately see that this is going to be too much for his wife, and the rest of them, even with Home Hospice and a visiting Angel service.

You could try to have one more sensible conversation, but I would let the Hospice Social Worker, and Head Nurse, know where you stand. Hopefully they wil be able to talk some sense into them. Having him in a facility especially an Assisted living facility, he will be getti better end of life care, and everyone will be able to go to him, and visit, taking the stress of the hands on caregiving, off of families hands. Good luck, and I will be thinking of you during this most difficult time!

Many people do want to go home to die and many families do their best to accommodate their wishes. There is something about dying in your own bed with familiar things and people with you.
Many times this just is not possible so you have to make the best decisions possible for your loved ones. If FIL has been in AL for some time this is now his home and he may be happy to remain where he is if the necessary care is available.

windytown, you are making the right decision to not take him home. The absent SIL is wallowing in her own sense of guilt and trying to find ways to make it all up to him. She's thinking with her heart and not her head. Gently steer her away from her obsession, name the roadblocks sympathetically.

Oh my gosh. You, my AC friends are a godsend. Husband was reassured from reading your comments. He was very against bringing dad home. 3 out of 5 sisters are now backing up my husband. One naively thinks his 85 year old friend can take of him. The other volunteered her time. Teary eyed it's our dad guys, kind of woman. Geez!

Tough conversation with FIL ahead. I still have my mom in AL. So much negativity. Life is hard enough with her. Oh my gosh! When do WE get a break

Well, I have a very positive follow-up. FIL will be staying at the AL willingly. A longtime friend had a heart to heart conversation with him yesterday and my FIL had a meeting with a home care service.

Treasure the fact if your elders have long term friends available to them. I'm not so fortunate. Anyway, FIL's friend was able to get through to him about his many falls recently and he would not wish for him to be alone. Later in the day, a home care agency told him that his care is out of their range of abilities and responsibility. In short, he is beyond home care.

My husband told me it went as well as can be expected. His dad is upset but resigned. Told them to sell his place and settle his things. They all had dinner together at the AL and talked about settling him into his own little apartment at the AL.

HUGE sigh of relief as anyone can imagine! Thank you so much for your support AC friends. There will be rough days ahead but a least he will have a team there 24/7. I feel so fortunate for everyone involved having gone through my own dad's terminal cancer without that kind of care for two months. Hospice was a blessing but they are there rarely unless called and my mother wouldn't let us more often than not.

Prayers for all of you going through hard times with stubborn family. I'm sure ours are not over but a least this decision was made with not total angst and drama.

My thoughts are with all of you and again many thanks for your kind advice!

Thank you so much for the update, Windy. I am so glad for the outcome!

You said FIL has one week left in AL. So where does he go from there if not home??

What wonderful news, windy. All I can think is YEA!! Everyone knew it was for the best. Thank goodness his friend was a real friend to him.

Dustien, He had one week left to live there on respite care. They only allow someone to live there on respite for one month. Now he will move to his own room full-time at the same AL.

Oh, I'm so glad. My dad is two weeks in AL now and he's happy there. He wasn't wanting to go either, but now is glad he did. So I hope things continue to go well for him there. I know it's a relief as our whole family is feeling the same. Our dad isn't do well health wise, but at least we know there's someone there who can help him both physically and medically. We also have hospice coming in nearly daily now... so all is as well as we an make it.

Don't do it. You can't take of him at home! At 300 pounds he'll throw your back out!

Getting them home at this time is what our hearts tell us is the right thing to do, but it is not the best for the patient. My mom is in AL-Memory Care late stage Alz. and other needs to. She is 100lbs and it is all 1 aide can do to transfer her from bed to bathroom/wheelchair. It will be very overwhelming, impossible physically for her to handle him and care for his needs. She'd need 2 "qualified" people to attend to him properly 24/7. They need to be where they can get the best care and with all his illnesses it would be a huge undertaking and more expensive to hire 2 people. He needs to be in a nursing home, where people are trained to handle someone who has his disabilities. Just stay with him as much as you can and cherish that time, knowing help is available as needed. Spend 24 hours there and observe all the help he needs. Hospice is AWESOME.

Thanks Lllamalover47 and lovinmommie,

It's been resolved. FIL is staying at the AL. Goofy SILs decided he should move to a 2 bedroom suite though to the tune of $9,150 a month! Though he is on hospice, that is not being a good steward of his financial situation in my mind.

He lives in his recliner, does not need more than one room. In their mind, the second room will be a place to lounge and chat, a family room of sorts. At $2,000 a month!!!

This may be unusual, but my mother lived at the exact same place for 2 1/2 years in a one room suite. It was $6,000 a month and there are plenty of places for socializing both public and private. I find it totally ludicrous that they couldn't wait two weeks for a private room to open up.

Still pleasing Daddy. His funds are limited. I've been managing my mom's funds for 6 years. As I said, we are their steward when it comes to managing their money. It turns my stomach how stupid they are about things regarding their dad. Can't say a thing though, only DIL.

Windy - I'm just curious, in the regular private rooms - is the bed in the main room like a studio apartment or is there a separate bedroom? If there is a separate bedroom than a two bedroom just seems silly. But perhaps a "nicer" suite helps with SILs guilt? But yes, someone should be doing the math to ensure father doesn't run out of money and end up at the mercy of a Medicaid placement. At one point I had to have this discussion with my brother - he had come up with a living situation for mom that would have run through her money in two years and at that point it was anyone's guess as to how long mom was going to live. In my moms case Medicaid wasn't an option as she had been giving a ton of money to charities. When I asked him how he was going to pay for moms care when her money was gone - he rethought his grand idea and decided it wasn't practical.

windytown, read the posts by xinabess to see how badly taking them home can turn out. You are doing the right thing by keeping him in a safe place. As for the second bedroom, well, hospice wants someone there 24/7, so they do need a place to sleep. Hang in there.

Rainmom and pamsegma,
Yes there is a whole seperate bedroom. Just silly in my mind as he just lives in one room. He has a hospital bed provided by hospice but never uses it. Just lives in his recliner. It's so sad.

If the girls would have had a little more patience, he could have had a private one bedroom suite saving 2 thousand a month. They needed to close down their cabin get away this weekend so booked the two bedroom for convenience.

I'm just so mad. They are having a good time at the cabin in the north woods and expect us to visit FIL. I assume other DIL who gets left out of everything visited him. My mother's 80th birthday was today. They can stuff it metaphorically speaking.

Windytown: You're welcome. Glad it has been resolved. If SIL's are dumb, not your prob!