Siblings are taking things bequeathed to others. Is this legal?

Your family members have presumed on your unwillingness to take legal action against them. But they are hurting the person you are legally responsible for and it is on your shoulders to make it stop. It is a heavy burden, no doubt, but you are the only one who can do it...you will not be the one who failed to "keep the peace," they are! Sorry this is happening, and praying you are given the strength and courage to do what needs done, or can delegate to someone else who can be the bad cop in an impartial manner. Tough spot to be in, but the right thing is not just to let this keep happening.

Dear Lisa - I read your 'thought for the day' and tend to agree with you. As your sibling has rec'd a copy of the Will and knows that what she is taking was bequeathed to another; the court could very well construe this as contesting the Will. However, as you are finding out; lawyers and courts are costly, time consuming and very stressful. You are also correct in your finding that lawyers (not all - but it's been my experience that most) will assess the value of the case and drag it out for as long as there is money to be made.

I'm wondering what your sister would do if you mention to her that your mom may have to go onto Medicaid and the state will scrutinize the Will, bank accts. and other assets. When they determine that she has taken things illegally, her bank accounts could be frozen and the matter given to the state District Attorney's office to handle as a criminal matter.

Should this happen - it would be out of your hands and she'd be in some very serious trouble.

After letting your sister get by with this illegal action for almost a year, I think the time for warning is over and is time to act like filing a police report. This is more than a family matter and it might help to stop looking at it that way, but view it as a legal and business matter and part of your legal responsibility as a co-guardian. From a legal and guardian perspective, I believe your mother needs protecting and you have the legal authority to do that protecting by reporting this. Anyway, that is my opinion.

Lisa I'm sure your father would turn in his grave at the thought of your being forced to file charges; but the trouble is that your family is not taking this seriously enough and you need to concentrate their minds. It isn't a civil matter, it's a criminal one, which is to say that this isn't a matter of your suing other members of your family for damages or compensation on your mother's behalf but instead, as you say, of their facing criminal charges. I also share the general wariness of attorneys, especially the ones who lick their chops at the thought of a nice juicy trust to get their teeth into; and I suspect that you are correct to believe that the court would throw up its hands in despair and turn the whole thing over to their own appointed official.

Do you know any policemen? Have you ever had any dealings with your local police service? I ask, because one solution that occurs to me would be to discuss this situation hypothetically with someone who can give you professional guidance; then to write in formal terms to your sister, copying in the rest of the family, spelling out the implications of what has taken place and what charges would apply. This would be, then, an ultimatum: cease removing property, return what has been stolen, or you turn this over to the police to pursue. Your sister has been taking the p*ss, frankly, because she has believed that you would allow her to get away with it. Warn her now, credibly, that she is wrong.

By not reporting them for almost a year now you have been enabling them in their wrong behavior.

How are your siblings going to milk you for every cent being that you are co-guardian and they have not right to the money currently?

I think instead of getting all sorts of advice from friends that you need to sit down and talk with a real lawyer about this.

OK. You are right. I've come so close to reporting all of this so many times and then back off. My Dad was such a peace-loving man and I keep thinking he would not want me to file charges on members of our family. Yet, as I've said before, in not doing so they have become more bold in taking whatever they see and want. As Mom's co-guardian, I do have to make a yearly report to the court and I had decided to put everything down. I wonder if anyone truly reads those reports. I'm also going to send a copy of this report to Adults Protective Services. I have spoken to attorneys and they have advised me that there is little chance of me ever seeing the items taken, but we might be able to stop them from taking anything else and either returning the items or suing them for the monetary value. How do you place monetary value on your great grandmothers wedding band and all of the family pictures? Each attorney has been willing to take my case, but want a substantial retainer. Others have told me to be cautious in involving an attorney because many of them, if they know there is substantial money and assets, will milk me of every cent they can yet change the circumstances very little if they don't make them worse. I've been told the court, upon realizing my sister and I cannot work together, may appoint a guardian and this person will be paid a monthly fee by the estate. If Mom lives a few years, the amount paid out could be huge. I wrestle with what Dad would want me to do, what is in the best welfare for my mother, and what my legal obligations are. I know the time to make a decision is here, but it isn't easy and continues to have me tied up in knots..

Lisa, I hate to add to your stress but I completely agree with LadyLee that these are thefts which you must report to the police. I further agree with her, though I'd put it more strongly, that you should have your POA hat on when you think about these points. It is your *responsibility* to protect your mother's interests, and turning a blind eye to straightforward theft is NOT ok. How would you feel if you were later accused of colluding with your siblings? God forbid that should happen, but that's what it could easily look like if somebody didn't know the full story.

These people are taking items to which they have no title. It is theft. Write down a full statement giving dates, items removed and people responsible and take it to the police.

Lisa4Mom, I think you need to call the Police and make a theft report. Send a letter in writing or email to all the parties letting them know that you will be contacting the police to report all missing items stolen including past and future items if not returned at once. Then you have to actually do it.
This is wrong wrong wrong in so many ways.
Just because someone is a relative does not give them the right to steal from her and she entrusted you to look out for her both financially and morally.
Unless you put a screeching halt to this type of behavior it will never stop.
Think with your POA brain and not the sibling brain.
Everyone knows what they are doing is wrong. No matter how they try to justify it. Lying and Stealing are not ok, EVER!
( so sorry the people
who should be supporting and helping are doing this)

I agree it should be about compassion and love, but the reality for me is that the more I try to "look the other way" or think they have done and taken all they will, my sibling only become more bold. My sister has now told her children to take what they want before their grandmother passes. So, my niece and her boyfriend pulled into Mom's yard and loaded her patio furniture onto his truck and now the patio furniture is setting on my niece's patio. Mom loved sitting on her patio for morning coffee, and tells everyone she put the furniture in storage. She told me, however, that my niece told her I was going to steal it and she wanted to take it to her house so it would be safe. I haven't taken ANYTHING from my Mom's - even after so much has been taken by others. It is tempting sometimes because most of the things that would mean something to me or that were bequeathed to me and my children are already gone. But, if I take something - anything - I'm no better than my siblings and now their children. I guess it is true the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

We have to keep all our strength as caregivers. The h*ll with the money it's about compassion and love.

Not to be glib, but you need a lawyer to watch the other lawyer.

Carebill, Gifting is only allowed if it is a regular behavior. If a person routinely give all the grandchildren 500$ and children 3000$ at Christmas that can continue. However large gifts all of a sudden are suspect particularly when the person is no longer controlling their own money, that would be divestment.

About 5 days ago I mentioned the wills and siblings. I got no response. These actions by siblings can be found in cave man days. It's a law of nature!

If the latest one isn't successfully challenged, that one holds, right?

Believe it or not my father-in-law had 5 wills when he died all done in secret by loving siblings.

Thanks for the responses. They are very helpful. To answer some of your questions..Yes, we did go to court to be awarded co-guardian and co-POA. The attorney we hired to update the family trust after my father passed sent copies of the family trust and Mom's last will to my siblings. Mom and Dad told me they had created a trust and their wills 20 years ago and put me on their signature card at their bank. It was their decision not to inform my siblings and I honored that. They became aware of the trust and wills after Dad passed. When I called the attorney on him sending copies without anyone requesting he do so, he petitioned the court to be excused as oru attorney. I believe my parents loved their children equally, but did not trust their wishes would be honored and they would know no peace. It was their decision. I had no impact on their trust or wills and knew nothing of them until after they were created. Sadly, my parents fears were right on and it has cost me any relationship with my siblings hereafter.

Many people are in the same position with siblings, leaving many an only child very relieved that they don't have problems anything like what some of us experience.

There ARE people who have reliable, trustworthy siblings - or maybe are in situations where integrity hasn't been tested. Unfortunately, we aren't among them.

My heart goes out to you. Please keep in touch with us and let us know what you learn.

This is so discouraging. This is a great forum. I've learned a great deal. But I've learned some ugly truths, too: family stealing from family; family taking advantage of the loved one they're caring for; stealing from them; using them; siblings fighting amongst themselves about who does more . . . resenting their sibling isn't paying rent while they're care-giving 24/7 for a loved one.

It is so very sad. When I was in my early 20's, I told my aunt that I was sad I didn't have any brothers and sisters. She said, "Maggie, you're thinking you'd have this wonderful relationship with them. That's not always the case."

Now I understand. I'm glad I'm an only.

I went to the hair stylist today (mom's respite day at the eldercare center), and the subject came up. She said, "Oh, it must be so hard because you're the only child." I said, "I'm not sure that's true."

On and ON she went about her troubles with her three sisters and their aged mom. She even cried.

OMG, I don't know what I'd do if I had all the responsibilities of my mom plus the ungrateful and ugly actions of siblings and other family.

Lisa, thanks for the update. I'm glad you were able to get some action started through this attorney.

I suspect the legal fees aren't chargeable to the Trust because's just not what it's for. If there were actions against the Settlor or Trustee, the Trust funds might be available.

On the other hand, the action is to protect the assets of the Trust, so it could justified under that theory.

But it really would depend on the language and provisions of the Trust.

Anyway, good luck on moving forward. This must relieve some of the pressure on you to know that you now have legal support and are on the right track.

To address a few comments. Mom did put names on items. Those names have been removed. My sister has already moved over $17,000 from my mother's account (in the Trust name) to her own. I threatened to file charges if the money was not returned. It took several weeks, but the money was returned and I quickly invested this $$ into the Trust investment funds where it is protected, but still accessible if needed to care for Mom. My husband and I met with an attorney yesterday and it was confirmed for us that Fraudulent Conversion has been committed by my siblings. A "Demand" letter is being prepared and will be sent to my siblings. If the bequeathed items are not returned the we will file charges and I actions will begin to remove my sister as Co-POA and Co-Guardian. I pray the items are returned because this attorney was not certain the legal fees could be paid by the trust. I don't understand why they couldn't since they are not being returned to ME, but do my mother, i.e. protecting the assets of the trust (since all of her personal assets are covered under the trust as well).

show them the brass knucks mom bequeathed them .

Carebill, you forgot to mention the "look back" period & the claw back.

Make sure your sister isn't moving money from your mother's account to her own as a way of preserving the assets so that your mother and her heirs won't lose everything if she needs to go on medicaid when a nursing home situation arises. In that case it is called "gifting" and it is legal.

This sounds like my father's side of the family. Some siblings actually broke into the house and took things. I would definitely call and report it. It's a shame that she didn't put names on the items years ago, but people just don't think ahead.

Lisa, I definitely would ask the judge to give your mother's lawyer a stern warning about not divulging the contents of any wills in the future until after his clients die. What that attorney did is idiotic.

Lisa, gather your data (aka, ammunition), and then take it back into court and ask the judge to remove your sister as co-guardian and co-POA. Everything your mother has bequeathed to others in her will is hers until she dies. That means that all of these items can be sold to help pay for her care.

I reported my sister to the state investigators in the elder financial abuse department of DSHS. The investigator talked to our mother and my sisters and got financial records and medical records. Nothing came of it. She closed the case. She wouldn't tell me why. Nothing. I do know that my mother was so afraid that my sisters would be in trouble that she defended their actions. That was a BIG problem. The fact that she meets the legal definition of a vulnerable adult, didn't make any difference.

I also went to a lawyer when I first discovered the extent of the financial abuse my sisters were involved in. The lawyer said that without a dementia diagnosis in the medical records, it is VERY hard to prove financial abuse. My mother has dementia and it is progressing. It is obvious to anyone who has a conversation with her. I can only assume that the word "dementia" is not in her medical records yet.

In the meantime, I have lost my whole family of origin over this. Truthfully, even though I am heartbroken that my sisters would stoop so low and take such terrible advantage of my mother, I know that in the long run I am better off without such dysfunctional people in my life.

If you are going to pursue this, be prepared for a whole lot of heartache in your future.

I've given this a lot of thought and the comments you've shared have been very helpful. Mom has very good days where she is in touch with reality. I'm praying for one of those days when I visit and we go through the list of bequeaths. I have to be certain these are NOT anywhere in her home (box in the basement, etc.) before I make any "official" accusations. Then I will contact the attorney and he can tell me if I need to also report the theft to the police. As soon as I can arrange it, I'm also going to take a videographic inventory of her home for future reference. I walk through my home and feel like I've got an elephant on my back. The knowledge that as soon as I make these accusations public, I'm closing the door on my siblings and they will be even more adamant to find a way to get back at me.

What Maggie says is true. I am POA for a couple and it is sometimes difficult to keep the best interest of each individual foremost in your mind. That is your job as POA to follow their wishes, when in a clear frame of mind, as long as it will not hurt them in any way.

Financial Exploitation of a Vulnerable Person is a Crime!