Siblings are taking things bequeathed to others. Is this legal?

Not to condone looters, but I can see a situation where Mom could be giving away things to family members that she has forgotten she promised or bequeathed to others. And if those family members haven't been around her much lately, they may not realize how far the dementia has gone, and just accept that dear Mom or Grandma wants them to have the item. Now, the $17k is a bit much to swallow, but I can see the household items being given away in this manner without assuming people are being vultures.

Is the sister who's moving money to her own account a co-POA? If yes, then there's not much you can do there. (I'm assuming that's the case.) If it were me, since my sister (co-POA) was moving mom's money into her own name, I would seize the REST of mom's money and make it impossible for her to access.

As to the family coming in like vultures and taking her property, that's theft. Pure and simple. I would change the locks on the doors (at mom's expense), install a house alarm, and have the service call the cops if someone came in.

Who was the jake who gave out copies of your mom's will? Jesus. What an insult to your mother. When she made up her last will and testament, she expected those involved to hold it private UNTIL SHE DIED.

What a sorry bunch.

Plain & simple---they are stealing your mother's assets. Transferring money from your mother's bank account into her own account without a written consent from her is illegal. Even though your sister may be POA, she still can't take money she is not entitled to. (You say you're co-durable POA, but there can only be one POA, & then a secondary POA if the primary POA is unable to carry out their duties. Unless you're the primary POA, your sister is the primary POA. Read the documents carefully.) The same thing holds true for tangible assets---because she has dementia that has been diagnosed by a physician (hopefully), your mother is no longer capable of making informed decisions, so even if they claim she agreed to "gift" them with something, it's bogus. Plus---you can only give a certain amount of money or assets to someone annually without tax ramifications. Children cannot take things because they "don't agree" with your mother about who should get the tangible items. Your siblings should go through your mother's attorney if they want something of hers---they're not allowed to just take stuff especially if they've been bequeathed to other people.

This is how I'd deal with it: I would contact my siblings & tell them that unless they return the tangible items, and unless your sister moves the money back into your mother's account within 24 hours, you are going to file a police report & report it to the lawyer that drafted your mother's will. You will proceed with filing charges against your sister for stealing money---depending on what state you live in & how much she moved, it could be a felony for grand larceny---and file charges against your other siblings for theft as well. That should be enough impetus for them to return the items & for your sister to return the money. If they don't return the items & your sister doesn't move the money back, proceed with pressing charges. You could file a civil lawsuit, but it would take a very long time to work its way through the courts. Criminal charges are far more intimidating & far quicker.

What I am a little confused about is why, if your sister is primary POA, she did not get a copy of your mother's will. If your mother trusted her with her financial matters to make her POA, it seems odd that she wouldn't get a copy of the will. Why would your mother make your sister POA if she didn't trust her? Perhaps you need to find out if the transfer of money was for a specific reason, not just because she wanted the money. Taking tangible items is just being greedy.

Does your mother live by herself, or is she in a long term care facility, assisted living or is one of your siblings taking care of her?

husband was named executor of his parents will, and lives in California, while the 7 siblings live where his parents lived in New York? He knew he was Executor, his dad told him, and yet no one gave him the Will, Accounts, never said a word to him, except his sister who was handling the accounts,just stated that as long as everyone agrees with her, there wont be a problem. two years later, my husband gets a letter from an attorney, stating that he hasn't done his job as executor, and want him to rescind it to his younger brother, who has sole ownership of parents home, since then he has taken money out of estate to fix up parents home, without permission of anyone, and he says he was doing it to sell it, and but took like 20K out of accounts to do this with, and paying himself for the work, which was not necessary for the sale. Once the house is sold, he is suppose to split with all siblings, he hasn't done anything yet, this 4 plus years, and he lets his kids, nephews & nieces live there rent free. Is this legal? It has caused a huge hurt in our family, the way they handled it, they hired the attorney to send the recision to my husband, and then said they had no idea about it.

Speaking of relatives taking advantage...my dear friend's sister took her mother to an attorney and changed the will into a trust leaving everything to herself...sister got nothing...the mom just smiles when she meets people...I knew the mom for 30 years she did not know me before she went to the attorney...When we contacted attorney to take the sister to court, he said it cost too much $ up front for us to afford...the sister now lives in Florida bought a new beautiful boat! The other sister had cancer and is living in a trailer.

Tell Hubby to either give it up or go to New York and close the estate.

Financial Exploitation of a Vulnerable Person is a Crime!

What Maggie says is true. I am POA for a couple and it is sometimes difficult to keep the best interest of each individual foremost in your mind. That is your job as POA to follow their wishes, when in a clear frame of mind, as long as it will not hurt them in any way.

I've given this a lot of thought and the comments you've shared have been very helpful. Mom has very good days where she is in touch with reality. I'm praying for one of those days when I visit and we go through the list of bequeaths. I have to be certain these are NOT anywhere in her home (box in the basement, etc.) before I make any "official" accusations. Then I will contact the attorney and he can tell me if I need to also report the theft to the police. As soon as I can arrange it, I'm also going to take a videographic inventory of her home for future reference. I walk through my home and feel like I've got an elephant on my back. The knowledge that as soon as I make these accusations public, I'm closing the door on my siblings and they will be even more adamant to find a way to get back at me.

I reported my sister to the state investigators in the elder financial abuse department of DSHS. The investigator talked to our mother and my sisters and got financial records and medical records. Nothing came of it. She closed the case. She wouldn't tell me why. Nothing. I do know that my mother was so afraid that my sisters would be in trouble that she defended their actions. That was a BIG problem. The fact that she meets the legal definition of a vulnerable adult, didn't make any difference.

I also went to a lawyer when I first discovered the extent of the financial abuse my sisters were involved in. The lawyer said that without a dementia diagnosis in the medical records, it is VERY hard to prove financial abuse. My mother has dementia and it is progressing. It is obvious to anyone who has a conversation with her. I can only assume that the word "dementia" is not in her medical records yet.

In the meantime, I have lost my whole family of origin over this. Truthfully, even though I am heartbroken that my sisters would stoop so low and take such terrible advantage of my mother, I know that in the long run I am better off without such dysfunctional people in my life.

If you are going to pursue this, be prepared for a whole lot of heartache in your future.

Lisa, gather your data (aka, ammunition), and then take it back into court and ask the judge to remove your sister as co-guardian and co-POA. Everything your mother has bequeathed to others in her will is hers until she dies. That means that all of these items can be sold to help pay for her care.

Lisa, I definitely would ask the judge to give your mother's lawyer a stern warning about not divulging the contents of any wills in the future until after his clients die. What that attorney did is idiotic.

This sounds like my father's side of the family. Some siblings actually broke into the house and took things. I would definitely call and report it. It's a shame that she didn't put names on the items years ago, but people just don't think ahead.

Make sure your sister isn't moving money from your mother's account to her own as a way of preserving the assets so that your mother and her heirs won't lose everything if she needs to go on medicaid when a nursing home situation arises. In that case it is called "gifting" and it is legal.

Carebill, you forgot to mention the "look back" period & the claw back.

show them the brass knucks mom bequeathed them .

To address a few comments. Mom did put names on items. Those names have been removed. My sister has already moved over $17,000 from my mother's account (in the Trust name) to her own. I threatened to file charges if the money was not returned. It took several weeks, but the money was returned and I quickly invested this $$ into the Trust investment funds where it is protected, but still accessible if needed to care for Mom. My husband and I met with an attorney yesterday and it was confirmed for us that Fraudulent Conversion has been committed by my siblings. A "Demand" letter is being prepared and will be sent to my siblings. If the bequeathed items are not returned the we will file charges and I actions will begin to remove my sister as Co-POA and Co-Guardian. I pray the items are returned because this attorney was not certain the legal fees could be paid by the trust. I don't understand why they couldn't since they are not being returned to ME, but do my mother, i.e. protecting the assets of the trust (since all of her personal assets are covered under the trust as well).

Lisa, thanks for the update. I'm glad you were able to get some action started through this attorney.

I suspect the legal fees aren't chargeable to the Trust because's just not what it's for. If there were actions against the Settlor or Trustee, the Trust funds might be available.

On the other hand, the action is to protect the assets of the Trust, so it could justified under that theory.

But it really would depend on the language and provisions of the Trust.

Anyway, good luck on moving forward. This must relieve some of the pressure on you to know that you now have legal support and are on the right track.

This is so discouraging. This is a great forum. I've learned a great deal. But I've learned some ugly truths, too: family stealing from family; family taking advantage of the loved one they're caring for; stealing from them; using them; siblings fighting amongst themselves about who does more . . . resenting their sibling isn't paying rent while they're care-giving 24/7 for a loved one.

It is so very sad. When I was in my early 20's, I told my aunt that I was sad I didn't have any brothers and sisters. She said, "Maggie, you're thinking you'd have this wonderful relationship with them. That's not always the case."

Now I understand. I'm glad I'm an only.

I went to the hair stylist today (mom's respite day at the eldercare center), and the subject came up. She said, "Oh, it must be so hard because you're the only child." I said, "I'm not sure that's true."

On and ON she went about her troubles with her three sisters and their aged mom. She even cried.

OMG, I don't know what I'd do if I had all the responsibilities of my mom plus the ungrateful and ugly actions of siblings and other family.

Many people are in the same position with siblings, leaving many an only child very relieved that they don't have problems anything like what some of us experience.

There ARE people who have reliable, trustworthy siblings - or maybe are in situations where integrity hasn't been tested. Unfortunately, we aren't among them.

My heart goes out to you. Please keep in touch with us and let us know what you learn.

Thanks for the responses. They are very helpful. To answer some of your questions..Yes, we did go to court to be awarded co-guardian and co-POA. The attorney we hired to update the family trust after my father passed sent copies of the family trust and Mom's last will to my siblings. Mom and Dad told me they had created a trust and their wills 20 years ago and put me on their signature card at their bank. It was their decision not to inform my siblings and I honored that. They became aware of the trust and wills after Dad passed. When I called the attorney on him sending copies without anyone requesting he do so, he petitioned the court to be excused as oru attorney. I believe my parents loved their children equally, but did not trust their wishes would be honored and they would know no peace. It was their decision. I had no impact on their trust or wills and knew nothing of them until after they were created. Sadly, my parents fears were right on and it has cost me any relationship with my siblings hereafter.

Believe it or not my father-in-law had 5 wills when he died all done in secret by loving siblings.

If the latest one isn't successfully challenged, that one holds, right?

About 5 days ago I mentioned the wills and siblings. I got no response. These actions by siblings can be found in cave man days. It's a law of nature!

Carebill, Gifting is only allowed if it is a regular behavior. If a person routinely give all the grandchildren 500$ and children 3000$ at Christmas that can continue. However large gifts all of a sudden are suspect particularly when the person is no longer controlling their own money, that would be divestment.

Not to be glib, but you need a lawyer to watch the other lawyer.

We have to keep all our strength as caregivers. The h*ll with the money it's about compassion and love.

I agree it should be about compassion and love, but the reality for me is that the more I try to "look the other way" or think they have done and taken all they will, my sibling only become more bold. My sister has now told her children to take what they want before their grandmother passes. So, my niece and her boyfriend pulled into Mom's yard and loaded her patio furniture onto his truck and now the patio furniture is setting on my niece's patio. Mom loved sitting on her patio for morning coffee, and tells everyone she put the furniture in storage. She told me, however, that my niece told her I was going to steal it and she wanted to take it to her house so it would be safe. I haven't taken ANYTHING from my Mom's - even after so much has been taken by others. It is tempting sometimes because most of the things that would mean something to me or that were bequeathed to me and my children are already gone. But, if I take something - anything - I'm no better than my siblings and now their children. I guess it is true the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Lisa4Mom, I think you need to call the Police and make a theft report. Send a letter in writing or email to all the parties letting them know that you will be contacting the police to report all missing items stolen including past and future items if not returned at once. Then you have to actually do it.
This is wrong wrong wrong in so many ways.
Just because someone is a relative does not give them the right to steal from her and she entrusted you to look out for her both financially and morally.
Unless you put a screeching halt to this type of behavior it will never stop.
Think with your POA brain and not the sibling brain.
Everyone knows what they are doing is wrong. No matter how they try to justify it. Lying and Stealing are not ok, EVER!
( so sorry the people
who should be supporting and helping are doing this)

Lisa, I hate to add to your stress but I completely agree with LadyLee that these are thefts which you must report to the police. I further agree with her, though I'd put it more strongly, that you should have your POA hat on when you think about these points. It is your *responsibility* to protect your mother's interests, and turning a blind eye to straightforward theft is NOT ok. How would you feel if you were later accused of colluding with your siblings? God forbid that should happen, but that's what it could easily look like if somebody didn't know the full story.

These people are taking items to which they have no title. It is theft. Write down a full statement giving dates, items removed and people responsible and take it to the police.