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My oldest sister was appointed POA by my mom who barely survived a stroke and has been in a nursing home for 5 years. My mom did the paperwork before the stroke. She has been taking a rather hefty monthly salary ($1000 per month) and has also been driving my mom's (then, fairly new) car for 5 years (saving herself hundreds of $$ in car payments each month), justifying that she deserves it for all she is doing to help care for my mom and deal with the bills. My other sisters and I are worried that this has gone on too long. We want the POA to stop paying herself, but she just thinks that all we care about is the money. We care just as much about my mom as the POA, but feel that this large monthly salary has gone on long enough (actually too long), especially since my mom is fairly stable and in a nursing home. We were all together (4 of us) just a month ago, and tried to talk about this, but the oldest sister is not being transparent with the finances, and decided to have a lawyer write us a letter when we started asking questions rather than answer us herself. Clearly it was an attempt to pacify us. We just want her to stop taking money out of my mom's estate. Two sisters live near to my mom, and two are further away. I'm one of the further away ones. Any suggestions?

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I've been POA for my father going on 7 years. It has been insanely time consuming.
Even though I live out of state, I talk to him every day, his caregivers at care facility
1x week. Plus coordinating moves, ordering, lost items such as credit cards, botched
orders, problems with care, facility, doctors orders and apps, physical therapy etc etc.

Flying out means the price of plane tix, transport to and from airport, lodging, and food.
Plus pet care costs while I'm gone. It adds up quickly.

That said, I would be able to quickly show someone his expenses and what I've spent my
time on by phone logs and ordering receipts, etc. I have no siblings, but if I were your
sister I would consider part of the duties of being a POA was to account for my time
and expenses. I took compensation initially while he was having to move household
several times and had to go through several major operations and recovery. For the
last four years I have not and I guesstimate that I'm probably $20,000 out of pocket
at this point. Not counting the time Ive spent helping him.

So yes, it does add up and your sister MIGHT need to be compensated, but transparency
should be a given. Hell, I'd love for someone to see all the stuff I've been doing for him.
Always nice to get a little pat on the back and acknowledgement.
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Money money money the nursing home probly gets 4,000, bucks a month or even 7 or 9 grand they are EXTREMELY PRICEY!! some of them charge right down to tyeing a shoe !combing the hair ! Ect...and some do not supply laundry service, or special diets ,so the POA will have to bring all of this ..and if they do laundry you have to be worried about bugs like scabies bed bugs missing clothes ect....if mom falls at 2 am POA has to get up and go.if mom is sick POA has to go take to Doctors appt..the POA has routine doctor visits .....POA is a VERY HARD JOB ! TRUST ME
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Money money money the nursing home probly gets 4,000, bucks a month or even 7 or 9 grand they are EXTREMELY PRICEY!! some of them charge right down to tyeing a shoe !combing the hair ! Ect...and some do not supply laundry service, or special diets ,so the POA will have to bring all of this ..and if they do laundry you have to be worried about bugs like scabies bed bugs missing clothes ect....if mom falls at 2 am POA has to get up and go.if mom is sick POA has to go take to Doctors appt..the POA has routine doctor visits .....POA is a VERY HARD JOB ! TRUST ME
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If it was written in the POA was that prior to the stroke? Was a facility in the picture? Is your mother of sound mind? Physical disability is not in question (stroke). The POA lives near but how much daily hands on is performed. Does she pay the telephone bill, cable, drive to Dr. appointments, out of facility outings? $1k does sound a little steep, however, another post did break that down to $250 a week and driving the car is harming whom? At least she has transportation to get to the home.
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Yes, there is the POA, and then there is a separate Caregivers Contract, both determined by the Parent, Loved One or friend who is assigning that person, and up to him/her to determine what the caregiver should recieved as a payment of services, two different things.

My husband is both Medical and Financial POA for his Father, and when he lived with us, there was a Caregivers Contract, stipulating how much he was to be paid each month, including his room and board. He was never financially compensated for being his POA, paying his bills, doing his banking or any of that.

Once he left our home to live in the Independent side of an Assisted living facility, my husband was still compensated a much smaller amount, saying 200 dollarsa month, for assisting him with several ADL's (showering, laundry, toenail care etc), as well as doing his shopping, taking him for haircuts, and taking him to and from the many Dr's appointments he had each month.

As long as the proper agreements are in place, and the care given reflects the amount of work done to assist the Senior, I don't see a problem, but 1000 dollars does seem a little steep, considering she is in a Nursing home and they tend to the majority of the work for the Senior, but again, every situation is different.
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To be paid, there are caregiver agreements. They are available via attorneys or online and need to be witnessed. The rate should not be over the going rate for home health aides in whichever state you live in. Compensation for travel, phone calls with providers, healthcare staff, etc. is included. I'd suggest googling a document.
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I may be splitting hairs, but I think that even when the POA document restricts you from receiving compensation that only applies to the actual duties of a POA. IMO cleaning out the frig, transport to appointments and the myriad of other tasks many POAs perform are not part of those duties, they are caregiving.
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Sometimes the POA document expressly allows the agent to pay themselves. My mom's did. It is a lot of work and should be compensated after all the agent is doing everything while often times other beneficiaries are standing on the sidelines waiting for assets to which they feel entitled.
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no
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I just spend 153 hours over the last 6 weeks in caring for an old friend who has no wife or children or involved relatives. I am his POA. This started out being a labor or love but has become an exhausting burden. People who have never taken the responsibility of caring for someone whose health is riding a roller coaster can be blind or misguided about what is involved. There were consults with doctors, talks with social workers, investigations into assisted living and visits to make sure they would be ok, handling on ongoing bills, cleaning out the refrigerator of rotting food, delivering clothes to the hospital, picking up the mail and voice messages, etc. etc. thought that someone taking $1000/mo for such responsibility is overpaid and greedy is frankly silly. I have yet to check whether the POA I agreed to will compensate me, but if it doesn't, what a shame. What a martyr I've become. If I burn out, divert all my energy into this one activity and neglect myself, who will take care of my friend?
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If your sister is taking care of your mother? Just because your mother is in a nursing home doesn't mean he car stops from family members. You love in another state? Your sister is in the mist if it. Does she do things with her? Bring her stuff? Keep on top of doctors appointments and medical needs? Then YES! Siblings that don't live in the same state as their aging parents and that are not in it everyday have no right to voice unless it's abused. Being there day in and day out takes time, money and away from your life. $1000 a month? You wake up every day and don't have to worry about a thing. You live your life you have your friends and don't stress about what your mother needs or what she wants. I think it's ridiculous that you're even questioning this. Try moving next to her and deal with what your sisters dealing with then talk.
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I have been overseeing my parent's care for 8 years now. I am the medical and financial POA. I am also a trustee on her trust and the executor of her will. I have siblings as well. NO WHERE in any document we have allows me to draw a salary. And it says that. The only money I can use is for reasonable expenses. If it says no salary, or does not mention one, then she should not be taking $1000 a month from your mother's estate. Period. You can get a lawyer and challenge the POA and request financial records.
As mentioned in a previous post, gifting of up to $14,000 a year per recipient is allowed tax free. Perhaps you can suggest that you each receive a gift amount so all will be equal. That is what I do. I also send my siblings and accounting of all the assets, stock trades, real estates transactions, cash on hand etc and then I show them a budget of what was spent last year and one that forecasts for the next year. They and anyone else is allowed to visit our parent anytime that want. Maybe you should suggest that as well.

If a lawyer or banker was to be a POA, there would be a salary and it is anywhere from 1% to 2% of the estate's annual value per year. There is a lot of work involved, or can be as in my case. My siblings see some of what I do, but they in no way shape or form know what I go through emotionally, mentally and physically every day, day in and day out and how much of a toll it takes on me. Only true care givers know this. My parent is in a facility and I still had to quit my job to oversee everything. There are so many moving parts, that I needed to focus only on this.

What I am saying about your sister is, she may deserve the money for the amount of work she is doing, but she is going about it the wrong way. The better way would have been for her to ask you if she could take a salary by exhibiting to you the amount of time and effort that goes into the job.

The only answer you have if she is not willing to show you the books, is to get a lawyer to force her to.
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This sounds very suspicious. No, they should not be taking very hefty fees from the person they're taking care of, this is just another clever way of stealing money and eventually other assets. What you're describing is just another form of elder financial abuse when they take advantage like you're describing. It sounds like the POA needs to be removed and relieved of duty and made to pay restitution
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I have several items in my "in box" that need filing, but everything's organized and up to date. I get anxiety if I don't have everything in order :)
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yes, I agree, I am poa for my mom and my document actually does say I have to do annual accounting, which I recently did (it was easy after having done her taxes). It is a lot of work to put it all together into one document, and then go over each page with her, and explain anything she doesn't understand (which is most of it.....). the poa document only says I have to provide the accounting to her---not anyone else---but at least if I got brought to court later on by greedy sibs, having to do this yearly accounting will show (very easily) that I was totally on top of things and working regularly to keep her funds safe. As well as bringing her freshly baked muffins.....(on my way now).
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Amen akdaughter. I have receipts, bank statements and so on and am not required to answer to any one. Here anyone who can find evidence that I am misusing the funds can go to court to request a review of accounts. My sister might consider that, but she will find no evidence. There is also consideration of maintaining mother's privacy, which I honour as regards her finances and her health. She chose me to be POA as she trusts me. She has reason not to trust my sister and did not include in the POA document any stipulation to share info with anyone.
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Mallory, guardians and Social Security representative payees are required to submit annual reports. As POA, I am not required to answer to beneficiaries or the court, and I would certainly not welcome another "job" at this point. Those of us who work and/or have a family, as well as functioning as a POA, are already stretched pretty thin. I have a box full of receipts, and a pile of bank statements and medical EOBs, but it would take me hours to organize them and prepare a report. I would rather spend the time doing things for or with my mom than shuffling papers. In fact, if I was required to prepare and file detailed reports I would probably give up my POA.

The vast majority of POAs are not handling huge sums of money. We are more concerned about stretching those dollars to get the best possible care for our loved ones than abusing our POA power.
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I am going to write a book, POA's Run Amok! With POA they have specific duties and it may be required to provide some type of reporting. If a Revocable Living Trust is in place, they normally require at a minimum yearly accounting to be provided to beneficiaries.
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Wouldn't it be nice if Financial POA'S were required by their county, to fill out a basic accounting form, and supply it once a year? Or maybe that would be an invasion of privacy, or overreach of government. But seriously, there are so many stories of bad poa's that it does make one wish there were some type of government oversight. And this coming from me who is not a Liberal.
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I appreciate purplepaint's post - good to see and think about this side of it. But as cwillie noted, the lawyering up, the lack of transparency, would worry me too. I think this is one of those situations where it is best to be up-front, totally transparent, even if not legally required to. Saves a lot of trouble, and money, in the end.
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I did file extension for my taxes, and my mom's were filed & electronically accepted online. Part of the reason my own taxes are late, is they are more difficult than my mom's. I'm self-employed so have a lot of details to account for. Mom has all her little pot of money in 2 easy places, but those 1099's are a couple pages long, and so much easier to have TurboTax connect to the bank and fill it in automatically. That's what took so long at her bank. I've gotten so far behind in my own paperwork, because of her weekly doctor visits and issues with mobility (which are brand-new). Plus I don't think she's had a shower in 2 wks so I'm getting worried, she is a little stinky.
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$500 for a tax return for a single person?! That's outrageous! My mother's usually cost around $250 and that was due to how complicated it was with all of her investments. Social Security, bank account interest and teacher retirement would have been easy to do. But 1099's for investments and figuring up her medical deduction for her nursing home expenses minus what her long term care insurance paid for, forget it. I'd shop around for a less expensive CPA and definitely would not go to H & R Block for they charge you for just walking in the door basically. I had to find a new CPA this year and in shopping around found the estimates ranged from $600-$200 for my wife and I with a somewhat complicated return. Not all CPA's are created equal. Good luck and go ahead and file and extension for yourself and send in some money if you did not pay any estimated taxes. Good luck.
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My Mom's POA documents permit payment. The amount is not specifically listed, but it states what is reasonable and customary. Whatever the heck that means! I imagine the POA could justify anything from $15.00 an hour for an entry level bookkeeper or $350 an hour for an attorney. When you prepare these documents people, be specific!

I won't even go into the issues with the POA here. But very suspicious!
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I also do my mom's taxes in order to save her the $500 fee that a CPA would charge. I use the online software, and I get started as soon as I have all of the paperwork from SS, the banks and the annuity companies. It does take some time, but as POA, I feel like I should do everything I can to preserve her assets for her care. I also clip coupons for the supplies I purchase for her.

Mallory, can you file for an extension for your tax return? I believe that you can do this online, but if not, you can download the form from the IRS website. As long as it is postmarked by April 15th, you will be OK. The extension protects you from a penalty for a late return, but you still must pay enough to cover any tax you may owe by April 15th. If you haven't had enough withholding or estimated payments for the year, you will need to send money tomorrow. Good luck!
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I see your point, but why did you do the tax return instead of have a CPA do it? I was my mother's POA but I did not dare tackle her complicated taxes or the several years of unfilled taxes that she had lied to me about.
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Just finished mom's taxes, took me longer than expected! I am her POA and thought I had everything set up properly at bank. But the online access took several days of hurdles. Now, I don't have enough time to get my own taxes done. The feeling of "incompetence" instead of being on my mom's taxes, is towards not being done with my own taxes. How could I put a price tag on tbis? The answer is, there is no Price Tag that my siblings would understand or agree to--if I took extra time.to "itemize " every single thought process I had while working thru all the delays in doing mom's taxes, and now my own, the siblings would Never Ever understand. Yet, I feel my Life has really been like h%@& this past week. I'm just saying, those who are not the POA typically have no idea what it's really like, AND, even trying to "itemize" or.give an accounting of all that we do, doesn't even really "count" all the work and angst.
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I am also the POA for my mother and it is exhausting and basically I have lost my own life due to the tremendous load on me financially, emotionally, and physically! I am trying to get some sanity back to my own life so that I can be healthy again. Gained 25 pounds recently. I do not know what the law states, but I do reimburse myself for cost of gas, and any groceries I buy for her home. I try to be as fair as possible; knowing she is on a limited budget; but honestly, I have taken a hit financially due to me being unable to work more, (days off I stay with her), and I desperately need to work more to pay bills off that have accumulated due to my time spent with my mother each week. Do I want my siblings to be the POA? Absolutely not! I am honest, fair and feel I am better with my mother's care and her finances than my siblings. I am my mother's advocate and I guard her care and finances very well! The $1,000 monthly would have really helped me out, but my mother cannot afford that. I care for her on my days off so as to avoid additional costs for "paid" caregivers out of my mother's account. I am looking at other resources due my mother from the Veterans administration from my father's service in WWII, and other city resources to help care for the elderly with dementia! There are many resources so if you have a parent that has been in the military, check with the Veterans administration for resources.
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There is no doubt many POA's earn every penny they receive, and that many spend their own $$ without thought or recompense. I think the issue here is that when the sibs questioned the continuing expense she lawyer-ed up. Since a responsible POA is keeping financial records anyway it should have been a simple matter to provide the information requested and tell them to STFUp.
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Well stated, purplepaint. In addition to the duties you listed, many of us do the parent's laundry and shopping. I need to keep my mom (living in AL) supplied with Depends, soap, toothpaste, shampoo, lipstick, tissues and paper towels. I don't have Medicaid paperwork to do (yet), but I must keep track of her dwindling assets and make sure that her AL, pharmacy and insurance bills are paid on time. Siblings who are not involved have no idea about the hours involved and the stress.
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Alarmed… I am in the position of your sister with the POA responsibilities. My mother is in memory care for severe dementia. To you and anyone not in the POA position, please ask yourself what kind of time and money you devote or have devoted to raising a child. Thes same day-to-day decisions, worries, errands, and financial obligations are similar to what I deal with in taking care of my mother and her affairs.

From the outside, it looks like I just drop by once a week to check on her. Actually, in each visit I am watching for declines in her health or attitude, as well as any signs of mistreatment. Any problem, such as a sudden mood change recently in my mother, requires me to get in touch with both physical and mental specialists to run tests to see what may be causing the problem and how to alleviate it. It means coordinating with the administration of the facility she is living in as well as medical people. Then, I have to do all the phone calling days later to follow up on what has been done, because all these people do not let me know each step taken and the results.

There are so many decisions to make. Last year, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 86. She cannot think straight enough to discuss it. So, I had to decide. Cancer doctors wanted to do all kinds of chemo and radiation, but were unable to give me evidence (studies on aged women) to show me these radical and difficult treatments made sense for a woman of 86 with dementia and other health problems. My four siblings do not care to get involved. It fell on me, giving me weeks of worrying. Did I do the right thing? It still plagues me.

Then, there are all the agencies. Since my mother is on medicaid, I have to report every penny I spend on her to three separate agencies. The paperwork and spreadsheets are more than I do for my own yearly taxes for the IRS. And, if I make a mistake, my mother will lose medicaid.

About twice a year, I get a call, usually late at night, saying my mother is being brought to the hospital by ambulance. Sometimes is is a minor thing. Sometimes not. But, it always means spending the next few afternoons at the hospital, trying to get information about the problem, signing papers, and trying to calm my mother.

THE WORSE PART OF THIS IS THE LONELINESS. My husband is a jewel. Without him, I could not do all this. But, my siblings never ask if they can help. They only criticize and ask questions about money, as if I am getting rich from the POA. Yes, I do take a monthly salary, but it does not cover all the time I actually put into the job. I would gladly give up all the money if someone in the family would help me with this responsibility, without judgment of my decisions. A helping hand, instead of adding to the pain.

Alarmed, be thankful that there is someone in your family willing to do the work of POA. Put aside childhood differences and use your energy to support your sister. The important thing is that your mother is taken care of, is happy and healthy.
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