Should Dad's live-in caregiver/tenant be allowed to bring people over?

Not unreasonable at all. She is an employee. She needs to keep your Dad safe. Maybe renegotiate in 6 months.

I would say that having company over is a resounding NO.
Even if or when the caregiver is vaccinated she should not have guests over. This is not her home. This is her place of work and your dad’s home.

You are focused on her vaccinated status but what about her guests? What about the guests family? While it may be more difficult to get COVID-19 after doing vaccinated there is the possibility to still get one of the newer strains and you can still transmit the virus
When she is not working she can go visit her partner, her friends.

I feel you made the right decision. The caregiver is the one who is unreasonable and she should know better putting your dad at risk.

Cover and vaccinations aside....

Is this caregiver paid legally as an employee? How is her salary handled? Is she a tenant where part of her payment is room and board?

If not set up legally with an agreement and taxes etc withheld, you may be opening a can of worms unless done legally. She could file a complaint with the state department of labor.

If there is question about legality of the situation, contact an elder law attorney.

You better check that out. It is very likely illegal. If she pays rent then it is her home which has certain rights that go along with it. A landlord cannot dictate every aspect of a person's life.

The value of 24/7 care in my area is around 12k a month. You have a second caregiver from the sounds of it. Good. Does dad have 24/7 care with two caregivers? Does tenant have freedom to do what she wants always when not on duty? Or is she expected to tend to dad's needs when not on the clock?

Does this previous post refer to the same caregiver? Did you ask/require caregiver to move in with dad in order to protect dad from covid?

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/protecting-senior-from-covid-with-caregiver-457911.htm?orderby=oldest

NO! Sounds like you need to find another caretaker. It would concern me that she thinks its appropriate. She is getting paid to do a job!

A point has been made that you are charging her rent. You may want to call the Labor board in Dads county and see if this is legal. From discussions on this forum, its not legal. From what I understand room and board is provided. They have to make at least minimum wage. Taxes and SS have to be deducted, with SS being matched by employer, and sent to the proper agencies. They only work 40 hrs a week. If more than that they get time and a half for ours worked over 40.

Not saying I am correct, just giving you what I have gotten from discussions on the forum.

That it is her legal residence, yes she can have whomever she wants come visit, unless she signed a contract that says she doesn't get to have guests at her home.

Obviously she should not have guests when she is on the clock but, her off duty time is hers to do with as she pleases.

If you can not trust her to not bring someone that is obviously sick into the house, then you can't trust her to take care of your dad and you should start eviction proceedings.

I do believe that it is illegal to withhold payroll to cover rent. It bypasses taxes and insurances, effecting her long term benefits from SS.

If you want the control to keep everyone but caregivers out of the house then you have to do it correctly and get 3 shifts. Sorry but, when you are fudging things this is the fallout.

An employee provided with room and board is different than a tenant. You say she is a tenant separately.

If it is not in the rental agreement, all you can do is ask.

If the rental agreement is month to month, you can change it in writing with appropriate notice, but what tenant would pay market rent with those kind of restrictions on use?

Here is a link on applying an employee's room and board to the minimum wage requirements. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/direct-care/credit-wages/faq

If she is off the clock she should be able to have a guest in her quarters. Her quarters are her home.

No way...it’s not a party...she is at work. Not to mention even that everyone needs a Covid test & vaccine. Next thing she will bring alcohol & drugs & whatever else. Look for another caregiver. Hugs 🤗

Don't take the chance. One thing leads to another. YOU are in control, not her.

Really need more information about the work/board arrangement.

How many hours a day is she expected to work and does it happen to be the night time hours? If she is paid to work X number hours a day and is paid partly in cash and partly in free room - then there should not be visitors during her work hours. It's the same as you being at work in the office and your friends/partner dropping by for several hours a day. You wouldn't be employed long - you're paid for your 8 hrs a day. If she has the night shift with your dad, is she to be available as he needs things during the night? Or does she have tasks she is supposed to do for an 8 hr shift at night. First, sort out what she is supposed to be doing, how much you pay her with money and room, if those two things determine her pay.

If she gets a room in exchange for just being in the house with him, then she needs to be available to run when he calls. You can't, however, give a person a residence to live in and then exclude them from having company. You can make all people coming/going mask up, glove up and use lots of hand sanitizer. Even this person should be doing that when she is in close contact to dad. Especially if she goes out among other people.

The vaccine is probably NOT going to prevent everyone from getting it. More than likely, in my opinion, it will be like the flu - you may still get it but not a serious event. The doctor is never going to give clearance for people to just come and go. Guests need to respect dad's underlying medical issues and wear a mask when they enter from only God knows where. Keep in mind there are plenty of people in the medical field who do not mask up around others when they aren't at work - anyone can bring it into the home. To protect dad, you need protocol in place and everyone follows it or they don't come in. Include taking a temp - all supplies near an entrance and everyone uses them.

If there is a separate entrance far away from dad's areas, guests could use that and maintain distance from him. You can tell her no friends and then you push her to be away from the house to see friends. Weigh your options. Might be time to hire in=home healthcare people and end the live in arrangement.

I think it's reasonable right now to ask that the caregiver not entertain friends in the house until at least your father gets vaccinated. Or limit her company to her partner only. Telling her no on that won't make the home safer for your father. If he can't see his girlfriend there then she will go to him. Either way there isn't going to be social distancing going on. Also, you could allow friends to come by just not in the house. Is there a garage? Or a basement? Or even outside? This can work too if they wear masks and social distance. As for the other caregiver being a snitch and telling you she had company, well I'd keep my eye on that one too. Do you know where she goes, who she sees, how serious she is about Covid precautions, and how serious every person she's in contact is about Covid precautions? My guess is no. So the whistleblowing caregiver shouldn't score any points from you or get a pat on the back.
I think your best bet is to communicate with her so there isn't any misunderstandings. You trust her enough to live in your father's house and take care of him, so there won't be a problem with the two of you talking this over.

?!?!?!?

I expect it's different - it must be different! - where your dad lives, but here it's the law: no mixing of households. Not 'til... whenever it is. I've got so confused by the timetable for "lockdown easing" that I'm just bumbling on and assuming I will never be allowed to meet anyone socially ever again :(

But your father is (presumably) in an older age group and shielding, neither he nor the caregiver has been vaccinated, and it is OUT OF THE QUESTION that anybody crosses their threshold without a valid reason for being there. Party party party does not constitute even one valid reason.

What's her beef? I'm genuinely curious, I'd love to know what she thinks is unfair about this.

Labor laws and rental laws, I don’t know anything about...but if this person is living in the house as part of a caregiver arrangement, that means the house is a workplace. Workplaces have requirements. Sometimes people may be asked to wear safety glasses, gloves, or steel toed shoes in a work environment. Caregivers in assisted living or a NH are not restricted in their own homes but would not be allowed to have visitors at work.

All this talk about slavery in this contact is nonsense. The employee is an at-will employee and can be fired or discharged for any reason. Employers can set whatever conditions they like. If the employee doesn’t like the rules, they are free to find another job.

Don’t bend on the rules and check to see what rental law says where you live. If there is no written rental agreement then don’t sign one now. Maybe the worker will get mad enough to quit, make a threat, or do something that justifies termination of employment. Then consult a lawyer - there are inexpensive services on line - to be sure any future hiring or rental agreements are properly worded to protect you and your parent.

I have a live in housekeeper. She is allowed to have visitors in her living area during her off hours and on days off. She works an eight hours per day, 5 days a week. She is not allowed to have guests in the family parts of our home or during times we have multiple guests for social occasions. During the time of Covid lockdown she had to follow the Covid restrictions and did not visitors during lockdown. Our lockdown has been over for several weeks and we live in an area low Covid rates and high Covid vaccination coverage.

Our housekeeper has a legal contract that meets federal wage and hour laws and applicable state laws. It illegal to give room and board without appropriate pay. It is considered slavery to not provide pay. She has paid vacation, holidays off, health insurance and other employer paid benefits. She has taxes and Social Security withheld and we pay the workers comp, employer portion of social security, and unemployment insurance.

Our housekeeper is a good employee and we trust her completely. Treating employees well results in good employees and a pleasant home. We have a monthly meeting discuss any issues and to set the schedule if either of us has appointments that need to be accommodated. The

? Isthisreallyreal - All I've seen the OP post is that she has asked the caregiver not to have guests. What can possibly be illegal about that? What else is the family doing?

There is still a pandemic going on with different variants of the virus in multiple states.

My 98 mom has a live in caregiver who was there only because there had to be someone there 24/7. Nurses/aides would go there every day for 8 hours/day and this caregiver would go out every day & see her family, etc. and occasionally have her granddaughter & daughter at the house. She lives in the basement but there is only 1 bathroom, 1 kitchen all upstairs.

Fast forward to Dec31........my mom caught covid from her & almost died. She still hasn’t been able to come home & the woman is still living in her home & entertaining family there.

Until his doctor gives clearance there should be no unnecessary visitors in his home. His safety should be the main concern.

As an FYI ....my brother is the one with DPOA who made all these decisions & not me.

You can offer accommodation as part of a salary and benefits package, tying the apartment into the job; but withholding pay as a rent charge seems an odd way of going about it, and in any case that is indeed a separate issue. The straightforward point is whether it's reasonable to *ask* the caregiver not to have guests for the duration of the Covid risk. How can it be unreasonable, let alone illegal, to ask? The OP hasn't issued any threats or warnings to the caregiver that I can see.

I suppose a lot might depend on the wording... Sunbrooke, when you "sent the email to let her know she can't have guests over" what exactly did you say?

There is also the point that there is another caregiver present, one who was at least annoyed enough to tell the employer about the visitors. It's not unreasonable either to expect your co-workers to behave responsibly, or to ask your employer to protect your wellbeing by making your workplace as Covid-secure as possible.

This whole situation is more than I would want to deal with as a caregiver or a rent paying resident in the house. I would be looking for another job and residence with one legally written contract. This is not a do it yourself project. Get an attorney to draw up the contract following Federal Wage and Hour laws.

No it is not unreasonable. You are protecting your father and her actually. This is the problem that is causing the virus to continue, people are not making the best decisions for themselves and others. The elderly definitely need a caring circle to protect them. As they age, they may not able to make the best decisions for themselves. That is when caring others should step in (family, friends, neighbors, medical team, etc). Don’t feel unsure or allow others make you feel unsure or guilty about making the right choices for your dad. If he is among the high risk, then protect him using all your knowledge He needs you !!!!! Many doesn’t take this virus serious. Don’t let your guard down protecting your dad to please someone else feelings. Continue to be that daughter he needs. He needs you more than ever before. All around us , rules and the norm of how we normally do things is having to be rewritten due to the pandemic. She should understand. Legal advice is always helpful to assist how to go about with carrying out your decision. At the end, it’s all about protecting your dad.

You are not unreasonable, not in the least. Do you really have to deal with this person? Maybe you could find someone else.

Thanks for the previous post Glad.

So, the caregiver was living with her boyfriend and now is live in with you, correct? When she did not live in your home, you contacted her boyfriend about CDC guidlines and tried to dictate his life. You overstepped major boundaries and had no right contacting him.

So, based on those actions, you would not be able to claim a room and board credit or "rent" because CG lodging is for the employer (your) benefit not the employee.

So, you do not want boyfriend to come to dad's house. Does that mean you are okay if she goes back to his apartment during her time off? If not, you are violating alot of labor laws and owe CG quite a bit in back wages.

Sounds like you should consult with an attorney who is well versed in your state's landlord/tenant and labor laws.

I don’t think this is unreasonable at all. In fact I don’t think she should have visitors at all. She is working and if it was in another setting like a nursing home she would not be allowed to have visitors. Just because she is in a private setting does not mean you get to do what you want. Also you do not know the people she is having in and that is not safe for your dad. Just my opinion

Absolutely not unreasonable.

I think once he is vaccinated - if she too can get vaccinated - it may be good for him to have more social stimulation. The partner would have to have been vaccinated too and still practice social distancing. However, I don't like that she is pressuring you. That's maybe a red flag.

This a sticky situation and I would err on the side of protecting your dad. I can't determine, from your comment, how visitors affect your dad. Are they in his area or other parts of the home. Another issue, is how trustworthy the caregiver's visitor's are. As your dad requires this type of care, I would think he is not in a position to take care of himself, let alone protect his belongings. This is a slippery slope, in my opinion. I wouldn't be comfortable with it. Cameras in the home might be an option, so that you could at least have eyes on what's going on.