Side note: I had a pediatrician doc feed hubby via PEG tube. He was working as a nurse because he didn’t want to forget what is like to work with a patient up close.
While it may have been annoying at the moment, I can see why she wouldn't want to do it. It's not medical in nature. Most places are under staffed. Nurses are busy doling out meds and dealing with IVs, etc. Things the CNAs can NOT do.
I've got news for you, againx100. Nobody wants to do it. So if there isn't a CNA around and you're a nurse standing there "supervising" put on a pair of gloves and change a diaper. Maybe try making a bed too, you know just to keep a person grounded and humble.
I think an RN has worked toward a degree in nursing and a CNA has not, that's why there's a difference in their roles. The RN on the floor often also acts as the shift supervisor, and although you might ask management to step in to help in an emergency you would not normally expect it when it's not.
cwillie, Yes, RN licensure for practice requires a great deal of schooling and clinical training; it's a degree of 2-8 yrs. A CNA is 8 weeks of basic training. RN requires a working knowledge in anatomy/physiology, cardiology, pharmacology, urology, psychology, and developmental psychology, neonatology, gerontology, pain mgt, obstetrics, technical aspects of nursing: IVs, pumps, central veinous pressure monitoring, telemetry, etc., etc., to name several. The more critical technical units like CCU, ER, ICU, etc., require more advanced training to that specific area. RNs also learn to make beds that you can bounce a dime on!
Usually it is a CNA but nurses are trained. Is this home care or facility care? Nurses will be present as part of the team but will also be assessing skin care.
It was a transition rehab. Mostly people who had hip replacement for PT before going home. It was one of the few places that would take us. He was considered a two person anything such as transfers and diaper care etc etc. we were fresh from hospital and I was still wrapping my head around the stroke, sleep deprived and learning the so called rules in the medical world. I didn’t understand because the RNs had no problem changing diaper in the hospital. This was in Washington state. (Side note at rehab. There was a retired farmer wife who was CNA and I secretly labeled her one of those Nurse Ratchets. I felt soooo totally lost in the care of hubby. I asked her to teach me diaper change, body rotation, bathing in bed etc etc. she taught me and I felt more in control in a chaotic situation. She cried and hugged hubby when we left. Loved her.)
years later in Kansas hubby back in hospital I had a nurse come in to our room to do something I felt a CNA could do, don’t remember what, he made a point to say if we needed anything let him know and gave us his card. I asked him if was charged nurse? He said no that he was boss over ALL nurses. And I remember never seeing a “CNA” ever at that time, all RNs. This was during Covid. Awesome care.
It is everyone's job if a person is in need. If there isn't an aide available, then there no law saying a nurse can't put on a pair of gloves and get to it.
I really don't care for the elitist attitude that so many RN's have. I've known nurses who would leave a person sitting in their own mess rather than lower themselves by actually providing care. I've known nurses who were cool that helped whenever and wherever they could. These were rare though. I remember one time when I was a student we were in the hospital. There was an old lady crying that she needed a bedpan because she really had to go. There were three RN's in the hallway doing nothing that kept telling her to hold on because an aide was coming. One of the doctors on the floor stopped what he was doing, went and got the bed pan and helped the poor old woman out. After he got done and cleaned everything up, he went up to the three nurses. He asked them how many nurses it takes to give someone a bed pan and when they figure out how many to come and tell him. It all depends on the attitude of the person. Either they want to make sure a patient has the best care or they don't. I've known CNA's who thought they were too good to change a diaper or give a bed pan.
When we first got home from second rehab our speech therapist was alarmed by hubby lung noise. Yes, he has noise but X-rays show clear. This wasn’t a new issue. The therapist didn’t know us or hubby so she reported to her boss who in turned called hubby doc office then I get a call from doc office rescheduling the up and coming apt to be sooner only by a matter of days. All this done without my knowledge. I brought doc office up to speed and told them we would not be changing apt. I understand it was therapist job and was grateful she was looking out for her patient but to leave me out of the loop? I am hubby caregiver, POA, wife. Later I get a call from doc himself asking if he could stop by on his way home. Shocked speechless. I told him well of course you are welcome to come. Doc came, checked out hubby, help me reposition hubby in bed. I was so sad when doc retired.
I will tell you what my daughter, RN, has told me.
She started out in RN mobility. This means she trained as an LPN and worked into her RN. As an LPN trainer she was tested on how to do blood pressure, make a bed, ect. If she tested 5x and did not pass, she was out of the program. My daughter worked as an LPN about 12 years and worked with RNs trained as just RNs only. They are now trained to be in Administration not to be hands on. Thats why there are CNAs and LPNs to do the dirty work. They work with the patients. My daughter worked in NHs and when short on staff, the RNs did help but my daughter said they didn't know how to make a bed properly because they were really not trained. Pretty much "this is how u make a bed" then on to the next thing. My boss an RN with a BS degree now about 80, when we worked 15 yrs ago, said the RNs coming out of school then were not trained like she was. But then, there were no LPNs and CNAs when she trained.
Their are levels of RNs, my daughter has a 2 yr degree so an associates. Then theres the BS degree that takes 4 to 5 yrs to complete. There are higher degrees like a Nurse practioner.
I do agree with Burnt, would it have hurt that RN to help. My daughter would have and has.
When we were still on speaking terms with hubby daughter (expired CNA) she talked about how current CNAs, RNs etc etc that hold current and updated certificates and degrees in current jobs were being required to get higher degrees to be able to keep respected jobs. They had X amount of time to get requirements or lose job. No grandfathering in. I understand keeping up on current knowledge and recertifications but to lose a job? Sad.
When my mother was in a rehab facility, I was visiting her one day and smelled that she needed a diaper change. The RN who was the supervisor of that floor came in when I called and told me that they were short staffed and a couple of CNAs had called in sick. She did not hesitate to change Mom's diaper right then (and it was a messy one!).
Another time, when we had home healthcare after the rehab stint, an RN who came to check on Mom every week or so was there when Mom needed a diaper change. I said I would do it (as usual) but she said she would help and between the two of us we got it done. I think she wanted to get a look at my mom's skin under there as well.
So, I've had a good experience with both RNs and CNAs. They are people I couldn't do without at this time in my life.
I'm curious about why you were changing your DH at all - I never changed mom after she went into care, in fact early on before they knew I had been her caregiver I was even asked to leave the room when she was changed. And in your scenario did the RN not send someone else to assist? If not then that's something I would have a problem with!
My hubby changed my bloody Maxie pad when I had an ablation and tubes tired. I didn’t see what the big deal was changing his diaper when I wanted to be involved in the care of hubby.
I do have to agree with Willie. Why were you trying to change hubby now he was in care. I was so glad when Mom went to an AL that I no longer had to toilet her. When she had an accident, I made the CNA aware of it. Mom was paying 5k a month for the highest care.
Really, you should not be doing this. You could get hurt and the facility cannot be held responsible. You need to allow/let staff do their jobs they are paid to do. This is why ur DH has been placed, to give you a rest.
Hubby was not placed to give me rest. He went from fully functional individual working 50 hr work week, 911 call, to three weeks hospital, to four weeks rehab then to second four weeks rehab then finally home. I also knew hubby was never going to recover and this was a major long term life changing event and I knew there is not always help to be had.
what annoyed me was the 2nd rehab waited till the last day to teach me how to transfer hubby. He was a hard two person transfer. One CNA on the sly let me practice transfer on my own. She and one other person was there as back up. She in truth she was not allowed to do this but she understood the reality of the situation. I lived at rehab with hubby and CNA and I got to know each other so she knew this was a job I could do.
Wrong Answer! I am a RN 28 years and have changed many! Never in any position is it acceptable to say “Not my Job” even if you didn’t know how to do something at least offer to get assistance.
The real question is whether a CNA came in and helped OP, and that wasn't mentioned. It seems OP is more concerned with being bent out of shape than respecting the jobs each employee is paid to do.
You may be the minority. My daughter also would have helped but I think the newer generation of RNs may think they are above that when there are CNAs and LPNs that can do the job.
I've had nurses who would not answer the call button when I've needed to get up to use the bathroom. I'd ring, get them to acknowledge me, and then after 20 minutes, just give up and take myself. Yes, it's a fall risk, but I did what I had to do. I remember poking my head out the door and there was some kind of party going on at the nursing station. Almost all the 'nurse call' lights were on--and they're eating cake and laughing away, oblivious to the job.
This same surgery (back) and the nurses didn't change my bandages and the doc came in to check on me and found that the ice pack had totally melted and the nurses had just slapped a new bandage on the old, wet one. He blew up! He got me up, changed the bandage and stripped the bed, got me set up in the recliner and went and got 2 (very humbled) aides to take care of me.
I could hear him just chewing out the nurses, CNA's, whomever was down there partying. He was a great doc and well respected and I was taken care of after that. I hated making a scene, but sometimes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
It can also backfire: you complain and the doc gets involved, angrily, and now you have RNs and CNA's who don't want to care for you.
I've also had nurses who were complete gems and so wonderful. More of those than the ones who act 'too good' for any job that requires actually touching a patient. We can't paint them all with the same paintbrush.
I too have been subjected to poor, verging on negligent nursing care when in for surgeries and it's miserable to be on the receiving end of it, esp for one, like myself , who was always an extremely attentive RN by nature.
I had intra-cranial surgery and had a bad inflammatory response to the deep sutures that caused a lot of serous drainage from my ear (had a tube placed to allow otherwise minimal post-op drainage). I called with the light but the place was just under-staffed. I got up in the evening and went out to the hall and grabbed my own bed linens, towels and gowns - only after washing my hands and donning gloves, mind you. And I asked a passing LPN for the specific dressings I needed and the plastic tape. I did my own drsg change and stripped the soiled and wet pillow cases and bed linens and did my own bathroom HS cares. I even noted my own intake and output for them. Geez, Louise.
I'm up for hip replacement surgery soon - saw the surgeon of my choosing yesterday - and I'm doing my research before deciding on which of the 3 hospital options to have it done in, my surgeon operates in all 3 and all have the same generation of operating room equipment so I'm basing it on RN to patient ratios, reviews and asking some of my daughter's RN friends. I'm glad to have the options.
Having family at bedside during most of the waking hours is key to survival nowadays.
There are many duties that RN's can do even if not part of their job description. But CNA's cannot perform all duties that are done by RN's. In some hospitals RN's are expected to be available for their duties not doing something else.
@Bridget66, I'm not at all certain where you get your information, but it's false. Nurses cannot, by virtue of licensure, refuse to provide basic cares. Period.
My daughter is and RN with a BSRN degree, working in a major hospital. She will not hesitate to change someone in need whenever help is needed and will quickly say that’s part of her training. We should all be human enough to help those in need, none of us above any job, after all, none of us knows the position we may find ourselves in one day
Thank You!! “We should all be human enough to help those in need, none of us above any job, after all, none of us knows the position we may find ourselves in one day”
As a retired RN, an old school one who never turned down any opportunity to provide cares, be of aid to my patents / clients and their families, and who, having worked critical care, and started as a CNA in my teens, I would strongly recommend that you report this 'RN' to the state board of nursing for failure to provide needed and necessary cares.
It is unconscionable for any healthcare worker to not provide the cares that training and licensure require they do. Get this nurse's name and do an online report. Period.
Also inform the facility Admin/CEO and the DON - Dir. of Nursing - of this untenable response and inform that you will have to transfer your beloved elsewhere if this is truly the level of care that their employees are expected to provide.
Basic human dignity requires cleanliness and personal hygiene is key to dignity and the prevention of complications due to skin breakdown and etc.; I could go on.
Absolutely unacceptable and actual grounds, per the Nurse Practice Act, for licensure disciplinary action from the state and, the facility will initiate its own discipline. If the SNF or AL fails to act on your very valid complaint, please consider moving your husband to a facility with a better standard of care.
On behalf of all the good nurses: I am very sorry that your husband was left in an uncared-for condition and that you were insulted by a nurse whose wages you and yours are, in part, paying.
Do not ever fear retaliation for reporting any instance of poor care. If it's facility wide and endemic to that place, get your husband moved and report the deficiencies to the state oversite agencies: Medicare, State Dept. of Health, and Medicaid, possibly also The Joint Commission, if hospital-affiliated.
When my daughter, a cardiac RN, worked at a large downtown Denver hospital, she changed plenty of soiled briefs, including blow outs and bloody messes that had her wearing a Hazmat suit to deal with.
The only time I was unable to help with hubby diapers when he had CDiff when everything was coming out of everywhere alot. At that time I was beyond exhausted and couldn't even think straight enough to breathe. Mom made me leave for a while.
I know it's not part of the subject but it's on my mind and since this is the place to come for emotional sharing: when I think back on all that happen from the 911 call to today. It's a wonder I'm sane. I am amazed that I question myself today with doubts of strength. We gone from working out of state far from home with no friends or family to help and support emotionally during a life changing tragic event (when doc at hospital came in to tell me that hubby had stroke I started shaking uncontrollably, doc got up and walked out. First person I called two seconds after doc walked out was my step daughter. Told her what happen. She yelled at me for not calling sooner and hung up because she was too emotional to talk. We were in Washington and she was in Florida. I spent $3000 to fly kids in so hubby could have his kids with him. Kids spent the whole time crying how hard this was for them. My aunt did come for the weekend. She was more worried about me writing thank you notes for the get well cards, her own menstruation problems and her daughter dating a girl), packing up auto and apartment to ship back home, flying hubby medi vac home ($352,000.00 plant ticket that I almost signed for), to reopening home house, keeping insurance and mortgage and truck payments paid, digging and finding all the important bank accounts POA paperwork, wrangling the family drama (doc at rehab wanted to do a DNR. I called and asked adult kids on their thoughts and keeping them in the loop. The son sent a text out saying all of us were horrible humans for voting for DNR. he never asked me what my vote was. I refused DNR), and oh yeah dealing with my own broken heart. One day outside the rehab I was crying hysterically and my body would just not move. I didn't want hubby to see me like this and effect him. I just went back to apt packing boxes for the movers. I felt like such a worthless wife.
Many people have posted excellent reasons why they feel like the nurse should have helped you. I feel very much the same.
Of course, the answer is, ‘yes’ the nurse should have helped you or asked someone else to help you.
When I was a fertility patient I had to have blood drawn often.
One day the phlebotomist was out and my doctor said to me that he was going to draw my blood.
My doctor started off by saying, “This may hurt a bit because I haven’t done this since med school. He wasn’t very good at drawing blood at all. He did hurt me. I started to feel like a pin cushion! He apologized for hurting me. I understood that he did the best that he could.
But at least he got the job done. I did ask him when the phlebotomist was coming back!
Another time my daughter’s pediatrician’s nurse was out. She needed a shot. The doctor not only gave her a shot, he gave her a hug after she started crying.
The bottom line is that when a patient is in need of service, it helps when everyone pitches in to meet those needs. Ideally a team works together to serve the patient.
Twice I had to get IVs started. The goal was to put in hands but veins in hands wouldn’t get with the program. IVs ended in lower arms somewhere. Those needles are big and painful. Nurses tried to be very gentle and apologized over and over. One nurse thank me for not complaining. One event it took over four different people before they struck gold. Lol
You asked if I knew many RNs who would change soiled pts and said (unfortunately) that you did not.
My generation of nurses - with the rare exception of exceedingly lazy and worthless ones, ppl I couldn't stand working with - ALWAYS put the pt's first. Back in the day, we didn't have all the PPE that is now the norm, we wore scrubs that we washed at home in bleach and if soiled while working, we'd borrow a change from the surgery suites and return them clean to the soiled bin for hospital washing.
I simply cannot fathom any RN passing the buck with a patient and / or family in need. When investing so much time, money and effort into obtaining a degree, why waste it by not putting it all into practice? I cannot ken an RN ignoring any needs, period.
I've worked in various critical care settings and assigned a small number of pts that we did everything for: bathing, teeth, hair, bed linens, toileting/bedpans, IVs, meds, nail cares, meals, water, catheters, I&O, enemas, central veinous pressure monitoring, telemetry cardiac monitors), to contacting the MD for orders; whatever was needed and, incl teaching to prepare them for the next step down in care and eventual discharge. Full cares is the very best opportunity to fully assess a patient and avert skin breakdown by doing a lotion massage and keenly assessing for edema, listening to breath and heart sounds, BP checks, etc. I loved the 'Golden Slipper' types of pts and liked blowing their demanding minds (it's truly just stress being expressed) by being a step or two ahead and anticipating their every need. Hospice was very much the same.
I cannot abide the people on this thread who are of the opinion that RNs are somehow exempt from basic pt care. It's truly what the job is all about and the most rewarding part of it, always was for me. I love restoring a person's sense of personal dignity and helping out a soiled pt was part of that.
You go Girl!! Im a RT, my job is lungs only but if some one is calling from a room I always check in, and if I CAN help I do. No I can;t lift or repostision, but I can sure move the bedside table,, or give you the call bell, or help the rn turn if they need a hand. Other things as well. I understand time may be a factor,, but we all got into this field to HELP others.
I think one of the biggest downfalls to healthcare is the requiring of way too much education. People have loads of diplomas and certificates but often don't know their own a$$ from a hole in the ground most of the time. Today this is more than ever. Experience and expertise in the field counts for nothing today. It's a real shame too. I've had many a dressing down from an RN who thought they knew it all. One time I remember in particular when I worked for hospice at home. She insisted that the patient get up into the wheelchair everyday and I refused. I told her that when the patient is having a good day, we get up. Not when she isn't though. The RN insisted, so I told her she could come and do it herself. That she pops in twice a week and doesn't spend five minutes a week with the patient. She'd come in, say 'hi', sit at the table and do her charting. I was in that six hours a day, five days a week. I knew the patient a lot better than she did and I was not going to force someone in that much pain at the end of their life to get into a wheelchair everyday to sit in another room. A CNA friend of mine who's a ways older than me was a CNA supervisor in a nursing home for 13 years. This woman knew her field inside and out. The CNA's she was in charge of did their jobs and the residents got good care because of it. Then one day the DON came up to her and told her that a new law came into effect in our state. All CNA's had to be supervised by an RN. So they gave her the choice of going back to being a regular CNA (at beginner's wages) or go. The resident care did not improve. In fact, it declined. Same thing with the hospitals in this state. No more LPN's. Everyone has to be an RN now. The care hasn't improved. They're cutting more corners than ever because a hospital RN here makes twice what an LPN does and God knows they're not going to cut into their profits. This is what it is today. People have so much education that it's washed away all common sense. They think because they have a framed piece of paper on a wall that they are experts in every kind of patient and resident care. They're not,
That's not just in healthcare. It's almost impossible to start at the bottom and work your way up as you learn on the job, and no matter how skilled you will rarely be offered advancement if you don't have that degree/certificate.
If there was a CNA nearby ready to help, it would have been reasonable for the RN to hand over. Let alone anything else, a CNA would make a better job of it - better result, more comfortable for the person - because doing these things well is all a matter of practice. But.
The best residential care manager I know of took in charge a resident that we passed and saw to it that the lady was looked after. The best PT, without comment or pausing the exercise she was helping her patient with, grabbed a wet wipe and cleaned up some soiling that had been overlooked on the lady's thigh. The best GP after examining his patient knelt down and gently put the man's socks and shoes back on.
There should be no job related to the wellbeing of the people you're paid to provide with professional care that you think is beneath you. You should be able to do it *better* than your junior or lower graded co-workers, and you should be prepared to demonstrate it in practice. Once you start thinking you're too good for the basics you've forgotten what you're for and you're actually no good to anyone.
I have had physical therapist and occupational therapist help me change hubby diaper while he was in rehab. When we had home therapist somewhere in the conversation the therapist made the point out that all the therapist on staff have changed diapers and it was just part of the job. I think I mentioned hubby was concern about that area.
She's an RN with a crappy attitude. I am an RN and we can do everything that a CNA can do. If she said exactly what you are saying, "a CNA's job," I would report her to her manager.
I can understand if she was busy doing her RN duties such as giving/hanging meds, doing assessments, documentation, or other duties that only an RN can do and she was delegating the diaper change to the CNA. However, her delivery of that message sucked.
From what I understand, nurses are available for medical care and recovery and don't have time for anything else.too limited staffed. It's the caregivers who do the diaper changes, because it is custodial care
That's not exactly true. Visit a nursing home or memory care some time. You will always see nurses hanging around in the break room or offices and at the nurse's desk area on the floor trying to look "busy". Look closer and you'll find a cellphone in hand with a game or social media on it.
Report her. Her correct answer should have been, I will send the CNA to help you because I have to do xx right now. Ridiculous answer. She was at the level of education/training as a CNA at one time when she started out so clearly she knows how. She now thinks she is 'above' the dirty jobs.
Did she send someone to help? If not, report her response and failure to send the person she thinks should be doing those jobs.
Clearly, you need to report this person. As an RN with an RN daughter, I am ashamed that you would receive this response from a member of our profession. We have a Hospice RN who will do anything we ask of her, including changing a diaper.
My grandmother who had to be at least 65 yrs at the time worked for an hospice as an companion would text me saying that she just changed an 90yr lady’s diaper. Grandmother only has high school level of education but has spent a lifetime involved in helping others in one way or another. Many of her clients ask her by name. Now grandmother is 90 yrs old and it is her turn to be taken care of, soon, grandmother stubborn she may make 100yr.
Healthcare is a for-profit business and therefore needs to operate on efficiencies, just like any other business. It makes no sense to have highly trained, specialized people like RNs do a task that someone without much other training do.
The RN's response in this instance was unprofessional and compassionless, which is a separate issue.
All true. I've worked for a very large well known healthcare system and a small regional hospital - CNA's took care of changes at both. The other issue that comes into play are the various unions. The answer to the OP was thoughtless. She/he should have offered to get someone to help if she wasn't going to do it herself. and since my injury I've been in different facilities. CNA's routinely did the incontinence care or assistance.
I had a pediatrician doc feed hubby via PEG tube. He was working as a nurse because he didn’t want to forget what is like to work with a patient up close.
I'm very glad that you're not a nurse or working in the healthcare field!
Yes, RN licensure for practice requires a great deal of schooling and clinical training; it's a degree of 2-8 yrs. A CNA is 8 weeks of basic training.
RN requires a working knowledge in anatomy/physiology, cardiology, pharmacology, urology, psychology, and developmental psychology, neonatology, gerontology, pain mgt, obstetrics, technical aspects of nursing: IVs, pumps, central veinous pressure monitoring, telemetry, etc., etc., to name several. The more critical technical units like CCU, ER, ICU, etc., require more advanced training to that specific area.
RNs also learn to make beds that you can bounce a dime on!
Can you give more info to the circumstance?
years later in Kansas hubby back in hospital I had a nurse come in to our room to do something I felt a CNA could do, don’t remember what, he made a point to say if we needed anything let him know and gave us his card. I asked him if was charged nurse? He said no that he was boss over ALL nurses. And I remember never seeing a “CNA” ever at that time, all RNs. This was during Covid. Awesome care.
I remember one time when I was a student we were in the hospital. There was an old lady crying that she needed a bedpan because she really had to go. There were three RN's in the hallway doing nothing that kept telling her to hold on because an aide was coming.
One of the doctors on the floor stopped what he was doing, went and got the bed pan and helped the poor old woman out. After he got done and cleaned everything up, he went up to the three nurses. He asked them how many nurses it takes to give someone a bed pan and when they figure out how many to come and tell him. It all depends on the attitude of the person. Either they want to make sure a patient has the best care or they don't. I've known CNA's who thought they were too good to change a diaper or give a bed pan.
Later I get a call from doc himself asking if he could stop by on his way home. Shocked speechless. I told him well of course you are welcome to come. Doc came, checked out hubby, help me reposition hubby in bed. I was so sad when doc retired.
She started out in RN mobility. This means she trained as an LPN and worked into her RN. As an LPN trainer she was tested on how to do blood pressure, make a bed, ect. If she tested 5x and did not pass, she was out of the program. My daughter worked as an LPN about 12 years and worked with RNs trained as just RNs only. They are now trained to be in Administration not to be hands on. Thats why there are CNAs and LPNs to do the dirty work. They work with the patients. My daughter worked in NHs and when short on staff, the RNs did help but my daughter said they didn't know how to make a bed properly because they were really not trained. Pretty much "this is how u make a bed" then on to the next thing. My boss an RN with a BS degree now about 80, when we worked 15 yrs ago, said the RNs coming out of school then were not trained like she was. But then, there were no LPNs and CNAs when she trained.
Their are levels of RNs, my daughter has a 2 yr degree so an associates. Then theres the BS degree that takes 4 to 5 yrs to complete. There are higher degrees like a Nurse practioner.
I do agree with Burnt, would it have hurt that RN to help. My daughter would have and has.
Another time, when we had home healthcare after the rehab stint, an RN who came to check on Mom every week or so was there when Mom needed a diaper change. I said I would do it (as usual) but she said she would help and between the two of us we got it done. I think she wanted to get a look at my mom's skin under there as well.
So, I've had a good experience with both RNs and CNAs. They are people I couldn't do without at this time in my life.
And in your scenario did the RN not send someone else to assist? If not then that's something I would have a problem with!
My hubby changed my bloody Maxie pad when I had an ablation and tubes tired. I didn’t see what the big deal was changing his diaper when I wanted to be involved in the care of hubby.
Really, you should not be doing this. You could get hurt and the facility cannot be held responsible. You need to allow/let staff do their jobs they are paid to do. This is why ur DH has been placed, to give you a rest.
what annoyed me was the 2nd rehab waited till the last day to teach me how to transfer hubby. He was a hard two person transfer. One CNA on the sly let me practice transfer on my own. She and one other person was there as back up. She in truth she was not allowed to do this but she understood the reality of the situation. I lived at rehab with hubby and CNA and I got to know each other so she knew this was a job I could do.
I've had nurses who would not answer the call button when I've needed to get up to use the bathroom. I'd ring, get them to acknowledge me, and then after 20 minutes, just give up and take myself. Yes, it's a fall risk, but I did what I had to do. I remember poking my head out the door and there was some kind of party going on at the nursing station. Almost all the 'nurse call' lights were on--and they're eating cake and laughing away, oblivious to the job.
This same surgery (back) and the nurses didn't change my bandages and the doc came in to check on me and found that the ice pack had totally melted and the nurses had just slapped a new bandage on the old, wet one. He blew up! He got me up, changed the bandage and stripped the bed, got me set up in the recliner and went and got 2 (very humbled) aides to take care of me.
I could hear him just chewing out the nurses, CNA's, whomever was down there partying. He was a great doc and well respected and I was taken care of after that. I hated making a scene, but sometimes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
It can also backfire: you complain and the doc gets involved, angrily, and now you have RNs and CNA's who don't want to care for you.
I've also had nurses who were complete gems and so wonderful. More of those than the ones who act 'too good' for any job that requires actually touching a patient. We can't paint them all with the same paintbrush.
I too have been subjected to poor, verging on negligent nursing care when in for surgeries and it's miserable to be on the receiving end of it, esp for one, like myself , who was always an extremely attentive RN by nature.
I had intra-cranial surgery and had a bad inflammatory response to the deep sutures that caused a lot of serous drainage from my ear (had a tube placed to allow otherwise minimal post-op drainage). I called with the light but the place was just under-staffed. I got up in the evening and went out to the hall and grabbed my own bed linens, towels and gowns - only after washing my hands and donning gloves, mind you. And I asked a passing LPN for the specific dressings I needed and the plastic tape. I did my own drsg change and stripped the soiled and wet pillow cases and bed linens and did my own bathroom HS cares. I even noted my own intake and output for them. Geez, Louise.
I'm up for hip replacement surgery soon - saw the surgeon of my choosing yesterday - and I'm doing my research before deciding on which of the 3 hospital options to have it done in, my surgeon operates in all 3 and all have the same generation of operating room equipment so I'm basing it on RN to patient ratios, reviews and asking some of my daughter's RN friends. I'm glad to have the options.
Having family at bedside during most of the waking hours is key to survival nowadays.
I'm not at all certain where you get your information, but it's false.
Nurses cannot, by virtue of licensure, refuse to provide basic cares. Period.
“We should all be human enough to help those in need, none of us above any job, after all, none of us knows the position we may find ourselves in one day”
As a retired RN, an old school one who never turned down any opportunity to provide cares, be of aid to my patents / clients and their families, and who, having worked critical care, and started as a CNA in my teens, I would strongly recommend that you report this 'RN' to the state board of nursing for failure to provide needed and necessary cares.
It is unconscionable for any healthcare worker to not provide the cares that training and licensure require they do. Get this nurse's name and do an online report. Period.
Also inform the facility Admin/CEO and the DON - Dir. of Nursing - of this untenable response and inform that you will have to transfer your beloved elsewhere if this is truly the level of care that their employees are expected to provide.
Basic human dignity requires cleanliness and personal hygiene is key to dignity and the prevention of complications due to skin breakdown and etc.; I could go on.
Absolutely unacceptable and actual grounds, per the Nurse Practice Act, for licensure disciplinary action from the state and, the facility will initiate its own discipline. If the SNF or AL fails to act on your very valid complaint, please consider moving your husband to a facility with a better standard of care.
On behalf of all the good nurses: I am very sorry that your husband was left in an uncared-for condition and that you were insulted by a nurse whose wages you and yours are, in part, paying.
Do not ever fear retaliation for reporting any instance of poor care. If it's facility wide and endemic to that place, get your husband moved and report the deficiencies to the state oversite agencies: Medicare, State Dept. of Health, and Medicaid, possibly also The Joint Commission, if hospital-affiliated.
Wishing you and yours the best moving forward.
I know it's not part of the subject but it's on my mind and since this is the place to come for emotional sharing: when I think back on all that happen from the 911 call to today. It's a wonder I'm sane. I am amazed that I question myself today with doubts of strength. We gone from working out of state far from home with no friends or family to help and support emotionally during a life changing tragic event (when doc at hospital came in to tell me that hubby had stroke I started shaking uncontrollably, doc got up and walked out. First person I called two seconds after doc walked out was my step daughter. Told her what happen. She yelled at me for not calling sooner and hung up because she was too emotional to talk. We were in Washington and she was in Florida. I spent $3000 to fly kids in so hubby could have his kids with him. Kids spent the whole time crying how hard this was for them. My aunt did come for the weekend. She was more worried about me writing thank you notes for the get well cards, her own menstruation problems and her daughter dating a girl), packing up auto and apartment to ship back home, flying hubby medi vac home ($352,000.00 plant ticket that I almost signed for), to reopening home house, keeping insurance and mortgage and truck payments paid, digging and finding all the important bank accounts POA paperwork, wrangling the family drama (doc at rehab wanted to do a DNR. I called and asked adult kids on their thoughts and keeping them in the loop. The son sent a text out saying all of us were horrible humans for voting for DNR. he never asked me what my vote was. I refused DNR), and oh yeah dealing with my own broken heart. One day outside the rehab I was crying hysterically and my body would just not move. I didn't want hubby to see me like this and effect him. I just went back to apt packing boxes for the movers. I felt like such a worthless wife.
Of course, the answer is, ‘yes’ the nurse should have helped you or asked someone else to help you.
When I was a fertility patient I had to have blood drawn often.
One day the phlebotomist was out and my doctor said to me that he was going to draw my blood.
My doctor started off by saying, “This may hurt a bit because I haven’t done this since med school. He wasn’t very good at drawing blood at all. He did hurt me. I started to feel like a pin cushion! He apologized for hurting me. I understood that he did the best that he could.
But at least he got the job done. I did ask him when the phlebotomist was coming back!
Another time my daughter’s pediatrician’s nurse was out. She needed a shot. The doctor not only gave her a shot, he gave her a hug after she started crying.
The bottom line is that when a patient is in need of service, it helps when everyone pitches in to meet those needs. Ideally a team works together to serve the patient.
You asked if I knew many RNs who would change soiled pts and said (unfortunately) that you did not.
My generation of nurses - with the rare exception of exceedingly lazy and worthless ones, ppl I couldn't stand working with - ALWAYS put the pt's first. Back in the day, we didn't have all the PPE that is now the norm, we wore scrubs that we washed at home in bleach and if soiled while working, we'd borrow a change from the surgery suites and return them clean to the soiled bin for hospital washing.
I simply cannot fathom any RN passing the buck with a patient and / or family in need. When investing so much time, money and effort into obtaining a degree, why waste it by not putting it all into practice? I cannot ken an RN ignoring any needs, period.
I've worked in various critical care settings and assigned a small number of pts that we did everything for: bathing, teeth, hair, bed linens, toileting/bedpans, IVs, meds, nail cares, meals, water, catheters, I&O, enemas, central veinous pressure monitoring, telemetry cardiac monitors), to contacting the MD for orders; whatever was needed and, incl teaching to prepare them for the next step down in care and eventual discharge. Full cares is the very best opportunity to fully assess a patient and avert skin breakdown by doing a lotion massage and keenly assessing for edema, listening to breath and heart sounds, BP checks, etc. I loved the 'Golden Slipper' types of pts and liked blowing their demanding minds (it's truly just stress being expressed) by being a step or two ahead and anticipating their every need. Hospice was very much the same.
I cannot abide the people on this thread who are of the opinion that RNs are somehow exempt from basic pt care. It's truly what the job is all about and the most rewarding part of it, always was for me. I love restoring a person's sense of personal dignity and helping out a soiled pt was part of that.
I think one of the biggest downfalls to healthcare is the requiring of way too much education. People have loads of diplomas and certificates but often don't know their own a$$ from a hole in the ground most of the time. Today this is more than ever. Experience and expertise in the field counts for nothing today. It's a real shame too.
I've had many a dressing down from an RN who thought they knew it all. One time I remember in particular when I worked for hospice at home. She insisted that the patient get up into the wheelchair everyday and I refused. I told her that when the patient is having a good day, we get up. Not when she isn't though. The RN insisted, so I told her she could come and do it herself. That she pops in twice a week and doesn't spend five minutes a week with the patient. She'd come in, say 'hi', sit at the table and do her charting. I was in that six hours a day, five days a week. I knew the patient a lot better than she did and I was not going to force someone in that much pain at the end of their life to get into a wheelchair everyday to sit in another room.
A CNA friend of mine who's a ways older than me was a CNA supervisor in a nursing home for 13 years. This woman knew her field inside and out. The CNA's she was in charge of did their jobs and the residents got good care because of it.
Then one day the DON came up to her and told her that a new law came into effect in our state. All CNA's had to be supervised by an RN. So they gave her the choice of going back to being a regular CNA (at beginner's wages) or go. The resident care did not improve. In fact, it declined.
Same thing with the hospitals in this state. No more LPN's. Everyone has to be an RN now. The care hasn't improved. They're cutting more corners than ever because a hospital RN here makes twice what an LPN does and God knows they're not going to cut into their profits. This is what it is today. People have so much education that it's washed away all common sense. They think because they have a framed piece of paper on a wall that they are experts in every kind of patient and resident care. They're not,
The best residential care manager I know of took in charge a resident that we passed and saw to it that the lady was looked after. The best PT, without comment or pausing the exercise she was helping her patient with, grabbed a wet wipe and cleaned up some soiling that had been overlooked on the lady's thigh. The best GP after examining his patient knelt down and gently put the man's socks and shoes back on.
There should be no job related to the wellbeing of the people you're paid to provide with professional care that you think is beneath you. You should be able to do it *better* than your junior or lower graded co-workers, and you should be prepared to demonstrate it in practice. Once you start thinking you're too good for the basics you've forgotten what you're for and you're actually no good to anyone.
I can understand if she was busy doing her RN duties such as giving/hanging meds, doing assessments, documentation, or other duties that only an RN can do and she was delegating the diaper change to the CNA. However, her delivery of that message sucked.
That's not exactly true. Visit a nursing home or memory care some time. You will always see nurses hanging around in the break room or offices and at the nurse's desk area on the floor trying to look "busy". Look closer and you'll find a cellphone in hand with a game or social media on it.
Did she send someone to help? If not, report her response and failure to send the person she thinks should be doing those jobs.
We have a Hospice RN who will do anything we ask of her, including changing a diaper.
The RN's response in this instance was unprofessional and compassionless, which is a separate issue.