How can I put mom away when God says to "Honor thy Mother and thy Father"?

First, you're making an invalid assumption, i.e., that "putting [your] mother away" is not equivalent to "honoring" her.

Second, I interpret honoring someone as including respect and support. It seems that your extended family are providing support. There's no indication, however, of any details, but for purposes of response I'm going to assume that that support is with love and care by family members.

Third, it's not unusual for "professionals" (and in fact, who ARE these "professionals" - medical ones?) to recommend facility placement. It's easy for them in their professions to believe that multiple medical personnel in a facility can provide more appropriate care than a family. And that's true in many cases.

Fourth, your mother may reach a state in which she needs more medical support than can be provided by the family. What do you feel would be best for her at that point? That's a decision that needs to be made by whoever may be her primary caregiver, medically and legally, and in your case the other participating family members.

HOWEVER, that decision needs to be guided by the medical needs as identified by medical professionals.

Fifth, if your mother at some point needs more care than can be provided in the extended family environment, your obligation in honoring her would I think be best met by providing the care she needs at that time. To deprive her of that would in fact be dishonoring her.

So your interpretation of the religious commandment really turns on how you view "honor" which in the case of an elderly person can evolve and change as the person slides into older age and perhaps more complicated medical problems.

I agree with GA, to honour does not necessarily mean you must always obey or sacrifice everything for them, rather you should respectfully consider their needs and opinions when making choices that involve them.

Another assumption you seem to be making is that all long term care/assistive living residents are wallowing in misery and despair. Not true! I think assistive living can be the ideal environment for some people, providing entertainment, companionship with peers and medical oversight all in one package. Long term care can be more problematic as those residents are often suffering from advanced dementia or severe physical disability. Often when our loved ones reach that stage the family can no longer provide appropriate care, it doesn't mean they are being abandoned, just that the role of daily caregiver/companion has changed to one of management and support.

Sometimes honoring a parent is allowing them (assuming a reasonable mental state) to spend their last days with family, even though the care might not be the same. My MIL asked to go to her youngest son's house, where the smog was worse than in my area, because she did not want to live any longer. (We had tried a facility, and she hated to be fussed over by strangers. That lasted a week.) The hospice nurse taught my SIL what she needed, and she had two weeks of peace and slipped away in early morning. As it turned out, I was the one with her. No regrets from any of us.

I looked after my bed bound incontinent hemiplegic demented mother at home until she died because that is where she wanted to be and because I had freely made that commitment to her. If God approves, I'm delighted. But that doesn't mean I accept that God would have looked on my visiting my mother regularly in a high quality, well-staffed nursing home as a serious breach of the fifth commandment.

I'm not sure what point your post was meant to make. Are people in fact leaning on you to turf your mother out of her family home? If so, who are they and what is their reasoning? If not, I'm very happy for you and glad that your mother is so well supported by her large and loving family.

I'm not sure not why you used the phrase, Put mom away. That sounds negative and isn't very accurate if you are referring to placement in a long term care facility. As much as they may be criticized, long care facilities have come a long way and offer much more than ever before in care and activities.

I can't imagine any doctor who would recommend placing a senior who has no health issues, no mobility issues and no mental impairment in a long term care facility, when they are already living in a home with family. I don't get that. What would be the reason?

Are you saying you just don't want the senior in your home, but you acquiesce out of of guilt due to a Bible verse? Maybe I'm just not following it.

To me, it's great that the seniors live with family as long as they are content and physically able. If they aren't, then other options must be explored. It's not out of some disrespect or meanness, but necessity. We honor our parents with our attitude and conduct everyday. And when we place them in a safe environment where they can get the care they need, that's also honoring them, IMO.

Bodega, I think I understand if you're coming from a Christian perspective. It was a lot in your post to discern. If you can take care of her, then great. I think be careful not to be too legalistic in your thinking should she need to go into assisted living or home of some sort eventually. We honor our parents when we love and care for them the best we can, but we are humans too, and sometimes may have to make decisions that are uncomfortable. It doesn't mean we are not honoring them or the Lord. I think it's just the opposite.

You come across as someone who never put anyone away, let alone your parent. You would be loving and honoring her just like you are now. Please take into account you are not failing if there comes a time when a change may be needed. Her safety and care ultimately is the best way to honor her and God ultimately.

SunnyGirl makes a good point. I remember when I first read your post I began thinking of unpacking and putting clothes and luggage away, or putting groceries away after a shopping trip, not of finding an appropriate facility for a loved one.

How long has it been since you've seen some of the facilities? Some of them are like 4 star hotels. A friend found one for her father that had more amenities than some of the estate homes in the area (no hot tubs though).

Sunrise Assisted Living, in our area, has Victorian style buildings, complete with fretwork. There's a resident pet - I don't remember if it's a cat or dog, or both. The meals are gourmet, though, which would be too upscale for our family. We like good homestyle food, not Martha Stewart type meals.

One of the SNFs I found for my father after his 2 hip fractures was configured like a lodge - massive fireplace with lounge area, several conversation areas, and lots more. It was absolutely beautiful.

The chef was just that - he had formerly been the chef at a 4 star upscale restaurant. The meals were a la carte - not just one lump of packaged and warmed up potatoes and a lump of vegetables. It was a 100 mile drive round trip for me but I enjoyed going there because it was nicer than my own home, and I didn't even have to do any cleaning!

If you are in CA, contact the Area Agency on Aging and ask if they're have a fall expo. In my area, they're held every fall, alternating locations between the east and west side of the metropolitan area. You'll find plenty of facilities at various step up levels; get their literature, find some that interest you and go for a tour.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I also suggest that we all, including me, stop using the phrase "put her away". It has such a negative connotation.

If a medical professional told me (and they did) that mom should no longer live in her isolated suburban house alone, I would ask them why (not good for her cognitive skills, fall danger, needs more socialization).

If I was told by a medical professional (and I was) that mom needed supervision and medical monitoring 24 hours a day and hand over hand assistance with ADLS, I would ask why (dementia, aphasia, chf, limited mobility). And then I would make a plan for that LEVEL of care. If someone tells you that your dependent parent NEEDS something, you honor them by getting it for them. What it looks like depends very much on the elder's financial situation, the family's housing and work situations and temperments. I don't think that in home or in facility care are either of them inherently better or worse. I grew up with a grandparent her living in our already cramped home.

Wasn't finished. She took no joy, it seemed in seeing us grow up and she drained my mom's attention and energy.

And just for the record, I find the term "put away" enormously offensive.

Honoring means keeping them safe, healthy, happy -- if that is what you and your family are providing at home -- Wonderful! If its not, then honoring and respecting mom means providing the best nurturing environment you can -- at your place or in other residential care where she can be supported with skilled care and have lots of activity and interaction. There are many things that you can do besides "put away" that may mean getting in-home skilled care for mom. You have lots of choices. Everyone's situation is different.

To Garden Artist: I have check and called many facilities and the most recent one I called was a Catholic Assisted Living Home with amenities that would make your jaw drop. With Persian rugs, chandeliers hanging everywhere, no foul odor, a cafeteria with food that would make your mouth water, and a lovely lovely dining room for the elderly to eat and socialize. Bingo, Mass, occasional trips to town, activities, you name it. However, the Director blatantly told me that if my mother could now walk into a walk-in show by herself unassisted, then she could not be accepted as a resident of their facility. You mean for $3300.00 a month a volunteer or CNA can't climb a set of stairs or take an elevator and help an old person into a shower?????????????? I was appalled at her remark. What about those with mild Dementia....my friend's mother was a resident at this facility and 3/4 of the time my friend had to be there physically to take care of her after work and on weekends. This is ridiculous. I think they just don't give a damn. We all know that only families are the ones who truly take care of their loved ones in assisted living, nursing homes or what have you. I have check online and read many many review of gorgeous homes, facilities and found that many families were appalled that they would visit their loved one who was found in an empty cafeteria with food and drool running down their loved ones face and just totally in a stupor. What good is it to have a 5 star hotel when you have a 0 star nursing staff. This is my point...let your loved one stay with a family member until they can no longer think anymore and have no control over their bowels or have a debilitating disease. Even then, you are likely to find your loved one lying in a cesspool of feces and slime. Face it, this society doesn't care about its' elderly...they only want to charge you 3-6 thousand a month and then that person is left at the mercy of no one but God. Lord help us all...I would rather die in my own apartment in my own pool of slime then give someone my life's earnings and be treated like garbage. Check out some of these so-called 5 star facilities and then read the actual review from real live persons who put their parent there and then post me back when you see the results.

"We all know that only families are the ones who truly take care of their loved ones in assisted living, nursing homes or what have you" I always begin to lose interest in what someone is saying or writing when I hear these broad, generalized statements, assuming facts not in evidence.

"we all know" is an especially nonresponsive introduction. No one in fact knows what "we" all know, nor is your conclusion factual.

However, I'm not going to waste time debating you beyond pointing out that assumptive error.

There are other statements in that last post that are debatable, but it's not worth the effort to point out the factually assumptive errors.

And by the way, I have checked out some facilities locally, used some as placements and been satisfied with the results. One facility even exceeded my expectations.

If you want to believe that you're providing better care as well as cling to what I consider biased views of facility living, that's certainly your choice.

I do wish you and your family well, though.

The appropriate term used by social workers in my area is community, they do not use the word facility because of the negative connotations. So, if you think about a community it is a much more pleasant picture. The ladies of The Red Hat Society having monthly luncheons, the bridge club, the talks of trips that are usually presented by volunteers to say nothing of the comraderie that develops between residents.

If you had a bad experience with the Catholic Serices community, try another and another and another until you find one that seems appropriate. Looking at one is not a fair representation of what is available.

It is honoring your parent to find the level of care and community that is appropriate when recommended by medical or other professionals in elder care. This is not putting her away, on a shelf to only be taken down when convenient for you. It is a different level of care than you have been providing for sure. But, your family will still be needed to advocate for her and visit with her, take her out for a drive, a meal at a favorite restaurant, or just a walk around the grounds.

Bogeta, I am confused. Your profile says your mom has Alzheimer's/dementia, yet here it is not an issue. When you were posting a year ago as Glonorth you were having issues with Mom's care. Was that another person? If your mom has dementia, it will continue to progress making home care exceedingly more difficult.

BBAy, I understand where you are coming from with your assessment of independent/assistive living. Many of the luxurious 5 star places are geared toward the active, independent 70 plus crowd and are quick to evict those whose needs increase. The way I see it they are exclusive resorts for the wealthy since most long term care insurance I have explored doesn't cover that level of care and they can run from $3K to $10k a month. My relative works in a place that made a point of sending residents to hospital if they thought death was imminent rather than letting them pass in their 'home', they didn't want to pay for extra nursing!
That said, I believe there are better, more compassionate places out there, many who post on this site have found them! It's too bad they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Bodega - I read your first post as a thinly veiled diatribe against those of us who would place our parents in assisted living or nursing homes rather than taking care of them at home as you and your family do. Your second post confirmed that. We're not all Christians here, we don't all agree or presume to know what God (if one exists) thinks about parent care, and we don't need your judgmental language or your moral censure.

Honoring mother and father means accepting them for who they are. It is an often quoted Commandment and, in my opinion, used most frequently to guilt someone into doing something s/he does not want to do. And honoring mother and father is not limited to biological parents. It extends to any person who has nurtured us, cared for us, protected us like a mother or father. To get at the heart of what honoring our mothers and fathers means we need to go a little deeper and discover that we are being told to honor people who deserve respect. If you cannot provide ensure for the proper care and safety of an aging parent then bringing in professional help or moving the parent into a professional-care environment would be the honorable thing to do.

Carla, well said. I first thought of the post as seeking justification for doing what the OP wanted to do in the first place, while using a religious dictum as that justification.

Now that Glad has pointed out this is really GloNorth, I understand Bodega Bay's position and realize that further "advice" is a waste of time.

What on earth is your purpose here, BodegaBayCA65? It sounds like you are getting to care for your mother the way you want to. Good. Is you post just to criticize those of us who "put away" our parents in care centers? What an ugly term! You "put away" the holiday decorations you won't need again until next year. We placed our mother where she would get the care she needs. We certainly never thought of it as putting her away.

Are you here to brag that you are honoring your mother better than those of us who have parents in care centers? If so, please go get your strokes somewhere else. Giving you a medal is not our purpose here.

Ah, reading your past plans to move out, and complaints that no family would help, and how nothing you do is good enough for mother while your brother is the golden child, I can think of another reason for your post at this time.

Are you trying to justify you lack of action in resolving your own problems by saying, in effect, "God makes me do"?

You don't need to justify it, at least not to us. You can make any decisions you want to about your life, including not being employed and instead devoting your life to the care of your mother. If that satisfies you, I am glad for you. Probably most of us are glad for you, if you are happy with your own decisions.

But please, try to express your happiness without sounding like a criticism of everyone else.

If you really want some advice or actual discussion, try again, by posing an question we can respond to, without feeling we need to defend ourselves first.

This is Bodega Bay's, a/k/a GloNorth's post on Oct. 28, 2014:

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/mom-not-asking-brother-for-his-help-too-174102.htm


This is from one of FF's responses:

"glornorth59, good heavens, months ago you were ready to move out of your Mom's house, have your son and his fiancée take care of your Mom, and you rebuild your life by having your own apartment and finding employment. Changes aren't going to happen unless you make those changes".

A lot seems to have changed since then, especially in the approach of Bodega Bay.

And here I originally thought this was a new poster, not an existing one with a new name, posting with a completely different (sanctimonious?) approach.

(thanks to GladI'mHere for this astute bit of detective work.)

glornorth59, good heavens, months ago you were ready to move out of your Mom's house, have your son and his fiancée take care of your Mom, and you rebuild your life by having your own apartment and finding employment. Changes aren't going to happen unless you make those changes

Whoops. Sorry for the duplicate quote. And of course there's no editing function to correct mistakes.

Oh dear. I wonder who else has been giving Glornorth advice? Do I hear the bat squeak of fundamentalism in the background?

Still, I suppose one can either accept the situation one is in, or one can work to change it; and if she has chosen the former option - albeit possibly under a questionable new influence - then as long as it makes her happy that's fine by me.

Healthy belief in the fundamental doctrines would be fine, but it's legalism I'm hearing roaring. I had the most unfortunate experience this summer of chaperoning teens with a legalistic couple with the same arguments. Honoring is doing what's best for elders while maintaining your own separate identity in the Body. Dishonoring is making an Idol out of the elder.

Glo, I'm glad that you've been able to re-brand your former unhappy state with your life, with your abusive son and demented mother, into a multi generational household in which your mom takes joy in watching her grandchild grow. That's good news for you. I hope you remain at peace in this situation.

All I can say, glo, is "get real"!

Glo, or Bodega, as long as "several of you" are sharing the care of your mother and she's not " suffering from debilitating dementia"(which is what your profile states--I don't know of a sort of dementia that's not debilitating), keeping "ornery mom" at home should be a burden that you can all share and bear.

However, if she HAS dementia, you should note that it is progressive. The burden will become heavier and it may no longer be safe to have her around young children.

It would be nice if ALL of us, elderly and young, could always have what we want in life. Life, unfortunately, often has other plans.

Bodega, speaking for myself, most of the time I think my mother's life would be better if she were in assisted living. She lives at her home with me. She stays in her pajamas all day long and watches TV. It isn't much of a way to live the last years of life on earth. Would it be better for her if she had to get up and dressed and was around people? Could I really be doing her a disservice by letting her stay at home?

One thing I realize is that my mother wants to stay at home so she won't have to do things on other people's schedule. She would have to wake up in time to get her meals and to get dressed before breakfast. It could be that it would be better for her if she did. Because I am here caring for her in her home, she doesn't have to go to facility. She refuses it. That is okay with me as long as she can stay home. It is up to her and if I am able to do the things she needs. But I definitely am not providing a higher level of care than she would get in a community.

I crunched the numbers a while back about how much it would cost for my mother to go to assisted living. It would cost her about $500 more a month than she receives from SS and pensions right now. It was doable if she needed it or wanted it. We would just need to take some of her money out of savings. The costs actually seem high at first glance until you start looking at the numbers. There is an apartment, utilities, meals, transportation, social interaction, and some personal assistance for around $3000 a month. This really isn't bad. Higher levels of care, of course, would cost more. Even when someone is in AL, family can still help and add to the parent's life.

Then there are nursing facilities, which differ greatly. Most people don't go into these until their final months on earth, so we don't expect anyone to be up playing basketball and square dancing. It is what it is. The final days are not pretty days and good staff have to know when they are doing a good enough job keeping people clean and cared for. Knowing that elders can suffer from incontinence and poop problems, it is amazing that the staff can keep everything as clean as they do. Still... we can't look at NHs and say AL is like that.

So, I can only say that IL and AL may be superior to family care in many instances. NHs are a different matter, since people there are less capable. I know life can still be good, though. It mostly depends on the person and how sick they are. Our loved ones continue to be persons when they are older, though sometimes we start talking about them like they are objects being pushed here and there. (I'd like to see someone make my mother do something she didn't want to. She is definitely still a person and not an object!)

The only compassionate answer was from cwillie and I thank you for understanding. The others here all seem to know one another and their answers were quite hateful. I thought this was a safe place to vent but evidently I was wrong. You don't know what is in my heart and mind and maybe I would wish mom would comply with leaving her house and going to a facility but to now avail. Further, It has only been my experience with "A place for Mom" that many of these facilities boast of having full amenities but when I read many reviews I felt saddened because of the lack of compassion by the staff or the fact that many of these facilities were understaffed.. I am saddened because all of you come across as judgmental and defensive. No more posts from me ever on this site due to lack of empathy and ill mannered responses given to someone who is hurting just as much as the other one here.

Bodega, you asked a QUESTION. Some folks answered it, myself included, with sincerity, thinking that you wanted an answer.

If you want to have a DISCUSSION, post under discussion. I for one don't "know" anyone on this board any more than I "know" you.

I told you how my family came to decide that mom needed to be in Independent Living and later in a Nursing Facility. I am not being hateful and I doubt anyone else was doing so. I won't burden you with answers to your questions or discussions any longer, since you don't seem to want answers, only validation of the position that you've apparently been forced into. Best of luck.