POA has denied me access to my mother's room at the nursing center. Can this be legal?

OhJude - I was thinking troll as well just this morning. What possible reason would an actual person have to continually keep this up? Clearly it wasn't for advice. Maybe validation - but that wasn't happening and hadn't been for a while. I'm thinking not s troll doing it for fun but more of a catfish type of situation.

ohjude ,
the bottom line is , what does the patient want . i put up with a lot of man hatin BS when i was caring for my terminal dementia mother . only a good female friend straightened it out for me . she said , " your mom doesnt WANT to go into a GD nursing home " . nobody listens to the patient . they all seem to have their own petty ( job related ) motives ..

Actually the more I read this the more I am beginning to think troll. but just in case I am wrong ...

Mom lover one of your posts says:
Mum Has no other medical conditions other than the stroke and osteoporosis
Others indicate the following

So she has osteoporosis
She had a stroke 10 years ago that left her wheelchair bound
She can just about stand cant walk
She has arthritis
She has mild dementia or forgetfulness
She has senile dementia though

In September you said
the doctor is saying that her senile dementia is progressing rapidly
her mobility diminishes more everyday

Yet yesterday you said went from mental institution to mental institution just to stay alive and LET herself be diagnosed as a manic depressive on lithium.

Now you are clearly delusional when you say she has no other medical conditions other than the stroke and osteoporosis for your mother has multiple problems and for the most part ones that will get worse over time.

Then and probably the most insulting thing I found from your rants is this:

Mothering and nurturing does not take a PhD or we would not exist. And just who do you think monitors care? Who do you think makes the diagnoses of mental illness? Who do you think determines the level of PT required. You are so damned far up yourself that you cannot see that the problem person in all of this is you.

You even use the term senile dementia which is so outdated as to be almost archaic. If you don't even know what type of dementia (s) your mother has how in hells name are you going to look after her. You won't know what to expect, what signs to look for, how it will progress and definitely won't know how to handle it.

I am dropping the post as this person is just a joke and clearly not a suitable carer for her mother.

I think Momlover had court today. She said sis had to respond by the 26th.

Momlover123, I see from your profile you state that you are a public school teacher. How would you handle a student who doesn't pay any attention to what you are trying to teach him/her? Would you keep repeating yourself a dozen times over hoping what you said would sink in, or would you stand back and analyze the situation, and try a different approach?

not Michigan, ILLINOIS. oops

Momlover, I just visited the Chicago Catholic Charities website. The state budget impasse has decimated their services. They have had no payment from Michigan since 7/1/15. All they will do is put you on a waiting list. Sorry.

OK at the risk of being in the cross hairs.... again. Your mother needs full time care she is a risk to her own safety. Caregiving to someone who has bipolar and dementia (however mild) is a highly skilled job and not to be taken lightly. She is clearly not steady on her feet and so the home needs to be fitted out for her needs.

You will need 24/7 care because you are NOT TRAINED to care for her something that is patently obvious to all of us on here.`don't think for one moment that support services of that nature will come free of charge - they won't. Simple business sense says no - it is not a cost effective move and if everyone wanted home, round the clock care the USA would be bankrupt within a year.

If you are absolutely serious about having her home, then you need to consider this: What do I need to do to the house to make it safe. Are the bathrooms on the same floor as the living and sleeping accommodation because if not it is not a long term plan. Are there grab rails so that she can get around easily? Does she have a walker? How will you address incontinence needs if and when the need arises. How will you get her to interact with people of her own age? How will you get out to do shopping etc. How will you get her to the medical appointments she will need to attend. How many trained professional carers do you think it will take to meet her needs now and in the future? Do you have a mattress you can steam clean? Are your floor carpeted or lino? Who is going to deep clean them? Do you have a lockable cupboard for her meds? Do you know how to deal with drugs you no longer need? Do you have PPE? Do you have commodes? how are you going to facilitate bathing

There is just so much you are not seeming to recognise needs addressing and quite frankly if a court awarded you the right to bring your Mum home - bearing in mind she will be telling you one thing and others something entirely different for that is the nature with dementia, then I for one would be absolutely horrified at a system which is missing some links somewhere.

Because 20 hours a day of careging, 5 days a week will cost you $2500. Per week. Does mom have 10,000 a month? That's if she doesnt need full time care and isn't a 2 person transfer. That's why.

I appreciate everyone's advice. But, Why is it too late for us to live together as family with supportive services? Why do you focus on only my caregiving and you have no advice for required supportive services. Catholic Charities offers free caregiving services plus my Mom has SSA/SSI available. My Mom wants to come home and I am her only family member able or willing to give her a family home.

BTW ML I have had loved ones in NH and not been allowed to see them. My adored adopted "Nanna" had family who banned me from seeing her because they resented our relationship.
I didn't create a fuss, I made little cards, crocheted a shawl, made tiny pigs (Nanna loved pigs), anything that told Nanna I was thinking of her, I loved her and did not add to the distress.
I would have broken down the doors and stolen her away if I could. But that would not have helped anyone. She was in a safe place and her family believed in what they were doing. Sadly she died, my last memory of her though is not in a hospital bed. It is of us at our regular Friday morning tea. Best china cup, saucer and plate. Naughty biscuits and "girly" chatter. Grandpa Bernie snoring in his armchair.

Jude, Jean & Babalou Many thanks.
ML ~ Thank you so much for your suggestions on how to fill my time without my SO. Oddly enough no matter what I do, I still have a part of me that grieves for him and frankly right now I am embracing that. I know there will come a day when I will stop grieving because that is the day I will stop remembering. I will fight to put off that day for as long as I can.
I'm sorry that you had a difficult childhood and I am able to appreciate that you are literally quite desperate to "be there for your Mum." What saddens and indeed frightens me about your determination is your 100% blinkered attitude. You return to this forum and ask for help, you're given it, over and over by people with varying degrees of knowledge and experience. Yet each and every one of us is wrong!
From what you have written about your Mother I see a lady who has had some horrible experiences and has done a great job of bringing up her children. That lady is now very much sicker, frailer and damaged than you can face. That to I understand, it is incredibly hard to see a loved one in a place where we are helpless to care for them. But if we are to do right by that loved one we must for their sakes listen to those who have the experience and knowledge.
I truly know you love your Mum passionately and desperately want to nurse her to the end (though I doubt you'll accept there will be an end), and that ML is the scary bit. If you continue this path you will actually become the most damaging/abusive person in your Mum's life and for HER sake you will be denied access to her.
Please listen to others, they are trying so hard to help you stay in your Mum's life ~ but safely.

Thank you Carol, it's not easy being that open and honest ~
But anything that helps with this vile disease is worth it in my book.
That said your words made my speaking out worthwhile. Lucy

Jeannegibbs I do not sneak foods to my Mom. This purée diet just started and I had not been told that . The GAL is not used in appellate court.

Momlover123, if you get denied again on partial guardianship of your mother by the courts, will you accept it as a final ruling? I hope you are emotionally prepared for a ruling against your petition. Judges usual have goods reasons for denying guardianship to a family member. I admire your love and compassion for your mom, but are you financially and physicality capable to care for her in your home? Do you have a solid plan to present in court to show you can become a responsible enough guardian? I doubt a higher court will grant you guardianship without a thorough plan.

K

LM, I wonder if this part of Lucy's wonderful post sunk in?

"He's not yet in NH BUT ML when that time comes I will do my damndest to be as polite, helpful and as cheerful as I can be to NH staff. I will be grateful for the fact that they wipe his butt and not me. Not because I wouldn't, but because it keeps his dignity. I'll be glad they are there for him, because it means that the time I spend with him is quality time. Not me frazzled & exhausted because I've been caring 24/7."

Her loved on is not in a nursing home yet, but she understands that the time will probably come when that is best for him. And when it comes, she intends to do what we are all urging you to do.

Spend quality time with your mother, where she is getting good care and you can focus on your relationship and love her.

Momlover123, You have a lot of compassion, but you really don't have a clue about what mentally ill (bipolar) persons with dementia and mobility issues need. I am sorry that your family was so dysfunctional. I am sorry that your mother's illness is so distressful to you.

But I will repeat my suggestions one more time. (Nothing you have disclosed so far has changed my mind.)

1) Focus on a goal you could actually attain: Get permission to see your mother. (Don't try to sneak foods in to her. Don't get her agitated about going home. Don't go behind the GAL's back and try to send in a notary for your mother to sign legal documents. Don't do anything to make you unwelcome in the NH. Mend fences with staff. Build bridges.)
2) When you have the authorization to do so, spend lots of time with your mother, making her days where she is as comfortable and happy as they can be.

Your story is so confusing I'm confused: When was the last time you were with your mother? What is your current status regarding visiting her?

Thank you, Lucy.

Lucy, thank you for your deeply moving post.

Dear LucyCW,
May God bless you for returning and thank God you have not had to deal with an NH with a family member holding the POA over your head. I wish I had your experience with caring...it's God sent. I had a damaging childhood too but it wasn't at the hands of my Mom. It was had the hands of my father and siblings with and without love. My Mom always comforted and loved me immensely and the rest of the family seemed to dislike that as they grew in their dominion roles within the household but still cared for me but did some treacherous things too in a society of "wars" and strife and quick to devalue humanity. My Dad divorced my Mom and remarried when I was 13 in about '75, with no higher education and being a homemaker, my Mom was a beautiful and caring woman left penniless and homeless after raising five children. None of the five children (ranging from ages 13- 25 as oldest brother was severely injured in a body cast after Vietnam) could care for Mom in 1975 because we were children or didn't have the means, so for about ten years my Mom went from mental institution to mental institution just to stay alive and let herself be diagnosed as a manic depressive on lithium. After all the dysfunction in the family It seemed a though only my sister and I wanted to take my mother in but we were too young and couldn't support her.Finally, in 1985 my sister became stable enough to take her in and she took her in for 30 years (I lived with Mom from 1995-2006 during the loss of my sister's first son in 2000 as her home was severely dilapidating and she refused to get a full-time job after the divorce from her first husband in about 1993 and remarried in about 1999, Along with caring for Mom she also raised three girls during the course of Mom's caregiving while I lived with my Mom from about 1995-2006 and raised my son on the first floor of her building. Mom had SSA/SSI and in-home care benefits but my sister still refused to get a part-time job that would assist will the renovation of the dilapidation of her building we were living in after her divorce from her first husband).. LucyCW truly find something you love to do that will take your mind off of your loved one if you are not happy immediately convert to your happy hobby. that you and others enjoy; such as, sewing, baking, blending foods your loved one and others enjoy, jarring preserves, playing game or instrument, build more caregiver social networks, create your own caregiver blog or website, etc. Please understand that there are different stages of dementia and my Mom is only at the state of confusion and forgetfulness. Her doctor has verified that she only needs help with tedious medical and financial decisions. My Mom begs to come home with me as I have said so many times. She even scratched my hand softly one day begging to come home. I beg her to be patient and tell her the judges have to decide. You keep mentioning progressive disease and dementia, but neither of these stop a mother from living with her daughter. May God bless you LucyCW and may your spirit and energy carry on to future generations.

Lucy it doesn't matter how long it took you to write that - I can't imagine the pain you feel in your heart right now but you have my utter admiration for writing such a candid post - all power to you xxx

Lucy, Thank you for such a brave, brave letter. This is something I need to know. I wish you well from the bottom of my heart. Carol

Momlover ~ I dropped out of trying to be helpful last year when you clearly did not want advice but approval for your thoughts & actions, but I find myself here again.
OK, you refer to other patients being able to eat one week but being tube fed the next. Now I'm making a really big assumption here that You do not have access to their medical records? Ok, you are assuming neglect? abuse? from your witnessing a change in feeding?
My widowed BIL on Mon ate solid food cheese and apple with no problem, Tues-Thur could not swallow more than 0.05 teaspoon of liquid at a time. Are we neglecting/abusing him? No! He has a progressive disease which is going to get worse. His swallow mechanism is breaking down and he will need tube feeding. Does this break my heart? Absolutely, but it is the nature of his illness and if I truly care more about him than me. Then I hold back my misery and I put 100% commitment into making time with him the most fun we can have.
He's not yet in NH BUT ML when that time comes I will do my damndest to be as polite, helpful and as cheerful as I can be to NH staff. I will be grateful for the fact that they wipe his butt and not me. Not because I wouldn't, but because it keeps his dignity. I'll be glad they are there for him, because it means that the time I spend with him is quality time. Not me frazzled & exhausted because I've been caring 24/7.
As previously said so succinctly by Jeanne Gibbs you seem to fail to grasp that there are progressive illnesses and sadly your Mum has one.
Since I last responded to you on here I have myself been diagnosed with Dementia with Lewy Bodies.
As a carer I knew Dementia was a horrible thief of a disease, now on the other side as a sufferer too I get a second perspective on this most malicious of illnesses. Please, please ML try to hear folk on this forum.
You say you're Mum is unhappy and a non person when you are not there, how do you know if you are not there?
If as I suspect you are talking about watching your Mum without her awareness of your presence? Then let me tell you honestly, if ANY of the people who care about me where to see me when I am unaware they'd probably reach the same conclusion you have about your Mum. When I'm with folk I try to be positive, happy, the Lucy they know/love.
When I think I'm alone, then yes I'm often sad. I miss my SO so desperately, I wish so much he was here with me and yet I'm so glad he died before he got to see me unravelling before his eyes. I'm grieving for the person I was, and the person I'll now never get to be. I'm trying to make sense of a life, a world that no longer makes complete sense to me. As I write this I'm glad I'm alone because I am sobbing as I acknowledge to myself the honesty in these words. For anyone to see me without me knowing it's like sneaking a look at me naked!
She asks to come home with you. A lot of the time I'm fortunate enough to be fairly with it, and yet I'll tell people I want to go to the Isle of Skye and I do.
I had a literally torturous childhood at the hands of my biological parents. At age 10 I met 2 lovely individuals who fell in love and married each other. They also (astoundingly to me then and now) fell in love with a very damaged little girl of 10. They wanted to adopt me but weren't allowed. So they stayed in touch with me the rest of my life. They celebrated my achievements, were there for my heartbreaks and have loved me unconditionally no matter. These people were/are the closest I ever had to parents and I want to go home to them.
BUT ~ at that moment I'm asking to go home 50 yrs ago. To a time when I was safe with them, a child who was being protected for the first time in my life. My brain is not accepting now, when they are frail 70+ and 80+ I don't want to go home in now.
I also find that I ask to do things I feel people around me want. In my case it's certain shops or out to eat. Is it possible your Mum knows you want her to come home and she's trying to please you?
It's taken me 2 days to write this so I'm sorry if it's out of sync with other postings but it was written to try to help.

Your mother's competency to make choices is one thing - to make decisions is totally another. A guardian ad litem is appointed by the court to represent the interests (in this case) incompetent persons in legal actions. Therefore regardless of what you may think feel or want the courts have decided and determined your mother is not competent to make decisions - that's what I base my comment on.

What your mother wants is one thing if you said do you want to stay her or come home she might well choose to come home. Thats is choice. Decision is when she can rationalise why she wants to come home and what the scenario could be IF she came home and the pitfalls she may encounter and what the outcome of those would be. Is she going to have round the clock professional care that does not involve you? If so then we are talking serious money here 168 hours a week of it. You will need at least 5 carers to cover that - more when you take into account sickness and holidays. Does your mother have a clue as to how much that will cost her? Does she know what changes will have to happen for her to come home. Can she rationalise any of that?

This is not about your desire to grant your mum's wishes it is purely about her physical well being and with a GAL in place one has to say she does not have capacity

Typo sorry. Ohjude how do you know...

Oh judge hoe do you know the ruling will not change? My mother's competency is relevant and she will have professional care and she is place with quality of life. You are not speaking rationally IMO.

You don't know anything about knowledge I have and the aptitude I have to acquire it. You are out of line with your unfounded accusations.

Mom lover you are a case in point: when people who want to care are just not fit for purpose. You cannot care for your Mum your knowledge is too weak and you are a danger to her physical well being and that I am afraid rules out her coming home. learn to live with the ruling because it isn't going to change any time this side of hell freezing over

Freqflyer Homecare will be provided by trained professionals.