POA has denied me access to my mother's room at the nursing center. Can this be legal?

at risk here, not exactly sure what is meant by "probationary period" and my dad wasn't already in a nursing home but when he was in the hospital and they were wanting him to go to nursing home but grandson, that he'd already had move in with him to take care of him, didn't want that but because of some things that were going on in the hospital, somewhat related to them wanting him to go to nursing home somewhat also related to this whole communication or lack thereof thing, they were also concerned and reluctant to let him go back home to him but I guess a difference was they couldn't just keep him in the hospital; they were going to have to let him go somewhere or have him/make him, not really sure exactly how all that works, just know what they were pushing for, but anyway, having said that, in the end they did agree to/with, if you will, a "probationary period" of 30 days to allow him to go back home with grandson - they said, not sure I'd heard of this before, if I understand/ood right, that the option for nursing home would still stand that long - had always heard they had to be in the hospital for 3 days to be able to go but I guess they can also go home and be out for 30 and still be able to go without having to go back in the hospital for another 3, which he was in there for longer than that anyway; now he was also sent home with home health as well, so his condition could be evaluated, so wasn't just left up to grandson to make the decision and also an appointment was made with what was supposed to be his main - not his primary - but his specialist who had actually already been treating his main condition - something I'm not really seeing in this situation - I didn't think she had a special medical condition - have I missed that?

DadsAdvocate02 I thank God that you empathized with me and understood a different point of view as we all want a chance to provide caregiving to our loved ones even if circumstances are against us. I don't want to feel forgotten when I die, so I want my mother to feel her family never forgot her in the worst of time and space, and beyond.

LucyCW my Mom is not on the dementia floor. She's on the skills floor to improve her walking. Her doctor said she has confusion and forgetfulness . The dementia is not severe. She's not designated to a dementia floor at the nursing center.

Thank you for your explanation and I hope that your Father's transition between this life and beyond is as easy as possible.
The lady with the POA situation is also refusing to recognise dementia which sadly is a whole other ball game that many of us on this thread are caught up in.
I wish all of you involved in this journey with your Father peace and the sense of assurance that comes from knowing however hard, the right decisions were made, the right things done.
BTW I absolutely agree with you that delicate as it is this is a conversation that needs to be had, Though not just with parents, this is a journey every living person will make at some time. As none of us have a pre booked ticket we don't know when it will be, so have this talk asap and get it over and done with.

I have the highest regards for everyone’s opinions and feedback. Some of you took a good deal of time and effort to express your views. So, thank you. My comments were not intended to lay guilt on anyone but my hope was that my opening statement would provoke folks to take a pause when those that do not understand the family dynamics make their suggestions that you need to institutionalize your loved ones because you cannot handle it. There are ways to ensure their safety and care at home depending on the circumstances and whether or not you have the means and resources to do so. To restate, we had the benefit of knowing our fathers wishes ahead of time. Be sure that you have those delicate conversations with your parents. It helps. And yes, my sister and I have been very fortunate that we had the Dad we did. I truly understand that not everyone had that kind of upbringing. Also, I should have put more emphasis on our particular circumstances. Our stepmother has POA for Dad. My Dads decision to appoint her made sense and my sister and I had/have no objections. There can only be one person with POA. Their can only be one chief at at time. I am #2 POA. My father wanted it that way as he also said that he trusted his daughters with his matters too. But we all had an amicable relationship and for legal reasons, bill management ect…The wife is the logical decision. But there have been allot of opinions and a few disagreements on the direction of dads treatment. However, out of respect for him, my sister and I have stood down and are not rocking the boat. What’s done is done. I won’t go down that rabbit hole. But we are not being prevented from seeing him at this time. However, let’s just say that even under the best of circumstances decision points can be extremely challenging when the fate of a loved one is on the table. Which is again why communication is key and why it’s so very important to understand your parents wishes ahead of time and even have them in writing if possible. For us it’s been a challenge to keep the ship on an even keel, while being kind to one another and staying the course with regards to many things that my father was very clear with us on all on. Thankfully, we had a family meeting when he was diagnosed. I don’t wish to water down the message here. But felt it important to offer some added information which is partially why I empathize with the women on the subject of POA. For the benefit of everyone, I want to restate that our situation is short term. Dad was given 12 months at the most and his treatment was halted 6 months in as he was unresponsive to all avenues. So, from a home health perspective, it’s now just a matter of ensuring that his day to day needs are taken care of and that he’s taking his meds for HBP, thyroid, blood thinner and steroid to minimize tumor swelling. We, along with the home health care professionals/hospice will continue to assess his condition and determine when/if he needs additional medications to keep him comfortable. Again, I apologize for not being very clear on this point, "our circumstances are short term". Again, good luck and god bless to all of you that you can find peace your decisions and balance in your own wellbeing.

I do have some sympathy for DadsAdvocate's point about received opinion being quite heavily slanted in favour of handing over care in the latter stages, though no sympathy at all with anything that sounds like an accusation of giving up levelled at caregivers.

But while I agree that most end of life and palliative care can be managed at home, I disagree it's necessarily a good idea, or that love and commitment are enough on their own to do that job safely. A caregiver taking it on also needs to understand clearly what the loved one's care and nursing needs are, and be able to meet them reliably. Enthusiasm on its own could easily lead to families biting off more they can chew, and that could lead to terrible stress and guilt on the part of the caregivers, and serious risk to the loved one.

Wow! How insulting, DadsAdvocate02. I want you to know that I have not relinquished my responsibility to my mother by sticking her in a nursing home. My sisters and I placed her in a care center appropriate to the level of care she needed. She is thriving! She is doing so much better than she was in the home of one of her daughters. She'd only been there a few months when her hip broke and she fell. The hospital recommended hospice care. That was provided in the NH. After a few months she had improved so much she was taken off the hospice program. She goes to all kinds of activities. She eats well. She is well taken care of. And we visit and advocate for her. We have NOT abandoned her.

Taking care of someone at home can work wonderfully. I cared for my husband through his ten years of dementia and he died in our bedroom. That was the right choice (I hope) for that situation. A professional setting is the right choice for our mother.

I'm glad that what you are doing works well for your situation. But how dare you make pronouncements about what everyone should do? How dare you suggest that using a care center is relinquishing responsibility? You know very little about the situations and circumstances of the people in this thread. Please keep your pronouncements to yourself.

God has a special place in heaven for caregivers.😇

Dad's Advocate, first let me assure you that my response to you posting is not at all about putting your "comments under fire." Though to be honest you're possibly (in my view) aggressive opening remarks "I must say that I'm sickened about how readily some in this thread are relinquishing their responsibility to their elder parents by sticking then in a nursing home." would suggest to me that you were/are seeking such an outcome.
I've been with this thread for some months now and I can not think of 1 single instance on this thread where your comments are justified.

"My father is terminally ill with no hope of recovery. He was very clear about his feelings throughout his life and right after his diagnosis in May to he never wanted to go to a nursing home."
I am sorry to read that your Father is terminally ill and I'm sure the number of people who would prefer to end their days in professional homes/care rather than their own homes is extremely small.

"This women clearly loves her mother and let's face it, siblings will be siblings. Emotions run high as we see our time with our loved ones shrinking day by day."
You are correct in this statement, this lady does love her Mother very much indeed and sometimes such high emotion and deep need are not healthy for the potential caregiver or the intended recipient.
If you were to go back through this thread you would see that sadly this was & is not simply a case of "siblings being siblings."

"But I feel the same obligation this women does to her mother to my Dad and as he did for my sister and I."
I sincerely hope not! This ladies "obligation" to her Mum has not always been of the healthiest for her or her Mum, hence the comments by Jude and myself.

"He would never have put us in the hands of strangers. Let's face it, no one loves and knows our family like we do."
Indeed they do not, and I'm truly glad for you that you grew up in such a family. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have this kind of experience as a child or an adult.

"If her mother is not in need of significant medical intervention and her daughter gains the means to lift her mother to bath her, dress her, feed her, get her to bed and give her PT. What is it that a care center is going to provide above that?"
In this case the Mother does have a strong need for significant medical intervention. The daughter posting has found it extremely difficult to accept a deterioration in her Mother's health. The things you suggest with regard to daily welfare are not all that is needed and sadly these things are not things that the daughter could just learn to do. With her Mother's increasing deterioration physically and mentally and the daughters blinkered attitude to both an unhealthy outcome could definitely be on the cards.

"Not to diminish the nursing industry but my my dad has the minute by minute care in his own home that he would never get in a home. It's simply a matter of patient to caregiver ratio. There are 2 of us here at all times. He's checked on constantly including BP and oxygen. Also, we have home health in 2x a week to validate his condition and offer inputs or suggestions. I really think it's just a matter of rolling up your sleeves and committing to care for your parents like they cared for you."

How fortunate for you and your Father that this is so. I would ask you to bear in mind though that not all family relationships are this healthy and the scenario is not always possible even where the family relationships are positive.
Your comments in such cases would add to the guilt and feeling of having let down a loved one which is entirely uncalled for.

"But remember when the medical industry suggests that you can't handle it and it's best for your parent to be institutionalized, they have their own agenda. A. They need to feel validated and B. someone's making money."

C they signed the Hippocratic Oath "do know harm" and can recognise that in some circumstances for the sake of ALL parties in the family professional intervention is needed.

" Follow your heart. Good luck and God bless to everyone doing the best that they can in difficult circumstances."

I would say follow your heart when it does not cause danger/potential danger to you or your cared for.
Being a carer at a slight distance or hands on are always difficult circumstances and I advocate being kind to yourself and those around you too.

DadsAdvocate02, It is admirable that you are caring for your parent. However, it would be better to be cautious about admonishing other caregivers to "commit to care for your parents like they cared for you." Taking that to its logical conclusion, in some cases the caretaker children would physically or verbally abuse the parents ("just caring for Mom and Dad the way they cared for us"). Some parents were never loving or even passable caretakers.

ML, we know you do but there are good ways, not so good ways and really bad ways.
Unlike others newer to this thread You are well aware of the long term support from people on this forum who have had and continue to have the best interests of you and your Mum in our advice to you.
That is not say that newer readers do not have the same criteria, simply that this goes a long way back and the history of this thread is vital to full understanding of all the ramifications and understanding why some of what has/is being written may seem harsh.
Some of us have been together on this journey for several months and as such a kind of shorthand has developed as well as a mutual respect and understanding.
I'm not trying to shut anyone else out simply explaining what has been happening to bring about the kind of responses that are here.

I want to stick with my mother until the end too.

Not under fire Dads Advocate not at all but there is a history you are perhaps not aware of and that is why with care and thought we have said that for the moment we, who are not professionals, have said that we think the best place is in the nursing home - that's not necessarily a forever but at the moment.

Being a carer is a difficult road as I am sure you know. Doing it single handed is more difficult, doing it single handed without sibling consent and indeed contra to sibling request is going to be trebly difficult and if one isn't prepared to listen and act accordingly there , to coin a phrase, will be trouble ahead.

I don't think any of us have 'stuck' our LOs in care homes because we are relinquishing responsibility. I do think that being a good caregiver is not a simple task at all - would that it were ....it is about understanding the multitudinous issues that surround patient illness and patient care, contamination and cross infection issues, medication issues, legal issues, record keeping, recognising wellness, understanding limitations when manually handling people who are elderly and/or inform knowing when you have reached your limit and it is time for professionals to take over. Imagine being the only caregiver , as I am, doing it alone, not being able to leave the house, sleeping on a sofa for years, being denigrated for everything (because that is the nature of Mums dementia) dealing with her dependency personality disorder as well as mixed dementia, heart issues and diverticulosis, and trust me I have it easy compared to some. Disimpacting bowels because no-one professional will come and do it, preparing meals that are thrown at you, struggling to get any help at all ever and fighting for every inch you do get

It feels after a while like you are totally isolated and withdrawn from society BECAUSE YOU ARE. I shop online I do everything on line because I have to.

I have to beg plead and finally threaten before i can get respite and I NEED that time to recharge my batteries so that I can once more care for Mum at home properly and effectively. I know there may come a time when I can do no more - hopefully not, but I am aware of it, and I think being a good caregiver is about being strong enough physically, financially, emotionally, spiritually, mentally to actually do the job and to know when to say I need someone to take over now please.

If you aren't all of those things then you put your loved one at risk and none of us want that. So not under fire at all but an explanation of why I feel the way I do.

I might add that y mother was never a carer for either of her parents or indeed her husband so I actually feel I am doing quite well comparatively speaking

I must say that I'm sickened about how readily some in this thread are relinquishing their responsibility to their elder parents by sticking then in a nursing home. My father is terminally ill with no hope of recovery. He was very clear about his feelings throughout his life and right after his diagnosis in May to he never wanted to go to a nursing home. This women clearly loves her mother and let's face it, siblings will be siblings. Emotions run high as we see our time with our loved ones shrinking day by day. But I feel the same obligation this women does to her mother to my Dad and as he did for my sister and I. He would never have put us in the hands of strangers. Let's face it, no one loves and knows our family like we do. If her mother is not in need of significant medical intervention and her daughter gains the means to lift her mother to bath her, dress her, feed her, get her to bed and give her PT. What is it that a care center is going to provide above that? Not to diminish the nursing industry but my my dad has the minute by minute care in his own home that he would never get in a home. It's simply a matter of patient to caregiver ratio. There are 2 of us here at all times. He's checked on constantly including BP and oxygen. Also, we have home health in 2x a week to validate his condition and offer inputs or suggestions. I really think it's just a matter of rolling up your sleeves and committing to care for your parents like they cared for you. I'm certain that my comments will come under fire. But remember when the medical industry suggests that you can't handle it and it's best for your parent to be institutionalized, they have their own agenda. A. They need to feel validated and B. someone's making money. Follow your heart. Good luck and God bless to everyone doing the best that they can in difficult circumstances.

^^^To your" attorney, not "tongue", lol.
~Spellchecker is my worst "enema."- 😜

What is a one on one geriatric care plan. ...and how does SSA/SSI pay for it? Isnt SSA/SSI just social security?

Momlover, unless your sister had guardianship of your mom, she shouldn't be able to keep you from seeing your mom in the nursing home. I see that there's more involved after reading your additional posts, however. I see that you are trying to get guardianship, so this is bery much similar to a child custody case where false accusations are regurgitated in case after case. I'd try to make peace with the NH staff, especially the case worker, because they may be called as a witness. Keep in mind that your sister has probably filled their head with nonsense--but they've seen and heard it all. Don't take anything out on them. (If your mother is being mistreated, talk tongue attorney about the best way to handle this.) I hope everything works out for the best for you and your mom! (((hugs)))

Jude, glad you're still here :~) I thought I was a lone voice in the wilderness.
Hope things are easier, being UK they are not going to be better :~( but hoping for a chink in the NHS armour.
Thinking of you

Hi ML, Thank you for your words, I am writing my story and I do have someone interested in printing it but I'm not sure I'll get that far. It is after all my life and as off now I choose who to share with and how much.
To your Mum, I agree with Jude - NO! You have been making progress in listening but you still have a way to go. You are still not positively interacting with the people who care for your Mum in a physical sense. I have noted that those areas of my post you completely ignore.
It's good that you're not being as paranoid, but I agree with Jude, you are not ready or safe to have any further dealings with your Mum than present.
If anyone was misguided enough to give you even 5 minutes custody you would not relinquish the custody or your Mum. This is absolutely not in her best interests and that is what you want, HER best interests.

Actually Momlover no I can't agree on that.....not at the moment. From your previous writing, you are too emotional at the moment, and too unwilling to listen to what you are being told to handle the care your Mum needs and right now she is in the best place even if you don't agree.

You have also to consider that moving elderly people is incredibly stressful for them and puts them instantly into a high risk category. We are moving and Mum is going into respite to LIMIT the stress for her (and for me)

My concern would be that once you got her home YOU wouldn't let her go if you weren't coping and I don't think you would acknowledge that you weren't coping.

It is of course not us who have to say yes. But if I were a social worker, before I could agree any plan that involved her coming home to you for care I would want to see that you were emotionally stable and right now, from the way you haven't listened to advice in the recent past I actually don't think that YOU are ready yet.

Get yourself sorted first. Then think about what care would actually mean for you. I can see that you say your son is grown - perhaps it is time to find out who you are first and I mean that positively.

Caregivers thank you for all your advice. Do you agree that I should at least try to get my Mom a one on one geriatric care plan with her SSA/SSI just for the sake of family. My son is grown and I'd love to care for the only natural mother I will ever have. Please don't think I am disregarding your advice. Can you at least agree on a probationary period?

Sorry "Caitlyn." I have to correct before sending.

Lucy Carilyn you should find an author to write your bio as mankind doesn't usually endure your hardships and remains so caring of others . You are a precious gem to say the least .

Hi, I hope you'll understand when I say that I live by not judging people's situations in a comparative way. I have been to hell and back (sadly more than once) but I can not compare that to another person's journey and say one was better or worse. A terrible journey is that, for the person living it.
I do thank you for your respect for my survival ability, though honestly it's not really a matter of choice on my part, this is the hand I've been dealt the only choice I see is to do my best and get through it as well as I can harming no one one the way. Or to be a horrible person uncaring of others and that is not my nature.
I do believe after my last epistle, that you do have a better understanding of what I've gone through, and I hope you know that I offer my advice because I truly want to do what I can to help you in your situation.
I know that you want the very best for your Mum, and I totally understand that the situation you are all in is far from the best scenario.
That said, and please believe I have had to witness a dearly loved relative go through very similar to what you've described, I still would say that much as you love your Mum and I have not one shred of doubt on that score you absolutely would be wrong to try to take care of her at home.
So what can you do? First keep your cool. Be as nice as you possibly can to the staff, you can see what difficult conditions they are under, make seeing you a joy not another hardship. This is a) because they deserve it. b) they are far more likely to be your allies in the future if you have not alienated them.
Have a look in the area that your Mum is in, is there an NH that is nicer than this one that perhaps she could move to?
It really isn't going to happen for her to live with you, but that doesn't mean that you can't try to find something nicer.
Build bridges with your sister, baby steps. Don't go in demanding a move, acknowledge that she too loves your Mum. She doesn't have to act the way you do to love her.
If your sister understands that you are not wanting to fight her or put Mum in danger and remember 99.9% of people who wrote here believed that although you love your Mum very much you would have endangered her had you got what you wanted. Not deliberately, no one thought that, simply because you would not accept anything you were told that didn't agree with you.
You've come a long way since then and I hope that you are proud of your achievements to date.
Keep trying to be a joy to your Mum, make your visits exciting and positive experiences. I'm sure the staff are trying their best to shield your Mum and other people from what is happening so please don't blame them when they can't.
On a personal level I've got a difficult few days ahead of me, so please forgive me if it takes longer than usual for me to respond. I do care and I do want to help where I can, but I have to deal with some very hard things here.
Take care, know you and Mum are in my thoughts even as I tackle what is to come. Lucy Caitlyn

LucyCW I know you've been through much worse and I respect your survival ability. Please forgive me if society has led you to believe I don't understand your trails and tribulations you've conquered. I'm just searching for advice without Power of Attorney.

Peeled is peed.

Don is son.

LucyCW the nursing center is so understaffed with no security that a patient fell out of his chair, a patient's don cursed out the CNA and threatened her she'd threatened him saying her brother would be waiting for him when he left, a patient pulled out his penis and peeled on the floor with two CNAs sitting at the same table and they were still figuring out what CNA belonged to what patient. Lord help me out of this ... Mom's getting stronger in her PT, OT, and speech therapy though. That's a happier note.

Your welcome :~) re picture see private message

LucyCW thank you for your advice. I am waiting for my pic sweetheart❤️