POA has denied me access to my mother's room at the nursing center. Can this be legal?

Not under fire Dads Advocate not at all but there is a history you are perhaps not aware of and that is why with care and thought we have said that for the moment we, who are not professionals, have said that we think the best place is in the nursing home - that's not necessarily a forever but at the moment.

Being a carer is a difficult road as I am sure you know. Doing it single handed is more difficult, doing it single handed without sibling consent and indeed contra to sibling request is going to be trebly difficult and if one isn't prepared to listen and act accordingly there , to coin a phrase, will be trouble ahead.

I don't think any of us have 'stuck' our LOs in care homes because we are relinquishing responsibility. I do think that being a good caregiver is not a simple task at all - would that it were ....it is about understanding the multitudinous issues that surround patient illness and patient care, contamination and cross infection issues, medication issues, legal issues, record keeping, recognising wellness, understanding limitations when manually handling people who are elderly and/or inform knowing when you have reached your limit and it is time for professionals to take over. Imagine being the only caregiver , as I am, doing it alone, not being able to leave the house, sleeping on a sofa for years, being denigrated for everything (because that is the nature of Mums dementia) dealing with her dependency personality disorder as well as mixed dementia, heart issues and diverticulosis, and trust me I have it easy compared to some. Disimpacting bowels because no-one professional will come and do it, preparing meals that are thrown at you, struggling to get any help at all ever and fighting for every inch you do get

It feels after a while like you are totally isolated and withdrawn from society BECAUSE YOU ARE. I shop online I do everything on line because I have to.

I have to beg plead and finally threaten before i can get respite and I NEED that time to recharge my batteries so that I can once more care for Mum at home properly and effectively. I know there may come a time when I can do no more - hopefully not, but I am aware of it, and I think being a good caregiver is about being strong enough physically, financially, emotionally, spiritually, mentally to actually do the job and to know when to say I need someone to take over now please.

If you aren't all of those things then you put your loved one at risk and none of us want that. So not under fire at all but an explanation of why I feel the way I do.

I might add that y mother was never a carer for either of her parents or indeed her husband so I actually feel I am doing quite well comparatively speaking

I want to stick with my mother until the end too.

ML, we know you do but there are good ways, not so good ways and really bad ways.
Unlike others newer to this thread You are well aware of the long term support from people on this forum who have had and continue to have the best interests of you and your Mum in our advice to you.
That is not say that newer readers do not have the same criteria, simply that this goes a long way back and the history of this thread is vital to full understanding of all the ramifications and understanding why some of what has/is being written may seem harsh.
Some of us have been together on this journey for several months and as such a kind of shorthand has developed as well as a mutual respect and understanding.
I'm not trying to shut anyone else out simply explaining what has been happening to bring about the kind of responses that are here.

DadsAdvocate02, It is admirable that you are caring for your parent. However, it would be better to be cautious about admonishing other caregivers to "commit to care for your parents like they cared for you." Taking that to its logical conclusion, in some cases the caretaker children would physically or verbally abuse the parents ("just caring for Mom and Dad the way they cared for us"). Some parents were never loving or even passable caretakers.

Dad's Advocate, first let me assure you that my response to you posting is not at all about putting your "comments under fire." Though to be honest you're possibly (in my view) aggressive opening remarks "I must say that I'm sickened about how readily some in this thread are relinquishing their responsibility to their elder parents by sticking then in a nursing home." would suggest to me that you were/are seeking such an outcome.
I've been with this thread for some months now and I can not think of 1 single instance on this thread where your comments are justified.

"My father is terminally ill with no hope of recovery. He was very clear about his feelings throughout his life and right after his diagnosis in May to he never wanted to go to a nursing home."
I am sorry to read that your Father is terminally ill and I'm sure the number of people who would prefer to end their days in professional homes/care rather than their own homes is extremely small.

"This women clearly loves her mother and let's face it, siblings will be siblings. Emotions run high as we see our time with our loved ones shrinking day by day."
You are correct in this statement, this lady does love her Mother very much indeed and sometimes such high emotion and deep need are not healthy for the potential caregiver or the intended recipient.
If you were to go back through this thread you would see that sadly this was & is not simply a case of "siblings being siblings."

"But I feel the same obligation this women does to her mother to my Dad and as he did for my sister and I."
I sincerely hope not! This ladies "obligation" to her Mum has not always been of the healthiest for her or her Mum, hence the comments by Jude and myself.

"He would never have put us in the hands of strangers. Let's face it, no one loves and knows our family like we do."
Indeed they do not, and I'm truly glad for you that you grew up in such a family. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have this kind of experience as a child or an adult.

"If her mother is not in need of significant medical intervention and her daughter gains the means to lift her mother to bath her, dress her, feed her, get her to bed and give her PT. What is it that a care center is going to provide above that?"
In this case the Mother does have a strong need for significant medical intervention. The daughter posting has found it extremely difficult to accept a deterioration in her Mother's health. The things you suggest with regard to daily welfare are not all that is needed and sadly these things are not things that the daughter could just learn to do. With her Mother's increasing deterioration physically and mentally and the daughters blinkered attitude to both an unhealthy outcome could definitely be on the cards.

"Not to diminish the nursing industry but my my dad has the minute by minute care in his own home that he would never get in a home. It's simply a matter of patient to caregiver ratio. There are 2 of us here at all times. He's checked on constantly including BP and oxygen. Also, we have home health in 2x a week to validate his condition and offer inputs or suggestions. I really think it's just a matter of rolling up your sleeves and committing to care for your parents like they cared for you."

How fortunate for you and your Father that this is so. I would ask you to bear in mind though that not all family relationships are this healthy and the scenario is not always possible even where the family relationships are positive.
Your comments in such cases would add to the guilt and feeling of having let down a loved one which is entirely uncalled for.

"But remember when the medical industry suggests that you can't handle it and it's best for your parent to be institutionalized, they have their own agenda. A. They need to feel validated and B. someone's making money."

C they signed the Hippocratic Oath "do know harm" and can recognise that in some circumstances for the sake of ALL parties in the family professional intervention is needed.

" Follow your heart. Good luck and God bless to everyone doing the best that they can in difficult circumstances."

I would say follow your heart when it does not cause danger/potential danger to you or your cared for.
Being a carer at a slight distance or hands on are always difficult circumstances and I advocate being kind to yourself and those around you too.

God has a special place in heaven for caregivers.😇

Wow! How insulting, DadsAdvocate02. I want you to know that I have not relinquished my responsibility to my mother by sticking her in a nursing home. My sisters and I placed her in a care center appropriate to the level of care she needed. She is thriving! She is doing so much better than she was in the home of one of her daughters. She'd only been there a few months when her hip broke and she fell. The hospital recommended hospice care. That was provided in the NH. After a few months she had improved so much she was taken off the hospice program. She goes to all kinds of activities. She eats well. She is well taken care of. And we visit and advocate for her. We have NOT abandoned her.

Taking care of someone at home can work wonderfully. I cared for my husband through his ten years of dementia and he died in our bedroom. That was the right choice (I hope) for that situation. A professional setting is the right choice for our mother.

I'm glad that what you are doing works well for your situation. But how dare you make pronouncements about what everyone should do? How dare you suggest that using a care center is relinquishing responsibility? You know very little about the situations and circumstances of the people in this thread. Please keep your pronouncements to yourself.

I do have some sympathy for DadsAdvocate's point about received opinion being quite heavily slanted in favour of handing over care in the latter stages, though no sympathy at all with anything that sounds like an accusation of giving up levelled at caregivers.

But while I agree that most end of life and palliative care can be managed at home, I disagree it's necessarily a good idea, or that love and commitment are enough on their own to do that job safely. A caregiver taking it on also needs to understand clearly what the loved one's care and nursing needs are, and be able to meet them reliably. Enthusiasm on its own could easily lead to families biting off more they can chew, and that could lead to terrible stress and guilt on the part of the caregivers, and serious risk to the loved one.

I have the highest regards for everyone’s opinions and feedback. Some of you took a good deal of time and effort to express your views. So, thank you. My comments were not intended to lay guilt on anyone but my hope was that my opening statement would provoke folks to take a pause when those that do not understand the family dynamics make their suggestions that you need to institutionalize your loved ones because you cannot handle it. There are ways to ensure their safety and care at home depending on the circumstances and whether or not you have the means and resources to do so. To restate, we had the benefit of knowing our fathers wishes ahead of time. Be sure that you have those delicate conversations with your parents. It helps. And yes, my sister and I have been very fortunate that we had the Dad we did. I truly understand that not everyone had that kind of upbringing. Also, I should have put more emphasis on our particular circumstances. Our stepmother has POA for Dad. My Dads decision to appoint her made sense and my sister and I had/have no objections. There can only be one person with POA. Their can only be one chief at at time. I am #2 POA. My father wanted it that way as he also said that he trusted his daughters with his matters too. But we all had an amicable relationship and for legal reasons, bill management ect…The wife is the logical decision. But there have been allot of opinions and a few disagreements on the direction of dads treatment. However, out of respect for him, my sister and I have stood down and are not rocking the boat. What’s done is done. I won’t go down that rabbit hole. But we are not being prevented from seeing him at this time. However, let’s just say that even under the best of circumstances decision points can be extremely challenging when the fate of a loved one is on the table. Which is again why communication is key and why it’s so very important to understand your parents wishes ahead of time and even have them in writing if possible. For us it’s been a challenge to keep the ship on an even keel, while being kind to one another and staying the course with regards to many things that my father was very clear with us on all on. Thankfully, we had a family meeting when he was diagnosed. I don’t wish to water down the message here. But felt it important to offer some added information which is partially why I empathize with the women on the subject of POA. For the benefit of everyone, I want to restate that our situation is short term. Dad was given 12 months at the most and his treatment was halted 6 months in as he was unresponsive to all avenues. So, from a home health perspective, it’s now just a matter of ensuring that his day to day needs are taken care of and that he’s taking his meds for HBP, thyroid, blood thinner and steroid to minimize tumor swelling. We, along with the home health care professionals/hospice will continue to assess his condition and determine when/if he needs additional medications to keep him comfortable. Again, I apologize for not being very clear on this point, "our circumstances are short term". Again, good luck and god bless to all of you that you can find peace your decisions and balance in your own wellbeing.

Thank you for your explanation and I hope that your Father's transition between this life and beyond is as easy as possible.
The lady with the POA situation is also refusing to recognise dementia which sadly is a whole other ball game that many of us on this thread are caught up in.
I wish all of you involved in this journey with your Father peace and the sense of assurance that comes from knowing however hard, the right decisions were made, the right things done.
BTW I absolutely agree with you that delicate as it is this is a conversation that needs to be had, Though not just with parents, this is a journey every living person will make at some time. As none of us have a pre booked ticket we don't know when it will be, so have this talk asap and get it over and done with.

LucyCW my Mom is not on the dementia floor. She's on the skills floor to improve her walking. Her doctor said she has confusion and forgetfulness . The dementia is not severe. She's not designated to a dementia floor at the nursing center.

DadsAdvocate02 I thank God that you empathized with me and understood a different point of view as we all want a chance to provide caregiving to our loved ones even if circumstances are against us. I don't want to feel forgotten when I die, so I want my mother to feel her family never forgot her in the worst of time and space, and beyond.

at risk here, not exactly sure what is meant by "probationary period" and my dad wasn't already in a nursing home but when he was in the hospital and they were wanting him to go to nursing home but grandson, that he'd already had move in with him to take care of him, didn't want that but because of some things that were going on in the hospital, somewhat related to them wanting him to go to nursing home somewhat also related to this whole communication or lack thereof thing, they were also concerned and reluctant to let him go back home to him but I guess a difference was they couldn't just keep him in the hospital; they were going to have to let him go somewhere or have him/make him, not really sure exactly how all that works, just know what they were pushing for, but anyway, having said that, in the end they did agree to/with, if you will, a "probationary period" of 30 days to allow him to go back home with grandson - they said, not sure I'd heard of this before, if I understand/ood right, that the option for nursing home would still stand that long - had always heard they had to be in the hospital for 3 days to be able to go but I guess they can also go home and be out for 30 and still be able to go without having to go back in the hospital for another 3, which he was in there for longer than that anyway; now he was also sent home with home health as well, so his condition could be evaluated, so wasn't just left up to grandson to make the decision and also an appointment was made with what was supposed to be his main - not his primary - but his specialist who had actually already been treating his main condition - something I'm not really seeing in this situation - I didn't think she had a special medical condition - have I missed that?

Debdaughter Mom had a stroke about 10 years ago that impaired her right side, but she is improving in therapy. She has osteoporosis, mild dementia, and a few ailments .

ok, Momlover, but are those the special medical conditions?

Maybe I'm trying to remember; is she still supposed to be getting therapy for her stroke from 10 yrs. ago? somehow I would be surprised but have I missed and/or forgotten that that is the issue here?

sorry, missed your earlier comment; she's still getting therapy - and improving? - from her stroke

ML, I know your Mum is not on a dementia ward, and has been pointed out many times before by others here, it does not mean she does not have dementia!
Ok, you are acknowledging further down the page she does, even if it is mild now, sadly it will get worse unless something else happens to take her to join her Maker.
I have mild dementia right now, I'm not on a dementia ward BUT I am sadly aware of an increase in it's progression. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow. For the last couple of weeks I've been on a plateau, long may I stay here :~)

Tacy022 my Mom did not eat purée yesterday .

Please do not give a daily report of your mother's intake, or what she didn't eat. Really.

Vegaslady, I suggest if you are not interested in what you read here that you don't stay and read it. Some people reading this do want to have this information, for reasons I will not go into as you have not been following this thread for several months.

Today is my Birthday and my wish is that I hope that each and everyone of you gets quality time with your loved one today be it seconds, minutes or hours I just hope it's there.

Yes, it sounds to me like the POA may very well be shady if they're keeping you away from your mom and it sounds to me like the POA is probably working on her to gain everything when she dies.

Definitely get legal help on this one. Contact the APS and then call your State Bar association and get a lawyer right away who specializes in this specific area

Dontask4handout did you notice that this thread hasn't been active for a year? Did you read all 31 pages? Just wondering.

Hi jeannegibbs, no I didn't notice it was active for that long. All I know is I get these questions in my inbox daily and assuming that they are all new answers, I looked them over and help where I can. I think if something's going to be active for that long, at least the OP should come back and update everyone. I have one right now about my bio dad and every time I get an update, I always update my post. Perhaps maybe suggesting to the site admin's to go through and delete the ones where there's not been any activity for a certain time and only send new questions or updated old post where the OP updates

maybe that's a good idea; not sure about questions in my inbox; I get statements that there's been a new answer, that's what got me back here, then realized I'd been here before but got me wondering what's happened, I actually did end up reading all 31 pages, hoping at the end there'd be a real update but knew wouldn't make any sense if I didn't familiarize myself with the story; been a while, obviously and I've had a lot going on myself this year, and of all things particularly this weekend, somewhat relating to all of this. But maybe I'll try to go look at don's, since I don't remember that.
Jeannegibbs, don't remember if you're the one who or didn't want to hear about HELOC, reverse mortgages, upkeep, refitting house, etc. but would like to just update a bit; we did end up not getting the HELOC, over quite a bit of objection of hub's but we muddled through, got on a debt mgt. plan, he took a 2nd job, which led to a granddad/gd date night last night, but anyway, seems to be working out; debt term payoff reduced considerably, sometimes he seems okay, other times resentful at the extra hours working but was his choice to do to still have his play money; anyway almost lost first job this past year over a contract but they protested and won, he thinks because of him, I do, too, possibly, but I think because of our situation; if that had happened not sure what would have happened to us but then company got sold anyway so waiting to see what's going to happen with that; had all kinds of insurance issues last year but that got all taken care of but now happened again this year, costs went up along with increased co-pays but got somewhat of a raise to help take care of things, still more college to pay for for youngest, middle one had job issues that ended up helping with but all that seems to be at a point of being taken care of now, mof need to check account to see if last college payment taken out, oldest, who's still in dad's house, turned out gf with all the money putting into it guess got tired of no marriage only just missed the real thing by 3 days left him for his best friend who'd gotten divorced so hard year, friend who'd help bail dad out of car deal he got himself into over grandson got down to final point with situation her husband, who was actually the one who bailed us out with the same type thing that left her in a mess over finally killing himself over that type thing, so used little money dad left - whole situation over him taking care of him but then like she would they kept him up for years before, so which way to look at, anyway helped out of her situation and just today got it back but with personal check so need to get deposited ASAP; hub's uncle's VA appointment's tomorrow, had one Friday, aunt wanted me to come stay with her, they'd decreased her anxiety meds and she had a really hard time last time, but dil came and think stayed with and might tomorrow as well, will see....

debdaughter,

i'm constantly updating a question I previously posted. Someone on that thread requested updates as things unfold. Ohio residents dealing with estate issues can very easily learn from my story as things unfold and I update my thread. My thread is about my Alzheimer's dad who suddenly changed his beneficiary on his life insurance policy only three weeks before he died. Scroll all the way to the very last post to my most recent update. Those interested in learning about how things happen in Ohio especially with very unique cases like mine may find that they may be facing something similar. Yes, it's a pretty old thread but with constant new updates as things unfold.

Elder people, especially with osteoporosis, can fracture VERY EASILY. A hairline fracture, can become a full blown fracture in NORMAL ACTIVITY. Walking, standing, attempting to stand...video has a way of protecting caregivers...and exposing REAL abusers

I don't know if you ever got this resolved, but I was thinking that if there was a DPOA or even a guardian that they could deny you access to your mom. However, unless they were hiding something, why would day unless they had some very bad motive? People become monsters where money is involved and if the POA is handling the person's money, they may have their own thing going on, and that may actually involve coercion or some other crime they don't want discovered

Yes. The only way you can change what POA dictates, is to hire a lawyer specializing in eldercare, and see how they can help. It maybe a case of going before a judge.
Document EVERYTHING!
Darby