POA's and financial responsibility. Any advice?

I was healthcare & financial POA for both of my parents for 10+ years and was NEVER billed one red cent for ANY of their medical care, AL bills, funerals, rehab stays, nothing.

A medical power of attorney — also known as a health care proxy or health care agent — is someone who makes health care decisions for the principal if they're incapacitated. It's their job to ensure a senior's wishes, as stated in their advanced directive or living will, are upheld in case of end-of-life care.

A general POA, sometimes called a financial power of attorney, gives an agent power to: Sign documents on the senior's behalf. Open or close bank accounts and withdraw funds. Buy and sell property, real estate, and assets.

I had my name on my parents' bank accounts which enabled me to sign checks FOR them, on their behalf, to close their accounts out when they passed, etc.

I have been durable POA for 5 people. I have never been billed for anything personally. I sign documents as POA for Mary Smith.

I think that you may know too little about POA to take this on. First of all, with no finances, and no monies, there is nothing to manage. Whatever your Mother has now will go to her care, and the State will supply the rest. She doesn't really need a POA and I am uncertain why you would want this.
Moreover, unless your Mother is completely mentally competent she can no longer confer upon someone a POA. This is done by a mentally well person, asking another person to manage ALL finances and keep track of every penny in and every penny out, and it is done when they are well for future needs. So it is too late to get Mom to give you POA. You would have to go for guardianship. And why would you? Do you have a reason to want this? Do you feel capable of keeping track of all the finances.
When you are guardian or trustee or POA you sign all papers as POA. So basically you are acting for the person as their POA or their Trustee or their Guardian. But you are not financially responsible for their care. Their own assets, which you manage for them, go to their own care and you keep records of it all.
An attorney will happily explain all of this to you. There is no reason I can see for you to have any of this while your mother is in care, her care is being paid for, and you already are managing her medical decisions for her.
I wish you the best. I was POA and Trustee for my brother. It is a BIG job and you have a lot of time on the phone and arranging things. It isn't to be taken on lightly. I wouldn't want to do this job for anyone again.
When your Mother passes you may be executor or her will or she may have appointed someone else. There will likely be no assets and what assets she had may go to pay back medicaid of whatever governmental agency paid for her care. She likely won't even have a probate to be filed.
I wish you the best.

If your mother is seeking SSDI, what is her age? It's because she can no longer work due to a medical condition. Also because she has no money, apply for Medicaid since she has limited income and resources.

I took care of my the age 92 to 93-year-old mother back in 2012 to 13 with durable POA to pay bills on her behalf and Never got Billed with her expenses. She got Medicaid to pay her expenses. I was not financially responsible for her final legal or medical expenses because OR State where Mom lived will eventually get repaid after I leave my condo or pass away. Much more humane than the State of CA. The only financial responsibility left is a small promissory note against the CA condo where she once lived with me before nursing home in OR near my brother.

I hope you by now seeked counsel with an eldercare attorney about your mother's situation. Remember, you are never responsible for your mother's expenses. It comes from her Medicaid assistance and estate after her death. If no funds left, the State eats her final expenses, Not You.

You're not taking on any legal ownership of debt with a POA. However from my own experience, once someone has your name, they LOVE to throw your name on the bills even though it is not legal for them to do so. Whenever I see one show up with my name on it (other than mailing address) I have to nip it in the bud immediately and remind them to take my name OFF as the billed party as I am just handling the finances on behalf of my Dad. They've been good to do this, but his nursing home has done this twice to me so far. They have so much turnover that there is no continuity but I at least have an email from their parent company's finance office with me in copy directing the facility to remove me. You have to be diligent. I've now stopped paying bills other than his cell phone as he has no money and only gets to keep $73 a month, the medical bills they can turn over to collections or write off. Doesn't affect him in any way, he won't be needing a loan any time soon and if he needs ambulance transport to the hospital, they can't turn him away even if he owes them money.

I had to obtain financial and health POA for my sister when she descended into early onset dementia. I had to do this in order to manage her funds and get her enrolled in Medicare. If your mom's care is already in order, you probably will not need a durable POA.
The other issue is once your loved one dies, your POA dies along with them. You have no legal standing once they pass.
With a financial POA, if there are other sibs or kin, they may ask you for a ledger, an explanation of how you managed your loved one's finances. I was asked for that and thank goodness I had saved all receipts, etc.

PsalmsTestimony, SS doesn't recognize DPOA, you would have to become her representative payee.

You are in more danger of being responsible for her debt if you sign anything without being her DPOA. You need to read every word of anything you sign. Most documents for services have hidden in the wording that by signing you accept financial responsibility. So you would sign as POA for mom and not just you to protect yourself from being responsible.

If your mother gets qualified for SSDI, Social Security will automatically appoint you to be her representative payee if they find that she is incompetent to pay her bills. You will have to keep records/receipts of every penny that you use from her SSDI payments as Social Security might from time to time seek answers as to how her money is spent. Once your mother qualifies for SSDI, the Social Security office will explain everything to you and what your role will be for your mother. The elder lawyer will also explain all of this to you.

I believe you definitely need a Durable Power of Attorney as it allows you to manage everything on your Mother’s behalf. I recently got one on my Mother and it has helped immensely. While at times it was a process to get it approved once it is, it is a valuable tool. Also nowhere in the POA does it say that you accept or will take on responsibility for your Mother’s debts. I think sometimes when you hear secondhand advice, parts of it may get lost in the delivery. Have you personally reviewed the contents of a POA? If not let me know and I could send one to you.

State of Pennsylvania:
My mother went to court to obtain guardianship of her mother.
Long story short - Her mother had resided with another sibling who then decided she no longer wanter their mother around when their mother actually needed to be physically taken care of rather than their mother helping the siblings/family financially while she resided there.
She dumped their in my mother's driveway and said "Your turn".
My mother went to a lawyer. Got durable power of attorney also went to court to obtain gaurdianship of their mother. She had to keep financial records of everything and give an accounting to the courts. However, she was never herself held liable for any debts incurred by her mother after doing so. She did have to spend down her mother's money in order for their mother to go on medicaid in the nursing home. At the point she obtained coustody, there was not much money left to spend down. Hope this info helps. Best to see a lawyer. The lawyer fees, gaurdianship fees were paid for from their mothers own account as neither benefitted my mother in any way. Also my mother paid for thier mother's funeral from their mother's account during spend down.

Everyone is correct on here on what a financial POA does. My concern is if the stroke caused your mom some diminished mental capacity you may be prevented from getting a financial POA. Your mom has to be cognizant in order to sign for the POA but not sure what the rules are for the healthcare POA since you already have that. If your mom understands what she is signing, all is good but if she cannot sign documents or could not be considered mentally aware, this would prevent you from getting the POA as a lawyer would never want to put him/herself in a position of creating one under those circumstances. My mom had a stroke and had to be in a nursing home and thank goodness I had obtained the POA well before this occurred. I too was worried about my financial culpability from the nursing home and other medical entities if her monies could not pay for her services but there is no worry there as they cannot come after you at all. I do agree with the person who said you would not necessarily need it if there were no funds but you left out the detail of pending disability SSI and for that a POA would be useful. Also if the monies are deposited into an account you should also make sure your name is on that account as payable upon death. You can do this after getting the financial POA. And it is true you must be meticulous about keeping notes on how the money is spent else there could be consequences to you. The other poster is right, all of this not a job we ever want but sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do. Best of luck to you.

Meet with the attorney, because you don't understand how a POA works.

You have zero personal financial responsibility for the person for whom you hold POA, but you shouldn't take on the responsibilities if you don't understand them.

Financial POA only gives me “permission” to act on my moms behalf when it comes to finances. My mom doesn’t have two nickels to rub together. In no way, shape or form am I or will I ever be responsible for paying her bills with my money. Debt collectors will tell you differently. I’ve been receiving bills for over a year (she lived with me for the first year of Covid)-each one gets ripped in half and thrown out.

Psalms, search Google for laws governing POA in SC. This will help you understand what it is, how you are expected to operate and what authority you have and much more. It is pretty easy reading and you can look up the definition to legal words you aren't sure of.

I, personally, think that everyone should read the state laws that govern POAs for their state, because you are accountable to that law and ignorance is no excuse for breaking those laws.

I looked online to learn more about immoral billing practices and I see something emphatically saying it's illegal to make POAs pay but also as others have pointed out, you have to read contracts before you sign them.

Be legally protected.

LEGALLY managing legal documents (healthcare, finances) doesn't mean you are personally responsible for paying outstanding bills (you are managing 'their' monies).

You need to consult an attorney so you understand all this.
You need this assurance.

As someone said below, you need to have your legal authority in place to protect yourself. Do this ASAP.

Get an MD letter/document indicating your mother is incapacitated to handle her financial affairs due to the stroke. This letter / document is needed / critically important for you to move forward (from what you tell us). Your mother is unable to make these decisions. You must get legal authority to do so.

Please set an appointment to meet with an Elder Law Attorney in your area to get clarity on the laws that pertain to you and take advantage of that appointment to figure out how to plan for your final years and wishes.

P.S. Please get the attorney to read any contracts you sign.

Yes, it is good you are going to consult an elder law attorney as laws can vary in each state. I believe others are correct in that a POA does not make you financially responsible for her debts. I understand that those she owes money to may bill the POA but you do not have to pay from your own funds. They just want to know from the POA as the person responsible for her bills whether there are funds to pay those bills. The attorney will be the best person to provide advice how to handle those situations should they arise in the future.

Your mom must be mentally competent to sign a POA. A stroke does not necessarily mean your mom is incapacitated mentally to be unable to sign a POA. Strokes affect persons in different ways physically and mentally. Since you have Healthcare POA, you should be able to get any records regarding her mental state to show to the attorney. After a stroke, they likely have done some sort of assessment and follow-up assessments.

I'm guessing you are pretty familiar with her financial situation...amount of income (i.e. social security); nursing home costs and medicaid payments and whatever amount provided by charity; and balances of her bank accounts. That may influence the action plan so whatever you can provide the attorney may determine his advice.

If she is incompetent, then conservatorship and maybe guardianship would normally be in order which are court actions for appointment. There are reports required at certain intervals but with so few assets and payees of her expenses, it would not be that difficult for you to keep track of. But again, the attorney may have different advice based on her mental capacity and financial situation.

Wish you the best in working through this situation. Take care of yourself.

Work out with the eldercare attorney. Looks like you misunderstand how your mother pays for her care. It is with Her income and Medicaid, Not Your Funds. If your mother spent down to Medicaid level, all her income goes to her care, not to you. Her funds are and not to be comingled with your funds. That is Medicaid rules. Any broken rules will break the law.

A Financial POA and Medical POA just gives you power - the ability to make financial and medical decisions for your loved one when they cannot make decisions for themselves. It doesn't pose any threats of bill collectors coming after you unless you sign documents that states they can hold you responsible. this is why you should always run documents by an attorney before signing.
my company connects people with law firms that create Wills, POA's and most importantly those of us with elder parents Elder Care Law. you are welcomed to reach out to me if you have any questions or would like to learn more. my dad passed 2 years ago and my brother and i have POA for our 91 year old mother. plus we had her Will updated. there is so much to do and know to make sure our elderly parents are cared for while protecting both them and us.

I have said to see an attorney. Also, see a Medicaid specialist in your mother's region since rules are extremely complex.

Keep all receipts and online activities for every single red cent spent for the lookback period to to prove whose expenses they belong to. Many states count spendown back to five years. Your Mother's Expenses, Not Yours.

PsalmsTestimony: I had Durable Power of Attorney for my mother and I was never billed a penny. Part of the reasoning behind any health care facility including ambulances billing a DPOA is that they would have had to possess my address, which was out of state and not known to them. Perhaps you should retain an elder law attorney. Your mother is a supercentenarian.

You say no insurance, so no Medicare? Is she a US citizen?

Is she really 112 years old? And no dementia? That’s pretty impressive.

I'm currently dealing with my mother being in a nursing home/rehab facility, fighting with her healthcare insurance for 2022 - and her new healthcare insurance for 2023 - over payment for her continued rehab into 2023, and getting her signed up/approved for Medicaid as long-term care is in her near future. While all of this is going on, I've been researching a lot and the Federal and State laws pertaining to Nursing Homes/Rehabilitation Facilities. I found this very helpful: 42 CFR 483.15 (a). This is the Code of Federal Rules that governs admission, transfer, and discharge rights of patients in a nursing home/rehabilitation facility. I bring this to your attention as I was concerned about being my mother's POA and any outstanding payment due to the facility if insurance and/or medicare will not pay. I direct your attention to sentence 2 of paragraph (a)3:

(a)3: "The facility must not request or require a third party guarantee of payment to the facility as a condition of admission or expedited admission, or continued stay in the facility. However, the facility may request and require a resident representative who has legal access to a resident's income or resources available to pay for facility care to sign a contract, WITHOUT INCURRING PERSONAL FINANCIAL LIABILITY, to provide facility payment from the resident's income or resources." (emphasis added - capitalization on my part).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/483.15

Not sure if this helps/answers any questions, but it helped put my mind at ease.

When signing contracts with DPOA just watch the wording in the contracts. I had DPOA and I made sure that they could not ask me for money and that the amount I agreed to would be stated in the contract. I did pay for part of the care because I agreed to pay for it but my parents income could not pay for the care needed. When he did pass away and tax time came around his care was tax deductible. When I started to get calls for items (because he was cared for during the pandemic 2020) I was not able to sign for items. I told the collectors they needed to go back to the facility and collect from them and see who signed for the items because I did not and they were not to call me again. You will need to account for the finances especially if your parent ends up on Medicaid. Make a folder and just place the receipts in it.

What are you scared of?? You will Not get sued. Please talk with the attorney.

Ask your elder law attorney the same questions you have here. That’s going be the ultimate authority for your legal and financial advice. It will be worth the effort.

No...I've been my sons POA and healthcare surrogate for 30yrs.