Parents (both 90) refuse to listen to children about safety when aide leaves. Both have walkers and need assistance. They live alone. Advice?

They are 90, but you don't mention them as having dementia. If they are able to remember camera system and how to disable it then at least one of them is like NOT suffering from dementia. So this then falls into the realm of their own choice, unless I am mistaken.
If I am right, and there isn't a dementia diagnosis, you are going to have to understand that they are alone, vulnerable to fall because of their age, and that this eventually WILL happen. There is at least two of them, and with 911 easy to remember, able to be posted, I think you may be down to that for now.
You understand this is a disaster waiting to happen. You can sit them down and gently explain that these devices are for their safety and their good, and that realistically people of this age DO fall and WILL fall. But I am not certain what else you are able to do but make house as cleaned out, trip proof stair free as you are able, with all needed things easily reached.
I am 78. I recognize that falls now mean that something is more like to break than not. With that recognition the way I move in the world is different, always using bannisters, not carrying things down stairs, no more ladders, and etc. BUT....things do eventually come to this place.
I hope others have better ideas for you to try.

Sad to say, your parents are simply exercising their rights to live alone. And, also sadly, it will probably take a serious incident to occur to get them to agree with you that they need to accept a certain level of help, or they will not be able to live 'independently'.

You can either wait for an 'incident' or have a "come to Jesus" sit down with them and explain (kindly and lovingly) that you are worried about them, and your putting cameras in the house and calling them is for THEIR safety, you are trying to give them a happy medium of independence and support.

I personally think that PT probably DOES help them, at least a little. Desiring to keep moving is a good sign. You may want to meet the PT's. At least there are eyes on the scene a couple days a week?

I would be firm about them answering the phone. For them to not do that is simply thoughtless and rude.

Do you treat them as adults or dim children? I don't appreciate when my kids treat ME like I'm an addlepated nut case. I'm 64, busy and active--but my kids all treat me like I'm unable to function. If I can still be left with their kids to watch, they can't pull that 'mom, you're getting old' on me.

At the end of the day, there is nothing you can really DO to make your folks 'bend to your will'. We all see that you care for them, they are making things difficult, but they have that right.

Regroup with brother and try to reason with them. 90 is pretty old (both my mom and MIL are 90 and I KNOW how fragile they are--but my Gma's at 90 were still living alone and totally capable of daily living.)

Come back--people will have a lot to say that can help you.

My dad lived alone until he was 96, lived in a three-story house, and used a walker. He also loved having throw rugs around to keep the "good" carpet clean. He was a disaster waiting to happen but miraculously he never fell. I had stair lifters installed so he could get up and down the stairs easily. They had remote controls so he could send them to the bottom or top of the stairs. He used them like dumbwaiters to "carry" stuff up and down for him while he continued to walk up and down. I did have someone do a cutout in the tub so he could just walk in and not step over the edge. Otherwise I just waited for the fall. If you aren't dealing with dementia then they are allowed to live as they want, even though it makes us crazy. My suggestion is just to do your best to do small things that are as unobtrusive as possible in their lives and then let the rest go. No one needs to watch them overnight and the camera is really an invasion of their privacy. Check in by phone each day, make certain both of them can use the phone to contact you in case of emergency, and then let it go. As long as they are capable of making decisions they are allowed to make bad decisions. It's still their life.

I agree with the 3 posts currently here. In this situation, I don’t think there is much you can do (unfortunately) except accept that they have made this choice. That suggestion is not always easy to hear, but I think it applies in this case. We all only can do what we can do.

Regarding physical therapy coming to the house, that is almost always a good idea. They are experts and can do so many things to try to help prevent falls. Falls usually happen at some point anyway, but physical therapy can help delay it as long as possible. It was very smart of your parents to have therapy come out and they fortunate. Also, if the therapists do not feel that your parents are benefiting from the therapy, the therapy will be stopped. Medical insurance will not pay for therapy once improvement from that therapy stops / no gains are seen by the therapists. Especially with this pandemic when agencies are running very short staffed and they have people waiting to be seen that could benefit from the therapy.

Regarding the phone not being answered: is it possible that you and your brother are just driving your parents nuts with continued questions and suggestions about their health and safety when you call them? Is this why they are no longer answering the phone? You love them and are concerned and don’t want anything bad to happen. Believe me, I get it. But if all the concerned comments, questions and suggestions are now causing them to not answer the phone, maybe it is better to ease up a bit so maybe they will start answering the phone again.

Best of luck to you; I know it’s not easy.

Would they be willing to wear one of those Life Alert type buttons?
If so, get the kind worn on the wrist. More often than not, a person will remove the type worn as a necklace when they shower and go to bed.

Unfortunately there is not much you can do.
If they are cognizant you can not "force" them to accept help, or take precautions that you and your brother want them to.
Unless or until someth8ing happens to either of them the choice is theirs to make.
You can however present scenarios that might occur.
Ask both of them what would happen if either of them were to be injured. Maybe something like this.
"Mom, if dad falls and you can not care for him where would you want him to go for rehab?" Ask dad the same.
"Dad, if mom falls and and can not return home what will you do? Would you want to go live with her in Assisted Living or do you want to stay here, by yourself?"
Ask both of them what funeral arrangements they want just in case any injury was a fatal one.
I know sounds brutal but maybe they need a reality check and explain that you want them safe but you realize they have a choice in the decision and you want to be prepared for anything.

You might tell them your concerns and ask if they would wear a First Alert Necklace in case of a Fall.

You also might have another camera mounted in a different area that they will feel comfortable leaving on all the time because I have 3 Nest Cameras in my 96 ye old Dad's house and you can hear him from watching the camera from another room.

You or your brother won't be able to do anything about it as long as they have their mental faculties, which sounds like they do. Sounds like they just want some privacy.
Mout falls do happen in the bathroom so hopefully your brother has installed hand rails in the shower/bath and a Shower/Bath Seat.

You might hide a Baby Cam in the Bathroom where you can hear only just in case he falls. But, at least he has your mom there to call your brother or 911 if her husband falls.

Not too likely that both will fall at the same time.

Elders that don’t have dementia are free to make their own decisions, even those we may disagree with. You’re in the position that many here are, waiting for an event that will force change. Please don’t ruin your relationship with your parents by trying to force them to accept what they aren’t willing to do. They are clinging to their independence and life as they’ve known it. And there is something admirable in that, even though it’s frustrating. Hopefully they’ll accept life alert buttons to wear. I wish you well in this

If you installed a camera system without their permission, then shame on you for a gross breach of their privacy.

If their doctors haven't certified them as incompetent, then you and your brother need to step back. Sure, try to got them to wear Life Alert pendants, but otherwise respect their rights to live their lives.

Yes, the "crisis" day will come, but no amount of what you're doing will prevent it from happening. Just back off, have some contingency plans with your brother, and let them have their independence as long as they can enjoy it.

Step back. Their choices, their consequences. I have found the hard way that i cannot “make” anyone do what they should do. All I got was headaches and worries. So I stepped back. Unfortunately, you have to wait for something bad to happen. I am sorry... and wish you well.

Loss of independence and privacy is very tough for many seniors. It is their right and decision to do it their way, just be sure they understand the realities of fall risk and the need to remove risk factors for fall risk management. If they will heed professional advisors, Dr.,Nurse, P.T. it is less....painful.
Many times it is easier to hear from a pro, our family dynamics/issues can be a factor in listening to common sense aging issues. If people are stubborn they may have to live with their decisions. We all fall... eventually. Not driving, that is a big one too!

Loss of independence and privacy is very tough for many seniors. It is their right and decision to do it their way, just be sure they understand the realities of fall risk and the need to remove risk factors for fall risk management. If they will heed professional advisors, Dr.,Nurse, P.T. it is less....painful.
Many times it is easier to hear from a pro, our family dynamics/issues can be a factor in listening to common sense aging issues. If people are stubborn they may have to live with their decisions. We all fall... eventually. I like the wrist fall/emergency device as well, peace of mind for loved ones and the service will contact a family member if needed.Not driving, that is a big one too!

Physical therapists CAN help. They may not improve to the point they were 20 years ago, but any exercise will help to maintain where they are. The longer you can keep the legs moving, the better of they/you will be. Don't blow that service off. Use it, ask to continue it, if it ends, ask for it again in about a month. Keep it coming. PT is also another set of eyes on your parents.

If they are aware of what they are doing, then there needs to be a conversation with them. These are the things we need done at your home so that you can both continue to live here. If the camera is too intrusive in your bedroom, we can move it. If something happens to either of you, we might have to be able to show that we tried to keep you safe....would you want us to end up in jail for neglect???

If your parents don’t have dementia, take a step back and be thankful you don’t have to be their carers. I would give anything to be in this situation. Don’t worry ahead of time. It accomplishes nothing. They have a right to their privacy.

Good suggestions for devices in case of falls. I got my mom a Life Alert (on Dr.'s advice) for the wrist, but she would forget to wear it due to dementia & also said she hated people asking her what time it was, then she'd have to explain it. However, there is one monitor that my mom's Dr. recommended that some people use for their pets, in that it surveys the floor area, so maybe less intrusive? Not sure how it is installed tho.
My mom's Dr. said: "If mom usually goes in the kitchen about the same time of the day, you'd be able to see if she's ok, If not, then a phone call to check on her is a good idea.

I guess we will all be stubborn when we get older, but IF they are at a risk for being hurt bad, he can check with office of aging to see what can be done.  make sure there are no "throw rugs" in the house, are there handrails in the bathroom?  there might not be too much he can do other than wait for something to happen.  Do they have a life alert button to use in case one of them does fall or has a problem?  maybe your brother can redo another camera where they cannot reach it (nor know about it).  someone would have to keep your parents busy while he re-hooked it back up. other than getting some kind of guardianship (does anyone have POA?) to make some decisions for them.  Also...has anyone asked them about maybe moving into an AL place where they both can be together?  wishing you and your brother luck.

Ahhhhh! As Dave Ramsey says, this is the Powdered Butt Syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they won't listen to any advice from you. (giggle). There is nothing you can do except wait to pick up the pieces.

You live out of town. Have a rough action plan if called to assist.

Your brother is closer & will be first responder. He may want an action plan too. What is he willing to do? Drop everything to rush over for an emergency?

Then work with your brother to define *emergency*.

I signed up for that, but 'emergencies' became 12 falls a year + spilled coffee, stuck in a chair, feeling nauseous, taxi didn't arrive...on & on.
So I quit & joined the Stepped Back club too. For falls she has a fall alarm & must call EMS instead. The rest she has to sort out herself with her home help.

Your folks are still independent (maybe, just?) Next comes semi-dependant. How much will be reasonable for you both to do to keep them living their way?

First, congratulations that you have both parents and they can look out for each other. Second, if I were your parent and you put a camera in my house you wouldn't be welcome any more. Third if they aren't senile get used to worrying just like they did when you left home. Lastly, tell them if they don't answer when you call (if you arent a pest when you do), you won't answer when they call you.

As difficult it is to step back, you need to take a breath and do so. A lovely 87 year old said to me "there are such things as helicopter children. They take their jobs very seriously and at times they lose sight of the fact their parents have made it this far. It is best to step back, be their child again and treasure them. Parents know that they are coming to final days, dont remind them of this every time you talk or visit. End of life is scary. Relax, enjoy their company treat them as parents and friends.

Imho, herein lies the proverbial problem - part of the issue is that your father is arising THAT early every morning when there is no real need. I tried to amend my mother's time of wakefulness to no avail, but she wasn't arising even BEFORE THE SUN CAME UP. So okay - if your parents (and God bless them they both have each other at this time in their lives) are 'following their own rules.' then they causes you the worry dilemma. Step back - you cannot live with the 'what ifs' (something happens to them). Too much anxiety of you. Prayers sent.

They have prevented your brother from monitoring them by camera.
They *refuse* to answer the phone? - just to your brother? To you as well? Are they refusing, or are they not hearing it, or what?
They have PT appointments which they don't tell you about.
Your father likes to get up and shower at an unusually early time.

Um.

Has anything happened that actually carries risk of harm?

How long is there an aide with them during the day? Have you asked the aide's opinion of their care needs?

How about talking to them and include their decisions as part of their care plan to set things up with what they need assistance for. For example, if they need grab bars and a shower and bathroom mat, but they refuse to get it. Maybe you can ask how will you get up if you fall or what can you do to prevent yourself from falling. Maybe offer to help pay for those things if you can and ask where you they want the grab bars placed. Also, maybe you can try making suggestions by giving them options. Explain to them this is what is happening now and these are your choices. Explain the choices. Let them choose, but encourage the better choices. Try not to decide for them unless its absolutely necessary.

In my case, I live with my parents who were declining so I had to take over gradually. For instance, my mom would make her appointment with the doctor, dentist and hairstylist. She never wrote it down. She never told me when her appointments date and time. Then she would ask me when it is. She would call back repeatedly to ask when. I repeatedly told her to write it down. Finally, we fought about it for a while, I started scheduling her appointments without telling her to make her think that she had an appointment scheduled. So in other words, it may not be the best strategy, but I had to find someway of helping her.

I have also taken caregiver workshop classes and support group meetings. If you haven't already, it may help to get feedback from people who are in this profession. I cannot blame you for doing what you did. However, for anyone dealing with caregiving should know it is a very challenging world to be in. We are going to make mistakes. It is inevitable. Take classes and join caregiver groups to help guide you through this journey. There are many resources and so much need to know information. And everyone's level of caregiving is and is not the same.

Enlist social services / social worker.
Clearly, they will not listen to you and/or have cognitive issues limiting their ability to listen or care about consequences.
* There is NO need to tell them there is a camera installed. If you/r brother want to install it again, don't tell them. Take them for a ride while it is being done.
* As others have said, you can do so much and then you must realize that you cannot do more or other.
* I thought you meant "children" as in 5-12 years old. You mean their adult kids (you) -
* Give them two options: (1) Take a shower and risk falling and ending up in rehab for six months; (2) shower when caregiver there. Options between two possibilities limits the yes or no response.
* At 90, they've lived their lives and whatever decisions they make comes with consequences. Perhaps they are 'ready to go' as crude as this may sound. If they want to be alone when they are, so be it.
* It may be that you need to adjust to 'what is,' and change how you view the situation, accepting what happens happens. They may not ever change at their age and cognitive functioning.
P.S. When I bring up to my 87 year old friend "you might fall," he says "No, I won't." I work with elders and have to adjust several times a day under a variety of situations, ages, temperaments, cognitive and physical functioning. It is always a 'letting go' learning experience. And, my feelings pass - I don't stay stuck there for long. Thank God as it often doesn't feel good in those moments. Now, if my mom had lived longer than 76, she would have been hell on wheels (she was already). She burned her kitchen counter, living alone and was very needy. * Be sure there are smoke detectors in your parents' home and perhaps get those cameras re-installed - and perhaps more than one. Gena.