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I have to meet with nursing home next week about outstanding bill. When my dad was there for a month, they did not give him the required Keppra which I believe is neglect. They in fact self reported themselves on this.


I think they should negotiate a lower bill due to this error. They don't seem to budge. Why should my mom pay the full bill when they didn't provide him with all required meds? While the Keppra was for seizures, and he didn't have a seizure, I don't think ANYONE can say that the lack of the required med didn't effect his well being. Furthermore, my mom paid to have him cared for as the MD instructed. They failed in this. My dads dignity was at stake. How do I approach them? I suppose I could do a full frontal assault bad PR thing on Yelp, etc. If my mom has to pay the full bill, it will not make a difference in her life, but I think NH should have some accountability. I read stories on this forum about NH all the time where the NH did not provide the services the family paid for, like one recently about not brushing teeth. Not a huge deal, but that family deserved to make sure the NH brushed their fathers teeth. These places need accountability.

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Karsten, billing mistakes do happen. And you need to find out if giving meds is part of the monthly fee. Some places do charge extra for what is called MedTech services.

I needed to reply regarding putting a full frontal assault on Yelp or any other social media... do not do it. Many a person has been sued by businesses for slander/libel where such a report had been placed. Yes, we have freedom of speech, but freedom of speech typically boils down to whether someone is expressing their opinion or asserting a fact, and that can be a grey area.
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Reply to freqflyer
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"NH should have some accountability."---"They in fact self reported themselves on this."  Based on these two statements, I think that the nursing home acted responsible by admitting their mistake and by reporting the mistake to ?the state agency overseeing nursing homes?   The state agency will determine what consequences the nursing home will receive for making the medication mistake. 

Some nursing homes charge separately for administrating any and all medications, but it is usually is not a "per medication" charge, but a "daily" charge for administering ALL medications that day.  Some nursing home include the administering of medications as part of the "Room and Board" daily charge.  No matter if the nursing home used an "In-house" Pharmacy or a Pharmaceutical company to supply your Father's medications while he was in the nursing home, there should NOT be any Keppra listed on the Pharmacy bill.  You should be talking to the Pharmacy about not charging for the Keppra since it was not given.

I understand that you are upset and very angry, BUT broadcasting your feelings on Social Media is NOT the way to handle your feelings.  You could be sued for Liable or Slander. and end up making the situation WORSE for your Family and yourself.  Instead, talk to a licensed counselor about your feelings of anger, betrayal, etc.
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Reply to DeeAnna
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I don't think most Nursing Home billing staff even have the authority to adjust the bill unless there is a clear billing error. I doubt they will have the authority to give you the discount you want.

If you want money back from the nursing home, consult a lawyer about what type of damages you might get from them for their failure to provide the best care.

I think having to place your parents in a nursing home is a frightening experience. If you can, a couple of sessions with a counselor helping you process your feelings might be very helpful. How is your dad doing now? I hope he is recovering.
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Reply to anonymous594015
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Having followed your story for awhile now, I think you need to let it go. I think you are understandably grieving and angry. And it seems you may be channeling all of this in the wrong direction. Even if you get the nursing home to “pay”, I don’t think it’s going to change anything. That’s why I think it’s time to let this go and work on healing yourself. It isn’t healthy to hold on to these things.
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Reply to worriedinCali
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The nursing home made an error of Omission not of
Comission or they "forgot" instead of "intentionally" doing something wrong.

I doubt you'd have a case if you took it up with their governing board. You would need to show "purposeful" mal intent on their part. (Like physical abuse or withholding food. Your dad did not have any negative effects (it seems) due to not receiving the medicine. So you can't 'prove' their lack of care 'hurt' him.

I understand where you're coming from and I understand your dad was a defenseless elder-depending on their professionalism to see to his well being-and they failed with this one medication. They were honest enough to "tell" on themselves. (Be grateful for that! That means they won't cover up mistakes.)

I'm not sure if your dad has passed away-I'll assume so. I have seen family members have your tenacity with a small problem (or what they "perceive" as a problem), but it's actually redirected anger. You're upset that the loved one passed so the plethora of emotions is redirected to something you can "sink your teeth into". IMHO, I think that's what's happening.

If I were you, I would ask the director of nursing to write your mother a letter of apology. I would use that as your "payment" or reduction in the fee.
I believe you'll let go of this and your mind will ease up. If you're still fuming about this in a couple of months, I'd suggest a therapist to help you navigate your (as you say) "OCD".
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Reply to SueC1957
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Just thought I would report on the outcome. Went to nursing home and negotiated a 30% refund, almost 3000 bucks. So it doesn't hurt to try as I did.
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Reply to Karsten
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rocketjcat Dec 21, 2018
Excellent job! You persisted when many of us would just have given up. Inspiring!
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That’s great news! Congratulations!
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Reply to Shane1124
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In the future you should report neglect of following through with a medication to the State Dept of Health. Your problem is a systems issue on many levels starting with failure of an appropriate doctors prescription.
The state can investigate, put the home on notice, or fine them. Some states publish the sanctions. The state may decide to keep the home on their radar and follow up with future inspections. If you do not report than the safety of others are at risk.

I did that by reporting a pharmacy for bottling a double dose of meds. The pharmacy got sanctioned and the pharmacist who filled the bottle was required to take extra training to keep her license.

The moneory fines are difficult for individuals like yourself to persue, however a systems problem can be plugged off for the future safety of others in the home. Congrats on your persistance
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Reply to MACinCT
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As a fellow OCD, I can relate. The key imho is to find something to channel the energy and doggedness that is OCD into something beneficial and be willing to run risk that all was in vain. You did and your mom has a extra bit of $ due to you. And you know, just know, that your late dad would be happy you persevered.

I hope you continue to post on AC and especially to those that find themselves dealing with billing snafu’s as it’s so often like being in a county that uses Cyrillic script.
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Reply to igloo572
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I suppose a million people have tried this, but I really feel some urge to try to in some small way contribute to repairing the elder care system. I guess the problems are not intentional, lack of staff, etc, but for the money they charge that should not be an issue. Cant help feeling there are good profits being made, though I could be wrong. From my own experience with my dad and others at the places he was in and reading those on here, I get angry.

In one of my dads places there was this woman who was always wailing, I gotta go, I gotta go, and no one would pay attention to her. I asked the staff and they said she always does that, and I suppose they are right. But something about that scene, realizing that was someones mom/grandma/spouse looking so feeble and desperate just crushed me. I guess I don't know what could have been done if she always does this. But to me as said, this is more than just their physical well being, its about their dignity as a person that somehow needs to be addressed.
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Reply to Karsten
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anonymous594015 Dec 21, 2018
There is a woman in the nursing home I visit who yells "Help Me. Help me". I asked her how I could help her and she said she had a cake in the oven for her party tonight and it needed to come out. I said I would do that. Ten minutes later she was yelling help me again.

I don't know what the staff could do to stop that except possibly overmedicate her. And they are choosing not to do that. I imagine hearing "Help me" all day is stressful for everyone- even the people who work there.
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