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Linda9195- money is beyond tight, we would have to have some to make it tight and we don't. For guardianship it's a minimum $2500 and if she contests it, which she will then it just skyrockets. Just a retainer is about that. There's no possible way we can come up with anything close. And she has to be willing to be placed and she isn't. She only does what she wants to do and will not even answer questions.

I tried calling the commitment guy but didn't get ahold of him. I'll try again tomorrow. I'm gonna ask him if there's some kind of order they can do so she will get the tests needed etc. Outpatient treatment. But they didn't give me anything after court. So I don't know how it's going to go.
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Even though money is tight, I suggest you find money to hire an eldercare attorney. I find it hard to believe that she is not eligible for Medicaid under the circumstances you have described. The attorney will help you qualify for home health care services and perhaps a nursing home. It will be expensive up front to pay for an attorney, but well worth the investment in the long run.
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Kam, it sounds like a complete pig's breakfast they made of it, I'm so sorry. WHAT a mess. Phew. Hope you get somewhere soon with all this, keep us updated.
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Countrymouse- and they discharged her as her own person with rights. They could not treat her. She refused. And they could not force meds. It's confusing listening to professionals contradict and lie all in the same sentence and because their the 'professional' shrinks they literally think by using their psychobabble talk were to idiotic to catch on.
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Debralee- I didn't read either way on the ct scan report, an they wouldn't tell me. I was going to call the hospital and see if I can ask the dr who saw my mom in the er, would have another radiologist read and let us know what he thinks. Countrymouse- no, I did not remove her from any of them. I was just there persistently making sure they had all her medical info so they wouldn't give her something she can't have, which is a lot. The 'professionals' didn't like that and made it a point to not put me in the loop. Frustrating... So no I was present and showing she has family who care cuz she's not her normal self to say the least. The last mental health facility that did win a 180 day commitment. About a wk or two later I get a call and it's a fill in director and The usual director we dealt with went on vacation. Well the new dir. wanted to know what's going on with my moms case. She said my mom shouldn't be here it's not doing any good cuz my mom was refusing everything meds or tests like and they couldn't get the doc to sign for it. She has preliminary diagnosis of psychosis nos r/o dementia. It is now back to medical stuff. The new dir quickly got my mom discharged and helped us get her home with us. No forcing or anything like it. At our house I had to call the police several times and the first er visit ended up with them getting 14day commitment, which they did pretty quickly. This mental health facility was an hr away from us. My mom refused As per usual, was very agitated and zombieish. Barely talked to her on the phone since the first hospital in wa. She shut down. They got her to take meds a few times. Two weeks later the same thing is happening. First they ask my ideas on taking care of her etc. I told them, they appeared to consider it. Nope next morning papers filed for court that fri. The 21st of March. Taking more time off from new new job I went to court. My moms defense atty was amazing. First time one actually talked to me, cared about his client and was 'defending' my mom. The hospital gave my mom 'diagnosis' a day before court. But Alzheimer's dementia is not a legal reason for that person to be committed. The dr tried to use 'well maybe someday in the future she might step in front of a bus'. I was there yes but didn't testify. I was my moms ride. Yes the defense atty said who I am and yes I am willing to take my mom if she will go with me. I honestly didn't expect the outcome. And lmao they commitment people were all u said and more. I tried to be nice but slipped sometimes. More crying and questions. I found the discharge papers and wow they were planning on more testing etc just a couple days after court. They were so confident that they never told me the plans. They didn't give my mom the rx that she's supposed to take per papers. Not that she'd take them anyways.
And that sounds like a great idea. I hope they have let go of whatever attitude they have towards me. I was thinking to ask if there's some kind of outpatient order that would say she goes to her appts or she's back in the hospital. Like an employee picks her up here and takes her to appts. Cuz she will not go to any drs won't take any vitamins but the two she wants to. She needs to see a neuropsychologist or whoever can determine what's causing the psychosis symptoms to r/o medical fully. Worst case if I can't get help she will get sick enough and have to go. Which sucks. We have an appt with intake sr & disabled early June to see what programs she qualifies for. One of Which will hopefully have me be paid as caregiver, and no it's not about the money for any reason I'm doing this. But without it we are struggling so hard it's put stress on everyone. A little relief would be nice. So we shall see. I'm most worried that they will take what my mom says as fact and we will get looked at badly. Some of the things my mom says are damaging an hurtful and if the person who comes takes them as fact, that's bad news. I'm hoping this person isn't like the rest of the people with bad attitudes. It would be great if the intake person had a heart, rare but their around.
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Kamdushka I can't help feeling that you've gone about this in an ill-advised way. I've been trying to follow the course of events: is it correct, that you removed her from the psych unit against medical advice when they wanted to commit her for a further 180 days? And that a court of some sort found in your favour when the hospital tried to enforce her committal?

Never mind, be that as it may. The trouble is that your mother is incredibly ill, you have no idea why, and now you're finding it hard to get her to agree to see a doctor. She is presumably refusing because she is psychotic and/or demented (these are not mutually exclusive conditions). And meanwhile it is also very important that a number of other physical possibilities get excluded. And meanwhile you're under terrible stress yourself, and your husband - for understandable reasons - is folding his arms and not helping?

Oh brother, what a muddle.

Now then. Since they're the only people who seem to have had a proper plan, what I suggest (and don't just say no) is that you go back to the mental hospital - call them up and talk to them about where everybody goes from here. I expect they did make some derogatory remarks, I'm afraid - probably they were hopping mad, feeling very foolish, and therefore not minding what they said. Were you exquisitely polite about them at the time ??? :)

The point is, they might well be able to help you, and even more importantly help your mother. TALK to them, see if together you can all come up with a plan that will get somewhere, and ideally build a good working relationship. Best of luck
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Has a brain tumor been ruled out as a cause for her mental decline?
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I tried nami several times and they said since she has a 'diagnosis' of Alzheimer's nos dementia it's not a mental health problem. And I did find a copy of a poa she had made in 08 or 09 but I am already getting flack from the short sale people on her house in wa because it's a copy. And I did call the police on her when she had the edger and they took her to the er. But with the AD label I picked her up after a couple hours there and the social worker said they couldn't keep her. Short of fabricating a story I'm stuck. I love her more than anything but she is literally purposefully lying, stealing and being outright mean. Her memory is just fine she remembers what she wants. I've tested it. And in the last mental health hospital in Salem she scored 20/30 on the test they gave her which is good. I'm starting to think yes there's dementia and/or depression but observing her behavior and researching as much as I can the Alzheimer's just isn't fitting. The hospital thought so to and they had planned on more test MRI etc. They did not share any of that with me though. And they did not think that they would lose at court and she was free to go. The mental health people literally were so dumbfounded that they lost both said very derogatory remarks in front of me. This whole process through a broken system has been opposite of everything I've read or been told by others who've dealt with them. There's been on 'ok let's help your mom' no kind words and no thorough medical anything for her. The first medical hospital she was in for a week, (and worked as an RN for 10 yrs) could have done all the tests needed, she cooperated with them. But instead they did a few and then treated her like a crazy old lady that's always been this way. Then called me because they couldn't keep her anymore. I even told them that and her medical history, allergies etc and none of that was in her charts at anyplace. There was so much missing information it's nuts. My bruskness and persistence pissed them off and they took it personally like I was telling them they weren't doing their jobs etc. With no resources financial or otherwise and a system that only helps those that is broken, this has become unbearably hard.
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Do you have POA? You may need to pursue guardianship.
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I would go on the National Alliance for Mental Illness website (nami.org) and see if there is a local support organization in your area. The situation sounds to me as more mental health than senior services and I would seek help from folks who know the way to get help in your part of the country.
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Kam, this is a terrible situation for you. My heart goes out to you and your kids. That being said, you may need to abandon your mom to the state to get her the help she needs.
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Well no luck getting her into the dr. Did get her to the parking lot and a nurse even came out and talked to her. That was an interesting conversation. She told them she didn't make the appt and nothing's wrong with her and I look like her daughter but I'm not. And they can verify that with the police she talked to on her 'air phone' etc. She has become an obstinate child and will not cooperate with me period. She needs to see a dr ASAP and I cannot do anything about it. I've called so many drs offices to see if any make house calls and nothing.
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I totally agree and I would love to helpermom but she refuses. Have yet another appt for her the 21st. They have a neuropsych and more. And yes they have tried several different psych meds in the first hospital and the last. They made it worse. And made her feel doped up which she can't stand. One day at a time. Gonna try to be creatively persuasive. ;-)
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Hi Kamdushka. Please get your mom to a neuropsychologist who can write up an evaluation of her condition. When she was in care and being evaluated, did they try any medications to control her psychosis and delusions? There are some meds that work. Once you've been able to restore a measure of calm to all of your lives, you can look for other living arrangements for her. Good luck.
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Pamstegman that was a little more than harsh and unnecessary. And nana2nanny thanks I understand. But what isn't being addressed is the fact my mom has gotten better, a lot, and with this dizziness and buzzing and some more symptoms I am not giving up on her. And as far as my kids are concerned well I was looking for advice on ways to talk to them etc not blatant opinions. My kids are smart way beyond their years and understand to a point. And if I was the one they were taking care of I sure wouldn't want them just sticking me in an unfamiliar place with people I don't know only to let me slip into nothingness and despair. If I am giving the woman that always protected me even a day of being able to live happy and free, that is enough. Until she forgets her name etc is only when I decide what to do next. For me it's something I was taught, to help those who can't help themselves. And in her case, with all the details, which by the way haven't been given, knowing when and why she's in this state makes it impossible to just lock her up and throw away the key. I'm not that cold hearted. My husband was raised very differently and he himself endured immeasurable pain at a very young age, he is burned on 35% of his body. He had to deal with it from age 4. He learned to be self sufficient and strong and not rely on anyone and not whine or cry when something happens. He isn't a poor me person at all and doesn't tolerate it. But we've been married for 17 yrs and together for 20. And in his way he understands and eventually he concedes and atleast tries. And if I think only about how damaging this is to my kids I have lost the whole point of parenting. This is a life lesson and I do not shelter them from life. I include them and listen and make sure they are handling it. But for this situation that I couldn't ever prepare for I am not on top of my game yet. And I was hoping to hear from someone who is. And who would share their advice so I can learn for myself and my family. If my mom can slip into her own world without any family history then who says I can't? I have to prepare myself for that and prepare my family. My mom is not psychotic, she had symptoms of psychosis, conversing with voices and incorporating them into her way of coping. She literally lost everything she worked for her whole life in one year. Starting with her home. My mom has been a RN for 30+ yrs, owned properties and houses and has always been on top of her game. To feel out of control of eberythjng in her life made her lose hope in herself and the world. So she created her own happy world where everything that should have happened does. It's fascinating. And since I know her and know she hates being out of control of herself it scares the crud out of her. Maybe I put to many details allowing close minded opinions. I hope others can really listen to my story and give advice not judgement. There's always got to be one I guess. Thank you to those that have given helpful advice. I have enough of the 'u should
Not be selfish' family for that.
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I don't mean to sound harsh because trust me I know what you're going through. Its just after two and a half years of going through what you're going through and reading about what other caregivers have gone through I have discovered it's better just to get to the bottom line- hugs!
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Oh- ps- she isn't your husbands responsibility nor your children- hard lesson to learn- YOU SIGNED UP'
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I don't care how old you are or all the details because I am a seasoned caregiver to mom and one thing I have learned by experienced caregivers shoes- you will always be 16 in moms eyes and the older and more dependent she becomes- the more she is losing HET LIFE, her pride, her FUTURE- she has nothing to look forward to so she is hanging on to all she has left- the title of mom. If you cannot live with her respectfully and if you are not able to live happily and neither is she- even if its all her own mental capabilities at fault- call county services. Trust me- its better to move her close, visit every day, maintain as many of her personal needs in you- remember your childhood together and smile. All the details and all the answers with all the details is too much. Either bite your lip till it bleeds or make other arrangements ... I knew it was time when mom told me I couldn't go out after dark to dinner with my husband- I am 60 and married 40 years- and no amount of words could convince her that my age and grandmother status factored into HER decision- while banging her cane against a wall and screaming "listen to me young lady"!
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Considerable damage to the kids if she stays there much longer. Your mistake was taking her home when there is no room and she is psychotic. People who hear voices and brandish a lawn edger as a weapon do not belong near children. If you don't act soon, you may well lose the kids to CPS.
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Another huge issue is how do you balance family and caring for someone who doesn't know they need help. Since my husband is not supportive, well let me restate that, since my husband gives only the 'support' he sees as enough, now both my kids are confused and starting to look at the situation as nothing but a burden that's making their lives harder. And since she's been here I have found out who exactly is family and real friends. And sadly nobody has stayed in either category. Going as far as my sister in law completely putting me and my intentions down and saying I'm selfish and she feels sorry for my mom and I'm ruining my family over this, and she would have handled it all differently. How do I do something that I know my mom would do for me no questions asked. And my mom would have hog tied me and made me get help regardless of my state and refusal. Lol.
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Gardenartist, thank you for all the advice, it's very helpful. And I did call the agency on aging, but as usual, no drs list for home visits and no other resources. I also called drs offices and no drs make house calls anymore. I just don't understand how in all of Oregon with all their literature about elder this and elder resource that there literally is no programs for my situation that she 'qualifies' for. In addition to her voices and always thinking I and anyone else who disagrees with her is lying, I've only been able to get her out of the house a couple times in the last couple weeks. Almost everyday consists of her having everything packed on plastic bags and either piled up by the front door or outside. She says her 'husband' or one of his 4 other relatives that talk to her regularly are coming to take her 'home'. It was very hard to watch at first, never seeing my mom this way. Had many 'standoffs' as I call them in front of Safeway, the post office, both hotels, jack in the box. 10hrs once. Couple times ended with me having to call the local police and having her taken to the hospital and after the initial hold at Salem the cops became very helpful and just brought her home. Having to call the police on my mom was an experience I want to forget.
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Kamdushka, you might want to do a google search or contact your local Area Agency on Aging to see if they have lists of doctors who make home visits. You might also contact your various local hospitals' physician referral lines.

There are a couple such groups in my SE Michigan area.

Your mother may not appreciate what she may deem as an intrusion, but I really do think the dizziness and blacking out (syncopatic episodes?) need to be investigated. There could be a link to her behavior.

What you might also do is order her medical records and bloodwork records from all the facilities in the meantime, with the idea that if you can get her to go to a doctor to investigate the dizziness, he/she would have an opportunity to determine what has and hasn't been done.

From what I read, it sounds as if the problems were exacerbated by loss of her home, which is most certainly a traumatic episode.

It will likely cost you to get copies of the records, but it might be worth the cost to get to the bottom of the syncopatic episodes.
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Angel no my mom has never done any drugs and never drank more than a sip or two of a beer in her life. She's normally a very republican, opinionated, honest, hard working person. She does not like feeling out of control. But the last year has been such a stressful time I think she's just so deeply depressed the voices were the only thing she had. I have thought of committing her again but with the 'diagnosis', that by the way prevented the hospital from keeping her the last time I had to call the police when she threatened me with a lawn edger, and the overwhelming guilt I feel for even thinking it I am torn. And since she's made huge progress just being here I know I'm on the right track. But the financial and emotional burden is what's sinking my duty as her daughters life boat.

Gardenartist,
Yes she did have several 'black outs' and 'white outs' she calls them that a few resulted in her passing out. And in all the places she's been in they never noted any of those cuz she was done with them doping her up and treating her like just a crazy old lady. We do not have mental health issues in our family except for my grandma her mom who was severely depressed alcoholic that did have Alzheimer's dementia. And Salem hospital knew that cuz I made sure they did and that's where they got the 'diagnosis'. And yes I have though of creatively manipulating her to get her to the dr. The 3rd appt I've made is on the 21st if this month, we missed the other 2. But she is not as out of it as u would think. She's calculated with her lying and remembers only what she wants to. Her short term memory is very maticulousy filtered through to avoid anything negative or anything she doesn't agree with. I've tested it. And now finding out this new info with the dizziness is very very concerning. And all the research I've done shows there's somethjng major wrong. But even if I can 'get' her to the dr appt I can't 'make' her cooperate. Deep sigh. Stuck in a perpetual black hole.
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Has your mother seen an ENT, neurologist or other doctor for the buzzing in her ears, although from what you write it would probably be pretty hard to get her to agree to go to a doctor.

I wouldn't normally suggest this but perhaps you can tell her you're going to lunch, or someplace she'd like to go, and go to a doctor afterward.

The buzzing in her ears when bending over concerns me. Is she having falling episodes as well?

As to the home situation...that really sounds tough if your husband doesn't support you. Given his feelings on home care, does he realize that that could include him when/if the time comes?

Wish I had some better suggestions but right now I don't but I'm others will.
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There is no good way to ask this, but I'm just going to come out and say it. Does your mother drink or was she ever a heavy drinker? Her delusions and the buzzing in her ear make me think of either a heavy drinker, or someone who possibly takes too many pills (even asprin). Over time drinking and other excessive behaviors can be hard on the body and the brain. You could be seeing alcohol or drug induced dementia, or even brain damage from excessive use.

If this is not the case, it points to regular dementia, or a serious mental illness.

My advice is to have her involuntarily committed again, and refuse to take her home afterwards. You cannot care for someone in your home if they are not compliant.

Angel
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