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Went no contact on 1/3 for last time when I finally had to turn my 92 yr. old NPD mother with rapidly progressing dementia over to APS. Sheeeeees back! APS met with her and myself and it is apparent she is not oriented to person place and time...Refer to my other posts about her not remembering me ordering and paying for her online groceries and not getting reimbursed. In fact, she is now claiming she never got them! After the Jan 3 meeting, when the Sw finally was able to witness what I have been trying to endure, I informed her and my mother I could no longer bear her verbal and emotional abuse after doing everything humanly possible trying to keep her acclimated and safe enough to remain in her IL apt. Despite her fighting EVERYTHING we have tried to do for her over the years. No to hearing aid, no to emergency pendant, no to caption phone, no to meds, no to agreeing to me setting up MyChart for her, no to debit card, no to meals that she pays dearly for in her rent, and the list goes on and on. Even though I am POA for health and finances, but not activated because she refuses to cooperate or believe her Dr or take the medication he has prescribed for her anxiety. Nothing is ever right and I guess I "lie to her about everything" and am "selfish“ because I got remarried and go on a vacation once a year with my husband or to visit my kids and grandkids. She doesn’t believe that online grocery orders do not accept checks, but firmly believes that debit cards will lead to thieves (me?) stealing all her money and belongings. She did not remember the SW who met with us on Jan 3, and didn’t remember that I was there, too. Even though she had 2 meetings with the Social Worker in the past several weeks. Tonight, she blew up our phone but didn’t leave message. I finally I broke down and answered because I was afraid, she had a true emergency. She was crying, and I thought she was hurt. Noooooooo. She said SW told her she will need to go into Assisted Living if she can’t get her groceries or allow me to get a debit card. I calmly told her yes, that’s right. Her full-on NPD erupted, and I hung up. Last thing APS SW told me was that they were going to arrange Neuro Psych and possible guardianship which I have refused to agree to be. 15 plus years of beating my head against a brick wall and riding in the caboose of this clown train is more than enough and has ruined my physical and mental health, and at 68, I choose my marriage and my health over this never-ending sh**t show. I collected myself, and tonight sent a very carefully worded email to the SW and APS Director., with examples of her dementia related confusion and NPD related behaviors and lack of cooperation. I stressed that I knew caseloads are too big but SW has been very patient with my mother, even affirming my need to step away, but wondering what next steps will be, my mother is no longer oriented to person, place or time and thus, is a vulnerable adult at risk who needs protective services, There is a crisis looming for her because I am out of the picture. The fires I have tried to put out for her have now become an inferno and yet she remains in total denial. It breaks my heart that her stubbornness and jealousy of me and what she calls my " perfect life" (far from it ..both hubby and I have been in ICU with ongoing significant health issues ) and her needing to control everyone except herself ..denying over and over again that she needs help with her memory loss at this point and her refusal of help. She has created this nightmare for herself. The dementia is new. The untreated mental NPD illness has destroyed our family as far back as I can remember. I have now blocked her on our phone. She can call 911 if she needs help. I wanted to have a written record of my concerns. Hence the email. If I don’t get a response, I will copy it and send it certified. County may be wanting me to file the guardianship petition? Advice and prayers needed

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Tygr.

It looks like you have done all that you can do. As you said, a crisis is inevitable.

Take care of yourself. Live life with your husband and address the consequences of her actions when it happens.

It’s a shame that you are in this situation. I’m very sorry that you don’t have the ability to change your devastating circumstances.

Wishing you peace as you continue on this difficult path.
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"Even though I am POA for health and finances, but not activated because she refuses to cooperate or believe her Dr or take the medication he has prescribed for her anxiety."

Pls read the PoA document. In most cases what is required is 1 or 2 diagnosis of incapacity (not whether your Mom "cooperates" or "believes" or takes her medication).

That being said, you must recognize that you can't rescue an uncooperative, untrusting person. The actual way she will get helped may be if you resign your PoA completely, end contact for a while and allow the county to become her guardian. The county guardian will make things happen (been there, done that with my SFIL). It literally cannot be worse than what's been going on to date. The county will get her into a facility and she'll receive the care and protection she needs. And you will have boundaries and can visit her if you wish.

You are not responsible for her happiness. You don't have to suffer her mistreatment. It's been proven that the current "rescue plan" is ineffective for both her and you. Time for a different solution.
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So very sorry for the awful road you’ve endured. Sorry you didn’t have the mother you needed and deserved. And sorry that your many efforts haven’t helped. I’m so glad you sent that email and blocked the calls. Time for some serious self care. You can truly say you’ve done all a person can, it’s just not fixable or even able to be made better. Move forward with your husband and family, surround yourself with positive experiences. I wish you healing and peace
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I think with POA and a doctor's evaluation you can go ahead and place her in care, probably memory care, as she seems a bit combative. She won't like it. So what? She doesn't like anything.
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JoAnn29 Jan 2023
Better she allow the State to take over. They will get Mom placed alot faster.
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Thank you everyone. Your words mean so much. I have felt so alone in this for so long. Rationally, I know there is no reason on earth for me to feel guilty ..not for what I have been forced to finally do..but for the times she has broken me down and reduced me to arguing back and some of the hurtful words I have also lobbed back over the years ..but most of all, for my hatred of the woman who tormented and bullied my wonderful loving dad ...who was wheelchair bound but still loved my brother and I so much, and so unconditionally..and still was so self sufficient and fended for himself as much as possible to escape her venom. She isolated him from his family , lied to them that he was too sick to talk to them when they called...and gave the laptop my brother bought for him so he could communicate with his sister in California, to Goodwill , while he was sleeping. She has had almost 11 years to create the new life she said she couldnt wait to have after he died.. ...she was so resentful of his illness..but she has chosen to wallow in a pity pot of anger and manipulation with me as her new target. And pawning herself off as his grieving widow. Such an actress. I have not finalized therapy because of some medical bills but know I now have to seek help to stay strong. I know there are lots more rocky days ahead. I do want to get to a place of forgiveness and healing.My dad would want that for both me and my brother. Bless you all.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
It’s hard. Family dynamics are very complex. Best wishes to you!
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Do not, whatever you do, accept guardianship or POA or anything else. That holds you responsible. You need the STATE and APS and the COURTS to assign responsibility of the state to care for your Mom ongoing. And it needs to be "I CANNOT do it" not "I WILL NOT do it". You need to make it clear that you are in no wise able to deal with your Mother because of your own physical and mental limitations, and that you are requesting a quardianship by assigned to the state in her case.
Did I already recommend Liz Scheier's book to you. It's a Memoir called Never Simple. You NEED to read this book so you see what it is like to try for a LIFETIME to assist a mother who is incompetent due to mental challenges. Neither Ms Scheier nor the entire system of the city and state of New York ever managed to do a whole lot, no matter how hard they all tried.
Not everything can be fixed.
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tygrlly1 Jan 2023
Thanks Alva..i did read synopsis of this book online and tucked it away in my overwhelmed brain for now....I could probably write my own book on why some women should never become mothers..and how men should run like hell from them..Of course, we all know how expertly and easily Narcissists fool people ....I have made it extremely clear, verbally, in writing and on voicemail that I will not assume guardianship. I have to keep reminding myself that her tears on the phone yesterday turned off like a switch to a tirade when I didnt give in..as hard as it is.
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I worked in healthcare and used to hear conversations from social workers that many, many family members were "estranged" Do not worry, those NPD patients will eventually get placed. And sure they can be a headache to staff, including me sometimes, but I get to go home at the end of my shift.
You are doing the right thing. Do not feel guilty
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mrsharper52210 Jan 2023
Thank you for reminding me of the fact that you all get to go home and not carry this daily burden. I am trying to grapple with a similar situation and this is a good reminder.
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You do not have to take on guardianship. For one thing, its expensive and you then have to answer to the State yearly. A friend wanted to give up her guardianship for a cousin because of her health and husbands ALZ and the State would not allow her. It turned out to be a fight. Tell them NO! My physical and mental heath will not allow it. The State will have to file for guardianship. You are washing you hands of Mom. There is no more you can do for her.

No guilt please, you have done everything you can to help this woman. Forgiveness...maybe because being Narcissistic is a personality disorder a mental illness? Maybe because she now suffers from Dementia you can forgive because maybe she had no control over herself. But you will never forget. You forgive for you not for her but that maybe a longtime coming. You Dad could have left her and taken you kids. Never understood why men or women put up with this treatment. I rather be alone.

Once APS takes over, you will have the weight taken off your shoulders. Mom will be safe, fed, clean and get her meds on time. A guardian will be responsible for her care, the state requires a yearly review. You can then take a deep breath and never have anything to do with her again. She has brought this all on herself. You don't slap the hand that tries to help you all the time. Eventually that hand will pull away. You will wonder why you didn't do this long ago.
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The looming crisis will be handled by the SW. They know what's going on with your mother, she's on their radar with her decline in cognition, thank God, and even affirming YOUR need to stay out of the picture.

You know, it appears to me that these elders who had personality disorders and mental illnesses their whole lives wind UP with dementia later on in life! I don't think it's a coincidence, either. My mother was always in need of some serious medication her whole life, but never took it, of course, she 'didn't need it'. She was a raving lunatic, as a result, which later translated to dementia in her mid 80's. My aunt, same thing (mom's sister). We read about this here on AC ALL THE TIME too. Oh my mom is bipolar or NPD and now has dementia in her old age. Coincidence? I don't think so! I think mental illness turns INTO dementia/AD later on in life. It's a natural progression. If medical science would study that subject, I'll betcha $100 they'd find the correlation! Not that this helps YOU in any way, just something to ponder.

So I'm not surprised that your NPD mother who's been SO difficult and horrible her whole life is now suffering from dementia, not at all. I think your life has been ruined enough so far with all you've tried to do for her and now it's time for social services to take over and get her placed appropriately. What else CAN you do? You cannot force this woman to suddenly 'see the light' or start acting normal, certainly not now that dementia has destroyed her brain!

Don't feel guilty. Feel sad, but not for too long. You've been emotionally taxed here for too long, my friend. Yes it's sad that she's gone down this road, but it will soon be handled for you that she'll be in managed care and SAFE, fed, bathed, clothed, and that lets you off the hook FINALLY for worrying 24/7 about her welfare.

Just give yourself some grace and a bit more patience. One day at a time, right? Sending you a big hug and a prayer for peace.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
That would be a fascinating study, Lea. I think there could be a correlation.

Mom suffered with depression while enduring her Parkinson’s disease, which is certainly understandable.

Whenever she was asked if she was depressed by her doctor, she said, “No.” Depression can accompany Parkinson’s disease.

I wish that mom would have taken meds instead of feeling embarrassed to admit depression.

Their generation isn’t always open about discussing mental health. There was a stigma attached in their day, which is sad.

Dementia will develop with some Parkinson’s disease patients. All of these situations are complicated because they affect everyone differently.
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You are in my thoughts Tygrlly.

I imagine you will feel grief & start on another step into some mentally letting go territory.

Although such a serious & stressful situation, your 'clown train' description made me smile. That train will either stay on course, or take the branch line to AL or MC. It will stay on the tracks or even derail. If so, that too will pass.

Sometimes if I catch myself in a worry loop it helps me to picture the worst options. I imagine the full derailment is something like Baker Act & transfer to a Geri psych rehab ward. But.. then evaluations & reviews happen. Meds are trialled. A new residence is chosen & new pathways/rails appear. Your Mother's fighting spirit will be evident. That's ok too.
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An update..my dear friends on here..I heard from the APS SW this afternoon..Neuropsych scheduled for 1/25...guardianship will proceed, without me accepting assignment to it, and once again SW was very compassionate and affirming that I have done all I can. She agrees that something significant is going on with moms cognition and memory..in fact she told SW that her twin sister is bringing her groceries..twin sister ( who was very lovely and cooperative with her sons right up until she died peacefully ) died 2 years ago. She also told SW that she felt we can afford to buy her groceries because we go on vacations twice a year! Sw feels she is not at danger of going hungry and I should stand firm and continue no contact and no groceries. ...there is a bistro menu there if she doesnt like what is being served. As far as incontinence pads, because she is currently still in Independent Living , facility would not provide those , so I offered to keep ordering them online and have them delivered anonomously ..SW said to keep track of cost and guardian will reimburse me once court appointed . I can certainly live with that. I feel once again that I can breathe ..for now. I do agree that untreated personality disorders seem to increase and magnify the onset of dementia. Thanks to all of you for throwing me a life line. We all need to keep picking each other up for our inevitable falls on this difficult road. Hope your Friday the 13th is uneventful! Hugs . Thank you
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SnoopyLove Jan 2023
So glad to hear this! Good.
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I am glad all seems to be working out.
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My 92 year old mom was taken to hospital last night after fall.. no broken bones , but she is severely confused and fell due to what seems to be spacial disorientation. Since I have basically gone no contact due to her refusing all assistance from me and years of abusive behavior toward me and my husband , I have limited it to calling her once or twice a week to make sure she is ok. She did not mention any issues to me, but is now describing reaching for things and not making contact with her hand,for the past week or so, as well as arm weakness and dizziness. My Power of Attorney was activated today after neurocognotive eval by both hospital and our local County APS agency. After seeing her so frail and scared, I had a change of heart and decided to try taking on POA, rather than a drawn out court appointed guardianshipwith a stranger. Shes still .p my mom, despite our tumutuous history. Next step I am advocating for a rehab stay to rebuild her strength, more eyes on her to assess, and then probably move to Assisted Living unit where she currently lives in Independent Living. She has been crying all day about giving up her Independent Apt..Drs feel she is still very capable of doing her ADLS safely, but has no concept of finances , and very impaired short term memory..and a potential repeat fall risk due to the spacial disorientation . No sign of stroke. Best case scenario per Dr recommendation would be to remain in her own apt with help coming in, but her senior community most likely will not feel comfortable with that. Im waiting to meet with Director. Drs feel that she is not at a memory care level yet..but Assisted Living is probably in her not too distant future. Someone told me I am starting to experience a journey of grief..I guess thats why Im feeling so broken hearted . I picked up her checkbook and important papers from her apartment, which she keeps neat as a pin and loves so much. This is so hard. I thought being POA would clear a path but bringing up a lot of very sad feelings and even guilt .along with regret that we have had so much discord these past several years, and probably my whole life due to her Narcissism. Wondering if God has presented an opportunity to rebuild a new beginning? Shes pretty mad right now but seems to be accepting the inevitable..at least at this moment....This is so hard.
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T, I think you are letting your big heart overtake your brain.

Yes, mom is frail, disoriented and mad.

That doesn't mean that she is going to have a "change of heart" about EVERYTHING being your fault,.

Did you read Liz Scheier's Never Simple?

Please let APS do its job. If you persist in trying to win your mother's approval for changes like moving to AL, getting a debit card and getting groceries delivered, you will create the 7th circle of Hell for you both.

I remain an advocate for stepping graciously aside.
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sp19690 Jan 2023
I agree Barb. This is very sound advice. Unfortunately no matter how much we want something it isnt always possible, especially when someone is mentally ill like the OPs mother.
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I’m sorry, but this is not the “new beginning” of a healthy relationship that you’ve understandably longed for. This is another step in the decline of your mother, but not a change of her base personality or tendencies. If you choose to proceed as POA, do so with caution and distance. Don’t present the move to AL as a choice to mom, but a change that is happening. Don’t discuss taking over finances. Protect yourself and be prepared to step aside again. I wish you the best
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tygrlly1 Jan 2023
Met with Drs , Assisted Living snd social workers this morning. She is even more confused. Because my POA activated the Drs state she needs CBRF care. It is the State LawWisconsin. If it becomes too detrimental to me I will rescind and walk away again. Rehab staff will present her need for Assisted Living to to her. Two of her friends fell in the past month and are now living where she will be moving onto the Assisted Living unit. I’m well aware that my heart is fighting with my head but keeping boundaries and advocating for her safety so I can step away again. . I have her checkbook and will be having all statements forwarded to me and obviously not announcing that to her. Trying to navigate waters that became too fast too quickly.I am certainly not trying to win her approval. That ship sailed 68 years ago !
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I myself would resign my POA and ask the social workers to turn Mom over to the state to manage. This will NOT be easy and I caution you to contact an elder care attorney to do this. You currently ARE the POA whether you act as one or not, and you clearly recognize that your Mom doesn't seem (to you) competent in her own care. That alone means that you should be doing the POA now whatever that takes whether Mom wants that or not, and you should likely be placing her (difficult as THAT would be given her behavior).
As I see this as no win for you I believe should resign your POA by writing a letter to Mom and copies to her MD and Social Services person so they are aware there is currently no one to act for Mom.
I would not then be shopping for her, or basically anything else as this is enabling her current situation.
Sorry to be so tough love, but you are in a very iffy situation here with a fiduciary duty to act for someone who is in your own opinion unable to act competently for herself.
As you never have acted on the POA you should have a very carefully worded resignation of any duty to act in future. I would see an attorney and tell them what you have told us.
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Tygrilly, I want to re-word something that I wrote earlier.

When I talked about "approval", I don't mean you seeking to win your mom's approval and validation.

I'm talking about the fact that as POA, you are acting on her behalf, ostensibly at her direction.

I would not be comfortable acting as Power of Attorney for someone who has previously accused me of theft of funds.

As POA, all it takes is for one of her "flying monkey" friends to call APS, believing her fantastical stories about how evil you are, and you end up accused of theft/fraud/financial abuse. You then incur legal bills defending yourself.

Your mother is NEVER going to "get" that you are using HER money for HER benefit. She is ALWAYS going to act in an abusive manner. Just as she did with your sweet father.

That's why I would step away now and let the State of Wisconsin take over.
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I guess I am extremely lucky to be working with a top rate ( and very patient) team of Drs, Assistant Living professionals , hospital Social Workers , and our local County Adult Protective Services team on this new journey...My mom will be moving into the Assistant Living CBRF unit in a studio apartment in the same Senior Living Comminity she has lived in for the past 6 years. Rehab first needed per Drs, as she is weak and needs strengthening and more assessment of her spatial disorientation. I have been referred to a top rate Geriatrician to manage her ongoing care once she is settled. There will be no more grocery shopping as she will get all her meals there and she has no kitchen. Her delerium this morning was very scary and rapid. Not sure what type of dementia is presenting..but her twin sister passed away 3 years ago in Assisted Living CBRF with similar rapid onset dementia and confusion........except twin sister did not have the same history of narcissism and was generally quite pleasant. As for," flying monkeys" , I am confident that my impeccable record keeping and well documented history of her behaviors on record and through ongoing firsthand observation with APS , and my converstaions with her bank and updates will serve me well if,there are ever any allegations of financial wrong doing. I am a retired Social Worker and familiar with all the pitfalls that I know could , and probably will be ahead. At the end of the day, my goal is to look past our difficult past history for what I know will be a very difficult conversation and move ..but to know that I am doing the right thing to keep her safe and me sane. Thank you all for your feedback...please keep your prayers coming.
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You did the right thing, tygrlly1. On this forum I often see these wise words,

'Don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm'.

You're doing exactly what you should. Your mother cannot live on her own anymore and the only way your POA will become active where you can have her forced into AL or even memory care, is there will have to be a crisis.
Nothing gets a senior a one-way ticket to a nursing home faster than being stubborn. Unfortunately, so many of our beloved elders have to learn the hard way.
You're 68 years old. Far too old to be dealing with this nonense. You're doing the right thing. No guilt and dont second guess yourself.
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tygrlly1 Jan 2023
God bless your affirming words. I walked into her hospital room this morning and she was happily describing that she had just gotten back from her bus outing with her friends to a casino up north, wonderful brunch and ham dinner. The CNA came in and mom introduced her as her bus buddy. Wink wink from CNA to me.. Later however mom turned mean when asked to walk with PT and begged me to take her home and that she will pay le ahead of tome for groceries ( will no longer be needed) Tore my heart up....The nurses and SW have been so wonderful. Waiting for a bed to open up at sub acute rehab which will give my hubby and I time to get her new room ready. The community director there is relaxing the long private pay period so she will hopefully qualify for Family Care sooner if she outlives her money, as she has already lived there 6 years. My mom asked how my dad was ( passed away 10 years ago). She was able to order her own lunch, however , and thanked the dietary aide for not charging her. Maybe she will have to go to Memory Care if this is not temporary related delirium? I knew a crisis was looming..just not this quickly...I know this is the right path..and at 92 she has fiercely hung on to her "independence"...and I hope this will be a blessing in disguise. Some of the ladies she sat next to at lunch ( when she was still going) and at bingo now live on that unit...and she is eating up the extra attention at the hospital ..praying hard.
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Tygrlly, wishing you all the best on this heart-wrenching journey.

They've ruled out a UTI, yes? And her electrolytes aren't out of whack?

((((Hugs))))
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tygrlly1 Jan 2023
Yes....everything checks out....no UTI..all lab values are perfect and luckily no broken bones. Physically weakness and dizziness which is why Dr ordered sub acute rehab today..just waiting for a bed to open up in next day or so. Thank you for hugs...sorely needed..its been rough so far. Guess my heart wasnt as hardened as I claimed ..despite all those awful years of dealing with her.......maybe thats a good place for me to come to..for forgiveness and healing... Thank you
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Keep breathing.
One day at a time.
We are here. 💙
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tygrlly1 Jan 2023
Trying to remain strong and positive ....mom seemed much more calm today..still periods of measurable confusion but more pleasant and cooperative with staff. She seems to be exhibiting sundowning either from new delirium or existing dementia...last night she was very upset and wanted to leave the hospital because she saw empty drawers and closet. I had put a few street clothes away in a top drawer there and showed her which drawer they were in severl times but she didnt remember that because she didnt know that she was at a hospital ...she thought all her belongings were stolen from apt and pictures taken off her walls . Staff then made a big white board saying that she was at the hospital , that Daughter ( me) had all her important papers and checkbook ( which I show her several times a day to reassure her) when I visit. She then thanked me for being her "bookkeeper". Told me she loved me and loved my husband. So Im praying that she has forgotten all the angry words spoken over the past year. I just need to work on forgiving myself
for being so disgusted and broken by her behavior and narcissism, culminating in going no contact after Thanksgiving and thinking about how she was alone over Christmas. I feel so guilty and ashamed and waiting to hear from therapist to help me deal with this grief..Im not naive enough to think that there will not be heartbreaking peaks and valleys ahead. or that she has somehow acquired a new loving personality..Rehab will not evaluate her until the sundowning is controlled ( the wanting to leave part) . Dr is trying new medication that is a bit safer and not in the sleeping pill category. Today I met an RN who also works with elderly hospitalized dementia patients there and charge nurses and aides to try more non med interventions to decrease factors that may lead to sundowning , such as soothing music, touch therapy, blinds drawn and brighter lights in room after dusk, etc. Blessed to have such a great hospital support system...Yes, keep breathing..one day at a time ..for both mom and me. At the end of the day, today is all we have..yesterday cannot be undone , but we can try to make tomorrow better...Thank you Beatty.
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Tygrilly,

I am so sorry that you are going through this. It’s good to read that you are satisfied with the hospital and staff. That is a great comfort. I always feel better when I feel like my family members are receiving the best care possible.

Sending many hugs your way.
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It will be okay. You have given her your best and she doesn't want it or acknowledge it. That is okay. You are okay. You have other responsibilities like your husband, kids and grandkids.

Ignore her taunts about your perfect life. She's just lashing out trying to make you miserable so that she can be queen bee to you again. Don't allow it by addressing any of her taunts.

Turn over her care to someone else. Even if she gets dementia, her behaviors might not change for the better. It might change for others, but it may never change for you. You have better things to do with your time and energy than focusing it somewhere that it can be abused.

Each night and during the day, pray for strength and wisdom to make the correct decisions. Pray for strength and wisdom to recognize and recover from making any not-so-correct decision. Pray for strength and wisdom to use your energy where it is wanted and to have the strength to recognize and move on when your energy is not wanted.

When you feel like you are going to lose it with her, thank yourself that you caught yourself in time (gratefulness), and then try and do one of the mindfulness exercises. By doing one of the mindfulness exercises just before you are going to lose it, you move your mind to something different, so that when you get back to the emergency at hand, your body has had a tiny rest from the emergency and you can deal with the rest of the emergency better. There is actually some science behind this type of action.

Many prayers and hugs. Life does have these very rocky patches. Your life is yours. Don't give up your power, energy and life to someone who doesn't value it.
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