My parents are aging and in need of care but they have left a big problem that will continue after their death. Looking for advice.

I’m sorry that I’m not sure how to guide you...but I hear elder law attorneys set up what is called a “Special Needs Trust “ . Somewhere along the way, he lost direction & his ambition. Parents didn’t give him ultimatum. Is he parents caregiver? Can he get paid through CDPAP program to be his parents caregiver? I’m giving you some ideas but I’m not really sure. He needs professional help to get motivated & also could use help updating resume. Atty can also put house in Trust so Medicaid can’t count it...I wish I had better answers....
Hugs 🤗

You really need to talk to them about seeing an attorney to get their affairs in order and make the concern mostly about your brother. If this home continues to be the place where your brother lives and gets all of his room/board/misc, it is highly unlikely they will ever agree to sell the home because it would mean brother has no home any longer (in their minds). You could go over the 'what if's' with them so they can see if something happened right now and he got one chunk of money, he would end up homeless if he could not make the money last. Since your dad seems to still be with the here and now, have the conversation with him alone (if possible).

I don't intend to sound mean but, it's not your problem or within your control. Let it go and just love them while you have them here.

Life may be preparing a huge butt kick to your brother!

If not disabled, so be it.

If disabled, a sit-down chat with Dad & professional advice, legal, social work etc.

If your parents are massive enablers, unwilling to make plans & expect you to step into their boots - I do feel for you. That pressure is mine & I am seeking councelling to assist.

You sound like a caring soul. I am glad you have started to get help - it may be a long or short road but you want to be still walking along as your parents age & health changes, not crushed under a steamroller your brother will drive over you.

I’m going to share something that I have learned with CERTAINTY this last year. I’m 48 almost 49 and this has made a HUGE difference in my growth as a person.

You ready? Here it is.

Never take on the emotional work someone else didn’t do and allow it to become your burden.

I would like to add something here that may have been said but if so, I missed it. I am a firm believer and have had life's experiences and I have seen so much, my brain is stunned at the foolishness and lack of concern and preparation by people. Here is my take on this. When you have parents or other family members, regardless of the relationship status between all of you, each person with an ounce of common sense MUST prepare for the future by keeping their affairs in good shape and current and making their wishes known, drawing up proper paperwork, etc. The trouble is that many people for some unknown reason just simply refuse to do this - so nothing gets done. The other family members can try to correct that status but no matter what is done, nothing happens. I believe when this happens there is only ONE solution. If no action is taken and won't be taken, then you MUST WALK AWAY. I know that is hard if you love someone but you can't make them do things and you can't fix things. So, YOU will suffer because YOU will have to deal with the fall-out and why should if they don't do their part. Leave, go on with YOUR life. It is NOT your problem - it is THEIR PROBLEM.

I'm 52 years old and I've had multiple job offers in the last two years. Age is an excuse. I'm not saying that some employers don't discriminate against age - it does happen- but it's also still possible to find employers who do not care about age. Age is also a frame of mind. He is perfectly capable of getting a job if he is motivated, has a good attitude, appears professional and keeps his skills up-to- date. But if he feels "too good" for the academic setting, why doesn't he freelance? Become a freelance writer or researcher or author. With the Internet, anything is possible. If he wants to work, there is a way. My guess is he doesn't want to work at all, which leaves me wondering what he does all day? Play video games? Watch TV? That's sad and depressing. It could be that your brother has never been forced to take care of himself so he's never needed to be motivated. The fear of starving or being homeless is what motivates most people to go earn an income. For most of us over a certain age, our parents expected us to work and be out of the house by the time we graduated high school or college. And we WANTED TO, many times because our parents were too strict and we wanted our freedom. It sounds like your parents created a nice, easy environment for him that was too good to leave.

We may be faced with a similar issue in my family - a freeloading member living with an elderly parent. When the time comes, her house will be sold and that individual will have to fend for themselves. It's a simple as that. Whatever profit comes from the house is supposed to be split among siblings but there are seven sibs and the house is in awful condition so there won't be much to split.

I agree with others here that you have no obligation to your sibling. He had one job to do and that was to take care of himself as an adult. If he is mentality and physically capable, there is no excuse for not supporting himself financially.

1. Brother NOT your responsibility. My experience as follows. My brother was living on the back porch of my parents house. Long story short, when I moved back to state they live in, I had alot of cleaning up to do including bills etc. Finally got brother out of thier lives for a few years until he got sober. Which took many years, but to protect my parents he had to be gone! He went through struggles including homeless and we had to left him hit rock bottom so he had no way to go but up. (So much craziness. .could write a book )
2.Need a trust ASAP. ..focus only on parents!!! Need something very soon while has some lucid moments to sign. Get on top of parents medical. Call all doctors ,financial institutions, etc. If you really want to help you, have to commit to it. They need help.

Regarding your brother I think he’s lucky to have a kind sibling thinking of him at such a time.

I got my parents talking about wills, POA, and what they wanted when I told them I wanted to do mine. It broke down that wall of don’t discuss such things. Or the “not yet syndrome” I was fortunate enough to be caring for an uncle who’s own Will was so out of date he was leaving money to 3 people who had already died - which also helped them realise the importance of doing one and checking it regularly.

Since that might not be an option - could you suggest that you’d like to know their wishes since they are in their 80’s - what they want finance and health wise should they suddenly become ill. Remember to mention that wills and POA’s are about ensuring their wishes are carried out rather than decided by a court because they hadn’t made it legally binding.

They should be very proud of you, you are thoughtful and compassionate

If your parents won't consider making out a will or setting up an estate plan, that may be the best plan for your situation. When both parents are gone, their assets will be divided evenly amoung the three heirs. Everyone goes their separate ways. Your responsibility is to yourself and not your brothers. Is that too simplistic, or am I missing something here?

"Currently they own a home worth about 500k which they plan to sell for their own eldercare" - don't forget all the costs involved in selling a home - staging and repairs before sale, then closing costs, commissions, taxes (possibly capital gains), etc. They won't end up with 500K. Just something to keep in mind.

In addition to the other comments, esp Countrymouse's suggestion to send a letter explaining/suggesting what needs to be done and perhaps explicitly saying you are not expecting anything from them, they need to consider these situations:

1) if mom needs extra care, such as MC or NH, it will deplete their assets
2) if dad becomes ill or dies, mom will need a LOT of care sooner, depeleting assets even faster
3) if the plan is to sell the house so they can pay for AL/MC/NH, that WILL get sucked down quickly, especially if it isn't properly invested in a trust - there may BE no inheritance to worry about for Blunder Boy
4) if they die with no will before or after the house is sold (if there ARE still assets), it can take TWO YEARS or sometimes even MORE for it to all get through probate courts, so BLUNDER BOY will have NOTHING coming in for all that time.

Get dad to understand the issues at hand, which only impact him, your mom and your brother, if that's how they want it. THEN wash your hands of the whole business.

You have no obligation to care for a grown-*ss man. While it is nice of you to want to help your parents, despite their behavior towards you when suggesting they stop enabling him, you also have no real obligation to help them. You have offered, you can try making a final plea via a written letter, but there's no point to fretting or worrying about their situation if they are not willing to work with you.

As for Blunder Boy, if his thought process is so godly, perhaps it can pay his bills and feed him!!!

IMHO, GardenArtist was spot on!

There is more than Sonny to worry about. $500k, if that much can be realized on the sale, would not support them in Eldercare particularly if Mother's memory problems become dementia requiring nursing care. What happens if Dad goes first? How much is Mom left with and where would she live? Are they living on their pensions and Social Security now, and what happens to those income sources? I don't see any way that they could keep paying Sonny's expenses. I must admit I don't know how they are making ends meet now unless Dad is working still, or has an outside income. They could take a reverse mortgage on the house which would be in Dad's name, but if he dies that mortgage is due and payable and the house is lost. There appear to be too many 'What if's' and unknowns and I don't believe I can offer any advice.
Sorry!

Kft, your profile says that you have a conflict problem with your mother, who you say has an impaired memory. One approach to this situation could be to talk to your father about the situation if he were to die first, suddenly from a heart attack. At present with no will, he will die intestate. I don’t know the law where you are (and probably neither he nor you do either), but normally if the house is in joint names, mother will automatically own it on his death. If not, everything in his estate falls into the intestacy, where the usual split is half to the spouse and the other half divided equally between the children. This usual split can be changed by the court, in the same way and on the same grounds that a will can be challenged by someone who wants additional consideration.

Without your father’s care, your mother will be unable to deal with the house sale, will presumably need to go to a facility almost immediately, and will start incurring the massive bills we all know so well. Her needs may well be treated by the court as needing more immediate consideration than those of your brother – he would probably need that ‘autism’ diagnosis to get much sympathy from the court. Your brother’s fraction to be inherited by the usual rules won’t amount to much anyway.

So you can put it to your father that if he were to die suddenly and unexpectedly, your mother would be in a complete mess and your brother would be in trouble too. He shouldn’t want to plunge the whole family into a complex court case in addition to grief for him, serious problems in caring for your mother’s needs, family stress in clearing out the house, and no considered provision at all for your brother. His pride about caring for your mother might be enough to get him to go to a lawyer, if only to check out whether you are telling him is right. (And this would be the exact truth in many if not most jurisdictions, other than those based on community property.)

Perhaps you could copy this into a letter, saying this is what you have been told by a lawyer somewhere else (true). It is a good statement of the ‘big problem’ he is setting up. Good luck!

It sounds to me like the brother has a personality disorder or some kind of mental illnes. I doubt that he has autism.

kft4502, I read your post yesterday, thought about it a lot, and decided to offer my opinion and experience, with qualifications:

1.  I haven't read all the posts here but skimmed through some of them.
2.  I write from personal experience as well as that of others who've addressed similar problems.
3.  It is not my intention to be rude or critical, but to offer insights into directions different from those (a) I would have taken a few years ago, and (b) which are based on experience of others in a situation like this.

I've become aware of people who may be geniuses or extremely smart in their own rights, but incapable of functioning as self sustaining or self sufficient individuals.    They may have eidactic memories, they may be brilliant, but they often have other qualities that act against even modestly functioning in society.

a.    They believe, and may be, geniuses.    But their arrogant attitude and condescension of others prevents them from getting and keeping jobs, and getting along with others.

b.   They are absolutely resolute  in their superiority and completely unwilling to consider that anyone can offer them advice or insight equal to or superior than their own. 

c.    They often direct their contempt toward women, including family members, and co-workers.

d.    They are unwilling to change.

e.    They can't get along with co-workers because others are so "stupid." 

f.     Although I don't know what the mental health issues might be of these people, there's one overriding attitude:  they don't need to change b/c  they're sooooo smart, they're right and others are wrong.

g.   They either legitimately can't change, or don't feel it necessary.   I have no medical or scientific support for this, but I think the mental balance is high on the brilliant side and low if not non-existent on the practical side.   Some of these guys are literally geniuses, but they can't even  manage their own income.  

g.    So it's useless to think that any changes are possible.   And that includes caring for older parents, treating siblings respectfully, supporting themselves, pulling their own weight, or contributing to family activities.  

It's better for siblings to recognize this and don't consider trying to rehab them, or expect them to think rationally and take care of themselves. 

Estate planning:  they will expect to get as much as they can, w/o contributing anything, including care to the parents.      One way to address this is to structure a trust that does NOT provide them any cash, but pays funds on their mortgage, or utility bills.  A trustee should handle this, and a good trust attorneys can set this up.  Keep control of asses away from them. 

This may be the best way to approach your parents, i.e., caring for this son after they're gone.  Create the mechanisms now so they're in place when your parents are gone.

The men will not be grateful though.  Don't expect any gratitude.    And you may wish to sever relations after your parents are gone.     Otherwise, you'll be stuck caring for someone who is used to relying on others to provide support for him.   

I don't think these kinds of brilliant but impractical people are practically capable of caring for themselves, so this should be the focus of estate planning.   A trust can ration disbursements, but when the financial assets run out, these individuals are going to have to fend for themselves.   And that's NOT your problem, even if this man is your brother.  

Regardless of how much you try to help, you'll never be able to meet your brother's desires.   Recognize that, and move on when you're ready.  Otherwise, obligations will be a noose around your neck. 

And he is NOT your responsibility.    While it's understandable that you are concerned for a sibling, recognize that this would be for the rest of your life, since he's also being enabled when people reach out to provide the care and support he's unwilling or unable to provide for himself.   

Funny thing, we had the same odd dynamic in our family. For some reason, everyone seemed to think my parents were obligated to support my jobless brother. When I stepped in to help my mother, I was treated to rants and threats of lawsuit because I wasn't also helping a medically and emotionally fit 47 year old man. He managed (quelle surprise!) to pull it together and get a job when it became clear Mom would no longer be sending him thousand dollar checks each month. Happily that was a court ordered thing because my syblings, to this day, believe he had some sort of right to financial support. Families have their own little mythologies and there isn't any sense to them. If I were you, I'd hear the advice you are getting on this board and cut the brother loose. It's for his own good.

Brother--your bother will not qualify for SSDI Disability if he has not worked.
Disability works as an insurance, meaning FICA in layman's terms works as payment towards the premium.Never worked = SSI, which is asset based for eligibility.

Your parents will be advised to move their primary home into an irrevocable trust, or minimally deed it to all of the siblings, whilst retaining rights to live inside that home, while they're alive.

Since your youngest brother is renting, ask your parents why they aren't paying his rent towards a mortgage, with the house deeded in an irrevocable trust with all of the offspring as beneficiaries, to keep that house out of their "estate" to qualify them for Medicaid when they need a nursing home.

A nursing home will get everything, of that 500k, which is normal for U.S. retirement plans Overseas, Brits are allowed to pass their stuff onto the next generation while receiving government assistance, to hopefully keep the next generation off the doles (welfare).

500k will pay for a few years, since $10,000/month is a typical monthly nursing home charge. Which equates to to Medicaid, as the payer for their end-time inside a nursing home. Which will best occur inside a nursing home with both private and medicaid payers.

As you mentioned your parents are not considering real-life factors, and have created a man-child, who needs to be assessed for Asperger's, if he is mentally challenged then he might qualify for something, which might open-up eligibility for placement into an institution (Kennedy eradicated those in the 60s, due to the abuse his sister endured). Otherwise, you have a hot mess unfolding and will need to consult with your other siblings and possibly have your parents declared mentally "incapacitated," so their best interests can be collectively addressed.

If you can get him assessed as disabled and unable to handle his own affairs, is it possible he may get qualified for placement into a group home? It would involve being declared disabled, going through medical and psychological assessments, Social Security system, Medicaid and other entities as the case progressed. If he lived in a group home, he may also be able to get Medicaid paid transportation to doctor appointments.
A hypothetical game plan: A) do not consult with parents at all. B) Schedule a free consult with a disability-focused lawyer C) Schedule a free consult with elder care/probate lawyer in the county in which your brother would actually live. D) Drop by a Social Security office, take a number, enter into the sign-in machine (looks like voting machine), put your reason for visit as "Representative Payee" - in case he does later get qualified as disabled. You aren't applying as RP, but want an explanation of what is needed for your brother. E) Go to your local bank - preferable where you already hold your own accounts and will be recognized by the staff F) Ask what trusts or accounts are offered for persons declared unable to manage their own money - you're not signing up for anyone, just seeking information. G) Talk with as many of these community entities prior to seeing the attorneys. You will be better prepared as to what questions to ask.
H) If your brother actually has any paper documentation of any type, gather it up (perhaps when he's not looking) and store it for safe-keeping. You've already explained you can not depend on your family to help with any of this work.

This will be a job getting him qualified and enrolled in whatever programs may suit his needs. Buy yourself some office supplies to organize information and documents. Keep a separate log or folder for contacts. Do not show these documents/notes to anybody except the requesting agency or bank.

After you have done all of this and any additional, you can set the stage as to what/where you will/won't help in the process. There are often annual renewal routines that you may participate in - if you so choose.

There are monthly, quarterly, or annual meetings where family input is preferred - but not required. If you're more pro-active for the first year or two, it puts his providers on notice that family is, basically, monitoring the situation. It communicates to the agencies they have someone to account to. It mostly results in your brother getting better care than if he is being dumped by family. So if you want the best for your brother, that's something to consider.

Did your parents ever buy him an individual private-pay health insurance plan or did he apply on the Obama exchange? A package plan - securing a health/psychology assessment as a starting point. If he was/is ever hospitalized insurance will be a primary focus. Once declared disabled, employment training of some type can be explored. For a starter, don't focus on his working - it won't happen until he is stabilized, one way or another.

You are not obligated to care for your brother when your parents die and you're not obligated to care for him right now. Have that uncomfortable talk with your parents. Let them know that when they die, you will not take care of your brother. Simply state that the money you make is for you and your bills and not enabling his sorry ass to not get a job. If your parents end up in a nursing home, there will not be a whole lot of cash left over, if any.

I'm in a slightly similar situation with my Aunt. She lives with my mother. Honeslty, I asked my mom to put money in her will for my aunt to move out... I told her to take it out of my inheritance if she had to... My reason was that my aunt lived with my grandmother and it was very difficult to get her out of the house when my grandma passed away. We sold the house, but she would not move out. It was a mess...If your brother has a bit of money with the condition to get out of the house, it will be so much eaiser then getting the courts involved with an eviction process. Other than that... Don't worry about your brother, there is nothing you can do.

I would speak to a certified elder law attorney--not just a regular attorney. The attorney could evaluate the situation and devise a plan. The attorney may even be able to give some advice on how to approach the subject, of the need to plan for the future, with your parents (dad). Then if your dad and you meet with the attorney, dad may agree to the plan because it is coming from a "professional". I have done something similar and I can't tell you the sense of relief I feel knowing things are being taken care of properly for my parents. My parents understand what is being done and why and how it benefits not only them, but their kids. After breaking through talking about the initial taboo topic of money, my parents couldn't be happier now.

Wow, a horror story. What a horrible story. First of all, shame on all three of them. Your parents who refuse to accept reality and what life is all about and for letting your brother get away with this behavior. And shame on your brother. I know you probably care about your parents, but your brother is another story. First I would seek advice from the professionals in situations like this. If you can, get them to make a will and get a power of attorney. If that won't work, and there is no will, the state you live in will decide who gets what money - they decide - no one else without a written will. Second, YOU owe absolutely nothing to your brother and you would be a fool to be in any way involved or do anything. Don't do it. The only thing you could do is see medically now if there is some problem with him but don't count on any cooperation in which case you tried but then walk away. Third, I would have one final talk with my father and see if you can get anything accomplished. If not, be strong - WALK AWAY. Sometimes that is the ONLY way to make people do what they are supposed to do and if they still don't, you are not going to be around to suffer and pay for their problems. You do NOT deserve that. Take care of yourself and let them be dammed if they are so dam stupid.

Please do not use autism as an excuse for not working. While it can cause issues with people skills, autism is a developmental disability. Just because an autistic struggles with development (especially social), it does not mean they cannot develop at all. When you are 18 years old, but socially 10, it is a problem. But if you are 47 and socially 25 it is not really much of an issue. We know many true autistics working a wide variety of jobs. We also know some who must be cared for, but they are not capable of working because of retardation (70% of autistics).
Autism does not prevent learning. Since your brother is capable of learning, he should be capable of learning enough people skills to work a job.
I have a son who was diagnosed at 3, and not mild. He had no meaningful speech until 5. He is now 29 and makes more money than his mother. He is somewhat lazy outside of work, but that is the fault of his parents (us), not autism.
On the other hand my educated SIL is too good for a job. She makes some money at a side business, but has always been propped up by Mom and Dad. Now they are gone, and much of her inheritance is gone in supporting her lifestyle. I am just hoping she does not show up at our door in need.
I think she probably resents that we have enough money, but it was our choice to live below our means. We have a trust for our children when we pass. We have money to take care of ourselves when we are older.
If your children are set, think of your own future next. You are not your brother's keeper.
A trust can be set up with someone else in charge when the parents pass. Make sure they understand the trust can also protect the remaining spouse should the other pass first, and will shield inherited money from probate and taxes. This is routine business for elder attorneys.

Well...HE sounds like a Brilliant Philosopher! He has work/life balance all figured out. No jobs for philosophers or poets, eh?? To be Fair, back in the 1960s, most folks could get a well-paying Union Sinecure and make decent money. NO more. So-my philosophy is to avoid fast food restaurants as much as possible. The employees don't even get tips there. If we stop eating out from April-September of 2020, we can tank the Economy and defeat Trump.

Everyone here has already said most of what I planned to say. You have no obligation to support your brother. You say he is not disabled but simply refuses to work due to his arrogance and entitlement. Well, he is not entitled to have you support him after your parents death. And so what if he blows through anything they leave him? Maybe then he'll enter the real world. Where does he plan to live once they sell the house. I don't think he'll be allowed to move into assisted living with them. My suspicion is that your parents don't have a lot beside their home because he is siphoning money from them already. At least with no will, any money left will be divided by the court. With a will they could leave it all to him and nothing to you.

Explain to them how much harder, and costly it will be for you and your siblings If they do not prepair now. My parents didn't want to see the goverment get any more then necessary. If possible have them pre- pay for their funeral. That's a hard one.

Screwed your lazy, good for nothing brother! He sounds like a POS.

If you cannot persuade them to make a will, you are in for a long hard road. If there is another sibling that wants to take this on...I would let them have it!!