My mom is 73 and she’s found every way to stay our childhood home when she needs to leave and go somewhere affordable. She recently broke her knee doing lawn work and is now rehabbing in the living room. She has very little resources, she has no income other than social security, the bank owns the house, and she is still thinking she can sell it for over the bank price owed. She won’t listen to reason in regards to making a plan for her future. It’s costing me and my brother lots of money to enable her lifestyle (it’s a big house). What are the logical next steps and should we include her in the decision making?
If she is clinging to the idea that she needs to do this or that to sell it call her on that, she can turn over the control of all of that to you and your brother and you will do the research to sell it and help her find a place and move but she has to give you that control. Bring a realtor in to tell you what you might get for it and what might increase that and what won’t. The market in many places is still a sellers market so this may be the time for the best chance to get out from under the house not just get mom in a place she can handle. It won’t be easy for any of you either way but if it’s more than she will do and won’t go along with it you really need to let her fail. It’s the same thing many of us have had to do with unhealthy non safe loved ones living alone who refuse help, we have to wait for the inevitable emergency event that sends them to the hospital.
I know how difficult this is but it sounds like you and your brother are both involved so at least you have a support system, present as a united front, that’s worth so much in this journey of caring for your parent. Good luck
She needs a serious dose of reality syrup. If you can get the information
1) Total due on the MTG (first, HEL or reverse?) including monthly payment
2) value of the home
3) net income
4) utility costs
5) food costs
6) RE taxes
7) misc expenses
Tally this all up.
If you can SHOW her that her income is less than all her expenses, that's a starting point.
Value of the home can be guesstimated
- get assessed value from town (usually less than sale, but condition matters)
- check online places like Zillow (I find they are WAY over estimated!)
If you can demonstrate that the value (downgrade for any needed work, such as roofing, yard cleanup, major repairs needed like windows, etc) is less than or close to what she owes, it can help break that bubble. The housing market is fickle. Depending on the condition, location, desirability and local market, it might be worth less than the valuation. For my mother's condo, it was a desirable location AND it was the only 55+ on the market in the entire area. The offer(s) were for more than the asking price. BUT, there were major repairs that had to be done before it went on the market. Heating system died and glass all started losing the seals, so they would fog up.
On a separate list, tally up all the duties your family has. Assumption is you are still raising kids, perhaps planning/saving for college funds, saving for your own retirement, jobs, house duties, kid duties (including help with home schooling!) and activities. You can just tell her there are not enough hours in the day to get all your own chores and repairs done. You can tell her that it takes 2 incomes to support a family today, so you can't afford to pay all her debts as well.
Question: Did she care for her own parents?
If yes, did that include taking on debts and multiple duties such as painting and yard work? An occasional assist here and there isn't a big deal, but I doubt that she did this for her parents.
If no, then why does she expect you to do this?
By today's standards, 73 isn't that old yet. Should she be brick laying? No. But if she can't care for her own home (cleaning, etc), can't afford to pay the bills and can't afford to hire someone to do the work, it is time to move! Unfortunately, this is not your decision. The only decision you can make is to back off with assisting to maintain her "independence." She is NOT independent if she can't do these things and/or can't hire someone to do it. You can provide the information for her, regarding the costs of homeowning, showing her the income in insufficient to support this "lifestyle" and encourage her to consider downsizing to something affordable with less care needed.
As noted several times, your mother is only a few years older than me. I will NOT expect my kids to "prop" me up. I have been taking pains to ensure there are funds for my care, should I ever need it. I do have a mortgage, only because I bought this 6 years ago and having lost my job before selling the other home, some funding issues occurred, but I worked it out myself! If I can get back on track to finish the needed repairs here, the plan is to start paying more on the mortgage to get rid of it! As I get older, I will want to hire people to help out with plowing (have my own right now), shoveling, painting the exterior, etc. IF I ask my kids to help out, I PAY them. They are not and will not be my butler and maid!
Final thought - If your mother broke her knee doing yard work, no way she should be doing ladders (for that matter, most painting can be done inside without a ladder - they make poles for the rollers!) She needs to move, but that has to be HER decision, not yours. She needs a reckoning and the only way she will get that is to show her the bottom line(s) AND back off with assistance, physical and financial.
Second, the thought of making such a big decision is often overwhelming for anyone looking at downsizing. It took 4 months to get my mon sorted out and moved to AL. And another 6 months to finish clearing out 57 years of accumulated junk. Do some research or hire someone to help with this process.
I rented a storage locker and stored anything Mom wanted to keep, as well as seasonal decorations.
Third, looks like your Mom is going to need Medicaid or some other form of government assistance since she won’t have the money from the house to use. Make an appointment with a social worker to find out what resources you might be able to access. Is she eligible for a VA pension? Mom got $1200 a month because my dad had served during a war.
Note that Medicaid does not pay for Assisted Living although many places will accept a waiver for a long term resident. Medicaid will only pay for a bed in skilled nursing care.
Forth, now is the time to start looking into alternative housing options. See if there are any low income apartments that charge rent based on the residents income. There might be long wait lists so get her name on a list ASAP.
And lastly, yes include your mother in the decision of when and where to move. It will be much easier for all of you if she is as least somewhat willing. Places, are,opening up for tours again so you might be able to tour some facilities. Good luck!
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Some are Individualism (stresses individual goals and the rights of the individual person).
Others are Collectivism (focuses on group goals, what is best for the collective group).
Many newer arrivals to my country found the idea of hiring aides instead of doing the elder care themselves weird & uncaring.
But then when every adult in the household is working to make ends meet (until 67) & their parent is elderly needing anything from supervision to full nursing care & can live to 100 they get a different perspective.
My family back in Europe/UK I expect looked after their own parents. But had larger families, maybe 6 or so adult children, all living local. People got old, sick & died. (Don't think they lived 15yrs with dementia or 20 after stroke like folk can today, certainly not to 100).
I have older parents now + a sibling with multiple disabilities. One other sibling lives far away. I work 5 days. I don't need a house to inherit one day (when I'm 75) I need wages to live on now.
In an ideal world family can always care for each other... But I want my children to go to university, not become handmaidens for my relatives.
I am not alone with this situation. It is how our modern society evolved & that's the reality I have to deal with.
And do not continue to put your hard earned money in her pocket! You have to save for your future!! I wish you the best in figuring this out. Liz😊
If you believe she is incompetent, you may have to take her to court and get guardianship/conservatorship of her. As nice as it would be to have her cooperation, it would be the decision of the guardian/conservator.
I'm sorry for her dilemma and your family's position. Good luck.
Say no and refuse. The doctors can say she's competent, so tell them to take responsibility for all the irresponsible bills she runs up.
Many seniors have the notion that they should spend it up while they have it because at some point the state (Medicare & Medicaid in the U.S. or a National Health and social programs in their countries) will pick up the bill and provide for them when they've gone through their funds.
They're not entirely wrong.
My father worked until he was 70 years old. He always had several income sources and made smart financial decisions. He wasn't wealthy but he did well enough. Never asked for a cent from any of his kids in all his 91 years. Then suddenly at the age of 90 he had a stroke. Up until then he was totally competent both mentally and physically. He still lived in his own place, drove, and traveled on his own. In a matter of less than a year every cent he ever had got handed over to the bottomless money pit that is a nursing home. He died indigent and on the state with a pile of unpaid bills that remain unpaid to this day because there was nothing to pay them with. He was a responsible elderly person who didn't foolishly squander his resources or chisel and mooch off his family. Yet ended up in the same place the same way as any elder who did.
Stop paying your mother's bills.
If she gets sick and needs care her money will go towards that. If she squanders her money foolishly like she is now, the state will have to provide for her.
These are the outcomes for most in the end. Paying her bills and putting hardship on yourselves to try to save her money and assets will be no benefit to her or your family.
Whether your mother is competent or incompetent - if a person cannot AFFORD to stay in their current residence, then difficult choices must be made.
If she "won't listen to reason," then she may be in denial - about her declining health and her financial ability to remain in that albatross of a house.
As others have said, your FIRST order of business is to stop bankrolling her lifestyle. Why have your not put your foot down sooner?
Have you ever made a realistic list of income (she has) versus monthly costs she has and talked about that with her. Be specific that you/brother have been making up the difference and how much it costs both of you. Unless you can easily afford this expense, tell her you can no longer afford it and the house would be repoed if you quit contributing to the bills.
It sound like she is of sound mind, so yes, she has to be included in the decision. She has a right to stay in that home until the bank puts her out on the street if that's what she chooses to do. If she no longer had the house payment hanging over her head, you need to figure out what she could afford on her own. Is there any housing available for that amt of money when you consider other expenses she would have each month in a smaller place.
If utilities for such a large house are the major expense putting her over budget, when you review bills with her (without your help) add a comment that if she keeps the house colder in the winter and hotter in the summer, she might be able to swing it on her own. Figure out what she would have to give up to continue living where she is without any more help from you.
Or try to convince her by explaining your situation. I hope she understands you and also helps you overcome this situation. This will be better for you both.
I read some blog and watch some video on the web about caring for our care person, I recently find "All Home Care Matters" on YT. They explain this type of matter seriously and you can get help from those people, I think
They recently released a video about " Caring for the Caregiver "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcn8dU9RUBo
And they explain this type of situation
I hope it's work for you.
And if she is competent you need to explain to her that you and your brother are no longer going to contribute to the household in the way of cash. If work needs to be done she will have to pay for it to be done. (If you or brother can do the work, great but she pays for supplies)
If you have been paying bills stop, This is mom's responsibility.
If there is no money for the mortgage then the bank will eventually foreclose.
If there is no money for taxes, (if she is paying taxes rather than it being paid from an escrow account that the mortgage has) then the property will be sold for back taxes.
If either of the two above happens then part of the problem has been solved.
Tell her this is the "new wave of her future" and she can either agree to find something more affordable now and of her own choosing or wait until she gets an eviction notice. (that may be a while due to COVID and the restrictions on evictions.
But you and your brother have to be concerned about your own properties, your own housing situations and your own bills.
There are senior apartments, condo's and smaller housing in "over 55" communities. There are also Independent Living facilities and most also have AL as well so if mom needs more help it will be there when it is needed.
I am the sole trustee of a significant estate , something most people might be envious of but I can attest to it being a nightmare. I have battled with my mother's neighbors in what became a party house after decades of private ownership. I have battled with the caregivers , I have been driving back and forth on the 101 freeway in LA , dealing with one problem after another for YEARS now. I should add I was also a single mother and was dragged and dumped 35 miles away by my ex husband while my children were minors and have not had the means to move closer . Pre pandemic it has occasionally taken me up to two hours to get to her .Every single week there is a new problem I am called upon to attend to. Here is the icing on the cake., One of the caregivers used to be my mother's housecleaner. She has worked for my family for over 30 years, starting with her job as a nanny to the children who lived next door to me in The Hollywood Hills. I hired her after my mother broke her arm , to look after her at night , at my mother's insistence , claiming this was the only person she would want. I might add that the other caregiver did not get along with this person and complained to me about her often . I tried for years to talk to both of them , to see what might work for each to feel comfortable in their respective roles. To make a long story short, I had to replace the daytime caregiver who had to leave to help her own family during the pandemic . She brought a very competent woman as her replacement . Within 24 hours the new caregiver was complaining to me about her. In the past two years the long term caregiver had become increasingly emotionally abusive not only towards the people trying to work with her, but also towards my mother and myself. She literally became a tyrant and would even periodically start screaming at me to the point I was in tears. About two months ago the new caregiver told me she would leave if I did not replace the person in question . As I did not want to lose her, and am so dependent on her , I tried reasoning with the troublesome caregiver and she would have no part of it . She didn't even respond to my attempts to find a solution that would work for everybody . Well I fired her, politely , paid her for her time and within weeks received a bogus worker's comp claim from an attorney , stating she injured nearly every area of her body over a period of 25 years. If I had to describe here the hell I have endured trying to keep my mother in her home I'd need at least 100 more pages. I have always been a dutiful and responsible person and I can't bring myself to move her to a facility . I am spending absurds amounts of money and literally spitting blood daily . I can't leave for more that a week at a time maximum . My mother was very abusive towards me for the first 90 year of her life and now has done a 360 and thanks me profusely for my help. I am grateful for that , but I am losing my mind . I am tethered to her care. I don't know what to say to any of you asking about this, It's an individual decision of course. I know I couldn't do it , I also know to what degree I have had to sacrifice myself.
Why do you keep doing this to yourself? Are you not worth having your own life? Your mom is still abusing you, even with the kind words added. She has you where she wants you and you keep paying the price. You’re afraid of upsetting her, as if you were a kid again and at her mercy. You’re an adult now and can call the shots.
You can't bring yourself to have her placed where she can get the best care... but you CAN bring yourself to be slowly bled to death by this situation every day? You're smarter and more valuable than that.
Do you expect your kids to do the same sacrifices you’re doing now? Because if you keep hemorrhaging your money now, you could be broke or homeless in your old age.
Break the cycle! You can and HAVE to if you want to survive with any shred of life left.
(1) her medical condition and/or diagnosis (dementia, changes in brain functioning).
As some or one here as stated, NO elder wants to leave their home nor make changes. They fight [it is fear of the unknown] until the end. This is (usually, in my experience) a given. In some ways, the 'fight' is all they have left which they see as independence. Understand how she (may) feel(s) from her point of view (although understanding may not translate into a 'logical' conversation with her. It may help you in how you communicate with her to ease the stress(ors).
(2) What, if any, legal documents that give you/family power to make any decisions on her behalf.
What you can do is stop doing what you are capable of doing if she insists on making decisions that do not serve her interest. Stop paying for costs involved with the house if she insists on staying and you have no other recourse. You have to set boundaries and touch love is 'tough' - hard to do. If you do not, you will continue on in this pattern.
(3) Yes. Immediately get an attorney. If she is poor, she should qualify for social services or some legal organization that works with low income people.
Going thru similar here.
one mom has dementia and it is well documented- thankfully some things were legally put in place before she declined.
Moving out of her home is not an option for many reasons, but so was the caregiver situation she demanded. Honestly, we had to let it fail before she would allow a change.
fortunately we have rotating family members who provide care and support.
my other mother is not demented and wants to stay in her home too. She probably has no more than 10 years life expectancy ( family history, overall health, etc)
there will be NO way to care for her in her home unless drastic changes to accommodate another person. There will be no family rotating care, so it will be me snd my spouse only. That’s going to be the tough one, but again, I’m prepared to try caring in her home and letting it fail.
it sounds harsh, but that’s what we will do.
Another less gentle option is simply to tell her you and brother can continue to foot the bills for another year only, and that its time to start shopping around now for a new affordable place. Then follow through with your plan.
1 - Discuss drawing up powers of attorney, will, and advanced directives with a lawyer who specializes in family care. If mom is agreeable, then got those taken care of pronto.
2 - Write a message for her doctor about her living situation - finances, condition of home... and ask him/her to evaluate mom for mental competency. Also, ask about a consult for social services to help.
3 - Research other living arrangements for your mother: assisted living, living with family (who have agreed to take her in)...
4 - If your mother is deemed mentally competent by her doctor, STOP paying for things for your mother. Take her grocery shopping and make her pay with her money. The only help you should give is "reminders" to pay her bills and making sure she pays them from her resources. She needs to realize that she can not manage the house financially or with household chores. If she is deemed mentally incompetent, then help her move to a place she can afford and sell the house.
top paying for her to stay in her home.
There may be the possibility of putting in outside doors for apartments. Your mother needs 3 rooms with bath. If this not possible she needs to understand. Things are different today than they were in her parents time. There are independent living for 400dollars. Call *a place for mom* they will help you find a place she can afford
You might want to have a mediator who can lead the meeting and help mom to understand and keep the heated arguments down to a minimum.
Hope this helps God bless.
You could run a simple test:
Stop paying the bills. When she gets overdue notices, tax reminders, and the lights go out, see how she responds.
If she panics, then it is time for a good conversation about reality.
If she is oblivious, then, no, you do not have to have her be a part of the decision.
You have arrived at a point where you and your brother have to take a strong stand. It is not easy. But living in this limbo is much worse. Many here can attest that after you make the "grown up decision," life is much easier.
Good luck!
After all, it is all about her and wouldn't you want that courtesy?
If she can't afford to continue to live in the house on her own income you need to show her the numbers, not just tell her she can't afford it.
If she hurt herself mowing then you need to tell her sge needs to hire herself a yard person to mow and edge every other week and tell her how much it will cost and see if she can afford it.
You can't blame her for wanting to stay in her own home.
HAve you considered letting her get a couple older roommates to move in to help with bills?
Discuss everything.
Does she have a choice to live with one of her chraters.
Best thing to do is lay everything out letting her know and see how much money it cost and what you and your brother have been paying and that ya'll won't be continuing to do that and what her options are and see if she has funds ya'll don't know about.
If so then she can stay and pay, if not the only choices are to live with you or brother or split the time and live half the time with you and half the time with brother.
If that isn't an option then see if she knows a couple friends or advertise for a couple roommates to move in which would help pay for her to continue to live in her home.
If that can't or doesn't happen, take her to see a couple Senior places.
Hope a Senior Place is the last resort.
A person is always happier in their own home if they can stay in it.
Senior Homes are mostly pleasing to the eye to the ones checking it out and is a total different story once you move in.
Once in, you are then under their rules...
Get up when they say, take a bath/shower on the time schedule, even end up getting more meds if you're deemed a problem or trouble maker, just to make it easier on the Caregivers.
Also trying to sleep with a roommate that snores or walks or talks all night.
If you've ever been in a Hospital, you know what I mean, you get no rest unless your drugged.
All I'm trying to say is, she'll be happier, healthier and feel more love in her own home or yours.
People fall all tge time in Senior Homes too.
Prayers.
Can she sell the house for more than what is owed?
Have a Realtor come out and discuss in front of your mom how much they think it can be sold for.
it is so important to plan. nobody wants to do it nobody wants to be the bad guy but be firm. I wish I had, but I thought I owed it to my mother to let her live out her days the way SHE wanted. but I was wrong and this past 10 months is what nobody would want:(