Unless these caregivers have access to your mothers bank accounts personally, knowing how much she has in them is irrelevant. Do you think they are thieves who will somehow figure out a way to withdraw the money in her accounts simply because they know the balance??
Suggest to mom that she keep her bank statements in the drawer or out of plain sight, then let the matter go. If you have no trust at all in her caregivers, it's time to hire new ones.
You could explain to her about online banking and how she can get her statements online. Then sign her up for it. Wheee! No more paper statements at all. Don't expect her to go for it, though. If she isn't already signed up for this, she probably distrusts it.
Fawnby, with banks merging with other banks there has been many issues with people trying to get bank statements or trying to set up on-line service. It's been over six months for me trying to get into my current account, the software keeps setting up a brand new account for me. I have too many things tied to the current account. Even going in person to the bank was no help, neither was the phone number they gave me for tech help. Some banks require the holder of that account to have a certain cellphone... [sigh]
On my statement the last 4 digits are the only ones that show. I am with you though, Mom should not keep them where others can see them. Leaving her checks where they could be gotten would worry me more because her full bank acct is on them.
verystressedout, yep, my Dad use to do the same thing, keep his bank and stock statements in full view on his desk.
Eventually I had all of Dad's financial statements and bills forwarded to my own address. I took over as his financial Power of Attorney.
You could tell Mom ,using what is called a "therapeutic fib", that everything is now on-line and she would need to use a computer to get her statements.
But she does not use a computer nor want learn to use one. Not sure she wants to use a smartphone, either. We are waiting for her doctor's evaluation information. Stressedout may reply as soon as she knows.
“My Mom doesn’t want me to touch her documents”. Big deal, why be obedient about something so stupid? Get a folder for them, put it somewhere she can find them if she wants. Even in a folder on the desk is better than on open view.
Met a man last week with papers around, couldn't figure out how to use his phone properly, or laptop, struggling with passwords to whatever. Also papers are 'missing'.
🚩 Planning & processing issues or just a bad day?? ⚠️ Risk of becoming a fraud victim? ⚠️ Wanted someone to take him to a bank to get cash out..
No way Mister! I went with my gut insticts.
Very, you know your Mom best - I'd bet your instincts are right too.
I think I would try a nice new folder to collect them into one place as suggested. Because the 'Accountant' or 'Bank Manager' said to?
Then start being slueth.. is Mom being responsible with her funds? Or have things slipped/changed?
Thanks for all ideas. I’m being falsely accused of theft now.
She won’t let me touch, arrange anything. She screams if I touch her documents. She keeps things in folders, then scatters them on the table. All papers clearly visible. The caregivers are right next to her.
I put them in a neater pile, so caregivers can’t see the statements. She called family and said: now papers are missing, it’s because I moved things, and I stole the papers.
I immediately told her, I stole nothing. I was protecting her. She insists I’ve stolen important papers.
Verystressedout: You are scared but not at a dead-end and may require professional help to deal with your mother's situation. Perhaps your mom has some type of mental decline like dementia. This is not normal behavior and requires that you take over her decisions. Hopefully you have POA to do it and protect her from identity theft. I read from you in our forum that her doctor will soon see her. If your mother still wants paper, then have statements mailed to yourself to manage her affairs.
One option would be to set up online banking so that no one else can access the banking info. And keep those passwords safe with computer locked. Do the same with other mailings that may invite unwelcomed snooping or harmful exposure of personal data.
verystressedout, we are trying to help you and have given you a lot of good suggestions. But for some reason you are pushing those ideas aside.
Is it because you feel uncomfortable using a computer yourself or you don't have a computer? Are you writing to us here via your cellphone?
Do you have a close friend who can help you set up on-line banking for your Mom, thus you can request no more paper statements can be mailed to your Mom. If Mom complains, just tell her all banking is done by computer. And you keep a 3-ring binder with all of the printed out bank statements at your home, if you have printer access, or if your close friend has one.
If your Mom wants to know her balance of her account, she can still telephone the bank to get that information.
Hi! My Mom is mentally competent. She decides. She doesn’t want to use a computer. I think many elderly people prefer to feel/read paper. She wants me to get the print-outs. I do, but then she leaves it on the table, for all to see. If I touch the papers, try to organize them, she shouts. She doesn’t want anyone touching her documents.
Her bank probably has useful advice to offer about protecting herself from identity theft and other common scams and frauds. Go to their website and print off some leaflets. You can always leave them on top of the statements.
Lots of clients not only leave this kind of information lying about but will even wave it under our noses and ask our opinion. The Code of Conduct requires us to treat personal data with the same respect as any other property, i.e. basically don't touch it. If you can't trust the caregivers in your mother's home, you may have bigger concerns than whether they fail to turn a blind eye (as I agree they should do their best to).
There are certain things you can buy to put the bank files under lock and key. Start googling things like locking file boxes. I recall seeing one recently on Amazon that wasn't terribly expensive. You could get your mom involved in choosing the system that she feels most comfortable with on the computer, i.e. bring a laptop and show her pictures: some might have a "numbers' system" for locking them, while some might have a key. She could also put her social security statements/anything with her SS number under lock and key also. Good luck.
Here's one that runs about $40 (on the left) + there's a picture. This isn't a link, so you'll have to copy/paste it in your browser:
Being paranoid to the point of accusing a trusted adult child of stealing is concerning behavior. Not being able to acknowledge that leaving bank statements out for hired caregivers to be able to view is concerning behavior. Unwarranted anger and shouting is concerning behavior. Please have this looked into, starting with UTI testing and going from there. This isn’t said with judgement, there may be changes in mom that you’re too close to the situation to see
My mom is 96 years old and I have control over her bills and mail. Her bank accounts are all online and statements do not come in the mail. We view them online and I will print out what she needs and put them away in the lock and key safe. She is under the impression that statements come every week instead of once a month and different statements come on different days. I have the key to the mailbox so I get the mail. If the statements need to come in the mail, speak to the bank and see if statements can be mailed with sensative information blocked out. If not, then you need to open the mail and block out the sensative information yourself.
I have written a reply to your October 11th message earlier. What has your mother's doctor said? Please send an update to our forum as soon as she has been evaluated for her behavior and perhaps physical reasons as this is not normal. I used to work in banking myself and do all activities online. I have strong passwords for my laptop and other devices that are changed ever 3 months to chase away thieves. My cellphone device has fingerprint and code access no one else can use. I have verbal codes for telephone contacts unsuccessful to anyone else. I have sound mind and Thank God can still make my Own Decisions. I'm 67. These days with Covid restrictions, it's very hard, if not impossible, to get any customer service in person. Getting a live rep. by phone can also be difficult to find due to staff shortages. Customer information has to be protected from identity theft.
Amother important piece of advice. I've heard that mail can get stolen by "dumpster divers". Online securely protects documents. Have a service for virus protection, such as McAfee or Norton to monitor for peace of mind and LifeLock protection if any accounts get compromised so lawyers quickly get to work to recover lost funds and hopefully find whoever stole money and customer data. Costs annual service fees but are worth insured peace of mind. Can your mother be educated at all? Get past that thick head behavior.
Do you have her passwords? If so, change her settings to paperless and have the statements go to your email address instead of through the mail to her. If you don’t have her password but have her SS number and account number you may be able to reset it. Otherwise if you have POA use it to change the address on her account to your address. If she asks about them just say you will look into it. After a couple of months she may not even remember them.
It’s also important to lock your mother’s credit with the three credit reporting agencies so nobody can take out a CC or loan in her name, and set up alerts on her accounts that go to you that will alert you of an amount over a certain limit that you set is about to post. You can decline it. My father tried to take out a large sum of money from his bank, the alert came to me, and I declined it. He left the bank confused but without the cash. If she has a dementia diagnosis tell the bank manager so they can keep close eye.
From what I gleam from responses, you, verystressed out, needs to (decide to) do what is required vs 'giving in' to your mother's unreasonable, unsafe 'requests' of you (i.e., making printouts which she then lleaves laying around). And, this behavior can / will go into more / other unsafe behaviors.
I question your past / childhood / adulthood relationship with your mother. Usually, our behaviors and feelings about our (selves) parents are developed at a young age.
QuestIons: 1. Are you intimidated by her? 2. Does she trigger fear in you? 3. Were you scolded as a child for not listening / making a mistake?
Whatever is triggering you to do what she wants VS what is in her best interest needs to be dealt with --- before theft may occur (with care providers or others who happen to come into the house).
What are your boundaries? 1. Do you have any with your mother? 2. What is her diagnosis (medical) ? This determines A LOT in terms of how family / POA proceed with care - and managing that balance of an elder maintaining their independence. 3. Do you (ever) say "NO" to her? If you do not say no to her / her requests of you, why not? What are you afraid of? Losing her love, as a mother (a childhood need that was based on 'being a good girl' ... never measuring up to her expectations and therefore, you never getting the love of a mother which - in the best of worlds - is unconditional.
When an elder family member / parent ages and we are required to intervene / take over, our feelings about the relationship (and our self) come out full fledge in black and white - ready for you - to decide on: 1. Do you want your mother 'running you/r behavior' ? 2. Have you allowed her to do this #1 and for how long 3. Are you WILLING to look at yourself and change how you relate to your mother?
Possible Outcomes of YOU changing . . . 1. She may resist / argue with you (100% she will) 2. You may need to step back if you are not her POA and allow her to make her own mistakes / careless behavior and suffer the consequences. 3. Realize we, individually, no matter who we are, can do 'so much' to protect a loved one (from themselves). A POA has much more ability, legally, to put safety guards in place. 4. When / (if) she starts screaming or demanding, or however she behaves - leave. Do not 'take it.' Tell her once - or twice - if you continue to xxx (scream) at me, I will leave. And then leave. She may (likely) start to realize that her behavior / responses to (how she is treating / communicating) you is unacceptable and she will stop. Although, she needs YOU to act on your words (these aren't threats). - And you can leave for five minutes or five hours or a day or two. The point is that she sees how her behavior affects you and the consequences to her. - If she is mentally incapable of understanding due to her brain chemistry changing, it is up to you to make legal arrangements to handle what you need to do.
Learn to love yourself ... in new ways 1. Self healing is ... well, everything to our quality of life. We have to do it or deal with how we feel / behave / think if we don't. We lose our energy, our self if we don't take care of ourself. 2. Do affirmations about you - how you feel about yourself. Google affirmations, visualizations and start changing your automatic thought / behavior responses.
Start with a medical evaluation to know what brain chemistry you are dealing with. Watch Teepa Snow's webinars / website. Get support for you, whether it be professional therapy, or friends / church etc.
Without legal avenues, we can only do so much - and 'watch' as decisions of a loved one result in adverse circumstances. It hurts, it is sad. Get her legal matters in order.
Lastly, who is interviewing these caregivers? Are they from an agency? Ask for references, both personal and professional. Ask the agency if they do a criminal check?
I realize I may be totally off base here. Do know: do not argue. It doesn't work. Gena
verystressedout, I have noticed when someone asks you a specific question you tend to over look the question. We cannot help you without you helping us.
I know your Mother doesn't use a computer, but you haven't said if you are familiar with on-line banking. If that is the case, I can see how frustrating that can be.
At least "freeze" your Mother's credit with the 3 national credit bureaus, if you live in the States. Equifax: Call 800-349-9960 or go online.... Experian: Call 888‑397‑3742 or go online.... TransUnion: Call 888-909-8872 or go online.
For more info on credit freeze: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-to-know-before-freezing-your-credit
A credit freeze with the credit bureaus is now free. I froze my credit over a decade ago and back then there was a fee. I haven't needed to sign up for any of those other watch-your-credit type companies that charge monthly.
If your mother has dementia, she will not “ remember” she had documents on the table. Time to take over her finances and bill paying before she gets CLEANED OUT financially .
I was t MIL's one day, YEARS ago. I was sitting at the table, reading a book, a full 15' away from MIL and DH, who was trying to unsnarl something she had done with her CC acct. She was SO mistrustful that she would cover the acct # with piece of paper and then slide the paper over so DH could only 'see' part of the entire acct # at once. This was taking FOREVER, and finally DH said "Mom, I can't even remember OUR checking acct #, how could I remember YOURS?" She gave me the side eye and said "It's HER I don't trust."
For the love of Pete. I said "V, I am not paying attention and I also don't CARE. Would you rather I went outside and sat in the car while you do this?"
Yep. So that's where I went. She then changed her 'hiding place' for all her financials, b/c she felt I had somehow figured out where she kept them.
Yet she blithely told her cleaning lady she was going out of town from X-day to Y-day and got robbed blind by this woman and her son while she was gone. She gave her cleaning lady the code to the garage and a house key. The irony of this situation was indicative of how she felt/feels about me. Maybe your mom has the same kind of reasoning. Or lack thereof.
Do not be manipulated or influenced with your mother's lack of judgement. Does your mother own her own property, like a house or condo? If so, does she own it by herself or jointly with you?? If her identity is stolen though bank record information, her property may be taken over by the criminal(s) who stole it in her/your name. If you both own that property jointly, you may both end up homeless if identity is stolen. I'm hearing you but do not want to scare you. Like I had said earlier, both of you need professional help to cope and work things out before anything gets out of hand. Thank you for Joining Our Forum.
It sounds like your mother is not making good judgments about financial matters and papers. Does she have dementia? Hopefully you are her POA and can take over her finances. As mentioned below, the best way is to set up all of her accounts online and then switch to paperless. She is open to identity theft and theft if she leaves her financial papers lying around. Lock up any existing financial papers, titles to cars, deeds to house, etc. or better still, take them to your own house or put them in a safe deposit box. Her checkbooks, purse, credit cards should also be locked up. Only leave a small bit of cash around. Lock up any valuables (jewelry etc.). Have a talk with her and ask her if she'd like you to take over her bill paying and finances. She may welcome it. With my mother, while she was mentially able to sign legal documents, she made me joint owner of her accounts, and we asked for a credit card on her account with my name on it so that I could purchase things for her. This made things a lot easier. You also need to be on file with Medicare and Social Security to be able to speak on her behalf. You can do this with a phone call with her sitting next to you to answer some questions they will ask. All the best to you both.
Suggest to mom that she keep her bank statements in the drawer or out of plain sight, then let the matter go. If you have no trust at all in her caregivers, it's time to hire new ones.
I am with you though, Mom should not keep them where others can see them. Leaving her checks where they could be gotten would worry me more because her full bank acct is on them.
Eventually I had all of Dad's financial statements and bills forwarded to my own address. I took over as his financial Power of Attorney.
You could tell Mom ,using what is called a "therapeutic fib", that everything is now on-line and she would need to use a computer to get her statements.
Then she got angry I touched them, and said now some documents are missing and I stole them: she told the caregivers.
🚩 Planning & processing issues or just a bad day??
⚠️ Risk of becoming a fraud victim?
⚠️ Wanted someone to take him to a bank to get cash out..
No way Mister! I went with my gut insticts.
Very, you know your Mom best - I'd bet your instincts are right too.
I think I would try a nice new folder to collect them into one place as suggested. Because the 'Accountant' or 'Bank Manager' said to?
Then start being slueth.. is Mom being responsible with her funds? Or have things slipped/changed?
She won’t let me touch, arrange anything. She screams if I touch her documents. She keeps things in folders, then scatters them on the table. All papers clearly visible. The caregivers are right next to her.
I put them in a neater pile, so caregivers can’t see the statements. She called family and said: now papers are missing, it’s because I moved things, and I stole the papers.
I immediately told her, I stole nothing. I was protecting her. She insists I’ve stolen important papers.
You are scared but not at a dead-end and may require professional help to deal with your mother's situation. Perhaps your mom has some type of mental decline like dementia. This is not normal behavior and requires that you take over her decisions. Hopefully you have POA to do it and protect her from identity theft. I read from you in our forum that her doctor will soon see her. If your mother still wants paper, then have statements mailed to yourself to manage her affairs.
UTI? New medication? New worry about finances?
One option would be to set up online banking so that no one else can access the banking info. And keep those passwords safe with computer locked. Do the same with other mailings that may invite unwelcomed snooping or harmful exposure of personal data.
Is it because you feel uncomfortable using a computer yourself or you don't have a computer? Are you writing to us here via your cellphone?
Do you have a close friend who can help you set up on-line banking for your Mom, thus you can request no more paper statements can be mailed to your Mom. If Mom complains, just tell her all banking is done by computer. And you keep a 3-ring binder with all of the printed out bank statements at your home, if you have printer access, or if your close friend has one.
If your Mom wants to know her balance of her account, she can still telephone the bank to get that information.
Lots of clients not only leave this kind of information lying about but will even wave it under our noses and ask our opinion. The Code of Conduct requires us to treat personal data with the same respect as any other property, i.e. basically don't touch it. If you can't trust the caregivers in your mother's home, you may have bigger concerns than whether they fail to turn a blind eye (as I agree they should do their best to).
When you print out statements for her, use a Sharpie to black out the number.
Here's one that runs about $40 (on the left) + there's a picture. This isn't a link, so you'll have to copy/paste it in your browser:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vaultz+locking+file+box&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7viP-YzE-QIVDRitBh1WTwmxEAAYASAAEgLPwfD_BwE&hvadid=580750830449&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9033348&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=12353855924750593442&hvtargid=kwd-8498081629&hydadcr=22828_13493790&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_9m0a8i549t_b
It’s also important to lock your mother’s credit with the three credit reporting agencies so nobody can take out a CC or loan in her name, and set up alerts on her accounts that go to you that will alert you of an amount over a certain limit that you set is about to post. You can decline it. My father tried to take out a large sum of money from his bank, the alert came to me, and I declined it. He left the bank confused but without the cash. If she has a dementia diagnosis tell the bank manager so they can keep close eye.
I question your past / childhood / adulthood relationship with your mother. Usually, our behaviors and feelings about our (selves) parents are developed at a young age.
QuestIons:
1. Are you intimidated by her?
2. Does she trigger fear in you?
3. Were you scolded as a child for not listening / making a mistake?
Whatever is triggering you to do what she wants VS what is in her best interest needs to be dealt with --- before theft may occur (with care providers or others who happen to come into the house).
What are your boundaries?
1. Do you have any with your mother?
2. What is her diagnosis (medical) ? This determines A LOT in terms of how family / POA proceed with care - and managing that balance of an elder maintaining their independence.
3. Do you (ever) say "NO" to her? If you do not say no to her / her requests of you, why not? What are you afraid of? Losing her love, as a mother (a childhood need that was based on 'being a good girl' ... never measuring up to her expectations and therefore, you never getting the love of a mother which - in the best of worlds - is unconditional.
When an elder family member / parent ages and we are required to intervene / take over, our feelings about the relationship (and our self) come out full fledge in black and white - ready for you - to decide on:
1. Do you want your mother 'running you/r behavior' ?
2. Have you allowed her to do this #1 and for how long
3. Are you WILLING to look at yourself and change how you relate to your mother?
Possible Outcomes of YOU changing . . .
1. She may resist / argue with you (100% she will)
2. You may need to step back if you are not her POA and allow her to make her own mistakes / careless behavior and suffer the consequences.
3. Realize we, individually, no matter who we are, can do 'so much' to protect a loved one (from themselves). A POA has much more ability, legally, to put safety guards in place.
4. When / (if) she starts screaming or demanding, or however she behaves - leave. Do not 'take it.' Tell her once - or twice - if you continue to xxx (scream) at me, I will leave. And then leave. She may (likely) start to realize that her behavior / responses to (how she is treating / communicating) you is unacceptable and she will stop. Although, she needs YOU to act on your words (these aren't threats).
- And you can leave for five minutes or five hours or a day or two. The point is that she sees how her behavior affects you and the consequences to her.
- If she is mentally incapable of understanding due to her brain chemistry changing, it is up to you to make legal arrangements to handle what you need to do.
Learn to love yourself ... in new ways
1. Self healing is ... well, everything to our quality of life. We have to do it or deal with how we feel / behave / think if we don't. We lose our energy, our self if we don't take care of ourself.
2. Do affirmations about you - how you feel about yourself. Google affirmations, visualizations and start changing your automatic thought / behavior responses.
Start with a medical evaluation to know what brain chemistry you are dealing with. Watch Teepa Snow's webinars / website. Get support for you, whether it be professional therapy, or friends / church etc.
Without legal avenues, we can only do so much - and 'watch' as decisions of a loved one result in adverse circumstances. It hurts, it is sad. Get her legal matters in order.
Lastly, who is interviewing these caregivers?
Are they from an agency?
Ask for references, both personal and professional.
Ask the agency if they do a criminal check?
I realize I may be totally off base here. Do know: do not argue. It doesn't work. Gena
I know your Mother doesn't use a computer, but you haven't said if you are familiar with on-line banking. If that is the case, I can see how frustrating that can be.
At least "freeze" your Mother's credit with the 3 national credit bureaus, if you live in the States. Equifax: Call 800-349-9960 or go online.... Experian: Call 888‑397‑3742 or go online.... TransUnion: Call 888-909-8872 or go online.
For more info on credit freeze: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-to-know-before-freezing-your-credit
A credit freeze with the credit bureaus is now free. I froze my credit over a decade ago and back then there was a fee. I haven't needed to sign up for any of those other watch-your-credit type companies that charge monthly.
For the love of Pete. I said "V, I am not paying attention and I also don't CARE. Would you rather I went outside and sat in the car while you do this?"
Yep. So that's where I went. She then changed her 'hiding place' for all her financials, b/c she felt I had somehow figured out where she kept them.
Yet she blithely told her cleaning lady she was going out of town from X-day to Y-day and got robbed blind by this woman and her son while she was gone. She gave her cleaning lady the code to the garage and a house key. The irony of this situation was indicative of how she felt/feels about me. Maybe your mom has the same kind of reasoning. Or lack thereof.
Patathome01
Good for you and good for her - win, win!