She can gift you to $15,000 yearly to each of you without any problem. Any amount over requires IRS Form 709 to be filed with her yearly income tax.
She can also gift you any amount over, up to the $3M if she wants. This requires IRS Form 709. There is a lifetime limit of gifting of $11.58M in 2020. What the 709 does is keep a running tab on her monetary gifts to you. IF she exceeds the lifetime limit, it will trigger a gift tax rate ranging from 18% to 40%. If that was to happen, she would be liable for this tax..and if not paid, it could come your responsibility to pay. We aren’t talking that amount of money...but it is always best to do your research and speak to a certified tax professional. A review of the IRS website is also helpful.
Gifting only effects Medicaid. The look back is 5 years. I think to make sure Mom will have enough to cover any care she may need, you need to talk to a financial advisor.
An Assisted living can cost 5K a month or more a month. Long term care 10k a month or more. That all needs to be taken into consideration.
When I first came to this site I found a great deal of frustration when it came to the vast amount of misunderstanding that the majority of posters had regarding both gift tax and death tax.
That basically people didn’t need to worry about they, the gift receiver, having to pay the tax. That the tax didn’t occur until after the death of the gifter- unless the amount the gifter gave exceeded the lifetime amount while they were alive - and that very likely that wouldn’t happen then or even after the death unless the gifter was very, very wealthy. The 1%, so to speak.
But the misconceptions regarding this topic sticks around like gum on the bottom of a shoe!
Perhaps it was the way I was explaining it. Anyhoo - your explanation is excellent and very easy to understand. Hopefully, it can help to clear up some of the misunderstanding on this subject.
My brother is poa and uses his lawyer she has no idea what's going long on she is giving my brother and I 100 to 150 the thousand each last 2 years ask my brother if this good does not answer
If this lady has $3 million and a paid off $375,000 house why are you worried about Medicaid? She should have adequate funds to pay for her own long term care.
From her Asset Allocation and her projected income ( ss , pension, RMDs) vs expenses both current and projected, she can calculated a safe withdrawal rate of her portfolio. Over 25 years, this might be in the range of 4-5% per year if she is 50/50 equities/bonds.
There are tax consequences that she needs to be aware of, both in terms of total gifts over a lifetime and the capital gains and/or income tax she pays on RMDs and withdrawals from her brokerage.
If she is not a competent DIY investor who has been tracking her tax consequences, she should probably consult a CPA or tax attorney.
One of the things that irks me is people who have saved all their lives and have accumulated a rainy day fund of size and then the kids think the elders should get a crappy nursing home paid by Medicare instead of a nice place paid by the rainy day fund. How unfair to the elder!
And if you think that having paid taxes to pay for "free" nursing homes is unfair, then they should add up all the benefits they received from the government. I bet we all come out ahead by paying for our military to protect us, even eliminating benefits of free health insurance after 65!
I kind of thought the same thing that surprise does. Why would your Mother want to go on Medicaid. She should keep her money. Then she can afford a nice Assisted Living or Longterm care facility with her own room. Otherwise, in LTC she would have a roommate or like my Mom, she was in with 4 people.
But whatever you plan you need someone who knows Medicaid and the laws. As forum we can point you in the right direction and give some info but you really need a professional.
Heck, mom can afford one on one care in her home. At a cost of 12K a month, 144K a year she has enough money for 20 years! But, that doesn't change things, her money is first an foremost for her care.
Why in the world would she want a Medicaid nursing home? Ask her that question, take her to a few, then ask her if she wants that or to stay home with her own caregivers. Doesn't make any sense at all.
gladimhere- A little over 7 years ago my parents were living in a two bedroom IL apartment. Towards the end of my dads life they were paying for 18 hours of agency provided caregivers a day. We were working to make it 24 hrs a day when he passed.
Anyhoo - the cost of the caregiver(s) at 18 hrs a day was running about $18,000 a month. Then, there was the rent - another $4,000. And, of course the insurance(s), food, random bills - probably another $1,000 easily. For a grand total of over $23,000 a month.
But still, you are absolutely correct in saying that this level of care is well within this old gals budget - even at the higher cost and providing she didn’t make it into The Guinness Book of Records for life longevity. Her owning her house outright makes it even more within her means.
AND, you are absolutely 1000% correct in saying every penny of the $3.0+ million should be spent solely on her care and comfort. WAY BEFORE a dime is gifted to anyone.
I have no answer as far as gifting, but just wondering why medicaid would have to be involved with anyone who has 3 million dollars. I'm not understanding something here.
It’s because If she gives her millions away, she won’t be eligible for Medicaid for another 5 years. She’s 84. She needs to have enough money to self pay for her care for 5 years. That’s why Medicaid has come up. If she gives her money away and has a major health crisis 6 months later and can’t come home, she won’t be able to get Medicaid to pay for her LTC
She can gift you whatever she wants, its her money. If you're worried about future Medicaid issues, she's going to need to remain healthy and clear a 5 year lookback, so if she gifts away all her assets now and doesn't need Medicaid for 5 years, she's clear. If however she needs Nursing home care say 3 years from now, she will be denied Medicaid.
Your mother should use her money for her long term care. She is in a very good position to hire home care aides and nurses in the comfort of her own home, or a good Assisted Living Facility if that is what she desires. How wonderful! If she gives half of her money away, and she lives a very long life she might need those gifted funds in the future. Sounds fishy to me about your brother. I agree with Rainmom 100% money to be spent on the care and comfort for your mother before any money is gifted. She saved for a rainy day, let her use it for herself! Keep an eye on your brother, a red flag definitely!! Your mother is in very good position, but with greed can quickly turn sour. Does your mother have an elder attorney? Keep an eye on your brother, Rhnjr.
RH, when you ask "is it legal", what are you REALLY asking?
Are you asking if mom can gift away her money and not get put in jail? Then yes, she can, as long as she pays the taxes owed.
She can gift away as much as she likes if she doesn't need public assistance like Medicaid for 5 years (or, has enough money stashed away for her care from now on; if she needs Medicaid, there will be a 5 year look back--meaning that if she lives for 10 years and is fine (and has paid all her expenses but THEN needs care, she needs to pay those 5 years additional years on her own until Medicaid kicks in a cent).
My questions about her asset allocation go to the rate of return she is getting on her 3 million currently. At a 5% SWR, she can spend 150K per year on expenses (including care) and not touch her principal. Not sure why you and your brother want to deplete her principal.
She can gift as long as she is not incapacitated. Brother as POA cannot make that decision for her as that places him in a conflict of interest position and could be found to be undue influence of an at risk elder. I think mom needs an attorney that is looking out for her welfare, that is not brother's attorney that may be questioned on ethical conduct.
You seem to not trust what is occurring, go with your gut instinct, as I think you are correct, and get an attorney that will watch out for mom. I see red flags.
I am really concerned about this whole thing when the OP says her mom doesn't know what is going on.
Right there tells me that the time for gifting is over and everyone has to wait for their inheritance. She can not competently make this decision and that makes it illegal.
You know that what your brother is doing is wrong and that you should contact APS and protect your mom and ensure that she gets the care her money will afford her.
Does your mother have dementia? If she does not she can do whatever she likes with her money. However, it is to my mind immoral for children to accept money gifted by a parent who may need it for his or her own care in her lifetime. Your mother could have 15 years of life left. If she requires memory care it could easily cost her at least 10,000 a month to live out those years year. She could require 24/7 nursing care during that time should she fall ill. Your Mom is extremely lucky to approach these years with this kind of money. It is rare. The money, in my humble opinion, should be hers during her own lifetime.
The 5 year lookback can change. The laws on this were done in the 1990’s & had it up to 10 year lookback and what estate recovery needed to be but left each state to determine their own compliance. States were all over the place as to what happened. Some did virtually no lookback or recovery but still got their Medicaid $.
Bush2 DRA of 2005 (Deficit Reduction Act) tighten up the must do requirements for the states. So now MERP has to be attempted & lookback standard is 5 years.
But feds and states can change this. personally my crystal ball is showing me that if current administration gets another 4, the lookback will be pushed to 7 years for over all paperwork and 10 years for anything sold or transferred that’s real property. Folks will be ineligible not because they don’t qualify but more they cannot fulfill the paperwork requirement needed in 30-45 days.
They’re looking at 7 years in Maine. And some other rule tightening. LTC is bankrupting Maine. And they’ve gotten statistics that show a great deal of sheltering and dishonesty.
She can also gift you any amount over, up to the $3M if she wants. This requires IRS Form 709. There is a lifetime limit of gifting of $11.58M in 2020. What the 709 does is keep a running tab on her monetary gifts to you.
IF she exceeds the lifetime limit, it will trigger a gift tax rate ranging from 18% to 40%. If that was to happen, she would be liable for this tax..and if not paid, it could come your responsibility to pay. We aren’t talking that amount of money...but it is always best to do your research and speak to a certified tax professional. A review of the IRS website is also helpful.
An Assisted living can cost 5K a month or more a month. Long term care 10k a month or more. That all needs to be taken into consideration.
When I first came to this site I found a great deal of frustration when it came to the vast amount of misunderstanding that the majority of posters had regarding both gift tax and death tax.
That basically people didn’t need to worry about they, the gift receiver, having to pay the tax. That the tax didn’t occur until after the death of the gifter- unless the amount the gifter gave exceeded the lifetime amount while they were alive - and that very likely that wouldn’t happen then or even after the death unless the gifter was very, very wealthy. The 1%, so to speak.
But the misconceptions regarding this topic sticks around like gum on the bottom of a shoe!
Perhaps it was the way I was explaining it. Anyhoo - your explanation is excellent and very easy to understand. Hopefully, it can help to clear up some of the misunderstanding on this subject.
From her Asset Allocation and her projected income ( ss , pension, RMDs) vs expenses both current and projected, she can calculated a safe withdrawal rate of her portfolio. Over 25 years, this might be in the range of 4-5% per year if she is 50/50 equities/bonds.
There are tax consequences that she needs to be aware of, both in terms of total gifts over a lifetime and the capital gains and/or income tax she pays on RMDs and withdrawals from her brokerage.
If she is not a competent DIY investor who has been tracking her tax consequences, she should probably consult a CPA or tax attorney.
And if you think that having paid taxes to pay for "free" nursing homes is unfair, then they should add up all the benefits they received from the government. I bet we all come out ahead by paying for our military to protect us, even eliminating benefits of free health insurance after 65!
But whatever you plan you need someone who knows Medicaid and the laws. As forum we can point you in the right direction and give some info but you really need a professional.
Why in the world would she want a Medicaid nursing home? Ask her that question, take her to a few, then ask her if she wants that or to stay home with her own caregivers. Doesn't make any sense at all.
A little over 7 years ago my parents were living in a two bedroom IL apartment. Towards the end of my dads life they were paying for 18 hours of agency provided caregivers a day. We were working to make it 24 hrs a day when he passed.
Anyhoo - the cost of the caregiver(s) at 18 hrs a day was running about $18,000 a month. Then, there was the rent - another $4,000. And, of course the insurance(s), food, random bills - probably another $1,000 easily. For a grand total of over $23,000 a month.
But still, you are absolutely correct in saying that this level of care is well within this old gals budget - even at the higher cost and providing she didn’t make it into The Guinness Book of Records for life longevity. Her owning her house outright makes it even more within her means.
AND, you are absolutely 1000% correct in saying every penny of the $3.0+ million should be spent solely on her care and comfort. WAY BEFORE a dime is gifted to anyone.
You haven't answered the questions we've asked to clarify the situation.
I'll send you my bank account info right away...............:)
Yuck yuck.
J/K. I have no idea about gift laws & taxes, etc. Just crackin' a little joke to brighten your day!
Are you asking if mom can gift away her money and not get put in jail? Then yes, she can, as long as she pays the taxes owed.
She can gift away as much as she likes if she doesn't need public assistance like Medicaid for 5 years (or, has enough money stashed away for her care from now on; if she needs Medicaid, there will be a 5 year look back--meaning that if she lives for 10 years and is fine (and has paid all her expenses but THEN needs care, she needs to pay those 5 years additional years on her own until Medicaid kicks in a cent).
My questions about her asset allocation go to the rate of return she is getting on her 3 million currently. At a 5% SWR, she can spend 150K per year on expenses (including care) and not touch her principal. Not sure why you and your brother want to deplete her principal.
You seem to not trust what is occurring, go with your gut instinct, as I think you are correct, and get an attorney that will watch out for mom. I see red flags.
Right there tells me that the time for gifting is over and everyone has to wait for their inheritance. She can not competently make this decision and that makes it illegal.
You know that what your brother is doing is wrong and that you should contact APS and protect your mom and ensure that she gets the care her money will afford her.
However, it is to my mind immoral for children to accept money gifted by a parent who may need it for his or her own care in her lifetime. Your mother could have 15 years of life left. If she requires memory care it could easily cost her at least 10,000 a month to live out those years year. She could require 24/7 nursing care during that time should she fall ill. Your Mom is extremely lucky to approach these years with this kind of money. It is rare. The money, in my humble opinion, should be hers during her own lifetime.
The laws on this were done in the 1990’s & had it up to 10 year lookback and what estate recovery needed to be but left each state to determine their own compliance. States were all over the place as to what happened. Some did virtually no lookback or recovery but still got their Medicaid $.
Bush2 DRA of 2005 (Deficit Reduction Act) tighten up the must do requirements for the states. So now MERP has to be attempted & lookback standard is 5 years.
But feds and states can change this.
personally my crystal ball is showing me that if current administration gets another 4, the lookback will be pushed to 7 years for over all paperwork and 10 years for anything sold or transferred that’s real property. Folks will be ineligible not because they don’t qualify but more they cannot fulfill the paperwork requirement needed in 30-45 days.