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I guess I'm just venting. They say there are only two realities in life: Death and taxes. Not true. It is death, taxes, and bills. Mom died just a few months ago, and I am still getting filed bills from services performed a year ago. What surprises me these medical idiots file the bills a year later AFTER the service was performed. This makes me afraid to seek medical doctors because I could get surprises even a year or more after. For five seconds in the hospital you can get bills at all directions in every way possible. Hospitals will bend over backward to create bills representing a great deal of creativity to deplete your bank account. That's why I refuse to see a doctor, even with medical insurance. I'm afraid of the surprise billing which pop up when mom was alive.


While I am getting a hold of this "new life" of mine--life without mom--these bills bring back a lot of pain.


These bills are under mom's name. I'm not paying any of them. I have to go through the motions and if I get a bill from home I sent them a copy of her death certificate.


Death is painful not just the actual process, but the enormous flood of paperwork. Why must life be so painful. What made it easier was preparing for her death such as pre-arranged cremation, and I did estate planning five years ago while mom was still able. I feel sorry for anybody who has not done these things. Funeral homes will really gouge you if you don't do a preplanned burial or cremation.


Now I have to get through doing her taxes. For the last time. More pain.
Even with all this preplanning it still is painful. I can't imagine how awful it would be to have to deal with probate AND these ongoing billing issues on top of that.

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It's natural to panic when a loved one has died and that her medical bills are still arriving in the mail. Are you responsible for paying them?  In most cases, the answer is no. Exceptions can exist, such as if you're the surviving spouse and you live in a community property state, or if you cosigned on a particular debt, but for the most part, heirs don't "inherit" debt. No need to hire an attorney.
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Has anyone tried the trick of using the return envelopes to send the other companies junk to the wrong company.

Use return envelope to company ABC with contents from company ZYX.
Helped me a few years ago.
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My mom died 2 months ago and I have received 4 plan of care from her Health Insurance, all identical and these are booklets which are most likely not cheap to print or mail! They know she is deceased so why would I need a plan of care for her!
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Check the EOB, if there was any patient responsibility required for the matching explanation of benefits to the bill you were sent it would be there. Call the insurance company directly and see if they have made payment for the procedure on that date of service. They will provide you a copy of the EOB if you request it.

HOWEVER, to my knowledge, most insurance companies have a clause that basically says that any medical bills that haven't been paid within 1 year of the date of service must be written off by the company doing the billing. Be mindful, they know that they have to write things off, but they are trying to collect any way they can, and some keep trying to get the payment even when they are past the expiration time that the insurance company has in it's contract with the provider. If the insurance company knows they are still billing you and they aren't owed more, the insurance company can help you to get the bills to stop, if it's within their clauses.

I went through this with my mother, and the kicker is that she worked for the hospital as a claims processor so we already knew the methods they try to use to get paid. We also already knew that past 1 year they have to write it off if the insurance company has already worked the claim. The best bet for you is to contact the insurance company directly, ask them if they made payment of the claim, request the EOB, and then contact the provider that is billing you. Make sure you specifically ask the insurance company how long the provider has to collect the debt before they are required to write the debt off. The thing is if there was insurance involved, they pay first, then they bill for the remainder. If you didn't get a bill for the service and an entire year has passed since the date of service, likely they will have to write it off.

The thing about medical bills is that everyone has their fingers in the procedure. Hospitals bill for the rooms, the nurses, etc, but the doctors that come in bill you separately, then anything that is done procedurally is billed separately, if they draw blood, those phlebotomists bill for drawing blood, the tests they do are billed by both the lab for the lab processing, and the service by the person doing the service. The medical field is BIG business, and everyone has sticky fingers and the price tags are HUGE. Be informed, ask the insurance company questions. If it was a hospital situation, talk to the hospital financial advisor. Make sure before they do any procedure that they are certain the procedure will be covered, and make sure there are witnesses to hear their answers when they give them. It's all about the money.

In my mother's case, truly, we always only ever felt like the Nurses were the ones who truly cared. They were amazing and we are ever grateful for the ones we had. Also, when I went through this I did not have to provide one single death certificate, those things alone are outrageously expensive, so if you send them out, request they be sent back, even if you have to provide a self addressed stamped envelope. Don't provide one unless they specifically request one either, they usually never need it, the insurance company can usually verify a death to a provider.

Let me say also, I'm so very sorry for your loss, my mother and I didn't have the greatest relationship, and even though we didn't I was still there for her until the very end. I know the pain of loss, and the pain of everything you are now dealing with that has been heaped upon you on top of just trying to be able to breathe and grieve. Please remember to take time away from all the "must do" things to handle things, and give yourself "you time" It's incredibly important right now that you look after you. Everything else you can do a little at a time. I still haven't been able to bring myself to go through and pack up my mother's clothes. I wish you the best of luck right now, and hope that you can find your way to some peace.
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Eracidem Feb 2020
I would add to this advice to actually not send any originals of documentation EVER. I recommend scanning a color copy into an email of mine - that way you can forward it to another email, or take a picture including all edges, but remember this will only forward to someone with a cell#, not an office landline. If solo Physicians do not have email because they operate business in the 1700's then they don't deserve to receive your originals.
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Just have to say something about Medicare. A complaint really.

Read the top of the statement. If it says Summary then its not a billing statement . It will say further down "between months of 00/00 and 00/00. They are very confusing because you have probably already received the statement and paid the bill. I really don't see where they are needed.

Navy, that 1700 maybe an adjustment. I had one for a 1000 come thru. The date in question had been paid. I held on to the paperwork but was never billed by the doctor. So, I eventually threw it out. The important paper is your supplimental statement. That shows what Medicare paid and the supplimentals share. If a balance, that should match up to what the doctor billed you. Once I have matched everything up and it agrees. I pay the doctor bill and ditch the medicare and supplimental paperwork. I only keep them if a problem with a doctors bill.

Used to be you had the statements long before the dr. bill. Now its seems the Drs. are being paid faster and the paperwork from Medicare and supplimental is slow coming.
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worriedinCali Feb 2020
That’s good to know Joann. That explains why we were receiving Medicare documents for doctors visits and lab work done as far back as 2016! 2 or 3 showed a small amount MIL would owe but we have never received a bill so the doctors must have been paid a long time ago!
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Write on unopened envelope: DECEASED. RETURN TO SENDER.
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Eracidem Feb 2020
This might suffice, but if it doesn't be prepared for follow up from Providers requesting proof.
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It's obvious your mother's death was very painful for you, and I wish you well in coming to terms with it. However, you still do have to deal with the realities of life. Who is her POA? Were all documents signed as POA? Is there an estate (money in your mother's name), or an estate bank account? The medical community is trying to collect money for services rendered, and they are trying to collect them through her estate, if there is any (which would pay if there is finances). If you (or someone who is POA) doesn't know any of the legal ins and outs, contact an elder attorney. Paying an attorney for an hour or two to clear up who's responsible (if anyone) is well worth it. Any account in your mother's name will usually require a certified copy of a death certificate. Many will accept a copy emailed to them, so you don't have to mail a a paper copy. In all cases, find out exactly who needs to receive the death certificate so that it's noted correctly the first time you send it. I'm still working on removing my husband's name from the utilities, and it's been over a year. I took care of the really important stuff right away, and now I'm taking care of the remaining few things out there.
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worriedinCali Feb 2020
POA doesn’t matter at this point because POA ended as soon as OPs mother passed away.
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Same situation happened a year after my mother’s death. . I called the doctor’s office and explained the woman to whom the bill was sent no longer lived at the billing address (I gave my mother’s name when referencing “the woman”, but not mine...did not tell them I was the billed woman’s daughter). I then told them that the woman died about a year earlier. I’m guessing they assumed that I was a new occupant at the billing address. They apologized and I never heard back from them.
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If you are Not Mom's POA, Guardian or even Exec of her Estate, You are not Obligated to pay theses off with her Money, honey.
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return to sender no such name.
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" Return To Sender" "MOVED"...
NO such name.. You pick
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IMHO, you should hire an elder law attorney.
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disgustedtoo Feb 2020
To do what? She had all the good stuff done/setup years before with EC atty, when her mom was still capable. I think the bigger issue is having to relive the pain of her mother's passing every time another bill comes in for her mother, not just sending it back or how to deal with it. She's trying to grieve, and move forward, and keeps getting reminders.

If there's no estate (sounds like it), no probate to go through and no funds of mom's left, there's nothing to pay (I do believe any funds in a joint account becomes yours if the other person passes.) If the choice is to pay a medical bill vs EC atty, it might be cheaper to pay the medical bill! There really isn't a need for EC atty at this point.
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My mom died 14 months ago and just the other day, I got a Medicare statement for services from 17 months ago. Her mail comes to my address and some of it even says ""To the estate of ___________(mother's name.). Mail still trickles in even though the forwarding order has expired. Both my parents have everything in trust and I am full trustee plus had DPOAs so I am in charge of father's assets. We haven't had to do any probate. I thought having POA would make my job easier, but it is still a shit ton of work keeping their stuff straight, copying, filing, paying bills, balancing checkbook, keeping track of accounts, saving receipts for everything spent and paid, etc. Now doing taxes as well. Even did spreadsheet to show all we spent on father so when the time comes, the estate will pay it back off the top if anything left. Then the 2 useless siblings will get their remaining 1/3.
Both were hoarders and all mom's stuff ended up at our house as I was given 3 days to clean out her over stuffed AL room. It has taken months to sort through everything. Even found a life insurance policy from her former job that she never told me about. I saved some pictures and knick knacks with sentimental value. All the rest of it was donated as neither siblings nor grandkids showed any interest in the family mementos. My house is overflowing and I just don't have the room. It just makes me sad. They are just waiting for whatever's left of the nest egg, and then will probably piss it away. Once my father passes, I'll finally be free of the whole dysfunctional energy vampire family, and get my life back.
It's never easy but will get better with time. Best of luck.
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disgustedtoo Feb 2020
Except that your father is still alive, I almost thought perhaps I entered a fugue state and typed your post!

Wish I could get you in touch with my bros. When you said "...it is still a shit ton of work keeping their stuff straight, copying, filing, paying bills, balancing checkbook, keeping track of accounts, saving receipts for everything spent and paid, etc. Now doing taxes as well." my first thought was yeah, I hear that!

Doing all that while trying to get the condo cleared out, cleaned up and repairs done (1.5 years of my life gone!) I told OB it was all too much and his response was loud, nasty "Then give it up!" No offer to help, No suggestion what to do if I did "give it up." I don't even talk to him anymore. He was physically abusive to me during his last trip to "help", so I'm done. More recently telling YB it was too much, his response was to say that the facility does it all... Ummm, no. I won't bother listing it, as you've covered most of it!

The only thing I haven't done (other than my time and gas money to get all that condo shit done) is spend my money on our mother - even if I wanted to, I don't have enough to cover my own needs right now! So, I manage the trust and her income as best I can and they haven't said boo. They both have access to the trust, so if there are questions, they should be asking NOW, not after mom is gone. Post death, taxes, any remaining bills to pay, then you get your 1/3, take it, shut up and be gone!
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related to this, is a wife responsible for the bills of her deceases husband?
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Janus12 Feb 2020
You should make this a separate question to the community.
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We sure dodged a bullet with my dad; he died from a heart attack in the doorway of his apt, and was taken to the morgue in his city. All I had to do was get a local funeral parlor to pick him up and transport to a local medical university for organ donation. The total cost was $370, which was paid from his funds. No one ever sent any bills here - I never even thought about it.
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Don't pay...a lawyer told me his Mother died and he was still getting bills for 2 years. He didn't pay as he told me "the company has no legal recourse once a person has passed away". I hope life gets a little less painful as you go along. im sure if you took a relaxation day at a Korean spa sometime it would make you feel a lot better. It always helps me.
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I received some bills after my Grandfather died for things I was unaware of.. I wrote asking for details of what happened, diagnoses etc. I stated I would only pay( with his money) things that could be proven were his. I was the POA. THe bills stopped coming. You are not responsible for anyone else's bills if you did not guarantee payment. If the estate is insolvent an attorney suggested writing "insolvent estate" on the bill and mailing back.
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If you did not guarantee payment, you are not the debtor and do not have to pay for you Mom's bills.

Are the creditors billing properly? The bills were hers and whatever insurance beside Medicare she had.

If your Mom left funds, you need to pay the bills out of her funds, although, unless it's a large estate, it is unlikely any creditor will sue the estate.
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Now you know why people grieve for a year. It takes that long to settle all your departed one's estate. Soon it should be over.

If somebody is executor of your mom's estate, let them handle the bills. If this is your task, do your best.
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cetude Feb 2020
You are right about that!
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Im sorry for the pain this causes you but the bills need to be paid. Send them to the executer of the will, that is their job.
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Write 'deceased - return to sender' on all of the envelopes and put back in the mail. It is not necessary for you to make a copy of her death certificate for each bill that comes in. You didn't say if her estate was probated in the courts yet, but when that happens a public notice is put in newspaper (or other media) to announce the probate and gives all persons with interest in claims to estate the info they need to file a claim.
Return to sender and be done with it.
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Return the bills on-opened. If she has money in her estate, they can collect that way-otherwise return to sender each and every time you receive one.
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I have just went through this myself...over a year old and I think it is now the final 2 bills that came in, it’s just unbelievable. What I did is went to the hospital’s and DRs billing department and had them resubmit the bills to the insurance companies again. The insurance companies will pay for it.
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Yikes, you all are scaring me! My mom passed Thanksgiving morning and I have only received an EOB from Medicare. This was for her pacemaker a week before her stroke and second hospitalization. I called the hospital for a final and detailed bill and they told me nothing was owed. She had Medicare and Tricare. Do I have to track down all the different doctors down?
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Manson Feb 2020
If you are getting bills from the DRs their addresses will be on the bill and on the EOB from Medicare it shows the address and billing party on there also.
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You think a few month's ago is bad, try having the same name as your father and being his live in care giver with the same address. From your 1st move to present, the mail still follows you around with every address change.
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mally1 Feb 2020
Don't envy you!
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I'm sorry for your loss--and angry as a hornet at the insurance companies.

After FIL died, we paid all 'true' bills and refused the rest. (old ones, some 2 years old). No retribution, they accepted his death certificate as proof that he wasn't capable of paying. We did pay for hir new dentures, and when I went to the office to pay the bill, they handed me a box with the new denture inside. I lost it. They looked like 'dad's teeth' and I was so sad he never got to use them, His old ones never fit well and these were expensive and nice. I'm just standing there, holding a set of dentures that cost $1,000 and didn't want them. Why he went to the dentist when he was in Hospice and knew he was dying to get new teeth was beyond me. I left them at the dentist, they were hardly something anyone else could use.

As far as ins co and slow pay--my chemotherapy of almost a year ago was FINALLY paid in January. They just did not want to shell out $150,000 in 2019, and they didn't. I fought them tooth and nail and they always had an 'excuse' for why they weren't paying. It was frustrating beyond belief and made me opt OUT of the follow up regimen my doc wants me to do b/c 5 more years of life (maybe) is not worth the incredible hassle my ins co gave me.

Shame, shame, shame on them.
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If the bills are in your mom's name only you are not responsible for paying the bill. you could try writing "deceased" on the bill and sending it back but some creditors may require that you mail them a copy of the death certificate before they will write off the bill.
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Manson Feb 2020
This is true as well.
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Ordinarily they have ONE YEAR to collect bills after the death, and the executor is then able to distribute the estate, other bills going into the circular file (garbage can). But I would pass this by an Elder Law Attorney. And do NOT make any partial payment, as this shows good faith that you are on for paying, and reestablishes the time frame to another year. That's why they are so anxious to have you say you will pay. You are best now to talk to NO ONE but a lawyer. Well worth paying for an hour of their time. Either Elder Law or Trust and Estate law.
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It took me too long to figure out--the first bill from a particular office or billing group reflects the total before insurance coverage. DON'T PAY THAT ONE! It can take them months to finally submit the bill correctly to insurance--sometimes you have to call them and give them the correct insurance info. Finally, about 3 months later, insurance pays, and you receive a bill for what you actually owe.

Another thing--when I called the hospital and asked if bills could be sent to my home instead of my mother's home, they said fine, as long as I agreed to be the responsible party. I said no way!
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The FIRST thing to do is CLOSE your bank accounts and open new one in a new bank so "billing" companies can't attach your money.  NEVER let anyone know info about your finances.  Pay ALL bills with a money order with a phony "sender address".  I've been through the same thing you are facing and my attorney gave me much needed instructions to CMA.
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Manson Feb 2020
Who gave you this advice? This is wrong advice.
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