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From the caregivers stating that they are owed lost wages and overtime. They never complained about the rate mutually agreed and were always given bonuses at Christmas, included in family dinners, and treated as part of the family. Sent them each checks and cards of thanks when dad passed. They had worked with us for over 3 years and felt like part of the family:(



I’m wondering what the going rate for care is for 24-hr shifts with meals included. Also had strange things happen like the shift calendars all went missing from the house and lots of damage to the house in the last 3 months.



I'm sure they went through the files and the location of the house is in a good neighborhood so they expect he has $, but they don’t understand we’ve had to mortgage everything to pay them the last 3 years. Sold all his interest in stocks and his retirement accounts are emptied… We are all grieving the loss of dad and now feel like we just lost this extended family.

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I Understand what you say...and most likely they found out they were underpaid...get a lawyer and offer a settlement...at the end it was 24hour work and the death of your father probably did affect them as you stated they were like family...thats why agency charge 20K a month its long hours and emotional .
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JoAnn29 Sep 2022
They excepted their paychecks. If felt they were underpaid then they should have said something then. OP says there is very little money left. OP is not responsible for what Dad agreed to.
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The first step is to think about whether the letter/s did actually come from both/all the carers. Next to try to work out when the shift calendars went missing, and who had access to the house. Same with damage to the house. Who had keys? Who would have noticed the problems?

My own experience with something similar suggests to me that they may have been put up to it, perhaps by a boyfriend. ‘No money coming in, they must be rich, let’s give it a go’. Then you probably should just wait to see if a claim comes in, what detail it gives, and who it is addressed to. Worrying about paying a lawyer comes after that.
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MargaretMcKen Sep 2022
I forgot to say to change the locks, if you haven't already done it.
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If you can locate the original contract, give it to a lawyer in that community in CA. He or she can draft letters to get them to cease and desist.
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Care4dad707: You should retain an elder law attorney posthaste.
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I would tell them to go kick rocks or sue your dad. How did they loss wages, your dad passed away.
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Sarah3 Sep 2022
Her post stated they are demanding lost (unpaid) wages and unpaid overtime be paid at this time.
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I am a principal of Crisis Coaching. I consult on Eldercare and related pending Bills, as a federal advocate and independent lobbyist.

You need to talk to a labor and estate lawyer.
Take the contract and payment records with you.

You don't directly owe the money - unless you personally cosigned ( hope you didn't!). The estate owes the money. Life insurance is separate. It doesn't have to be used by beneficiaries to pay estate bills.

Going rate 2022 is $28/ hr on avg for caregivers. Graveyard shift / overnight pays higher. If you included meals that isn't included in the $28. That is just a perk-- unless they contractually agreed that each meal was worth say $3 and it was deducted from the pay rate. Stay above minimum wage, around $16/ hr. and you won't fall below probably.

If they were paid in full what they agreed to for rate and it was above min. wage, I think a labor lawyer will probably say they aren't owed more.

If the estate is bankrupt, no one else owes the money. Mortgage payment comes first when house is sold, taxes and any liens paid.

You can talk to multiple lawyers here for $0-25 for first 30 minutes.

I am still a fan if pre-paid legal plans. For around $30/ mo you can have a lawyer retained for fast needs. Legal Zoom and Legal Shield are two I know of in US.

I can give you the name of one local highly respected conservatorship lawyer in LA area who does "eldercare legal seminars." Her name is Susan Geffen. She has a huge local following. She helped me a lot through her webinar info when my father was dying. I followed her events around the area up til COVID shutdown. She, like other lawyers, can practice anywhere in the state. You can tell her I referred you, if you want. We stay in touch by email. Susan or her husband Joel can refer you on to other lawyers. I work more national and international level supporting adult children who don't live near parents, training on a spectrum of related eldercare issues. www - dot - susanbgeffenlaw - dot com

My gut hunch- I am not a lawyer:

You may have the hassle, and probably do have a positive outcome.
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Perhaps hiring an Elder Law Attorney who can write a letter to them, requesting wage information would take the stress off of you. The lawyer will know the employment laws and can advise you. If they are owed the money, then perhaps you can hire estate sales people to sell his house contents/cars/equipment, etc.

It's better not to get involved in money lawsuits that end up causing much grief and anxiety. With a lawyer, you should be fine to settle and move on.
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I don't know what they mean by "wages not received". What exactly is "lost wages"?

It sounds like a bit like extortion to me.

If they were paid to the penny for what was agreed upon up until your dad's passing, then their wages have been received and they have no leg to stand on.

I can't imagine. Ugh.
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Sarah3 Sep 2022
It sounds from the post they were good solid employees as the op had them for her dad for 3 years and they were thought of as extended family. Lost wages is a fairly common term referring to an outstanding balance where the employer owes the employee some amount of payment and in good faith they trust it will be paid, unpaid overtime is self explanatory
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dont ignore the requests but reply you are not going to pay it. There is a legal reason for this. Let them sue your dead dad.
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Sarah3 Sep 2022
Without considering the possibility these employees have unpaid wages due them???
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Some clarifications:

1. Letter of demand from whom? The individual caregivers, or an agency?

2. Does the demand letter itemize the dates, times, as well as recap what was paid and what allegedly was not paid? If not, that's a necessity.
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They can’t decide after the fact that they are not happy with what they were paid. This is something they should have addressed while your father was alive and they were working for him. If they are owed pay for hours they worked but we’re not paid for then that’s one thing and that’s easy enough to settle.
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Sarah3 Sep 2022
The post says it was for wages that were not received-not that they weren’t happy w what they were being paid.
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My little part is to mention meals and inviting them to a family dinner etc are not counted as part of a salary. If you really did consider them as part of the family why not talk with them and see where they’re coming from - and offer to pay if it’s not unreasonable amount, if the numbers indicate it is unreasonable, see if they’ll accept a lesser amount - so you are acting in good faith this way
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JoAnn29 Sep 2022
Better she not engage in anyway till she talks to a lawyer. They are fishing hoping family knows no better. There is no estate. The daughter is not responsible for her Dads debts.
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I'm so sorry for your loss and that this is happening. I would guess that any payments due would be from your father's estate. If the estate has no remaining assets, there can be no payments (the house is an asset, as it can be sold). You may want to consult an attorney who knows employment and estate law. Employment laws do require breaks and time off, etc. If there are assets left in the estate they may be entitled to some of it. If you want to play hardball, you may want to countersue for damages to the house, but consult with an attorney before doing this.
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As per your answer to another responder below, you did not have a contract with these people; you were not paying these people other than as POA or Guardian or some such as far as I can see. They can try to get money from Dad's estate, would have to win a lawsuit to do so, and you are likely correct that they feel there are deep pockets here and have some attorney they want to make a settlement with them. This should all be done with once that attorney finds out there is no estate.
The executor of Dad's will is responsible to handle this now, and whatever estate Dad has pays TO take care of this. My guess is that the attorney for Trust and Estate your executor hires can return a "dead, no estate" letter to the attorney who is acting for the parties threatening suit and this will be over with quickly.
Do not discuss or respond in any way to these people; that could go against you. In fact, the more "dumb" you are as to any of the details of this other than an innocent response of "I have no idea of Dad's contract with these people; if I come across any I will let you know. I only helped with his scheduling" would likely be best. Don't "go there" with responses such as "Dad paid the rate requested, and now, blah blah blah...."
Just keep in mind you are the innocent party who has no idea of any of this. Turn all communications over to the executor of Dad's will or Trust and let that person handle this with the Trust and Estate or probate attorney.
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IMO, your Dad owes this money not you. And since it looks like there is no inheritance, they cannot get any money. Did Dad have a contract with them?

I would have a lawyer write them a letter telling them that their agreement was with your Dad. The family is saddened by the letter of demand they sent. Its felt you were treated very well during their employment. They received bonuses and severance after Dad passed. If they were not happy with their wages at time of employment, it should have been brought up then. That the cost of care for Dad depleted his retirement accts, his savings and stocks. Since the house has a Mortgage it will be sold to pay it off. SS and any pension stopped at his death. There is no inheritance. His children are not responsible for the cost of his care.

Hopefully, you wrote checks for everything. I also hope you changed the locks on Dads house. Sorry to say, this is why you keep things professional when hiring aides. I know, its hard. They were there for him. How did you receive their hours? Or you just paid them the same thing every week? IMO, they cashed their checks and by doing that they agreed to payment. If they had a problem it should have been brought up then.

Was their letter from a lawyer? If so, then it needs to be addressed by a lawyer. Otherwise, they are fishing.
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Was the letter of demand written by an attorney on their behalf?

So your father was paying the caregivers under the table? Was the "very loose" contract he had with each of them in writing?
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Care4dad707, did you have contracts for each caregiver, or were they from an Agency and it is the Agency asking for more money which would be not the norm? The Contract should state what is the hourly rate for normal hours, and if the caregiver can, in fact, work overtime.

For my Dad, I used a well known Agency and the cost was $20k per month, this was a few years ago. The Agency had each caregiver bring their own meals. Rarely was there overtime, if a caregiver was unable to make her shift, the Agency called in another caregiver.

Dad never had any damage caused by the caregivers. The damage he had was from trying to "drive" his walker around the house. I found as I am getting older, there are a lot of oops moments.
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Care4dad707 Aug 2022
the care givers were hired by dad originally so it was a bit of a hassle when I had to step in a year ago and try to start sorting this all out. Dad was immobile but sharp until about last year. I don’t much care about the damage I’m more upset and don’t understand how this happened. The caregivers never once indicated to me or dad (that I know of) that they weren’t good with the rate.

just really taken aback. No agency was involved and there is a very loose as I would call it contract dad had with each of them.
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