My 86 year old father is an alcoholic. Do I let him be?

You cannot have his recovery for him. You "pushing" anything will be a 100% failed effort that will just deplete you. What you need to prepare for is to remove your Mom from that home if you are her PoA . Whoever is her PoA will need to have the authority activated through an official medical diagnosis by her primary physician. If neither of them has a PoA and they are unwilling to assign anyone, then you will need to call and report them to APS and continue to call APS (I think you can do it anonymously). If APS determines that your Dad is a danger to himself or others, they will either remove him from the home or your Mom. The neighbor buying the alcohol... not sure they know what "liability" means. But it's true your Dad requires a medical detox so that cold turkey doesn't kill him. Alcoholics get a specific type of dementia called Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome (aka "wet brain"). It's due to blocked vitamin absorption from the alcohol consumption. He may get cirrhosis eventually, as well. I'm so sorry for this situation. It's going to get ugly for a while and then eventually an "event' will happen that lands one of them in the hospital or a facility during a crisis. Please stop romanticizing that he, at 86, is going to voluntarily stop drinking and that the neighbor will stop buying him the booze. The neighbor probably drinks, too.

Contact Al-Anon. There are plenty of meetings online and phone meetings. I don't know if many in person meetings have resumed in your area or not, but check in with your Al-Anon Alateen Service Center.

Also, there are Youtube videos Al-Anon (podcasts) that you can listen to. These were a lifesaver for me when our meetings closed during the pandemic. We lost a slew of meetings here in Washington, DC, during the pandemic and many have not resumed in person. We also lost our service center for the DMV area since no one wanted to take on the roles to keep our area service center open.

I had plenty of elderly clients who drank and one who does now. I asked him about his drinking. He would sit in his own filth until one day I got so fed up after cleaning a nasty toilet that I told him that I was going to talk to him the way I used to speak to my husband. He was like; Oh no! I told him point blank that if his visiting nurse were to come and see him in those nasty clothes and unwashed smelly clothes in the bedroom that he was headed for a call to the APS if he didn't straighten up his act. I told him that I am a mandated reporter for any client who is showing signs of self-neglect. Also, I told him that he needed to purchase sheets for his bed.

Well, a week later after the talk, he ordered new sheets for the bedroom, seven new shirts, underwear and at least five pairs of new pants. He is going to order a new quilt for his bed. I haven't been seeing too many beer cans like I did in the beginning. Yesterday, he was ready to talk about his younger years how he would drink and party. Also, there were all types of cleaners for me to clean the kitchen and bathroom plus some Febreeze air freshner to spray. I can now go into the apartment without a N 95 mask now.

As for your 86 year old dad, alcohol has become part of his biochemistry. Leave him alone about the drinking. Unless he is raising hell and getting sloppy drunk threatening to kill everybody, there is not much you can do. If he is just sitting in a chair while throwing them back and talking smack as we say here in this area, I would just ignore his behavior. Make sure he gets to his appts. and such. Unfortunately, it's not much you can do for him at this point. Drinking has been part of his entire life.

The neighbor who is buying your dad the hooch is an enabler. Even if you told the neighbor to stop, your dad will find someone else or have the liquor store deliver the goods.

I understand how you feel though. My mother was an alcoholic and was taking medications. She died at a young age. She almost made it to seventy.

This marriage of your parents went on a long time, Kans.
You don't say how long your father has been an alcoholic, but that doesn't matter.

You asked us if you should "let him be" an alcoholic.
Whomever helped in the mini-intervention wasn't very good at it, because no one "let's" someone be an alcoholic. No one lets someone eat pototo chips, either. The sad truth is that:
YOU HAVE NO CHOICE IN THIS MATTER WHATSOEVER
I will do my same old-same old recommendation here, K. That's to get yourself to Al-Anon meetings as fast as you can. Attend them religiously. This is the first and last of what you will learn there: There is nothing you can do for any alcoholic but decide whether to stay or to go. That means whether to cut him/her from your life, or to accept that you are dealing with an alcoholic, and do that with the knowledge and tools you will learn in Al-Anon. This may be helpful for your mother as well, or it may not.
You don't tell us how old your Dad is. It's really fairly irrelevant. With this level of drinking and with a failing heart he will not long be here. Your Mom has likely known that, and she'll likely choose to last the duration. Support her. Don't stress your mom with things that cannot be changed. Together with her practice the serenity prayer, and I say that as an atheist who uses it almost daily.

My heart goes out to you, but you have no control over what your father does with his life. I think it's unlikely your dad will change. Should he wish to go to an AA meeting with you then tell him you would be happy to attend one with him, no matter he's sober or not. Stop talking to him about his drinking. It is needlessly stressing you both. But that's about it. Tell your mom you are there for her and will support her when she needs you.
I am so very sorry. You are so very not alone. Alcoholism is rampant across the world. I know that's no comfort to you. I am so sorry.

It's remarkable your father made it to 86. If you've already had an intervention at the doctor's office, I doubt you or anyone else is going to have any success at getting him to quit drinking. I know a few people who were scared into sobriety because of health problems, but I also know many more who drank themselves to death or are still drinking with multiple health issues caused by their drinking. Even if the neighbor didn't get his alcohol for him, he'd find another person to do it, or a way to get it delivered. As your mother's dementia progresses the thing to pay attention to is how she is doing in that environment. She needs support, which won't come from a grouchy drunk man. Most likely her need for caregiver hours will increase and/or she'll need to go into a facility eventually. Does she get out for some socializing and exercise? My advice is to give your attention to her.

The only thing you can do at this point other than letting your father drink himself to death is to start attending Al-Anon meetings for your own mental health's sake.
And bring your mother as well if she is open to it. And perhaps even your neighbor as they are enabling your father by supplying his drug of choice.
Just please make sure that your father isn't driving and jeopardizing the lives of innocent people on the road ways.
You'll never be able to live with yourself if he were to kill or seriously injure someone because he was driving drunk and you did nothing to stop him.

There’s nothing good about what dad is doing to himself or the repercussions for mom. However, it’s a long established pattern, as is their relationship, and none of is likely to change, even if you attempt to force it. In your shoes, I’d limit my exposure as I’d want to witness it very little. I’m sorry it can’t be different or better

If your father is 86 and can still throw them back like you say he does, he's not going to drink himself to death at his age. He's also not giving up the hooch at 86 and rehab at his age is a ridiculous idea. It's amazing that he can still drink at his age.

My grandfather was like that. Drank and smoked all his life and lived to be 96 years old and God bless.
Your father is not giving up the booze at his age, nor should he be expected to. If your mother is bothered by it, move her out of the house. Like you said, he's not harming her. If she has dementia, you may want to start making some plans for what her future is going to look like. As for your father, leave the guy be. He's right. He worked all his life and now if he wants to drink, that's his business. So long as he's not driving.

Thank you all for your thoughts. I did take away his car almost 1 year ago. It was difficult for both of us. I do focus as much as I can on my mom when I visit. I am looking into attending an Al Anon meeting nearby. I guess I just needed some reassurance. Some family and friends say he needs to be in rehab and absolutely no more alcohol for him. His doctor is very casual about the drinking and doesn't press the issue. He says he will treat my dad as medical issues arise, but we can't make him quit drinking until or unless he wants to. It's been stressful to watch him decline.

Exactly how would you force him to quit drinking? The only effective methods I can think of would not be legal.

I would let him be.
For the simple reason that you are powerless to change his behavior. And insisting on abstinence would be unreasonable. It's not your job to police his diet, including alcohol, or any other choices he makes in his life.

If he becomes unmanageable for your mother or a danger to her, I would move her to an assisted living situation.

I understand your concern. Given his health condition and medications, the amount of alcohol he is consuming is not good for him. But, honestly, one bottle a week and one case of beer a week does not sound that bad.
Every alcoholic I have known would drink that daily.

Good Morning,

I have a different slant on this. Unless you live-in 24 hours per day, you really don't know what is truly going on.

Presently, I live in a beautiful place in the South. It's an independent living (IL) along with assisted living, memory care etc. Happy Hour is held 3x times per week. I am astonished at how much women especially here drink. I work remotely, mother needs assistance and I need the help with her too.

I was taught a lesson here in not judging people. What I thought was a negligent son who didn't come to visit his mother or didn't move her to the assisted living wing because it costs more money was truly not the case. A resident here would roam the floors at night in the IL which is basically an apartment, knocking on doors. Afraid to be alone, crying, dressed in her nightgown and stocking feet.

She would come into the dining room with a cylinder of prescriptions on her walker. Still in her nightgown, here there is somewhat of an "unspoken" dress code, no pajamas allowed. She would fall all the time even getting up from her dining room chair. Many of us would run to her rescue to button up her robe for her own dignity and seat her so she wouldn't feel alone and unsteady. We thought it was balance gait issues due to Dementia.

This became a routine event and we all were embarrassed for her when she would enter the dining room.

When the son kept stalling saying I'm coming this weekend from out-of-state, far away and took his sweet old time; we all thought I want to speak to that guy and give him a piece of my mind. The lovely library here, in the morning when I would check the mail this woman would be sleeping in two chairs put together still in her nightgown, all night, the chairs smelled of urine. Her blanket, other belongings would accompany her. She needed what I thought at that time was the assisted living or possibly a nursing home. She was too afraid to sleep in her apartment alone and her son kept saying to the resident's neighbor who would phone him, "I've done all that I can for her".

One time she entered the dining room barefoot, I told her to go put some shoes on. She had so many runs in the rescue the firemen and EMT's were on first name basis with her.

Dinner was always disruptive due to her behavior.

They held her in Memory Care until the son arrived in person to protect herself and everyone else but she threw a tantrum, as her erratic behavior progressed out of control.

Fast forward, son arrives takes Mom to live back in her home in a wealthy neighborhood. Word travels fast around here. So the story goes after her departure when the son took her out of here, the resident's room was full of "empty" liquor bottles.

What we all thought was Dementia was really Alcoholism. The mother lasted "one" day at her home and we were told she fell down the stairs and died. The Betty Ford Clinic really was the match for this type of behavior. The son lived far away because he couldn't take it anymore. We, "I" living here as a neighbor couldn't take it anymore because her behavior took our peace away at mealtime.

How do you know how your mother is being treated? Is your father wetting the furniture as this resident did here at this place? He has probably lost his appetite from the drinking but does your mother eat?

A facility with the elderly will not be able to handle this situation. They might just write it off as Dementia if you are not truly honest. Other residents should not be subject to this.

Enough said...

Short answer: you can’t stop it. Only he can, perhaps with some professional help. I stayed married but had to move out after many years of going thru it over & over. ( No he was never cruel or mean, just stupid & careless at times.) Love suffers when bad habits become a disease.

As long as your dad isn't a danger to himself or your mom, let him be. However, not sure if his doctor recommended hospice care since he has congestive heart failure. Your parent's might benefit having 24 hour monitoring and medication dosing. Your mom's health and safety is important too.

My husband is 89 and we live in an independent living home. He drinks 2-3 cans of beer each night, and goes through a big bottle of whiskey every 2 weeks. He’s never drunk, argumentative, nasty, dizzy. He has no medical problems, is on no meds except vitamins. He has mild to moderate dementia. I don’t drink at all, and I don’t like his drinking. But it’s his life too, and if that’s what he wants to do, so be it.

If he is mentally competent, unfortunately, it is not your decision to make. Legally, he is entitled to make bad decisions.
On the other hand, if his drinking affects his ability to care for your mom as her dementia progresses, you may need to make another plan for her. Communicate with the caregivers and ask them to inform you if they feel your mom is not getting adequate care. Go ahead and make a back up plan in case that happens.
As far as the neighbor, if he didn't bring your dad his alcohol, your dad would figure out another way, so just let that go.
This is a hard situation. I've been there. I'm praying for you and your family.

I highly recommend Al-Anon. You won’t learn to fix his drinking but you’ll find peace for yourself. The people there have learned how to live a life that’s caring and loving but not drawn into the gears and trying to change something they can’t. Rehab would be futile. Keep mom safe.

kans1220: YOU could go to AlAnon to understand alcoholism.

My dad was an alcoholic all my life. It was a difficult childhood to say the least, but harder for my little mom, because he got mean at a certain point. I learned the behavior of drawing him away from our mom and fighting (verbally) with him for hours to give her peace. To say the least, to this day I’m not too concerned with chaos. I guess I’m more hard-wired on the ‘fight’ side of ‘fight or flight’. Often our older sister got mom out of the house to a neighbors. He drank at least a fifth a day of Canadian Club whiskey plus some beer. And ran his own business till he was 65, He quit on his own at 80, and lived to 86, then died of congestive heart failure. One time he got alcohol poisoning and ended up in the hospital. At the time they did NOT supplement his alcohol intake, to let him down slowly, and he nearly died. Alcohol is the only drug that can kill you with complete immediate withdrawal, so that is not a good idea.

BUT, as was suggested, if you came to pick mom up to take her to AlAnon, and let him know where you’re going, his generation might be mortified enough to sit up and take notice. You never know what might work, and it’s worth a try.

This is just my opinion and I had an alcoholic father that I had to decide to pull the plug on after he had a massive stroke...so my opinion is very jaded, but I think it's too late to try and intervene at this point with a lifelong alcoholic in his 80's. It is too bad that your mom couldn't have had some relief from this decades ago. My advice is to let it play out...he will more than likely have a stroke or organ failure and your mom might have a few years of respite. I feel for you and what you are dealing with and what your poor mother is dealing with.

It’s too late to change Dad .
Focus on making sure your mother is cared for. As her dementia progresses , have her safe in an assisted living / memory care .

I know this is harsh , but Dad will be dying with the bottle in his hand . Don’t stress yourself trying to change his outcome .

That is a very complicated situation. Your Dad sounds as if he may have become an alcoholic. If so, the disease is protecting his source. Someone who wants to drink will find a way to get alcohol. If not your neighbor, then another way. It can be very difficult, if not impossible, to get someone who does not to quit to abstain from alcohol and probably would require professional help.

I found great assistance in learning about alcoholism and what I could and could not do, in an organization called Al-Anon and strongly recommend it to anyone who is concerned about someone else’s drinking, especially in situations like you describe. There are no dues or fees and it is generally available even in small towns, so give it a try. As God sometimes shows a great sense of humor, I later ended up working in a treatment center for 30 years.

Is he a danger to himself or others?
I am concerned for your mother being in his presence.
A woman 84 should not have to deal with this - and the emotional, and potential of physical abuse.

My sense is that the issue is keeping your mother safe.

While you mention his MD and withdrawal issues, you do not indicate what his MD advises you / the family to do?

Have you gone to Al-Anon? I don't know if they could help you or not. I believe Al-Anon is for the person attending the meetings and if they feel like a 'co' - dependent. They may be able to offer you some support / suggestions.

I would not believe that your mother is 'okay' with being around him when inebriated. She is likely unable to voice how she feels, perhaps due to low self-esteem - or fear. She may be a 'co-dependent' supporting him.

He won't stop drinking.
Good to not bother with rehab.
Get help for your mom.

Gena / Touch Matters

It will be hard to limit his usage given that other(s) are supplying him and don't try to pace his usage.