Must borrow money, and plan for mom's care. Any thoughts?

Sorry, but her assets should be used for her care until they are depleted, then the taxpayer can help pay for her care.

None of her money should go towards paying your bills. Pay them yourself.

I'm assuming you're aware that reverse mortgages are also reversely amortized?    That's a primary factor and consideration for planning, especially if you ever want to sell the house subject to the mortgage.

I have not heard a single 'good thing' about RM's, so my thoughts are tainted on this.

An elder care lawyer would be your best bet to guide you through the process. You do not want to come out in 10 years or so and find you've made some horrific financial decisions.

Does mom want to protect her assets so she can leave her kids an inheritance or is she planning on using her money for er own care? It makes a huge difference in how you plan for the future.

I wouldn't attempt this move w/o legal aid. You won't want drama now or when mom passes or requires higher levels of care.

Good Luck with this!

Sell her house and put the proceeds into a trust for her and her care. Whatever is left upon her death becomes inheritance. If she outlives those proceeds, she can apply for Medicaid. No one is entitled to an inheritance. And I also have never heard a good thing about RMs.

Her house should be sold, proceeds to trust to pay for her care, not to pay any of your debt. Reverse mortgages are simply moneymakers for the people who broker them and for the services of the mortgage.

tekguy, I strongly encourage you to invest in a consult with an elder law attorney who specializes in estate planning and is well-versed in Medicaid. I totally agree that your mother's assets should all go to cover her care. I also agree that I've never heard anything good about a reverse mortgage (my philosophy is to not invest in something you don't fully understand); also, do not pay off your debts with the proceeds from her house sale as this may impact your mother's ability to qualify for Medicaid, should she need it (and many people need it -- even ones who think they saved up enough). In my state the Medicaid "lookback" period is 5 years, so anything she does with her money (including "gifting" it to you to pay off your debts) with 5 years of her application will be closely scrutinized and could disqualify her when she needs it most. Don't do anything until you meet with the attorney.

I would like to gently suggest that you are somewhat romanticizing your mom's future aging progression. For this reason I do not recommend you buy her another house. You will be the one propping up the pretense that she is independent when in reality you will be orbiting around her needs for care more and more with each passing month as you struggle to maintain another home. Also, she will be isolated there by herself. Even if she is socially engaged now and even drives, you will be amazed at how quickly this can all come to a screeching halt. Please research some good quality Independent Living communities that have transitional care into Assisted, Long-term, Memory and hospice. This is not to "warehouse her" but to help meet her growing needs while keeping her socially engaged and sharing her supervision with qualified professionals so that you're not taking on all of it by yourselves. Please read more on this forum, as it will be very informative and eye opening for you. I wish you all the best in moving forward!

tekguy, glad you came to the forum FIRST before moving ahead with different ideas. You received a lot of excellent answers that need to be taken seriously.

Reverse mortgages are only good if someone with money wants to take equity out of their home to buy investments that have a much great return then the interest rate on a Reverse Mortgage, plus fees.

Tekguy,

NO, NO, NO, you do not use any of Mum's assets to pay off your debts. They are 100% your responsibility, not hers.

Does Mum want to sell her paid off house in Queens? Or is it your idea in order to access some of her assets to pay off your own debts? If Mum does not need to access the assets for her own use and wants to stay in her house, then as long as she can afford to pay the household expenses from her income or other assets, she can stay put.

If Mum sells her house, buys a smaller one and pays off your debt and 6 months later has a massive stroke and needs 24/7 care, she will be looking at medicaid look back.

You need to talk to an Eldercare attorney versed in Medicaid. A Reverse Mortgage councillor is not ur friend.

There are lots of stories where when Medicaid is needed there are reversed mortgages, mortgages, more than one person on the deed desides the spouse... it causes a lot of problems when Medicaid is needed. Not so much for the one needing the care but the one who had to deal with Medicaid recouping their money after the person dies. If there is a house, there will be a lean. Then the Executor/Administrator has to sort it all out.

Spending any money of Moms for yourself will effect Medicaid if she ever needs it. She can't even gift it. Since I so wish I had talked Mom into selling her "white elephant" and getting an apartment, I suggest that may be a better choice for Mom. No taxes, no upkeep, no water bills...At 80 unless you want the responsibility, she will have to pay for lawn service, plumbers, heater men ect...An apartment its the rent each month, electric and cable/internet/phone. Proceeds from the house can offset any thing her monthly income cannot afford.

If you consider adding on for the purpose of Mom living with you, you cannot use her money. Medicaid considers it as a gift and you profit from that gift if you sell ur home. Its an improvement for you.

While Mom is alive, her money is hers for her care. If she agrees to help with your debt, just be aware that you may eventually be responsible for her physical care because of Medicaid penalties.

When dad fell & broke his hip, I had to rush like a crazy woman to liquidate his assets to PAY FOR HIS CARE (and my mother's care) in Assisted Living. Not to pay my bills or to figure out a way to hide that money so I could apply for Medicaid and have the taxpayers pay his bill.

That was in 2014. Dad died in 2015 and my mother is still alive at 93 and living in Memory Care Assisted Living. Their hard earned money will run out in 2021 and THEN I will apply for Medicaid to finance my mother's new life in Skilled Nursing. When Medicaid does their 5 year look back, there's nothing to hide and no fraudulent activity to discover. All that will be revealed is that ALL of their money went towards paying for their care.

I've killed myself over the years to make sure I didn't spend any of their money and to make sure it would be extended as long as humanly possible, because that's the right thing to do. My father was an immigrant from Italy who worked his entire life so their 'retirement' could be handled properly, thank God. I am an only child and forever grateful they had the funds to keep them well cared for in AL for 7+ years.

I so agree with many below who assure you that someone in Reverse Mortgage business is unlikely to be your friend. See an Elder Law attorney for this question at best, a CPA if not. These are important questions and a mistake cannot be rectified. Also understand that you are not protecting assets from Medicaid (hopefully). Medicaid was created for those without assets who need it when they have nothing, not to be given to people so that their assets can be saved for their children. That wouldn't be fair to the taxpayers in general.

"We need to either sell her house, or get a reverse mortgage to pay off some of my debt, and buy a her a smaller house."

Why do you think your mother has to pay some of your debt? Why do you want to protect her assets from paying for her care?

I don't understand the logic.

Tekguy my advice would be for her to buy the 2nd home ASAP if its feasible. If there are options in the location she wants to live that would give her a significant net gain than get the ball rolling as soon as you can. Then she can loan you the money, furnish the house, perhaps buy a car or term life policy, but you really should consult a good attorney. If she's in good health she may last past the 5 year lookback if she loans you now. But your probably best off consulting a good elder attorney.

Mom’s money is for Mom. Not to be protected for inheritances. Why should taxpayers pay for her care when she has assets to pay her own way. It’s also not gay your debt. Pay your own bills.

Your mother should sell the house which is too large for her needs and her ability to keep it up comfortably, buy a property that suits her better, and keep the surplus from the sale of her house for possible care costs.

If there's any left over after she passes - may she live forever - then good luck to you. I'm sure she hopes there will be, and I respect that as a natural wish in a parent; but you don't have the ghost of a right to expect the state to fund or subsidise her care while she's sitting on cash reserves or property assets.

Another thought, look into joint ownership of the new home. again, the attorney would know the best way to do that, but I'm fairly certain Mom selling her house and buying a smaller, less expensive one is the superior option to reverse mortgage. It also may be beneficial to have joint ownership, or look into Mom putting you on the deed. Different states have different rules, so consulting an attorney would I think be best.

tekguy, instead of Mom purchasing a small house, it would be better if she looked at Condos in a senior neighborhood. That way there wouldn't be any outside maintenance to deal with. And she would be around people closer to her own age.

My Dad moved to Independent Living facility and he loved it. His rent included weekly housekeeping and weekly linen service, plus meals in a restaurant dining room. The women at dinner most were dressed to the nines :) Oh, money used to pay the rent was the equity from Dad's house.

As for Medicaid, please note that us taxpayers, including you, fund this option. If everyone tried to protect their assets, then Medicaid would either fail to exist or our taxes would double in cost.

If you take a loan from your Mom, make sure paperwork is drawn up correctly, along with an interest rate.

Thanks for all of the great answers, they really are helpful in thinking further, with many things neither of us considered yet. Like some people have said, each family situation is different, sometimes with very unique and private situations to have to deal with. Regarding purchasing a small house, she is at this time still pretty vibrant, and enjoys being outside, so having even a small private backyard with a "patch" of grass is very important to her at this moment, even if a no-effort condo makes more sense. And it's her wish to want to help me out as well as her concern about preserving her remaining asset - most people don't want to willingly give something up without a fight, so I have to investigate her wishes and present the options, even if it may not work out the way she wants in the end. At the very least, we now have more knowledge when we go see an elder law specialist. Thanks again for the info!

Tekguy, pay your own bills. Do things the legal way. Stop hiding assets for Medicaid purposes. Your moms money is HER money to be used for her living expenses not yours. Don’t count on an inheritance. Make your own money like the rest of us. The CASINO has my inheritance. My mother gambled it all away.