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Show her your plan. Simple cremation. No service. If she wants something more, she needs to provide the funds for that now. The cost for simple cremation- no service, no urn, etc for my FIL was 1200. We actually were following his wishes, but if you MIL refuses to say she wants more than that, why would the family provide that?
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When the time comes, shop for Cremation services. Whether you have a Memorial Service or not is up to you. A Visitation or Funeral or Memorial Service is not required.

If your MIL has some money left that you can access, use it for the cremation. Even if you have to pay with your own money, you can probably manage that cost. Check prices in your area so you'll have some idea what to expect.

Your MIL may not be able to deal emotionally with the reality of dying. She has told you she doesn't care what you decide. She is not demanding that you provide a huge gala in her honor. Even an obituary notice is optional. Assume it is being left up to you, and plan accordingly. You do not need to spend a huge amount of money.
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It sounds like she is completely leaning on her son. This can be typical when an older woman loses her spouse (she will begin to lean on her oldest son). Your husband is completely carrying your mother, so she has no reason to believe the end times will be any different.

As long has your husband is beneficiary or co-owner of her checking/savings account you won't have to go through probate (another cost). If he isn't and she won't, then depending on your state you can wait two or three years and get it out of unclaimed funds. That's what I am doing. I check once a month, it should be showing up soon.

Sometimes (if the amount is under $10,000) the bank will let your husband have it if he shows a paid funeral bill and the situation is not in probate.

He most likely will be able to keep her last social security check that comes after she dies. Those checks are paid after the month. My mother died the 3rd of July, but we were allowed to keep the check that came in July because it was for April (and she was alive the entire month of April).
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Wuzzyblue, simple, she doesn't care what you decide. Donate her carcass to science and get her cremains back at some point and scatter them in the garden. Free!

Why is she not paying her own way? That doesn't even make good sense. She needs to pay her own bills and be the grown up she is. A reduced rent to at least cover her utilities and paying for her own auto insurance is not asking to much. Oh my, when she really needs help the precedence that is being established will make her a monster to deal with, she will feel entitled to order you all about and do her bidding. She will not hesitate to fight your wishes, it will be here way or hell to pay. Something to consider.
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My narcissistic 90 year old mother made me the executor of her will and trustee on a trust. She told me (only) that she doesn't want a funeral (she always loves playing the martyr) and wants to be cremated. She refuses to put that in writing. When I told my older siblings (the children she loves - unlike me), they said I was wrong.

She's always "triangulated" us so I have no relationship with my siblings and she loves to make me look bad (though I've been the caretaker and her helper my whole life), so she's done it even with death. I've decided I'll just let my siblings dictate and not fight for what she told me she wants. It's not worth destroying my mental and physical health more to "defend" her wishes anymore.

When I begged her to put her wishes in writing because my siblings didn't believe me she promised she would. Instead she spent days studying death notices in the paper, then gave me only her glowing death notice for me to publish when the time comes. She wrote nothing of her funeral or burial wishes she tasked me with though....

My post probably doesn't help you, but it helps me to vent - so thank you - and I wish you get the best outcome with your situation.
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Davenport Oct 2019
I’m in your same boat, mm2. You do know this is a common and sad situation, right? It still hurts like the dickens, even after years of therapy. I stand by you!
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Start charging a bit of rent to cover her current and future expenses. Cremation and ashes spread can be cost effective. Doesn’t sound like she wants to deal with the topic but you can tell her this idea. Does she have life insurance? Perhaps she can leave it for you to cover all this. Good luck!
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This is probably mean but my response to her would have been "well, we don't have the money since you are not paying rent, so we will have to go with cremation which is the cheapest" (although not inexpensive by any means). Many older people don't want cremation and that might spur her on to do something. If not, go through with it and if you can get siblings to help count your blessings. If she gets $1700 a month, what does she do with that? Having hardly any expenses, she might have a little money in the bank which certainly could be used to pay for the funeral. Does anyone have a POA or does she even have a will?

I was definitely fortunate with my mom. She was very upfront with me about her finances and for the final 6 years, I was totally in charge of them. We never pre-planned the funeral, but did meet with the priest she wanted to do the service, and I knew the funeral director she wanted to use so for me, the hardest part was finding pall bearers, since some that she had wanted pre-deceased her! And being the last survivor in the family, there was no one to complain about my decisions.
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I think you should spend your money wisely and buy an Insurance Policy on her with you as being the Beneficiary of course.

Then at her death, if the other Siblings don't want to chip in, she should be Cremated and her Ashes can kept or spread at a place you know she enjoyed being. You could even Spread them at you and your husband burial plot.
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Kathy4177 Oct 2019
Ask the cemetery superintendent before spreading ashes at your own plot. Many cemetery boards forbid this but instead have a designated spot where they must be spread. Or they have a mausoleum where you purchase a spot for the urn to be placed.
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Hi WuzzyBlue. My advice is to drop the subject and move on. To be fair this is
a question Your Mother in Law is not able to deal with right now, but when She is I bet Mother in Law will make Her wishes known to You and the Family.
As for building the 1,000 Square Ft appartment on to Your home, this will add to the value of Your home after Mother in Law dies. Consider this an investment much safer than having that money in the Bank. As for Siblings contributing zero and have a boat load of opinions while disagreeing with every thing is a very common occurrence, but then this probably eases their guilt. As for Mother in Law Who is in Her late 70's, and may Live another ten
twelve or fifteen years ? and hopefully She will and You will have loads of time
to deal with this matter.
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Davenport Oct 2019
Hi, Johnjoe. Yes, the scenario of critical sibs who do nothing to help the primary is ALL too common. (Therapist predicted this from them years ago.). After a few years of less than zero even emotional support, I snapped emotionally (NOT due to the normal toll of daily caregiving) & gave them my 30 days notice. And natch, if there’s anything leftover I won’t see it, even though they
DON’T need it and I do (I fear being homeless once I run thru the last of my retirement savings). Humans ... thanks JJ for even looking at my vent! ❤️
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Donate her body to a local medical school. They will likely pay for the cremation after they are finished with the body. They also may hold a service. Tell everyone that was her wish and be done with it.
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Davenport Oct 2019
Just to note, my sister’s hubby and his sis did just that, according to parents’ wishes, to their alma mater, UCLA. A few years later found themselves plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit. UCLA Med had been commingling all ashes, and where the mass ashes went, no one knows for sure. (The folks would’ve just laughed and laughed, but still ...)
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Seems you have financial issues with MIL, and not just about the funeral. If she has the income, why doesn't she pay utilities or mortgage for her place... essentially for her own needs? Why are you footing the bills for her transportation as well if she has a means to do so? Maybe you need to renegotiate those issues first.

Next, she doesn't seem to care about whatever you do with her after she passes. OK, get used to that idea. It gives you freedom to NOT spend a lot on her memorial. She obviously doesn't care about having a funeral plot, a huge memorial service or the huge expense incurred with the whole business. The least expensive ways to deal with her remains are donation and cremation. Medical schools needs patients to practice on - the dead - and the costs incurred are transportation to the medical school and preserving the body. Cremation involves the cost of cremation - a casket is not needed. You can do whatever you want with her ashes that give you peace. The least expensive is donation for organ harvest and tissue research. The cost of removing organs for harvest is borne by the recipient. The remains can then be donated for tissue research. The recipient organization will take all the tissue samples they need and cremate the remains. The family of the donor will receive the ashes of unused tissues in about 2-3 weeks without charge.

Memorials need not be expensive. When my FIL passed. We had a nice celebration of life in our church. The room was free since we are members. I bought some simple refreshments and we placed pictures of Dad throughout the room. My hubby gave a short eulogy about his dad and then people were encouraged to share memories with the group. We ended our time in prayer. Talk with your hubby and family about what kind of activities you would like to remember MIL by. Remember that funerals and memorials are for the living and not the dead.
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Start charging her rent.

Get an insurance agent over there right away and your husband should insist she pay for the final expense policy.
Let her know unless she pays the monthly premiums, which can be deducted from her checking account, she will be cremated. Leave that information on her kitchen table.
You can't change her selfishness, but you can be proactive. Something tells me your husband has always been UBER responsible when it comes to his family.
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since I had poa, I went to funeral chapel to get pre pay; used what she had in bank a/c. Since we have joint bank a/c I paid for everything except Rabbi...which will be done separately at the time. My brother contributed half of initial deposit.

I also chose graveside which is less expensive. The family is small probably be at most around 20-25 people at most...same people who were at her 90 Bday party.

You have poa? Even if you don’t you can go to get pre plan for her. She don’t sound like in shape to deal with those things & there’s nothing you can do unfortunately to change it. Hugs 🤗
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People handle funeral planning differently. Some avoid it, some have it planned to a tee. It sounds like it’s not a priority for her. So something modest will probably suffice. Cremation is always cheaper. I would discuss with husband and start preparing now. No need to be harsh. Her sister has just died and I’m sure grieving while looking at her own mortality. Enjoy her for the time she’s here.
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I would be very frank with her that if she doesn’t fork out the money (which she obviously has if she saves a bit) she will be cremated (at lowest cost possible) and there will be no additional ceremonies due to insufficient funds. If she wants to know there is a funeral service or a nice burial or wants a casket, etc, tell her “no.” Your family could have an open house in someone’s home for mourning purposes but no need for anything else.

If she balks at this, tell her to pay up and to be loving to her progeny rather than punish them when they are already grieving. These are my thoughts. [You've obviously been incredibly generous already!].
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I had this talk with my parents and finally convinced my father to at least get the burial plot, which we did. These are tough discussions to have, but are necessary.
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It is selfish and I would just flat out tell her that if she leaves this earth with plans not made, you will take care of it the cheapest way possible which means cremation and her ashes put in a box in the attic.  You are not responsible for her.  It would be one thing if she was destitute, but apparently she is not.  Just tell her you'll take care of it and give her a wink. LOL
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Davenport Oct 2019
Meh, I’d go further and say don’t bother with even saying it; just do it when ...
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Sit down at the table where she can see you and what you are doing.
Write out a list...
Funeral with 2 days for the wake is $$$$$$
Funeral with just the 1 day view and burial is $$$$
Cremation with no viewing and simple box is $$$
Donating body to medical research with body returned cremated ...Pretty much free...
List phone numbers for the medical research and info on how to contact them when she passes and a contact name.
That might just get her thinking that you will NOT foot the bill for the service and if she wants the "send off" she wants then she has to help plan and pay for it now so that she is sure to get what she wants.
My Husband was never one to talk about funerals and what he wanted it was not until I talked to his sister that she told me he had always said he wanted to be put next to him mom. That is what I did....
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Actually, a lot of people feel that the responsibility of the funeral is on the ones remaining behind. You'd be surprised, maybe not so much anymore, how few actually plan for their own funerals.

I don't think my DH had given it much thought, he buried his first wife and I think he just figured it would be the responsibility of his children to do his funeral.

Thank God, I am a 'saver' and 'planner' and we already had our double plot and the tombstone before he passed, so all I had to pay for was his cremation, an urn and to have his Veteran's Marker mounted.

I have enough saved to take care of my final expenses too - I'm just not sure who will be left to take charge. But I'm not going to spend the rest of my life worrying. The money is there, enough to cover all the final expenses. Praise God I am not in debt.
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anonymous275053 Oct 2019
Good for You Ray. My guess is that You lived through very tough times and You worked very hard and were great at making honest money and did not squander. My Parents were exactly the same they worked very hard and saved, but never borrowed. My Da used to advise all of His Children 'neither a Borrower nor a Lender be, If You haven't got it, work hard and save. I am glad that I have taken my Fathers advice as it is wonderful to have financial freedom, and not to beholding to any one. You do contribute very well on this
site Ray, keep up posting.
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Great, she’s put it in your hands. Cremation and whatever is cheapest. No guilt.
I truly understand how upset you feel- it should be her decision and responsibility.
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I am 78, closer to 79 and I will NOT put this on my kids. I told my kids I want to be creamated and have monies set aside for it. I'm so sorry that woman is putting this all on you. And when the time comes if others won't help foot the bill I'd go the cheapest route. If MIL won't discuss it I'd tell her if it's all on you that you choose creamatiom.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
You’re sweet. I feel the same way. Why should our kids pay?
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Wow! I would talk to an attorney that handles elder care and make her go with you. Tell her she has to have a power if atty made Incase one is needed. The lawyer will then expl that a will and a living will should be done as well.

If she’s unwilling to at least do that, tell her all her money will go to the state and wasted. That a will would be able to leave it to a charity or whatever she wants.
I also would get yourself an attorney and have a paper written up that under no circumstances are you financially responsible for her debt or funeral cost. Sort of turn the cheek. She shouted wolf now it’s your turn to charge her rent, car insurance, etc and put that money in savings for her funeral and let her know Cremation is much less expensive so that’s what you plan to do to her. No burial just ashes in a shoebox. This is tough love but it needs to be addressed.
I had a client do that and once their loved one heard she got a prepaid policy and a cemetery plot all paid in full!
I know this is hardening when you have helped her out of love and friendship, but she’s not in agreement and besides let your husband handle her after all he’s enabling her by paying her expenses and giving in to her every whim! You stay out of it . This will cause serious endings in your marriage if he won’t put her straight.
good luck. This is his mom and his responsibility.
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TaylorUK Oct 2019
And making her go see the elder attorney is done how?? I don't have the particular funeral issue as mother has a prepaid plan, but there are plenty of other issues and she isn't going to see anyone about any of those and I cannot force her.
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It is each person's responsibility to pay for their own funeral. Otherwise it becomes the government's responsibility. She sounds frightened (and stubborn)
i believe this can also be added to a tax bill. Could the cost be split up and levied on each sibling's property tax bill? May cause trouble, but are you close to the others anyway??
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Isthisrealyreal Oct 2019
Government = taxpayers
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Time to call the Neptune Society
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First, I can’t believe she doesn’t pay anything towards her part of living there! Are you independently wealthy? Perhaps so. But regarding funeral arrangements since she says it’s up to others, you can tell her that either she will be cremated and ashes scattered or donate her body to medical science which costs nothing. Ask her wish she prefers since it’s your decision. or don’t ask her. I would NOT go into debt over any funeral, that is asinine. She sounds like she is more than a bit entitled doesn’t she?
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Mention its time for her to pay rent as no one lives for free anywhere and save the money for her funeral.
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Is anyone POA for Mom? It appears no Life Insurance Either, Poor Planning on Her no Heart Part. Everyone will need to Pony Up to Bury her as Cheaply as they Can, Ma'am. How sad. Hopefully, You can Reimburse yourself With Whatever is left in her account. I doubt she is Spreading her Wealth after Death.
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Funerals are so personal...and so expensive. And at the most vulnerable time -- the death of a loved one -- family members have to make decisions. Decide now. If your MIL said it was "up to you to deal with it," then let it be up to you, right? There are inexpensive ways to deal with death in this country. Choose from those, and decide now how YOU want to deal with her death. We paid $1500 for a cremation plan, and an extra $200 for death certificates, for my mother. It's what she wanted...and it's what she's getting. Why spend a lot of money on pomp and circumstance, if you don't want to, right? Have a get together at your home and bid her well and be done with it. Funeral plans/disposal plans, if you will, are so inexpensive that you can buy a plan now, or wait until MIL passes. Start looking around and get the best price. There's no reason that you or she has to spend money on an elaborate ceremony that causes stress and severely depleted bank accounts.
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bigsispjt Oct 2019
My mother is 86. She moved where we lived about 3 years zgo6. She's long said she doesn't want a funeral and she has no friends here. My siblings live out of town, so really just a few of my fr6sould show up.

Thank you for helping me think through the idea of a small memorial service. It seems a shame not to honor her in some way.
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We finally got my MIL to purchase a plot. She went on a drunken binder for a week afterwards. Guess she didn't want to face her own mortality. Don't get me wrong, I loved my MIL. She lived with us of and on for years and she and I got along great.
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One thing to consider is is this attitude she's giving you normal behavior for her? If not, she might have been deflecting because of her grief over her sisters/a legitimate fear of talking about death. My dad never discussed what he wanted done, granted he also didn't expect me to pay for it, but I would have had my mom not had the money to do so. It may be that this topic is too uncomfortable for her to talk about. You and your husband may want to come up with cheap tasteful plan as a backup just in case. Then I would take that same plan to the siblings and tell them they will need to chip in their share when the time comes. It may also be she's assuming your husband and his siblings will receive inheritance, and that they should use that to pay. If she comes around to discussing it again, it might be worth mentioning that she may end up in a nursing home and not have any money left to leave her kids. If she acts like this often, or about other subjects, it maybe time to set some boundaries as others have suggested. Doesn't mean it's your fault, but boundaries might be beneficial if she's giving an attitude after all the financial help you guys give her.
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