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Parts of this are gonna seem like rants and unkind, so if you’re not into that look away now.



So I’m watching tv almost out. SO is completely out. The phone rings from two rooms over. It’s MIL.



His father has fallen again twice in a month, cracked his pelvis again, released from the ER again, and now again she needs her two full grown boys to hoist him over their steps that should have been converted to a ramp in 2020 but for their “independence” that would have allowed their quasi legal Indy, all 200 pounds, diabetic, kidney stones and with back pain she’s already divulged, to wheel him in there.



Nope, now she’s just a 105k year friend, they are comfy with her. Explain to me how she’s gonna lift this person, or will FIL be like that dude's dad limping around for lobster, crying independence, whatever.



SO is realistic. He’s like, my dad can’t walk and will be in a home. I’m like yeah he will unless they kit it out to be like a nursing home, with actual aides from a nurse registry to deal alongside the ones they have now. They can actually afford it by huge margins so let’s quit it with the clipping coupons, and super recycle frugality ok.



Its only the beginning of the end.

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In response to your last update. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Now here is a new perspective based on your other posts in this thread where you said FIL and Indy knows he needs more help. The resistance is coming from SIL and MIL. Since FIL is unable to stand up to these 2 women it is up to SO to do it for him.

Maybe rephrase to him as protecting dad by forcing wife to bring in qualified aides to help him. I can imagine how painful even the rolling him to change and clean him must be.

Either way unless SO is willing to ruffle some feathers, at this point nothing will change.
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Hey Kimber, I texted him your response. He’s back at work now going to some bs call far way plenty of time to deal with mommy on his drive down.
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IMO he needs to learn to say "No". He is entitled to a life separate from serving his parents. Whether he gets respect other than self respect is another question, But setting boundaries is healthy. Just make it clear to them what he won't do and what he will do (if he chooses to do anything). Then no matter the emergency, he needs to stick to his guns. There are other resources for his parents but as long as he fills their needs they won't choose otherwise. ((((((hugs)))))
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The MIL has changed all their appointments to so’s days off next week and texted him. His brother is not involved as bro has weekdays off, so he’s only involved in an unplanned emergency. SO, however, is being used to prop up grifting sils and mils care plan for free so that 70k sil and mil can enable each other into believing they need no more help.

I told him to just lie about his hours, say that the company is moving around his weekends. But he wants to tell his mom straight that his weekends are his own, ours really, and get respect. He needs a fog rain suit to stand up to her, any suggestions?
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Kimber166 Apr 2022
PeggySue - it is going to be hard for him. My husband and i were in therapy together  in order to set and hold boundaries against our bulldozer parents - masters of manipulation. We had to role play but we made it work.

The  main thing that helped us was that WE DO NOT NEED TO EXPLAIN. "no, that doesn't work for me" is all we need to say. We have the right to our time and do not need to come up with reasons.

We do not have to solve the problem for them.

To all of the "but i was counting on you, what are we going to do if you don't....., but there is no one else who can.... you are being selfish" we responded calmly "I'm sorry about that, but it doesn't work for me. I love you, bye" and hang up or leave.

What was frustrating to our parents - without our explaining, they could not argue us out of our stance "but i'll reschedule then you can..... what are you doing that you can't....." and we said "I've told  you, that won't work for me, I love you, bye" and LEAVE - either the house or hang up the phone.

We weren't rude, we were polite. But we were no longer doormats, dragged into doing what we did not want to do, had no time to do, because we were bulldozed. The first time we said "NO" and did our refuse-to-engage-lovingly-leave - and it worked - we high fived around the house - kids let out of school.

The parents won't like it and will do everything they can to regain control. "I'm sorry that doesn't work for me. I love you. Bye"

Good luck
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Oh, Peggy Sue - such a mess. The risk of injury - to FIL, to family members who try to care for him, and to the Indy CG - is off the charts. All of his care needs require 2 people, he needs a hospital bed and pressure shifting pad, and it sounds as if his bones are crumbling.
At his next trip to ER, call and speak to the case manager for the ER. It is his or her job to get the patient moved to the correct location for their care needs.
His care needs are not acute, so no hospital needed.
They might make a case for short term Medicare covered rehab stay in a skilled nursing facility.
Your job is to give them the name and number of the family member who is his POA for health care to help with discharge planning.
You and your husband are not going to be part of the plan of home care.
You believe he is an unsafe discharge to home, due to excessive care needs that can't be met in community.
If he does home anyway, call APS. They dont reveal who filed the report, but they can investigate....and try to get services in. Don't mention to family that you are thinking about APS - if you end up calling, they will accuse you for sure...and it's hard to credibly deny it when you are exhausted.
Maybe you and your spouse could change your phone number, and resign from the weekend rota. Otherwise your spouse's health and employment are going to suffer consequences....will be thinking of you.
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2022
Claire, thank you for the compassionate advice.

The in laws are poa for each other. We can’t talk to their docs or the er because what would we say? APS here has to deal with elders festering amid literal Home Depot buckets of waste, elders hooked on heroin and or homeless in their cars. They might offer solutions but most likely wouldn’t take action against a couple in a spotless house with technical 24/7 in an affluent part of town.

My mil was offered post acute rehab fully paid for by Medicare, while undergoing chemo. She said no because too much like a nursing home. Fil did go to rehab after his 2020 stroke, it was actually part of the hospital but he left early because, well family, pets, home.

The fil himself is of sound mind. They both are. He’s already asked the Indy if she knows someone, and he’s historically been the tighter screw financially. This is at least a start, realizing that every time he toilets it’s a mini catastrophe with his frail wife and her rah rah sycophantic dil trying to push, pull, roll to get him cleaned. And let’s talk about the sheets they both share in the dual medical bed.

The Sil is only making it worse on him by insisting she can do it all and reinforcing mil. And by being a tax cheat. The mil murmuring brothers, they’ll always help each other makes me want to throw things. They have a strong bond but the gritting sil has already created a case that will only increase. She thinks she is helping but in fact she is a paid enabler in that area.
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Whelp this is SOs weekend. With covid over and masks down, he has contracted cold or flu. Could be actual covid, we ran out of tests.

Ring ring. It’s mom saying that her and sil are going out, can he go over and stay with dad in his feverish state. Oh, he wouldn’t have to be close to him, she said.

He pointed out that this would obviate the reason he should even be there. He told them yesterday that he couldn’t be their solution so.

FIL is the only one who even tried to stand up to sil, to this arrangement. He obvi prefers the night weekend person who at least has a background in taking care of old people. He’s asked her if she knows anyone. This is at least a start. If he’s comfy then the mil will accept the new person, who will be a permanent person, because it turns out now that there’s a back fracture as well.
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Good luck PeggySue2020! Emergencies are always hard and stressful.
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2022
It’s been two years of emergencies and gaslighting.

The MIl truly believes the Indy is her personal family friend. As a professional, she’s actually paid to maintain distance, like not eating with us at family gatherings unless required to
assist. however when this 128 hour a week indy finally breaks something so hard that she won’t be able to work for that 105k and she’ll sue to feed the kids, grands or whomever like 99 percent of California workers ever. It’s not her fault things are set up this way as she has no authority. And as they haven’t bothered to investigate even respite, Fil will probably go to a home sooner, really.

Fil was actually more the one to stand up to this horrible baby Jane sil. I have never seen an in law so affixed on getting money as her. I’d really her be the one to break something.

If sil only could be a little less enabling, a real care plan would become a reality as there would be no other choice. I know we are supposed to respect the prime caregiver but I have zero for this woman.
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Is the dawn of reality risen yet?
Or is MIL still in fantasy-dream-land?

I get that people don't want to believe it when their LO becomes frail, ill, double incontinent, bedbound or needing full assistance.

Not believing does not change the facts.

Can SO explain it in facts yet? Or still describes the situation through the F.O.G goggles.
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update to my update.

They verified with the Indy that yes more help would be needed. So now they’re more receptive to it. But doing things on the legal wage and hour and workers comp wise, oh no it’s a bottomless pit, Oh, and the Indy has already gotten hurt and she’s so much like family that she’d never sue them. And then there’s the issue of a stage 4 cancer patient and the sil doing the regular bedrolls and transfers and all this.

My mom called to see how I was doing, and im like, did you put a chairlift on your stairs so dad could get up and down. Because two falls mom, and he’s gonna be like fil, double incontient in bed so then what happens.

She said he will go to a nursing home if that happens, simple as that. I verified that they did give poa, which is to my doctor sister. So as much as I was dads favorite, hey that’s the decision. I mean, you would think they’d put in a chairlift or get an incontinience aide to avoid this but that’s their decision.
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sp19690 Apr 2022
Part of the problem sounds like SIL does not want to lose that yearly income. Is SIL really willing to change the FIL daily for it? Time will tell. As for the Indy she has already gotten hurt helping these two is she really willing to risk permanent injury for her sweet salary too? It sounds like it.

I really hope your SO can be the voice of reason in all of this and at least stop his participation in the madness. It may go a long way in getting SIL and Indy to implement changes if they know he is not propping them up with the care FIL now requires due to recent fracture. Surely FIL is miserable with the pain he must be in and extra help and resources would only make his life more comfortable.

Sounds like communication is a big issue in this family. That MIL and FIL run the show and the adult kids just fall in line.
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BIG update on SO part.

He said to me that there were two things the Indy said to him. One, that she herself felt the need for additional help. Two, that while asking SO for help in the bed roll, she confided she was asking so she wouldn’t get hurt.

She sounded scared. Not like a grifter at all. Even we’re she perfectly healthy, this would still be a concern. It certainly is now that mil thinks that the sil and herself are gonna do a transfer or bed roll by themselves. Mil is a cancer patient who uses a walker. The sil is 67 or 68 and in worse shape than the Indy.

Someone here said they would need almost a corporate structure. Manager—that’d be SIL, is a great organizer and scheduler and driver and keeper of records. She can keep the files and contacts to make sure everyone is being paid according to regulation, she can make the contacts to agencies to ensure respite, and all of that, and she can assist in doing one half of the bed roll while someone else other than mil helps. Mil is herself a s4 cancer patient who’s not in clinical remission. The doctors basically think it’s only some time until it comes back. Let’s be prepared for it.

By the way, did admin make the forum first post to last? This is really distracting. Can it go back to newest post first please
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I shared with mil that I plan to use my savings to go into some care home when either double incontience or dementia show up. If I had to go on Medicaid the house I own would be exempt and he could live in it forever, what do I care when I’d be pissing and soiling myself and not even remembering things.

Oh, what a good person I am, she said, but she still thinks SO is gonna go beyond those expectations for her or fil. NO. It is on her now to bump that SIL out of a job or tell her that it’s on her to do a one man clean every time the fil soils or pisses himself as oppose to wait for the actual night indy to do it.
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sp19690 Apr 2022
Why wouldn't she think that SO will not help them? He has yet to set any boundaries with his parents. His continuing to be the solution means he is the solution in mom and dad's eyes.

And yes they should fire SIL and get a second one or two competent caregivers for the day shift.

Imagine sitting in urine and feces all say until night aide shows up. If FIL doesn't have skin issues now he will soon enough. Which can lead to infections and sores and UTIs
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Update 3.
Both brother and SO dropped by the house. The indy has a technique to roll him side to side to get stuff under him, and utilized a belt as kind of a pulley so that the patient can brace as this is all going on. STill, she requested help both times as it’s much easier with two people.

With SO, it was putting a towel under him. The brother got to see the live demo of removing soiled Depends. It remains to be seen how much of this sil can handle.

I know the ils are gonna go with that plan as long as no one gets hurt. I duly told SO it’d be better if that was the sil than the no family indy, who’d be more likely to sue. I implored him that come Wednesday to not be the one hurt for a non critical doctors. He won’t be suing either.

It is exasperating that there still seems little foresight, but I know the train will have to go totally off the wheels for them to look into more help.
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Beatty Apr 2022
If a few days of the new situation doesn't remove their denial, nothing will.

Keep to the script.

The care needs are now *insert*.
So you will need help for *insert*.
I will help with *insert*.
I will not help with *insert*.

Eg: Assistance: a bedbound person requiring full assist for all personal ADLs, bed rolls 2 x assist, transfers 3 x assist.
Equipment: Electric bed. Wheelchair. Commode. Possible hoist? Ramp (to allow home access).
Transport: Wheelchair transport (if able to sit) or non-emerg stretcher transport (if not).

Eg I will help by visiting & bringing some groceries.

Eg I will not help with personal care, toileting, transfers, transport.

Some people can make their boundaries clear from day 1 of a new health crises/change. Others wade in, find they stepped in quicksand & have to plot their steps out before they drown.

Another (shorter) script when they call for crises/fall/lift is: Hang up. Call 911.
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Update 2
As SO and I had predicted, mil asked him to take dad to the doctor on his day off. SO is gonna go over there but won’t be trying to lift down this guy in his wheelchair by himself. FIL is in such pain right now that he may not be able to even transfer to the chair from bed, so we’ll see.

I talked to a friend whose also on the same Medicare network as them and passed on the name of her pain management doc and told her that her husband used a medical transport, completely insurance paid for, for his appointments when the husband broke a hip.

They are not ready to hear about more help yet. If it comes To days of him not being able to transfer to the commode to avoid soiling, they will probably be more receptive.

This all seems incomplete I suppose
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I can imagine how overwhelming and frustrating this is for everyone. Call ur Office of Aging and see if they can supply a bus. They have the ability to have wheelchairs. Getting him out of the house is another thing. The boys have to put their foot down. They need to tell their parents that a ramp "is" being put in. That they are not going to ruin their backs and not be able to work when a ramp would be a big help. No ramp, don't call them, pay a transport service.

This whole scenario boggles my mind.😊 I would not marry into this family. Especially how it is now. And if I did, I would be moving far away.
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Beatty Apr 2022
The thing is, families change. Wasn't that long ago mine was full of healthy, firm folk in their prime. But *now*.. Some are cracked, withered, crumbly or puffy.
I'm not immune to some wrinking myself 😜
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Peggy, there are medical transport companies, or ambulances to do those transports.
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lealonnie1 Apr 2022
The ambulance transported my folks back AND forth to the ER each & every time they went, both ways. The co pay was $100 each way. Cheap at the price.
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It is. The beginning of the end I mean. I think they likely know that, Peggy. They can afford the inhome. They are lucky in the loving care of someone they like. But it is coming.
Best to be as pragmatic as you can. Basically you aren't enabling it a whole lot that I can see. Other than it should have been, as Barb says, a lift team 911 to get Dad in.
Don't let it be destructive to your own relationship. Let your guy be about his folks and his fishing friends; do your "own thing" whether that's reading, gardening, walking, whatever.
This all is what it is and I can hear resignation in your voice, which is a good thing.
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Why wasn't 911 called?

Is hospice involved?
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2022
They called 911 to get fil to the hospital yesterday morning. However, no fire department provides return service. Are there medical ubers with paramedics to take this chair and him down and transfer him to the doctors?
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Hip fractures are so common among the elderly. Old age affect balance naturally. Alzheimer's patients fall all the time. Hip replacement surgery is extremely risky in the older population. Many patients never recover from a hip fractures. Falls are a frequent cause of death in many old folks. Falls prevention is paramount.
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sp19690 Apr 2022
That is all true Tchamp.
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Update, It took three people to lift fil, in wheelchair, past their three steps and into the house and get him to bed.

There’s a commode by the bed now. They are hoping to get him into it. If not, I hope the weekend Indy knows how to change/clean no 2 for a bedridden person. I know SIL doesn’t. And come This week, more appointments. No plans for how to get him down steps in a chair.
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sp19690 Apr 2022
Lifting dead weight like FIL is now is a recipe for a debilitating back injury for your husband. If he injures himself and can't work what will hapoen then?

This madness needs to stop before that happens.

They have plenty of money to hire appropriate care without relying on sons who are not exactly spring chickens themselves.

Sounds like sons, mom, dad, and caregiver and SIL all need to sit down and have a long talk about what is going on.
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"she needs her two full grown boys to hoist him over their steps"

What if one was ill/injured/on holidays - or said no ?
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I'm sorry. Peggy Sue. Sounds like fil is headed for a home soon and it can't be soon enough.
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So the indy caregiver earns $105,000/year? I must have missed that. I know your SIL gets $70,000 (or is it $75,000?)/year.

So your SO ran over to help hoist his father over the steps, right?

Nothing changes. Your SO has no intention of changing anything, does he?
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2022
Brother was the one called upon yesterday to deal with the issue, which happened at 6 am. He had to do the running around all day for this but when it came to the lift up, they needed another man.

I didn’t mean to bag on the Indy so hard. But they just need more pieces to their team, plus backup pieces, plus for crying out loud a payroll system.
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So they are paying someone 105k a year to do nothing?!
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sp19690 Apr 2022
We should all be so lucky to find a job like that.
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With every fall and hospitalization FIL is in more danger of dying.

They need to hire a competent caregiver not one with a whole host of issues like you describe. Doesn't SIL also get paid handsomely too?

Whats the point of paying all this money to caregivers when these caregivers cannot do much to help? At 200,000 a year they could live in a really nice assisted living place.

Unless your husband stops helping them this situation won't change. If he can't stop helping maybe he should charge them 2500 each time he has to go over and help them.
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Of course, if he had to fall, he had to wait till almost midnight to do it. He couldn't possibly fall during the day.

PeggySue, so sorry for your burden.
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MargaretMcKen Apr 2022
Not just midnight, on the weekend as well.
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Sorry to hear!
Ring ring.
Who's there?
No, no joke.. just another cracked bone 😣.

A blessing is your SO's realism & yours too! Keep that up.

Can't walk? Will need a wheelchair.
Can't stand? Need a hoist lifter.
Yes they can deck their house out like a NH, or hey, like one poster said.. like a cruise ship there were so many hand rails 😂. Plus the crew to run it & a Captain to oversee too.

Gosh, imagine if your SO said well now FIL is going to need us to lift him, carry him, wash & dry him. Oh & by 'us'.. I'm real busy so I mean 'you'.
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hug!!
very sorry to hear about your FIL.

and i feel very sorry for you, everyone involved.

so much stress.

it’s often such a rollercoaster, trying to help, especially if they don’t plan better, hire more help.

so many things are preventable - just need more hired help, but sometimes our LOs refuse and continue to go through preventable emergencies - and the stress lands on us, too.

i hope soon things are much better, peggysue!
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