Follow
Share

My father had been declining noticeably, both physically and mentally, over the last few years, but had always refused help. He was then hospitalized for a month and I found out about many overdue bills which needed to be paid. At this time he gave me access to his checking account w/ debit card. Based on whatever clues he could offer and access to his PC I figured out his account names or PWs for the utilities he had once been paying (manual payments monthly, never autopay, hence the past due issues). So I got all of his accounts auto paying with whatever method he had on file.


FF to this year and his mental and physical states have dropped hard and fast, like falling off a cliff. He then suffered a stroke and other medical issues which has left him in a wheel chair and virtually unable to communicate, certainly not at a level that legal proceedings would require. As you might guess from the above description nobody has been granted PoA for any aspect of his care or finances. All I have is this bank account. We have started the slow process of petitioning conservatorship where we will eventually be able to apply his savings to care for him, but until then we can't convert the savings (retirement, stocks, etc) into cash to do so. Not all of this is pertinent but I thought I'd tell more of the story.


My question has to do with a recent issue I noticed with his checking account. Two ACH withdrawals have occurred this month that I had not authorized, and dad couldn't physically have done it. Both are withdrawals for utilities. Utilities dad uses or has used. The first one was to the TV/cable company, but that account had been shut down and paid off months ago. I can't even access it online anymore since they discontinue access immediately upon account closing. The other, very recent withdrawal is to the electric company. I have access and no such payment has been applied. That account is paid in full and on autopay. I called both utilities and they have no record, both telling me to contact my bank.


So, I figured out with fair certainty that someone has found dad's first name, last name, account number, and routing number. The same four things that are on any check. Or available if an ACH transfer was done by phone or internet and the data stolen. My guess is that someone received a paper check from him in the somewhat recent past and is paying their utilities with his bank info. It really is that easy. I know because I've set up one time payments and recurring auto payments with only those four pieces of info. This is scary. I've contacted the bank and had to pretend to be him, which I hate, but it was the only recourse to start an investigation. Whether they refund the money or not, a process that can take up to 90 days, this thief or anyone else who has this easy to obtain info could do the same thing again. The bank's suggestion is to change the account number. Dad is not capable and I can't legally do this. It must be done in-branch.


Does anyone know of a legal method, given these extenuating circumstances, to apply to the bank as a joint bank account owner, or act as proxy without any PoA? I would like to get this done before the months and months of conservatorship petition process has completed. The account could continue to be hacked until I do something.



I was thinking of one far fetched possibility; if a kind executive soul at the bank was willing to arrange a notarized type of meeting at dad's memory care center. Dad can answer some questions properly but gets distracted due to the dementia. Maybe I could be granted joint ownership that way just like if we both were to go into a branch. I can account for every expenditure I have made since he originally granted me access two years ago, so maybe an overwhelming amount of evidence and their compassion could get this done.


Are there express legal forms and proceedings for this situation, short of achieving PoA?

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
See an elder law attorney. He/she will assist you in getting conservatorship and in describing your duties re meticulous record keeping ongoing for your Father.
This is a big job. I was made Trustee of Trust and POA for my bro. It takes great effort to get it all arranged. The first year especially is TOUGH. It must be done correctly and records well- kept so that there can never be accusations of fraud, or discrepancies in "lookback" for services.

There are times, whether the question is medical, legal or financial when an expert is the only answer. As you observe, it's too late for POA. See an elder law attorney as soon as possible.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
qloopp Apr 2023
I wrote the whole story to explain as much as possible. I am currently in the early stages of petitioning conservatorship with an elder law firm.

Hopefully there is a way to get control of the account before it is effectively "frozen" by the courts, simply to change the account number to stop this one thief from his fraud attempts.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
You could ask the bank to come to him, but I don't think it would work because banks can't have their employees running around changing bank accounts all over the place. It's probably against regulations to do this, even if dad were capable. And in instances when I had to use POA with a bank (for my dad, for instance), it was not simple. It took at least 45 minutes in the bank while they verified this and that. The bank officer even knew my dad, and so did her father, so it's not like dad and I were suspect fraudsters.

You're handling it as well as anyone could. Is it possible for you to open new joint accounts at new banks with dad? Possibly online (Ally, Capital One, Comenity Bread and others where it's easy to set it up from home)? And he then transfers all money to the new joint accounts? He could write a check or you could, with his permission, transfer it online from his old bank to the new one.

If that could work, you'd have to change all his autopays outgoing from the new account. Maybe it would be worth it. Maybe not.

It's worth looking into. You're right to be worried. A few days go I posed on a thread about my LO being scammed and their money going to an out-of-state bank account for months before they discovered it. Be vigilant!
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
qloopptest Apr 2023
I hadn't thought about online only banks. I could give that a try. It would seem that more verification would be required but it's worth a shot. Thanks!
(0)
Report
If the bank will not work with you, you can become his representative payee for his Social Security and that would give you the ability to close the current account and open a new one that he or others can not access.

This is what I would do in this situation. It might even speed up the conservator proceedings.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
MACinCT Apr 2023
For representative payee, dad has to physically appear to Social Security unless he has an online account where he can go in and fill out online. It is easy online to name someone. Most accounts have a contact email or phone from which a security code is sent to unlock the account
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Since you have online access for his bank account, look at the the transaction history. You can get the ACH info very easy. It shows the company name, phone number account number,etc. Then you'll be able to stop unauthorized payments. Do you have any siblings that might have stolen your dads bank info?
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
qloopptest Apr 2023
One sibling and he doesn't have the same electric company being that he lives out of state. I trust him at any rate. I contacted the bank and they have started the investigation. If they try at all it should be easy to see that my utility accounts did not benefit from these transactions, and a little more digging could find whose did, assuming they are allowed to request basic transactional search results from said utilities.
(0)
Report
I hope you are petitioning for emergency conservatorship.
Have you reported to police? I assume you called both utilities? Do contact the companies who are actually billing to let them know you are working with the court.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
qloopptest Apr 2023
I will see if the police want to take a report. As stated I have called the utilities. They didn't seem to want to help. His bank is the only place that has demonstrated willingness to help, but their investigation process is long and not guaranteed of a satisfactory outcome.
(0)
Report
After lockdown was lifted my parents asked me to take them to the bank.
The hubs and I did just that along with their trust documents. My parents asked the bank add me on to their accounts. The bank guy looked the trust and said ok.
All the paper work was taken of right then and there. It was pretty easy.
We had to make an appointment.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
qloopptest Apr 2023
I wish we had a trust or PoA. Of course he declined to help us help him in any way when he was more capable and had the many opportunities. Years of back and forth with an elder care firm ended in absolute squat.
(0)
Report
I made a test account to reply to my original post as "qloopp". I can't sign back into my original account despite knowing my UN, email, and PW. The "forgot your PW" link claims to send an email to my original address used to sign up but it never appears. I know that address has been validated because I received emails from Aging Care yesterday after creating an account.

I hope this is a temporary glitch.

If I continue to have trouble signing in to my original account I will try to reply to you all via this "test" account. Thank you all for your helpful replies.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
qloopptest Apr 2023
It doesn't appear this situation will be rectified and I can't find a help link to notify a forum moderator, so I will continue as qloopptest from now on, or until this new account also fails to work :-)
(0)
Report
gloop, hopefully you get this resolved soon. It's pretty easy to review transaction history online or with monthly statements. You can stop the 'hacker' yourself by finding the unauthorized ACH info and having the bank flag it & filing a police report for theft. Just a thought
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

The ACH theft issue is important re credit bureaus because if the thief has enough info to steal money from the checking account, they may have enough info (ID theft) to buy something on credit in dad's name. Like a car. The entity giving the loan to the imposter will check the credit, and you say your dad has bad credit anyway. That's not a safeguard.

In my circle of acquaintances, there was a guy who had no credit. Couldn't even get a credit card. He managed to get a finance company to loan money for a car, made few payments, wrecked the car and died. No one could figure out how he got a loan in the first place, but he did and in his own name. But what if he'd gotten the loan in someone else's name and they were stuck with the payments?

Freeze the credit. Three main companies, and you can easily do it online.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter