Fortune Cookie Diagnostics is absolutely BRILLIANT! I was laughing so hard. I need a laugh too. @TChamp, she really nailed you on that one, my friend LOL
Yes. If I had a dime for every time my mother faked an illness or injury for attention from family or doctors, I'd be able to retire in a beachfront condo in Maui.
Tchamp, not everyone would agree with you. ‘Histrionic Personality Disorder’ is not a mental illness that I have heard of before – is it on the official mental health list? Fakers probably can’t fake a serious illness that requires a medical diagnosis, but they can easily fake an emergency like falling or a sudden pain, and they do.
Carers have indeed ‘cured’ this by not providing the desired response. A 300lb faker in reasonable health might be fine left on the floor for a couple of hours, with a pillow and a blanket. "They said they had a lot of emergencies so it might be several hours for just a lift". When the suspect gets too bored, they might even decide to try to get up themselves – roll over, prop on hands and knees, lean on the seat of a chair etc. It could be a useful experiment.
You do sound authoritative. Please could you explain your own role in the medical hierarchy?
MargaretMken: 1- Histrionic Personality Disorder is included in the Cluster B of personality Disorders, along with Borderline, Narcissistic and Antisocial. DSM-5 (APA) 2- ICD-10 International classification of mental disorders, published by OMS, under F60.4
Perhaps the most frequent problem caregivers face, are people with Histrionic personality disorder. They don't fake sickness but they do dramatize every little symptom they have in order to get attention. Of course, his affects people without dementia. Once they develop dementia, they lose any previous type of personality they had before, whether normal or abnormal.
That would be when it's time for placement in a facility, TChamp. When every little thing turns into an emergency and crisis. My mother has histrionic personality disorder. That mental disorder sure describes exactly what she's been like all my life. Of course she's always refused any kind of mental health care. Her mother (my grandmother) was the same way only my aunt, not my mother, had to bear the brunt of that misery. My mother's constant hysterics and hypochondria ruined my childhood, adolescence, much of my 20's and the last few years of my life now. There comes a time when a caregiver for their own sake has to walk away whether the crises are real or not. I'm walking away now because I have to. Even though my mother was abusive I still love her. I love myself more though and that's why I'm walking away from caregiving.
I'm witnessing right now a situation where I believe this is exactly what is going on and it's extremely awful and stressful even though I'm determined to stay on the sidelines, as I can't deal with the stress.
To: Isthisrealyreal: I'm sure you're a nice and good person, but can I say this? I've seen some other forums where people use this exact same language: "I almost blew coffee through my nose." I find it graphic and really crude and I'm not sure what it's meant to convey -- I guess the feeling is that it's ridiculously funny (for you, anyway) as you've been there, done that. A better choice of words would be more appropriate, I believe. End of Rant for the Day.
The answer to this is 100% yes. My mother is a master of it and has done this most of her adult life. My grandmother used to do it too and my mother learned to do it from her. Like Burnt Caregiver my mother does this on "special occasions" because she wants the attention off anyone/anything other than her.
I don't think anyone ever wants to think of their loved ones of any age faking any injury or illness period. But I think as long as someone has mental capacity, they have the capacity to deceive if the need arises. That's not to say they are necessarily meaning to be deceitful for horrible reasons, but I do believe they have the capacity.
For many, that could be as simple as faking a sneeze to get attention. For others it goes as far as what TChamp mentioned, Munchausen's Syndrome (and in some horrifying cases, Munchausen's by Proxy where they actually make their children sick) which is the other end of the continuum.
There is another continuum though. It depends on the loved one. If they are lonely and maybe wanting for a little bit of attention, a little sneeze here or cough, or maybe an extra trip to the doctor's office. But then you have those who have personality disorders their entire lives and the "faking" can reach new levels. Unfortunately in our family we have had to learn to discern between the real and the fake. With us, it ranges from real and fake illnesses to real and fake falls. It's hard to believe that someone my FIL's size and mobility level could actually fake a fall and when it first happened not one of us even mentioned to the other that we thought he had faked it, we were ashamed we even thought it. But there were things that didn't add up. And there were very clearly differences between what we finally discussed and realized was a staged fall and his real falls. And then it happened again. And again. And then he finally had another real fall to compare it to. And it was like night and day.
It sounds absolutely cringeworthy to even consider that an elderly loved one would fake something. But deep down why. Just because someone ages doesn't mean they aren't human. People have capacity for a lot of things. If they had the capacity to do certain things when they were younger, and they still have the mental ability to plan and process, there is no reason why they can't still execute it. It just depends on their physical ability and the need and what they are trying to achieve.
No, not every single elderly loved one is going to fake an illness or injury. First because not every single one wants that kind of attention or wants to go to the doctor. But there are definitely those that desire that kind of attention and there are those like my FIL that have a frequent flyer card at the hospital and doctors offices and crave visiting the hospital and their goal is always to have first responders come to their home often and have their family in emergency response mode as often as possible. So there are most definitely those who will fake an illness or injury to get what they want.
My mother fakes health crises and stages "performances" all the time. She's old now but always did since I was a little kid. It's for attention but it's also her martyrdom which everyone had to suffer from for decades. She also likes to ruin special ocassions. This isn't new either. This has been so since I was a little kid as well. I think there are many people like me who stopped wondering 'deep down why' some people behave this way. We become indifferent to it whether it's real or not. My mother has had some real health issues (not life-threatening) and I am the one who has had to bring her to the ER and sit there. Every time she would be very upset acting like she didn't understand why I wasn't holding her hand and speaking in a soothing voice to calm her down. She abused my care and compassion. That spring dried up years ago. Does your FIL know the story of the boy who cried wolf? If he doesn't you should tell it to him. The boy was bored and got all the village running because he claimed there was wolves going after his flock. Then he'd have a laugh because everyone looked like fools for running to help him. Then one day the wolves came for real. He yelled and cried for help but by now the villagers were used to his "performances" and paid him no mind. Then the wolves ate his flock. I actually bought my mother a copy of this children's story. All caregivers should give a copy to their elderly care recipients. Because I was a caregiver for so long after I work for a person for a while I can tell real from fake. I always made it a point for clients and families to understand that "performances" will not result in more attention from me, it will be less. I would completely ingore a client who was putting on a show for me. I don't play that game and have always made sure everyone knows it. Usually clients would save the act for their family members instead because they got nowhere with me.
When someone is pretending intentionally to look sick but without secondary material gains is called: "Munchausen's syndrome" or "factitious disorder". If the same person does the same thing but with the intention to get secondary gains, it is called "malingering". An old person without dementia could do either of those two things. However, people with dementia don't do a good job at faking sickness, because it requires intelligent planning and good acting.
I must disagree. I've worked for many elderly people with dementia where there was fall faking or everything was an emergency. They would be found out quickly though. Someone would forget to limp or wince in pain. Or stop hyperventilating and grabbing their chest like a heart attack. Everything being a crisis with an elderly person that has dementia happens all the time.
A pattern establishes. This is how you can tell fake from real. Also, when it's real you can tell it's a performance. Timing. When do the "crises" and "falls" occur? Is it after the hired caregivers go home and there's no one to cater to them and they want attention? How about if they know what time their adult kids are getting home from work? Or on the weekends? Or when they seem to get sick or fall when there's a plans for a holiday, vacation, or special ocassion? Once you recognize a pattern that's how you can tell what's fake.
For an elderly person? SURE. For ANY person. Why not? As to doing this if you suffer from any dementia, that's less likely imho. Depends on the level of dementia. I would say to get a good purposeful plan that is remembered and acted upon would be rare indeed. As to whether we might be a bit dramatic about an ache or a pain, I think that isn't only possible, but probable.
Faking illness and staging falls is not just possible, it happens all the time with the elderly. These kinds of "performances" are usually to get attention, but sometimes there's another reason. Jealousy. If their caregivers (usually a family caregiver) has a special ocassion planned or a vacation that the elder is not part of, they will need a trip to the ER for a "fall" or some medical issue. Then will be fine after their caregiver has missed out. This happens often as well.
Yes, it's possible, but it should be the last thing you think of. Faking takes a lot of energy, planning, and is rarely successful.
I prefer to think the best of someone before thinking the worst. Take them to a doctor, and the doctor should be able to determine what's wrong. If they find nothing wrong, then there may still be something "off" that's tough to diagnose.
Just imagine being elderly, knowing you're days are numbered, feeling lonely, and afraid. What might you do to get people to treat you like a person and not a burden or a job?
Fortune Cookie Diagnostics is absolutely BRILLIANT! I was laughing so hard. I need a laugh too.
@TChamp, she really nailed you on that one, my friend LOL
Carers have indeed ‘cured’ this by not providing the desired response. A 300lb faker in reasonable health might be fine left on the floor for a couple of hours, with a pillow and a blanket. "They said they had a lot of emergencies so it might be several hours for just a lift". When the suspect gets too bored, they might even decide to try to get up themselves – roll over, prop on hands and knees, lean on the seat of a chair etc. It could be a useful experiment.
You do sound authoritative. Please could you explain your own role in the medical hierarchy?
1- Histrionic Personality Disorder is included in the Cluster B of personality Disorders, along with Borderline, Narcissistic and Antisocial. DSM-5 (APA)
2- ICD-10 International classification of mental disorders, published by OMS, under F60.4
My mother has histrionic personality disorder. That mental disorder sure describes exactly what she's been like all my life. Of course she's always refused any kind of mental health care. Her mother (my grandmother) was the same way only my aunt, not my mother, had to bear the brunt of that misery.
My mother's constant hysterics and hypochondria ruined my childhood, adolescence, much of my 20's and the last few years of my life now. There comes a time when a caregiver for their own sake has to walk away whether the crises are real or not.
I'm walking away now because I have to. Even though my mother was abusive I still love her. I love myself more though and that's why I'm walking away from caregiving.
Yes, it is possible.
To: Isthisrealyreal: I'm sure you're a nice and good person, but can I say this? I've seen some other forums where people use this exact same language: "I almost blew coffee through my nose." I find it graphic and really crude and I'm not sure what it's meant to convey -- I guess the feeling is that it's ridiculously funny (for you, anyway) as you've been there, done that. A better choice of words would be more appropriate, I believe. End of Rant for the Day.
For many, that could be as simple as faking a sneeze to get attention. For others it goes as far as what TChamp mentioned, Munchausen's Syndrome (and in some horrifying cases, Munchausen's by Proxy where they actually make their children sick) which is the other end of the continuum.
There is another continuum though. It depends on the loved one. If they are lonely and maybe wanting for a little bit of attention, a little sneeze here or cough, or maybe an extra trip to the doctor's office. But then you have those who have personality disorders their entire lives and the "faking" can reach new levels. Unfortunately in our family we have had to learn to discern between the real and the fake. With us, it ranges from real and fake illnesses to real and fake falls. It's hard to believe that someone my FIL's size and mobility level could actually fake a fall and when it first happened not one of us even mentioned to the other that we thought he had faked it, we were ashamed we even thought it. But there were things that didn't add up. And there were very clearly differences between what we finally discussed and realized was a staged fall and his real falls. And then it happened again. And again. And then he finally had another real fall to compare it to. And it was like night and day.
It sounds absolutely cringeworthy to even consider that an elderly loved one would fake something. But deep down why. Just because someone ages doesn't mean they aren't human. People have capacity for a lot of things. If they had the capacity to do certain things when they were younger, and they still have the mental ability to plan and process, there is no reason why they can't still execute it. It just depends on their physical ability and the need and what they are trying to achieve.
No, not every single elderly loved one is going to fake an illness or injury. First because not every single one wants that kind of attention or wants to go to the doctor. But there are definitely those that desire that kind of attention and there are those like my FIL that have a frequent flyer card at the hospital and doctors offices and crave visiting the hospital and their goal is always to have first responders come to their home often and have their family in emergency response mode as often as possible. So there are most definitely those who will fake an illness or injury to get what they want.
She's old now but always did since I was a little kid. It's for attention but it's also her martyrdom which everyone had to suffer from for decades. She also likes to ruin special ocassions. This isn't new either. This has been so since I was a little kid as well.
I think there are many people like me who stopped wondering 'deep down why' some people behave this way. We become indifferent to it whether it's real or not. My mother has had some real health issues (not life-threatening) and I am the one who has had to bring her to the ER and sit there. Every time she would be very upset acting like she didn't understand why I wasn't holding her hand and speaking in a soothing voice to calm her down.
She abused my care and compassion. That spring dried up years ago.
Does your FIL know the story of the boy who cried wolf? If he doesn't you should tell it to him.
The boy was bored and got all the village running because he claimed there was wolves going after his flock. Then he'd have a laugh because everyone looked like fools for running to help him.
Then one day the wolves came for real. He yelled and cried for help but by now the villagers were used to his "performances" and paid him no mind. Then the wolves ate his flock.
I actually bought my mother a copy of this children's story. All caregivers should give a copy to their elderly care recipients.
Because I was a caregiver for so long after I work for a person for a while I can tell real from fake. I always made it a point for clients and families to understand that "performances" will not result in more attention from me, it will be less. I would completely ingore a client who was putting on a show for me. I don't play that game and have always made sure everyone knows it.
Usually clients would save the act for their family members instead because they got nowhere with me.
I must disagree. I've worked for many elderly people with dementia where there was fall faking or everything was an emergency. They would be found out quickly though. Someone would forget to limp or wince in pain. Or stop hyperventilating and grabbing their chest like a heart attack.
Everything being a crisis with an elderly person that has dementia happens all the time.
What's going on to suspect fake, rather than real?
A pattern establishes. This is how you can tell fake from real. Also, when it's real you can tell it's a performance.
Timing. When do the "crises" and "falls" occur? Is it after the hired caregivers go home and there's no one to cater to them and they want attention?
How about if they know what time their adult kids are getting home from work? Or on the weekends? Or when they seem to get sick or fall when there's a plans for a holiday, vacation, or special ocassion?
Once you recognize a pattern that's how you can tell what's fake.
As to doing this if you suffer from any dementia, that's less likely imho. Depends on the level of dementia. I would say to get a good purposeful plan that is remembered and acted upon would be rare indeed. As to whether we might be a bit dramatic about an ache or a pain, I think that isn't only possible, but probable.
These kinds of "performances" are usually to get attention, but sometimes there's another reason. Jealousy. If their caregivers (usually a family caregiver) has a special ocassion planned or a vacation that the elder is not part of, they will need a trip to the ER for a "fall" or some medical issue. Then will be fine after their caregiver has missed out. This happens often as well.
I prefer to think the best of someone before thinking the worst. Take them to a doctor, and the doctor should be able to determine what's wrong. If they find nothing wrong, then there may still be something "off" that's tough to diagnose.
Just imagine being elderly, knowing you're days are numbered, feeling lonely, and afraid. What might you do to get people to treat you like a person and not a burden or a job?