Is it normal she's so negative?

Can't you hire someone to do the cleaning? With her money?

I mean really. Cleaning up her sh*t? Literally? Why are you paying the price for her refusal to wear protective undergarments.?

Hello. I recently self-diagnosed my 85 year old mother as narcissistic personality disorder (npd). Ok, lets strip the word "recently" out of that sentence. It's more like "Oh my! There's a name for this?!?" First, when push comes to shove, she CAN take care of herself. She can get dressed, walk with a walker through the house, and shower. She refuses. For 1.5 years she's laid in bed, demanding her husband get things for her. "Bill! Bill! Get me some water! Bill, Bill! I sh*t on the floor again. I can't reach down and clean it up!" Three weeks ago "Bill" was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. Her first words...."What about me?? What am I suppose to do? Where will I live when he dies??"

That's when I started looking up npd. Here's the funny thing about growing up with dysfunction. You only notice it when it happens to someone else. Seeing how she was reacting to my step-father made me realize "this is wrong. This is.... sick."

She refuses to wear diapers, refuses to admit she sabotages herself, has "convenient memory loss" when it suits her needs (my step sister took her to a doctor who declared her memory is just fine. I told her it's her "manipulation" that's getting rusty.) I ask my step-dad what he needs, and she pipes up "I could use a bottle of water!"

So as I head over today to empty the trash, clean the cat box, and take the trash cans to the curb, and then mop up her feces (again) and relay plastic from the bedroom to the bathroom (again), while trying to determine how my step-dad is holding up, wish me luck. I've been setting many boundaries lately. Consequently she's now posting "I love my daughter" on Facebook. Does having your npd parent publicly claim something they've NEVER said TO you make anyone else's skin crawl?

Thanks for listening! (Did I mention she drank my first 13 years of life, and has been sober for almost 45 years. Gotta love a "dry drunk" npd!!)

If I didn't know better, I would think I made these posts. I am in the exact same boat. Learning very slowly that I do not have to take the negativity and I do not have to be there to pick up the pieces should things fall apart when she insists on leaving the facility to go home to her old ways.

Hello everyone--I haven't posted in a while, but I feel compelled to do so now after reading momsonlychild's comments, and Jeweltone's also! Verbal abuse is unacceptable. I think even cognitively impaired adults can learn some basics. I have been in and out of counseling for much of my life--and I have finally reached some goals that I thought were unattainable. I think for my whole life, as an only child, with a wonderful father who just could not stand up to my mother, I felt responsible for her happiness and was fearful that if I did not rise to her beck and call she would reject me. Although my mother had some horrible separations from loved ones as a young child, she can still choose to be a kinder human being as an adult. Anyhow, like I said, I think for my whole life I feared she would ultimately reject me, and guess what? The other day, I didn't make her feel extra special about Mother's Day because I said I missed my own children and didn't reassure her that she was very special and how grateful I was for her, etc. (I am making a long story quite short here...). As a result she started to do her cold shoulder thing, which then progressed to the actual rejection I always feared. I went to her house to check on her and she screamed at me to GET OUT. I didn't have a mother anymore--I had killed her! She kept screaming to GET out! GET OUT! So I left. She called after that and proceeded to continue to scream at me that I had no more mother and I should find a new mother. She said she would never see me again on Mother's Day. I told her that I had indeed found a new mother inside of myself. I could give myself the unconditional love that I never received. I am sure she didn't understand but whatever. Later she called and we talked in a more reasonable way, and the next day she said she was so sorry she said those things to me, but I think she has already put the whole thing out of her head. Do I think she has cognitive issues at 90? Yes, but not very much--she drives, cooks, dresses nicely, and carries on pretty much the way she always did. She is just a bit more extreme now. So... the thing I feared most came and went, and I am stronger for it. The next time she even hints of treating me like that, I will leave. No more--not ever again.

Lastly, momsonlychild, your mother is only 75. I am 64, and I cannot imagine expecting my children to take care of me like that. Unless she is house bound or very ill, etc., get going with your own life! She'd that guilt and fear--get hep if you need to. There is still lots fo time for you, and don't waste any more of it than you have already. I wish you freedom and joy! You are entitled to these!

I'm sure everyone gets tired of my saying this, but...had been evaluated by a geriatric psychiatrist? Sometimes the right combination of meds for depression, anxiety and agitation can make the lives of the elderly happier and calmer. It certainly was true for my mom.

She constantly yells at me and it really gets to me. She's very stubborn and difficult to deal with. I want to take care of her and it would kill me and her to put her somewhere else. I need help in learning how to deal with all of this and more.

I am having such a hard time with my mom's anger. She's always had an angry undertone but it was nothing like she is now. She's 75 and lives in a condo around the corner from mine so that I can check on her daily. I find comfort in knowing I can get to her in 10 seconds. I do everything for her such as paying bills, taking her to dr appts, different places. I allow her to drive within a 3-5 mile radius of home due to her dementia. She also can't hear well but yet refuses to wear the hearing aide we got for her.

((HUGS)) Jeweltone. I know it is very difficult & all too common. I'll share with you what I learned thru therapy. As long as your Mother is safe & well taken care of, you have the right to choose when to call her, when to visit her, & when to cut the visit short when she starts with her negativity. I understand it is difficult & guilt may accompany your decisions, but each time you incorporate this practice, it reinforces the behavior not only in you, but in your Mother. It took me way too many years to learn this, but when you know better, you do better.

Hello All, Love reading your posts. I can relate in so many ways. Yes, I am still staying away. My aunt went a couple weeks ago to help out and my mom is starting to now treat her the same way. Even though she didn't treat her very nice, she tolerated her better than she did me. My aunt called me with a quiver in her voice and I felt so sorry for her. She told me she now really knows how I felt. She said she thinks my mom gets joy out of being mean. She stated my mom got right in her face. My aunt told her is was really low of her to act this way and my mom said "yea, it is really low of you"... she means that. She does get joy from your misery. Very sad. She is a very sad and miserable person.
Things at home have been stressful for other reasons not due to my mom and I keep asking myself "is this because I am not seeing my mom?" "Am I being punished in some way"...I realize the guilt does this. My aunt has remeasured me many times this is not the case. I am so relieved that the stress is not coming from my mom. At least there are times I can laugh and smile. When I was seeing her on a weekly basis, I was so depressed from the negativity. If my mom had not been like this all her life, I would say, oh it's the disease. It's her! The disease has just caused it to be seen by others not just family. She was so good at hiding her meanness to others and how dare if I ever "spill the beans". She could and still can manipulate like no other. I am just glad it's not me anymore. I do feel very sorry for those that take care of her. At AL I found out that they weren't giving my mom a schedule of activities and the girl over the schedule stated that my mom won't come out for any of them and she complains when she does. I had to speak up and say "Actually, it is my mom's choice if she comes out" it is up to the activity director to give her a schedule. See, they don't even want her out...how sad is that. I so worry since they have a new director, they may put her out for being so hateful to the staff. Then what?!? I try really hard not to think about that.
My mom takes antidepressant and anxiety medicine. She did, this past summer, stop taking her meds and ended up in the hospital from anxiety attacks. The director at the time took her meds and started giving them to her. I think the new director have given her pills back to her to be responsible for-since it is AL they only assist and don't hand out their medications. Without the medicine it is even worse.--if you can only imagine that.
Thank you again for listening when I get things on my mind. I think about each of you and your struggles--they are real. Be bold and stand up for what you know is right--right for you!!

Also, a good night's sleep works wonders in the way you feel. Maybe you need to be checked for sleep apnea too?? It's worth a try.
We have to take care of ourselves so we can be there for our kids as well.

Hi and I took mom to a pulmonologist last week. She has emphysema but also severe sleep apnea. The Dr stated sleep apnea causes dementia like symptoms, depression, heart disease, diabetes, incontinence, getting up all night to use the bathroom, stroke, and mood swings to name a few! So that being said, she has to do a sleep study and wear a c pap at night to keep her airways open. What happens is the airways close shut from being too relaxed and the brain wakes them up to tell them to breathe cause it needs oxygen. Hope this helps..She too was diagnosed with depression, dementia, is very negative and complains about everything. Plus blames it on me. Everything wrong in her world is my fault. You're right about not wanting to be around her. I hate even having to live with her but she's on a lot of medicines and needs monitoring plus this is her home. I took care of dad before he passed so it's her turn now. I myself am going to also get checked for sleep apnea. Hope this helps. Hopefully mom's negativity will pass and she will have a better quality of life. Hence, less negativity and stress on me!!!

These are the things I experience when visiting my grandmother, perhaps not quite so much the outward negativity directly at me but I know it lurks beneath. I have learned not to take the bait! She is pushing your buttons and you are reacting. Get some help from a trusted source or therapist to deal with her negativity/anger. You will not change her but YOU CAN CHANGE how you respond to her. She is controlling you. Learn to deal with her controlling abusive behavior aimed at you, her negativity, and things should go better. When I visit, I don't engage in her negativity. I let things go in one ear and out the other. I encourage positive conversations about things I know she likes to yack about.  Just listening to her (boring stuff) and giving her attention is usually good.  It may be repeated stories given her dementia but that's okay, I've given up on her caring much about me or my life because that's just not who she is, and she doesn't remember much anyhow. I don't tell her anything she can use against me later. When I visit I bring things to lighten the mood, like my cat. It's usually a 3-day visit! Take a dog or other pet to divert attention. Take magazines, plan to cook meals, have a mutual friend come visit that puts her in a good mood. Find things that take away the negativity, opportunities that fuel her anger. Disrupt the situation as much as you can so you are more in control of YOUR situation on your visit so the vibe is a more positive one. I would suggest not answering the phone as much and telling fibs to reduce your calls. You must reduce the negativity, and stop taking her bait. Recognize these clear signs and I guarantee you, your dynamics will change. It will get you through these remaining years and keep your sanity. I wish you good health.  

Let me add it's perfectly acceptable to have the feelings you do.  It's okay to share with trusted friends.  As caregivers many of us go through difficult times, we don't like the situation.  We need people to talk to.  It's important for our own mental health, and you must always take care of yourself.  Never, ever feel guilty about your feelings, taking care of yourself.  

My mother is difficult - she is picky but only with me...Dont let that fool you it isn't me...it would be whoever cared for her. BUT as the specialists have all told me all the traits get exaggerated with dementia and very often that means that parents who were controlling before become extreme in their methods of control, often out of fear that you might just walk away.

Jewel 2017 HAS changed the way you think. In2016 you thought she was being a pain - now you KNOW she is! xxx

Unfortunately, many old people do become nasty. I personally don't care why they do it - if they are nasty - stay away. Sometimes that will bring them back to reality and you may have to tell them to stop acting that way and give them boundaries. If nothing helps, no medicine, nothing, then YOU must decide you are NOT going to take it and do not go near the person. You do NOT deserve this treatment from anyone - no matter why they do it.

Jeweltone, My heart goes out to you. We had milder but similar stuff with my mom. The doctor finally put her on a low dose of antidepressants and it made a world of difference! I'm not in favor of any more meds than absolutely necessary, but I was totally in favor of this. She was so much happier in general which was great for her. She'd been negative for years so it was good for her and the three of us who were looking out for her.

We have to face an ugly fact - often people change as they get older, often in the wrong direction. What we do when we are faced with that situation defines who we are. If we are kind humans, it will be very upsetting but we will do whatever we can to help and keep things going smoothly. But unfortunately, when negativity, repetition, dementia, etc., etc. kick in - other than brief moments - that is what the majority of the time will be. Choose to remember the good times and when the patient acts "out of line", tell them in no uncertain terms it is unacceptable behavior and you will not tolerate it and if it continues, they are on their own. it may not sink in or last only a while, but you will feel better because you are standing on your own two feet and demonstrating your self-respect. No one deserves such treatment, regardless of the reason. If it continues, stop putting yourself in harm's way - walk away and let someone else take care of them. You can visit and otherwise care but as soon as they act up, L E A V E. You really have no other choice.

Happy New Year!! Here is to a change in 2017. Change that will encourage each of us to be healthier in our minds and bodies.

Thanks so much for the encouragement once again. I did NOT send the note. I struggled for a week trying to figure out what to do. I wish I had sent it because at Christmas I got another card along with my children and even my husband got one from her. In the cards was cash this time. Her note to me was: "I hope 2017 changes your mind about how you feel about me".... See, it is all thrown back on me. This is what these type of people "in control" do. They always find that way to get the last word. I took the cash with not guilt. I never cashed the bday check and I wont. Phoenix, I congratulate you on your courage with your uncle. You are so right, it is their last need for control--he could have apologized, but I am sure in your own heart, for your own peace, you already forgave him. That's all we are required to do for ourselves. I decided a few weeks ago my mom does not owe me anything. She doesn't need to make it right with me, nor I with her. It saddens me knowing things cannot be different and I wish they could be. I am trying to make it different with my own children.--trying to show them unconditional love.

For what it is worth Jeweltone I learned this.....You cannot change others but you can stop their influence in your life. If you phone her and she is abusive when you have your say ....how will you feel? Dont phone her write to her and tell her not to contact you and that this will be your last contact and tell her why. Once you take control she cannot hurt you again ...unless you let her. For me I would also change my phone number but that is just me. Living free is a whole different ball game and that will take time. My problem wasnt a mother but an uncle and when he asked to see me on his death bed I refused. I wanted to believe he wanted to apologise but it was pointed out to me that it could be his final act of control. So I withdrew that from him.

Looking for the posts - looks like what was last is now first and there ia an edit button! Yay!

Jeweltone--your fears and struggle are not silly. That little girl inside is still terrorized even though your logic tells you she shouldn't be. You have made such progress, and it is clear you are a kind person. Consider trying a little "meditation," to find the little girls at different ages and stages who are so fearful and imagine you are the mother to these sweet girls. Give them the unconditional love, kindness, and confidence that they should have received but didn't. I often did this exercise in the shower! Slowly but surely, over quite some time, the frightened little girls became stronger and more independent. This may sound far fetched but it really helped me to gain strength, freedom, and a feeling of wholeness. You are doing great--it is tough-- I truly know.

Feeling guilty is something I am trying to get away from. Stew and nephew--guilt is always there from those of us who have a conscience. I have felt the same way, wondering when it's all going to be over. I realize it will not be over until she is gone. I will be sad for her but not for me. I feel bad for her for the miserable life she has made for herself. Unfortunately, my mom made those choices for herself. If only I could really explain to you how her life was as I saw it: She was married to a man (my dad) that did everything for her. He worked and made great money, she worked, she was so talented--she could cook like no one else, she could knitt, crochet, sew, make crafts that she would share with co workers, She was beautiful (Jackie Kennedy look alike) always held a higher up position and kept a very clean, neat house. I realize now a lot of that was the outward appearance we were all to uphold. Behind the scenes could get very ugly even though no one would know. Even after my parent's divorce, my mom kept it all together. Very well manicured home and decorated to the top.--magazine perfect to be exact. She still, even in AL, has a very well kept and decorated place. They even use her apartment sometimes to show newcomers what their apartment could look like. When she became ill, she still kept everything nice except herself.

I am with you, I cannot change her. I have tried to change myself to accommodate her needs and it still didn't work. She still finds a way to make me feel worthless and less than mediocre. Just know now, you have peace and can move forward. I am patiently waiting on that.

I have decided to write a note. I have typed and deleted a million times. Now that I have the words, I plan to write it tomorrow and send it out. I am still afraid of the repercussions that lie ahead, but regardless what I do, it will not matter to her. I am sure she will find a part of the letter and dwell on it and pick it apart. She will also, in her mind, put words in my mouth. I let her know I received her check and I couldn't accept it. I let her know how I feel by telling her my feelings are always hurt over and over and that I am afraid it will happen again. I told her I could not uphold the perfect daughter role she expected and I wasn't ready to talk to her. That's a brief on what I said. As that scared little girl, I will send the letter then still be afraid of what she will do or say. Silly, I know, but the struggle is real.

narcissistic personality traits can be heriditary. I was not completely free of my mother until she died last year. I did attend her funeral. Her husband contacted me a few months later and offered me anything of hers that I wanted, of which I took nothing. He did bring me the wedding and engagement rings that my father had given her. My husband will call him on Christmas day as a common courtesy this year to see how he is doing. To make things a bit more stranger--he is my age. What are my feelings after all these years of what she put me thru? I am a little bit ashamed to admit that she is dead and over with. In some ways I feel as if I let my daddy down. I could not change her.

Thank you, sooz55,.for the answer on APS. It was under mental health services in Mississippi. I was able to give it to my aunt who needed it for a friend that is a double amputee that is living in horrific conditions.

Jewel, if I were you i would cut off all communications altogether and try and forget about it completly. Put a block on your phone after making it clear to her that at this time you just don't want to talk to her. My mom left us when I was 18 months old, my sister was 3. We were raised by my father, grandmother and grandfather. She decided that she wanted to be back in my life when I was 25. I had a husband and 3 kids by then. I let her, thinking that she must of felt differently by that time and would be sorry for her actions. I talked with my father about it and he thought it would be the " right Christian " thing to do. My 58 year old father died a month later very suddenly while working so I felt as if I had made a promise to him that I would try. So after 3 more husbands (shouldn't that was supposed to be a clue to me?) I dove off, heart first, into a relationship with her. I put my children and husband thru all her problems and misery for 36 years and can not remember one good time at all. She was the same narcissistic person that I didn't even remember her as to begin with. ( I had no memories of her- I was too young). I nursed her thru 2 auto wrecks that she almost died in, many sicknesses and 3 more husbands. As my children got old enough to be on their own they refused to see her, going as far as putting blocks on their phones and having the police escort her away if she showed up. I don't know why my husband didn't just leave and divorce me. Things were just that bad. She tried to plot me against my children, my husband, my grandmother, and just about any other kin I had. My sister and I never had much of a relationship, even growing up as I now believe that

My mom died of Alzheimer's in April of 2015. I managed her care for approximately 5 years. I kept her at home but I didn't have a job or my own kids to care for. I would suggest trying your best to remember to be grateful for all of the help and grace you have arranged for your mom. Give yourself a pat on the back and some credit for this great feat. It must have been a real uphill battle getting you mom to the place, letting go of all that she knew before and not having to have her with you and your family. She sounds a bit controlling and maybe she's feeling out of control - like she has no more say in how things are for her. Just remember - I'm not preaching but giving you a little of what I went through - it's not an easy deal getting older and your mom may feel she's been ex'd out of the family and she may just be wanting things to go back to the way they were when she had more of a say so in what happens in her life. It's hard I know to listen to complaints when you're doing everything you can for her... but just think of what it would be like if you had to live with that 24/7. Somehow, just agree with her that things aren't so great but there isn't a whole lot you can do about it now. Patience and love when you think you just can't give any more, really it's always there. Peace and hugs to you .... it'll all work out, really it will.

Golden23,, your words spoke to me in the post above (to accept or not accept $$). I felt I had achieved a mostly comfortable distance, then my mother's cognitive decline became more pronounced, harder for her to conceal. The neediness that used to infuriate me now makes me feel compassion....which makes me re-negotiate the hard-won boundaries- within myself & in relation to her. She can't help it now, I'll think.It's cruel to get angry, etc. But then I do have moments of realization that she is making the same choices now that she always has, & I don't need to jump to protect her from her own choices. My mother just moved from independent living to assisted care at her senior living community. She hates it there, she says. I believe her, but I see her enjoying aspects of her new surroundings, and I just learned that one of the things she has complained about at every opportunity could be changed- she still has access to dinner at the different restaurants! All this time, 8 weeks or so, I've been thinking she lost access to them. Now I will just tell her she can choose to dine out, and refuse to get pulled in to her helpless routine. Seems I am only now realizing that she elicits my sympathy & concern, & then seems to enjoy my inability to help her. Maybe she just feels contempt for me for having let her manipulate me. Whatever it is, I have just taken the entire week off from calling or seeing her. My sister is there, and there are staff. In her last months living "independently," I was hiring & scheduling aides around the clock.Not now. I am so glad that part is over. It sucks that this relationship has been such a difficult part of my life.Well, d*mn it, I still have choices, and I can change my mind if I need to.

Also have to say that the kindness & wisdom her professional caregivers have shown me has been so helpful. I feel such gratitude for them. And thanks to you all, as well.

I agree with your friend - a note or you don't have to do anything. Remember what you do is a choice, an action for you, that makes your life better and reinforces your boundaries. Normally when you don't want to talk to someone you don't call them as that gives a mixed message. You are right about nipping this in the bud as anything that she perceives as a willingness to communicate will encourage her to try harder. If it is too hard to tell her, don't. Just stay as you are and go on living your life. You do what you want to do and she will do whatever. What she wants is your attention and to have control of you again. Whatever she would talk about is just a means to that end. (((((((hugs))))))

Thank you so much. The phone calls continue. She has called me three times now. Thursday, Friday and today (Saturday) She left another message yesterday saying, "it's mommy again and I really need you to call me I have some things to talk to you about" She didn't leave a message today though. I am back to the anxious, nervous, scared girl. Peace is very limited right now and I need it back. Why don't she just say on the message what she wants?!? No, that's too easy. I may not call her if she tells me what she wants. I have talked to a few friends and one friend that doesn't really know too much about the situation told me to call her because I didn't want it on me if something happens to my mom. I bravely told her that it will not be on me, that I am at peace with doing everything right for my mom. I left my family, took care of her, moved her three times, packed three houses by myself(with my families help), on and on. I have walked on eggshells around her to keep peace, I have smiled and taken her abuse, and now I am ready to get away for good. I have no regrets when it comes to my mom. My regrets come from doing everything she told me to do. I read the other day where we enable this type of behavior by walking on eggshells and letting them get away with their actions. We reap what they sow, not them reaping what they sow. It all made sense. I know I need to nip this in the bud or she won't stop. One friend told me, like you all, that I should write the note, or even I don't have to do anything. It truly is my choice. This is so hard and I appreciate the support from you guys. It is just really hard for me to tell someone I don't want to talk to them especially the narcissistic mother that raised me. Thank you again!!!

I like your idea about writing her a note, thanking her for the money, stating kindly that you cannot accept it, and also stating that you are just not ready to talk to her at this point in time. Remember that she does not own you, rule you, or have a say in who you are or what you do. You have done a lot of work by staying away; now comes the very, very difficult part where you realize and accept that you are separate--not connected except biologically. it doesn't matter whether she thinks she is above you--she isn't. You are entitled to YOUR life--it is YOUR life, and she is no longer in charge of your feelings, behaviors, etc. That is the super hard part--not just to cease communication but to realize you are a free woman, and she no longer has the power to hurt that little girl who has suffered so much. Close that emotional door. I believe in you--and I care about you!

To GiveaHug, APS is Adult Protective Services. In Los Angeles, I believe they are under either the Mental Health Dept or Senior Services... of course they could have their own department. When I contacted them a couple of years ago to try and get some help as to how seniors are targeted for political mail, they opened a case and rather than address my concern, paid a visit to my home and were going to cite me for neglect of my mother who was in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's. It was actually a kick in the butt to come to grips with it (I was in denial for a long time) and do something such as get rid of the clutter in my mom's home, check on how she was eating, eventually getting her to stay away from cooking, taking her car keys, being sure she was accompanied on her walks, taking over her checking account, getting legal Power of Attorney - all of that. It was a lot, I was overwhelmed for a good long time, but if it wasn't for APS, something really awful could have happened to Mom because I really didn't want to face all of the new responsibilities and heartache I didn't want to take on but had to do so.