Is it normal she's so negative?

Jewel, read your comments in October 2015 when your mother told you if someone hurt her she would not come around. That you were trying to take her money. That she manipulated others and your cousin was glad you that you didn't turn out like your mother. I followed this thread for 2 years to help reinforce my boundary efforts. If you can cash the check with no strings, IF IF IF, think about it. You felt so good when you stepped away and quit dancing. I've made the same choices. Please talk to your therapist before deciding. She has not changed. Please remember what Maya Angelou said "when people show you who they are, believe them." But whatever you decide I hope you stay free and believe in yourself. We do.

By the way my no contact ended when I contacted my mother and confronted her appropriately about decades worth of actions. She apologized. Said the words I'm sorry. No qualifiers. Any time she backslid later into well I was not responsible, I reminded her that I had done the walk away once. We had a better relationship for 4+ years but I had to be ready. Are you ready? Hugs and take care of you and your family. Be happy in the space of healing you created. When you are ready, you will know. Narcs cannot help trying to reel you in and money is a great way.

Guest, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Jewel, only you can decide if you are the same person you were a year ago. Do you have the ability to walk in, say hello and chat and IF she starts complaining say "Mother, I love you and would love to visit with you, but if you are going to complain about things that neither of us has the ability to change, I'm going to leave. It's your choice what to talk about, but it's my choice whether to stay and listen". If she keeps complaining, smile and put your fingers in your ears and say "lalalalalalala". If she continues, smile, say your goodbyes and leave.

IF you think you can do that, then give it a shot. But I agree with GSA, I'd discuss with your therapist first. Perhaps you need to role play this a bit first.

Hi Jeweltone! So happy to hear from you! Sounds like your mother has made, from her perspective, a sincere gesture. You have put up with so much from her, but here is my advice: 1. Accept the gift--you need it and deserve it without owing her anything. 2. Consider a phone call or a brief visit and see how it goes. Do not ask for an apology--just see if a fresh start (within reason considering your mother) is a possibility. If it is not, you can just leave once again,but at least you tried. It has been long enough that perhaps it is time to check things out. 3. No matter what you choose to do, remember you are your own person, she is being taken care of, and you will not accept emotional abuse from her or anyone else.

I am very grateful to my counselor who helped me, but I worked very hard. I still have to work, but my relationship with my mother has shifted since I don't put up with her nonsense anymore. We will never have the loving relationship,the child within me had been craving, but I now have the love inside me--for me--if that makes sense. I do not need, expect, nor want her as my loving mother. That ship has sailed. Please let us know what you decide to do. No matter what, walk in freedom. XXOO

Wow~ How I have missed this group of people! This is a huge reminder to me why I started this a few years back and I need to keep following for YOU that have helped me get through it and for me to be reminded how far WE have come!! Thank you for your kind words of wisdom. My husband reminded me just as you have that my mom hasn;t changed that it may be a little guilt shining through. He told me the same thing that I deserve the money and if I felt I couldn't accept it, to split it with my children. Then here comes that little girl inside me ~ "she will know I cashed the check since she took back over her finances" "What will she say?" "once again, I am a bad girl". I was very satisfied with my decision to walk away even though from time to time, as a mother myself, I feel bad for her. The peace I have found is greater than the pain she has caused me. We have had a lot happen this past year....we have had a fire at our home, my husband lost his job, (still don't have a full time one yet), my daughter had unexpected knee surgery, on and on--these are not simple things. I have felt sometimes these things have happened because I am not being the "good " daughter, that I am being punished in some way. That is my guilt! I am having dinner tomorrow with my aunt--her sister and I am going to get her opinion too. Thank you Guest for reminding me that she has already shown me who she is and to each of you for your suggestions. I just don't want to be reminded of how "bad" I am, I know she will rehash later...asking me a million questions. I realize I am the only one who can make this decision. Thank you for listening and it's time to get my coat of armour back out!!

Hope everyone had a great Holiday! I enjoyed family and of course great food. The week of food and festivities is over and now I am faced with the reality that a check still sits in an envelope, encased in a card, on my kitchen table. It is hanging over my head like a dark cloud. I can vividly see her frowning face as she wonders if I got the card that holds a check. The images of her scowl will forever be burned in my thoughts. With it being a week, I am sure she has called the bank to see if the check has been cashed. You wonder where I get my worry--ha ha! I REALLY need the money with my husband being a dislocated worker right now, but along with cashing that check comes other guilt and thoughts running through my mind.

I love all your suggestions and hope I can make a decision soon. I was at peace knowing I had walked away from the torture. All the pain has now reoccurred with a price attached to it.

I live in an older neighborhood (one street) where we all have different sources of income. Some of the income is much higher than others. One of our neighbors is a very wealthy, very successful businessman. I sit this morning watching him tear down his mother-in-laws home (which he owned) He lives on the hill behind her home on 20 acres, and she lives diagonally to me ( in my quaint 1500 sq ft home).--well, now she lives in a nursing home because of her dementia. I wondered while I watched.... They are very wealthy have a 6 bedroom home, a home in different climates (3) actually.--They put her in the nursing home and don't think twice about it.--I know this because I will ask his wife from time to time "how is your mother doing"? Her response is usually something like "Crazier than ever"--with a huge laugh or "She is fed and well taken care of". They go on with their daily life and do what they love to do---travel, have parties, and make more money. I have to say though, he a humanitarian--he gives generously to our little sleepy town. I struggle to exist some days because of my guilt. I am not guilty that I never did anything for her because I did everything. The guilt comes from knowing she thinks I am a bad person. I can still hear "well, because I am your mother". It rings loud most days. I have to remind myself just because she is my mother doesn't mean I have to take what she dishes out--- She has shown me many times who she really is.

Have a great week!!

jewel - good for you for staying away. You have been doing very well. The cheque does present a problem as gifts from narcissists can come with strings attached. You know, I doubt that your mother really thinks that you are a bad person, but she knows that saying so gets a rise out of you which feeds her narcissism. My experience with my family is that the leopard does not change its spots and I make my decisions in that light. Whatever you do make sure it is good for you. ((((((hugs)))))8

Thank you Golden... I have to remember that too...that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. I had a long talk with my aunt. She didn't have the answers either, but she did remind me that no matter what path I take with my mother it will be the wrong one --in my mother's eyes. At the conclusion of our conversation, I decided that I will not cash the check being it comes with repercussions.

jewel, I don't take money or let my mother pay any of my expenses for just the reason. When she says that I owe her because she pays the bills, I can honestly say that she doesn't. Some people would say that it is self defeating for me not to let her pay everything. I know different. I have a feeling you are coming from that same place. Anything we receive comes with strings and feelings of obligation. If it is a little Christmas or birthday gift, it is one thing. If it is something that makes you feel obligated, it is entirely different. Your freedom from feeling guilty is a lot more valuable. Big hugs.

Thank you Belle!! Yes, you are so right. Even when I started paying myself back for all the groceries, pajamas--that she just had to have because she needed them, and clothes because she had lost so much weight; she would say who is paying for this. Eventually, the cost of it all caught up with my budget and I had to start paying myself back. She was so mad. I had to stop feeling guiilty because my mom had/has the money. No money of hers is worth the repercussions that come with it, I promise. If I thought this bday "gift" of money came from her heart with no strings attached it would be different; but I can assure you that somewhere in there are huge chains ready to tie me down again. NO THANK YOU! I have found a peace in not have those obligations anymore. My mother only loves under certain conditions--no unconditional love there.
My mom used to talk so negative of her sister. She was always putting her down and was so jealous of her thinking that she was my grandmother's favorite.--my mother's issues, of course. Now, guess who helps her out?--you got it, that sister. Talking about a saint. I told her she can have my crown of jewels one day. She has truly been a life saver for me. As I have been reading over the past years, it is so hard to believe there are so many negative and thoughtless mothers/parents out there. Wonder if it is generational? I am sure glad we have evolved.

Something I have tried to remember along the way is we are important even if someone else has tried to make us think we are worthless. It may not have always been what they said, but how they have said it. Physical abuse or mental/emotional abuse--what ever the case, just know that YOU are worth something more than the abuser wants you to be. I do realize that some of you may have a parent you are caring for was so different before their illness struck them. Know that you can honestly say "this is not my parent". Just know that there are those of us whose parent has always been this way and we are struggling to differentiate the difference.--is this my mother or is this the illness. We cannot say, "oh my mom would have never said that"... the illness is giving my mom an excuse. Love and hugs to all who are struggling while caring for an ill parent.

So proud of you Jewel. what price a clear conscience? You know;)

Jewel, I'm so glad you are finding peace.
It occurs to me that narcissistic parents are like little kids who've never grown up emotionally. Where emotionally mature parents raise their children to become more independent each day, and take pride in seeing their children cut the apron strings of emotional and financial dependence, narcissistic parents strangle their children with expectations of endless admiration, dependence and use money as a stand-in for love. It's very sad to see someone subjected to this. I'm so glad that you are starting to break free!

Thank you!!! The peace does come with a price, but it is so worth it!

During church today I also had another realization.--It is not me she needs to find peace with, it is not me that she needs to make it right.... I realize I do not need to make it right with her either, I have already made it right in the place I need it to be right--my higher being (my salvation in my Savior)

It doesn't stop here.... Today my mom called me and left a message. I could have thrown up. That scared little girl stopped in her tracks as she listened to the message. She said, "it's mommy, I need you to call me". Then she proceeded to give me her phone number. I cannot tell you how I feel about it. After talking to my aunt, I realize she may "need" me to do something for her. She got mad at my aunt on Monday and told her not to come that she would get a taxi to get to the bank. My aunt called her again on Tuesday and told her she could take her and my mom told her NO she wasn't going. She gets mad and her pride sits in the way. So now guess who she is calling??? Me! I really need some advice on what to do. I do NOT want to call her after all I have been through and trying to get away from. I would love to just write a note to her and let her know I received her card and the money, but I cannot except it and that I am not ready to talk to her. How in the world do I put that in words to "MY MOTHER".... remember...I have heard that all my life, Well, I am your mother. As the counselor said, "what does that mean?"... I realized today while talking to my aunt that means---in my mom's eyes that she is above me. She is higher than me. She will always rise above me and I am to remember that.

You write her just as you did here. Doesn't matter that she is your mother. She is a person regarding whom you have had to draw very firm boundaries because of HER behaviours/problems, not yours. Yes, she is your biological mother but she has failed to be a nurturing mother showing you love, and affection. You do not owe her anything, no matter what she thinks. It is your right to accept that gift or not, to speak to her or not, and so forth. Remember she has not changed, you have - in a healthier direction. Keep going in that direction.

What Golden said, Jewel. You can call her, and you can say "no" to what she asks you to do, too. Talk to your counselor.

I am having a very senior moment. Who is APS? i have an accuantance that is living in very bad conditions. She refuses any help. I was talking to someone close to her and she needs reporting to someone so maybe she will allow someone to come in to help her. Who would be the agency to report thih to?

To GiveaHug, APS is Adult Protective Services. In Los Angeles, I believe they are under either the Mental Health Dept or Senior Services... of course they could have their own department. When I contacted them a couple of years ago to try and get some help as to how seniors are targeted for political mail, they opened a case and rather than address my concern, paid a visit to my home and were going to cite me for neglect of my mother who was in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's. It was actually a kick in the butt to come to grips with it (I was in denial for a long time) and do something such as get rid of the clutter in my mom's home, check on how she was eating, eventually getting her to stay away from cooking, taking her car keys, being sure she was accompanied on her walks, taking over her checking account, getting legal Power of Attorney - all of that. It was a lot, I was overwhelmed for a good long time, but if it wasn't for APS, something really awful could have happened to Mom because I really didn't want to face all of the new responsibilities and heartache I didn't want to take on but had to do so.

I like your idea about writing her a note, thanking her for the money, stating kindly that you cannot accept it, and also stating that you are just not ready to talk to her at this point in time. Remember that she does not own you, rule you, or have a say in who you are or what you do. You have done a lot of work by staying away; now comes the very, very difficult part where you realize and accept that you are separate--not connected except biologically. it doesn't matter whether she thinks she is above you--she isn't. You are entitled to YOUR life--it is YOUR life, and she is no longer in charge of your feelings, behaviors, etc. That is the super hard part--not just to cease communication but to realize you are a free woman, and she no longer has the power to hurt that little girl who has suffered so much. Close that emotional door. I believe in you--and I care about you!

Thank you so much. The phone calls continue. She has called me three times now. Thursday, Friday and today (Saturday) She left another message yesterday saying, "it's mommy again and I really need you to call me I have some things to talk to you about" She didn't leave a message today though. I am back to the anxious, nervous, scared girl. Peace is very limited right now and I need it back. Why don't she just say on the message what she wants?!? No, that's too easy. I may not call her if she tells me what she wants. I have talked to a few friends and one friend that doesn't really know too much about the situation told me to call her because I didn't want it on me if something happens to my mom. I bravely told her that it will not be on me, that I am at peace with doing everything right for my mom. I left my family, took care of her, moved her three times, packed three houses by myself(with my families help), on and on. I have walked on eggshells around her to keep peace, I have smiled and taken her abuse, and now I am ready to get away for good. I have no regrets when it comes to my mom. My regrets come from doing everything she told me to do. I read the other day where we enable this type of behavior by walking on eggshells and letting them get away with their actions. We reap what they sow, not them reaping what they sow. It all made sense. I know I need to nip this in the bud or she won't stop. One friend told me, like you all, that I should write the note, or even I don't have to do anything. It truly is my choice. This is so hard and I appreciate the support from you guys. It is just really hard for me to tell someone I don't want to talk to them especially the narcissistic mother that raised me. Thank you again!!!

I agree with your friend - a note or you don't have to do anything. Remember what you do is a choice, an action for you, that makes your life better and reinforces your boundaries. Normally when you don't want to talk to someone you don't call them as that gives a mixed message. You are right about nipping this in the bud as anything that she perceives as a willingness to communicate will encourage her to try harder. If it is too hard to tell her, don't. Just stay as you are and go on living your life. You do what you want to do and she will do whatever. What she wants is your attention and to have control of you again. Whatever she would talk about is just a means to that end. (((((((hugs))))))

Golden23,, your words spoke to me in the post above (to accept or not accept $$). I felt I had achieved a mostly comfortable distance, then my mother's cognitive decline became more pronounced, harder for her to conceal. The neediness that used to infuriate me now makes me feel compassion....which makes me re-negotiate the hard-won boundaries- within myself & in relation to her. She can't help it now, I'll think.It's cruel to get angry, etc. But then I do have moments of realization that she is making the same choices now that she always has, & I don't need to jump to protect her from her own choices. My mother just moved from independent living to assisted care at her senior living community. She hates it there, she says. I believe her, but I see her enjoying aspects of her new surroundings, and I just learned that one of the things she has complained about at every opportunity could be changed- she still has access to dinner at the different restaurants! All this time, 8 weeks or so, I've been thinking she lost access to them. Now I will just tell her she can choose to dine out, and refuse to get pulled in to her helpless routine. Seems I am only now realizing that she elicits my sympathy & concern, & then seems to enjoy my inability to help her. Maybe she just feels contempt for me for having let her manipulate me. Whatever it is, I have just taken the entire week off from calling or seeing her. My sister is there, and there are staff. In her last months living "independently," I was hiring & scheduling aides around the clock.Not now. I am so glad that part is over. It sucks that this relationship has been such a difficult part of my life.Well, d*mn it, I still have choices, and I can change my mind if I need to.

Also have to say that the kindness & wisdom her professional caregivers have shown me has been so helpful. I feel such gratitude for them. And thanks to you all, as well.

My mom died of Alzheimer's in April of 2015. I managed her care for approximately 5 years. I kept her at home but I didn't have a job or my own kids to care for. I would suggest trying your best to remember to be grateful for all of the help and grace you have arranged for your mom. Give yourself a pat on the back and some credit for this great feat. It must have been a real uphill battle getting you mom to the place, letting go of all that she knew before and not having to have her with you and your family. She sounds a bit controlling and maybe she's feeling out of control - like she has no more say in how things are for her. Just remember - I'm not preaching but giving you a little of what I went through - it's not an easy deal getting older and your mom may feel she's been ex'd out of the family and she may just be wanting things to go back to the way they were when she had more of a say so in what happens in her life. It's hard I know to listen to complaints when you're doing everything you can for her... but just think of what it would be like if you had to live with that 24/7. Somehow, just agree with her that things aren't so great but there isn't a whole lot you can do about it now. Patience and love when you think you just can't give any more, really it's always there. Peace and hugs to you .... it'll all work out, really it will.

Thank you, sooz55,.for the answer on APS. It was under mental health services in Mississippi. I was able to give it to my aunt who needed it for a friend that is a double amputee that is living in horrific conditions.

Jewel, if I were you i would cut off all communications altogether and try and forget about it completly. Put a block on your phone after making it clear to her that at this time you just don't want to talk to her. My mom left us when I was 18 months old, my sister was 3. We were raised by my father, grandmother and grandfather. She decided that she wanted to be back in my life when I was 25. I had a husband and 3 kids by then. I let her, thinking that she must of felt differently by that time and would be sorry for her actions. I talked with my father about it and he thought it would be the " right Christian " thing to do. My 58 year old father died a month later very suddenly while working so I felt as if I had made a promise to him that I would try. So after 3 more husbands (shouldn't that was supposed to be a clue to me?) I dove off, heart first, into a relationship with her. I put my children and husband thru all her problems and misery for 36 years and can not remember one good time at all. She was the same narcissistic person that I didn't even remember her as to begin with. ( I had no memories of her- I was too young). I nursed her thru 2 auto wrecks that she almost died in, many sicknesses and 3 more husbands. As my children got old enough to be on their own they refused to see her, going as far as putting blocks on their phones and having the police escort her away if she showed up. I don't know why my husband didn't just leave and divorce me. Things were just that bad. She tried to plot me against my children, my husband, my grandmother, and just about any other kin I had. My sister and I never had much of a relationship, even growing up as I now believe that

narcissistic personality traits can be heriditary. I was not completely free of my mother until she died last year. I did attend her funeral. Her husband contacted me a few months later and offered me anything of hers that I wanted, of which I took nothing. He did bring me the wedding and engagement rings that my father had given her. My husband will call him on Christmas day as a common courtesy this year to see how he is doing. To make things a bit more stranger--he is my age. What are my feelings after all these years of what she put me thru? I am a little bit ashamed to admit that she is dead and over with. In some ways I feel as if I let my daddy down. I could not change her.

Feeling guilty is something I am trying to get away from. Stew and nephew--guilt is always there from those of us who have a conscience. I have felt the same way, wondering when it's all going to be over. I realize it will not be over until she is gone. I will be sad for her but not for me. I feel bad for her for the miserable life she has made for herself. Unfortunately, my mom made those choices for herself. If only I could really explain to you how her life was as I saw it: She was married to a man (my dad) that did everything for her. He worked and made great money, she worked, she was so talented--she could cook like no one else, she could knitt, crochet, sew, make crafts that she would share with co workers, She was beautiful (Jackie Kennedy look alike) always held a higher up position and kept a very clean, neat house. I realize now a lot of that was the outward appearance we were all to uphold. Behind the scenes could get very ugly even though no one would know. Even after my parent's divorce, my mom kept it all together. Very well manicured home and decorated to the top.--magazine perfect to be exact. She still, even in AL, has a very well kept and decorated place. They even use her apartment sometimes to show newcomers what their apartment could look like. When she became ill, she still kept everything nice except herself.

I am with you, I cannot change her. I have tried to change myself to accommodate her needs and it still didn't work. She still finds a way to make me feel worthless and less than mediocre. Just know now, you have peace and can move forward. I am patiently waiting on that.

I have decided to write a note. I have typed and deleted a million times. Now that I have the words, I plan to write it tomorrow and send it out. I am still afraid of the repercussions that lie ahead, but regardless what I do, it will not matter to her. I am sure she will find a part of the letter and dwell on it and pick it apart. She will also, in her mind, put words in my mouth. I let her know I received her check and I couldn't accept it. I let her know how I feel by telling her my feelings are always hurt over and over and that I am afraid it will happen again. I told her I could not uphold the perfect daughter role she expected and I wasn't ready to talk to her. That's a brief on what I said. As that scared little girl, I will send the letter then still be afraid of what she will do or say. Silly, I know, but the struggle is real.

Jeweltone--your fears and struggle are not silly. That little girl inside is still terrorized even though your logic tells you she shouldn't be. You have made such progress, and it is clear you are a kind person. Consider trying a little "meditation," to find the little girls at different ages and stages who are so fearful and imagine you are the mother to these sweet girls. Give them the unconditional love, kindness, and confidence that they should have received but didn't. I often did this exercise in the shower! Slowly but surely, over quite some time, the frightened little girls became stronger and more independent. This may sound far fetched but it really helped me to gain strength, freedom, and a feeling of wholeness. You are doing great--it is tough-- I truly know.

Looking for the posts - looks like what was last is now first and there ia an edit button! Yay!

For what it is worth Jeweltone I learned this.....You cannot change others but you can stop their influence in your life. If you phone her and she is abusive when you have your say ....how will you feel? Dont phone her write to her and tell her not to contact you and that this will be your last contact and tell her why. Once you take control she cannot hurt you again ...unless you let her. For me I would also change my phone number but that is just me. Living free is a whole different ball game and that will take time. My problem wasnt a mother but an uncle and when he asked to see me on his death bed I refused. I wanted to believe he wanted to apologise but it was pointed out to me that it could be his final act of control. So I withdrew that from him.