Is a diagnosis of dementia ever a legal defense?

Dementia is not a legal defense. In fact, it is a serious liability. As you know someone with dementia should not be driving. Dementia impairs their judgement, their vision, and their response time. If someone with dementia us involved in an auto accident, whether it's their fault or not, the insurance company may or may not pay the claim. Your mom's situation is unfortuneate, but it'll put an end to her driving. That's a good thing. It's relieves you from being the bad guy. I hope the loss of driving privedges is her only penalty.

It is not defense in the case of a DUI but the good news is that she will not have a license. I don't recall if you told us who her POA is but it is time to step in and be certain she cannot drive. With dementia her word that she will not is worthless. We took my brother after his accident to the DMV and got license changed to Senior ID, gave up the license. No car on premises. No keys. No nothing and driving over. There will be no defense now for a future accident and she could lose everything; she will be uninsured.
Where it could be a defense is in case of shoplifting, if seniors are bussed by their Board and Care of ALF to shopping center. And even that would likely be through "forgiveness" and the lack of the store pursuing charges.
It is time for the POA to take more active role for Mom now, it would seem, if she will allow it; if not, guardianship might be in the future. Good luck.
My brother's accident was the beginning of his diagnosis. Prior to that we thought there were only balance issues. He was only so thankful he had not injured anyone by his not knowing what was going on with his brain. I hope that's the case with your Mom. He was more than willing to give up driving.

Oh, Piper, I'm so glad no one was hurt!

I cant imagine that dementia is a defense against a DUI. It might mitigate an order to attend AA meetings, say.

But this should be a wake up call to the court system that mom may need a guardian or at the least that she can no longer live alone.

I would ask your brother to press mom's lawyer to refer her case to whatever court handles guardianship in her jurisdiction.

I would also supply the court with the documentation that you've got on how your mom managed to get around her doctor's suspension of her Florida license and her getting a license in PA.

Piper, I'm really sorry to learn about this situation.     It must be so frustrating, and traumatic for you and your family.

I haven't done any criminal work, or interpretation, in years, and couldn't say whether dementia is a defense w/o doing legal research.    What I would do though is plan to appear in court with your mother (even if she doesn't want you there). 

If her lawyer isn't a criminal lawyer, it's much better to get one.   Law is so segmented by practice area that someone who's not in that field isn't going to be current on practice as well as legal precedents, penalties, etc.

You or your brother can ask for a court-appointed attorney (assuming that she's unable to afford an attorney of her own, or wouldn't agree to consider hiring one with a practice specific to criminal law).   At least that way she has some level of protection.

I think dementia would be an explanation only, as to how the situation arose.    And I'm pretty sure her ability to drive would be legally rescinded, likely permanently, unless she gets substance abuse counseling, and/or a doctor can certify to her ability to drive despite the dementia.

If this is the first offense, and depending on the hearing judge, she may just get off with a reprimand and revoked license, as well as mandatory alcoholic addiction counseling.

This is where an experienced criminal attorney could help mitigate a worse outcome.

Good luck; I hope this event has a side effect of bringing your mother closer to you and your concerns, and give up driving for her sake as well as that of her family.

My father went through the no more driving situation, and given his independence, it wasn't easy.  So I tried to plan supportive happy events whenever I took him somewhere...little surprises, like stopping at his favorite restaurant, or getting a Dairy Queen (a treat for both of us), or visiting a friend, or putting a favorite CD on after we returned, to divert his attention.

Walks in the neighborhood also were a diversion, especially if we met other walkers, and even more especially if they were walking their dogs.   I also tried to get neighbors to bring their dogs over to visit him.

PS from me:
You also observe above that Mom was given a "DUI" but may not have done the tests. Refused blood test and I don't know about breathalizer. She may have been diagnosed as DUI because of her answers, which may have been a result of dementia. But that alone is enough to have license taken. I myself would be honest as to no more driving again, and would go for the Senior ID with her and release the license to drive. Your Mom has been diagnosed?
Are you thinking she may be needing more care now? Is she still living alone?
I am so relieved to hear that her POA is in place and you are on the spot. Wishing you so much luck.

Was alchohol really involved, was she tested or was it because the way she spoke to the police they thought she was drunk?

Since there was minor damage the fine may not be too bad. First time DUIs are usually not as bad. Bring Dementia into it and maybe the Judge will be lenient and she will just get a fine, has to pay for the damage if insurance doesn't and her license revolked for good. Laws need to change and doctors made accountable when they don't report a Dementia patient to the DMV. License should be taken away upon diagnoses. Because, by the time they are diagnosed they are pretty much into the Dementia.

We had a Cop in town whose Mom suffered from ALZ and he was told he couldn't take her license away until there was an accident and ALZ was found to be the cause. By that time she could have killed someone.

As said, get rid of the car. If there is a POA a diagnoses that Mom can no longer make informed decisions will put the POA in effect. Its no longer what she wants but what she needs. The POA can then sell the car for Market Value if u think Mom will need Medicaid within five years. In the meantime, store it somewhere else. Out of sight, out of mind.

So, Piper, is this court date in PA or in FL?

I have no idea about the guardianship thing. I think you need to talk to her lawyer about how to get her what she NEEDS.

Is she selling the cottage at FMV? Not doing so has implications for Medicaid.

Piper, why are you going to be mom's driver?

Please allow her the dignity of taking cabs.

Piper, there are other options for transportation.   Senior Centers, especially well run ones, have vans at their disposal.     These are adapted for senior use, and depending on the size of the transit authority from which they're leased, may have wheelchair assist.

I learned when I had cataract surgery that some ambulance companies have nonemergency transit.   This is what I used for follow-up after surgery.   

They're not cheap; most point to point transit services aren't.  But the local transit company does have small vans, wheelchair equipped, that are reasonable.   A year or so ago it was a nominal cost, something like $1.00, for transit one way.   

Personally, I would consider these before Uber.   I've read of too many issues arising from private service, either to passengers or drivers.    I consulted cab companies; they're expensive, and you have no guarantee that the drivers have experience with older people.

You might want to check out these transit options:

Okaloosa County Transit, (850) 833-9168

http://www.ecrider.org/routes/

Please please make sure atty does criminal. Not civil & sometimes dabbles in criminal but is all abt criminal defense.

& perhaps before she gets you to be Piper the Chauffeur 24/7, call around to see if there is a Lyft or Uber driver who is known for being elder friendly and do a drive with them to discuss that possibility. Or if there’s a senior friendly transportation service that specializes in this.

I’m assuming that you really don’t want to blithely be her on call chauffeur. The Area on Aging for your area probably has a list of day programs that include outings in their activities. I’d suggest that you try to get her on a twice a week day program and let thier shopping outing be how she gets most of her retail therapy & shopping done. & get set up to order online & get it delivered to you at your condo. I think that if the anticipated 2nd wave of Covid hits in Nov& Dec, Jan, you’ll be really glad to have online deliver services already set up and relationships with Uber in place.

My mother doesn’t drive anymore. She takes call a bus which is part of centro bus. She only pays 3.00 each way and it takes her anywhere in her county. It runs Monday-Friday 7am-7pm. On the weekend it runs on a limited schedule.

To answer the original question, dementia certainly won’t be a defense to a DUI charge. Insanity as a defense to criminal action doesn’t let you go free anyway, it puts you into a different sort of detention. A ‘diminished responsibility’ plea (if there is such a thing) is even more complicated. Dementia with lots of regrets, remorse, apologies, promises, concrete plans etc, would probably mean that M would be treated lightly. Best to let the lawyer argue it, especially if M is not necessarily prepared to grovel apologetically.

I should look on the bright side.

Your mother's licence will be taken away. She has been thoroughly shaken and (believe this when you see it, but let's hope anyway) she has agreed to comply. And nobody got hurt.

I'd call that a very fortunate outcome, all round. I suppose it's possible that the court *could* try to make an example of her, but if she is meek and remorseful I can't imagine why they would.

Do NOT give her a hard time about this. Save your breath for when she gets over the shock and decides she'll be fine if she only goes out in daylight and it's not too far...

Mom had a DUI before this one. Is She an alcoholic? I would be looking into detox and rehab for her and if already lined up may serve as mom's sentence.

You are making excuses for not selling mom's car now. She isn't ready yet? Makes no matter, if it is available she will drive it. Next time she may not be so lucky as to not hurt someone or herself. You are POA and it is your responsibility to keep mom and others safe by taking care of the car situation. If mom says she is willing to stop driving, tomorrow she may not remember she said that. Then what?

Sorry if this seems harsh, but the time has come for you to take more responsibility for mom.

"I'm not looking forward to being her driver but I will do it. My mom can be really difficult and demanding, so how she takes to getting used to things will depend a lot on her. In the last couple years I've had to work hard to maintain boundaries and we've made progress. "

And she lives in a condo right next door to her? You are going to have to work really really hard to maintain boundaries!

Be very careful with the driving....I was my mother's driver (I called myself the "Dummy Daughter Driver" because she thought I was stupid). I set strict boundaries for hauling her places -- to Mass for Sundays and Holy Days, one a week grocery shopping (combined with chair yoga at the rec center while I swam laps), and medical appointments. Before she gave up driving, she went out most every day. She could no longer walk at the mall. Any time I took her anywhere, it took HOURS. She wouldn't let me do her grocery shopping for her (if she did, I would have taken her to the mall once a week to walk with the people she knew). She didn't have a smartphone, and wouldn't have been able to manage Uber or Lyft. She refused to take the city handiride.

She wasn't happy with the boundaries, but in time she came to accept them.

I do hope someone (atty, you, brother) can mention to the judge that mom has dementia. If you still have the FL documents (doc, DMV), bring them along! It would be better if the decision to suspend her license was changed to revoked. At least for a while, this will keep her from thinking she can drive again. Make copies and show/hand them to her if she brings up driving again.

As for how your mom will get around - certainly you can offer to take her to the store for groceries and other supplies, and various other locations (appts, etc.) She may want to be able to venture out on her own, so you might need some alternatives.

I know some suggested Uber, Lyft, senior buses, etc, but when dealing with dementia, these options might not work well, or for long. Just as many dementia drivers have gotten "lost", ending up many miles from home and with no clue how to get back, the same can happen when using these kind of transport systems. There might be some who figure out they can take advantage of her, if they detect she's not playing with a full deck. I'm sure most drivers are legit, but it only takes one.

I liked your idea of hiring someone who can be her "driver", but also be a companion who can watch over her in your staid. It would be great to have her get used to this now, and then as needed you can increase the time/activities of this aide. You might have to shop around a bit to find an agency that offers this (maybe easier in FL?) The agency we used would not allow the aides to drive mom anywhere (liability likely), but they could run errands for her, for instance picking up milk and juice when mom ran low or out of these between my visits.

As her dementia progresses, she is going to forget about the revoked license, and that she sold her "camp." Be prepared for making excuses (if you tell her the truth, she may not believe you or argue with you or accuse you of stealing it!)

Hopefully things will go smoothly for you. One would hope that the courts would allow you to "present" yourselves remotely rather than forcing you to drive all the way there AND expose both yourself and her to the virus. Even better, perhaps the atty can just be there in your staid and maybe get the charges down a bit, a fine, restitution, and revoking the license... Wouldn't hurt to ask - it isn't like any of you are going to dispute the charges.

Boy, oh boy, I wrote that badly. 😕 You have the opportunity to get mom a diagnosis that will insure she will not drive again. Sounds like early stages but she is a danger to herself and others.

Piper
I knew a woman (aunt of a friend) who had a paid friend. She hired the friend herself. She didn’t have dementia. Her daughter lived next door and took her to her doctor appointments and to church. This aunt had mobility problems. Her friend came a few times a week. They went to the hairdressers or shopping. Went to DQ. Watched tv together. Took rides. Whatever they decided. When she went into a NH, the friend would visit, bring her outfits from home. Play bingo with her. The paid friend was a few years younger and very cute, dressed nice and made the aunts life more fun. She also had a boyfriend who would come drink coffee with her. He developed Alzheimer’s and went to the NH years before Aunt died. I admired how she managed her life.
Might be hard to find just the right person but they are out there.

It is good to hear from you ExhaustedPiper. Not the reason though. Thank God that nobody was injured.

I think that hiring a companion is a great solution for your situation. I also recommend putting boundaries on your time, just so she doesn't run you ragged with needing to go, go, go.

If she doesn't have one, now is a good time to introduce a grocery list keeper. I use a magnet, pencil on a string and a pad on my fridge, tear and go. This can help keep the items in stock that create a trip to the grocery.

You have done so much for your mom and she has bruised and battered you for all of your caring. Please do not let her or your precious heart make you pay for the consequences of her choices. Keep your boundaries and walk away, hang up or leave if she starts in on you. You matter just as much as her and you DO NOT deserve to be her scratching post.

Stay strong and resolved! Best of luck finding a good companion that makes this new season in your journey the best yet. Great big warm hug!

Why defend her? You can let the Department of Motor Vehicles help you take away your mother's license. Isn't this what you wanted? I hope all of her paperwork was in order (POA, will, etc.) before your brother told her attorney that she has dementia.

I read through some of the responses .. If she has been diagnosed with dementia and her keys have been taken away, it might not be enough . The car might after it disappear, too ... I have read in others places about there being others keys in others places. I have been doing all the driving since before the pandemic because of the 4 hour drive my husbands had trying to find his way home . We recently sold the second car to a dealership . He still thinks he can drive but my feeling is if he can no longer handle the TV remote, he can no longer drive. There are comments during every car or truck commercial that comes on TV about the one that he wants and my response is always “ When your a little more stable on your feet, we will look for another vehicle.” HE does have PT coming in 2x a week and health care in one day a week. They gives me a little break and they no longer have to park on the street ..,

Whom ever has POA over your mom could be held liable as well. Knowing that she is in cognitive decline already pose a hazard to others and herself without drinking. Whether you and your brother are on good terms or not push for a permanent removal of license. No ifs ands or buts. Even if you cannot talk to the attorney if it is a truly desperate situation and not about control just call the attorneys office and leave a message about permanent license removal

I am NOT a lawyer, but common sense tells me that "dementia" does not always mean "Alzheimer's disease" and even with that during that course she can fully understand what she is doing, especially still being able to drive represents earlier stages of it. DUI can also mean she could have killed some one like a child, or bicyclist.
Let the law take its course and expect the Court to permanently revoke her driver's license. She will probably have to pay heavy fines and even alcohol program at her expense, but it is better than killing some child or other innocent bystander. You may want to organize her seeing a psychiatrist to get a competency hearing and establish power of attorney or court appointed legal guardian. The court may order that...if not get her to see a psychiatrist to get that competency hearing if DPOA is not established.

DO NOT LET HER DRIVE--take away her keys if necessary, and confiscate the car.

The best person to ask these questions is her lawyer. I know you said she didn’t give you permission to talk to him, perhaps your brother can take a list of your questions and find out the answers. That said my experience with family members who have gotten a DUI is that there is usually a large fine, a required class for alcohol safety and a years suspension of your license. She probably also has a hit and run charge and I’m not sure what is done for those. Since she has dementia the judge may elect to just revoke her driving privileges for all time along with fines. My nieces MIL had an accident that fortunately didn’t involve any major injuries and given that she had an impeccable driving record the judge did just revoke her license and lots of fines. I can’t say what her insurance company paid out.

My guess if you pleaded dementia you'd be in a bigger legal mess. Like, if you knew she had dementia why did you let her drive? Now you are in the legal quagmire too.
Just engineer a settlement where the court tells her to give up her license due to a recent medical test. You are not the bad guy and case is solved.
By the way, I am not a lawyer but I think this is the way Perry Mason would handle it.

Regardless of how this turns out you are mistaken if you think a diagnosis of Alzheimer's, or taking away her license, will prevent her from driving. You have confirmation she no longer is capable of driving safely. It is no longer her decision. Disable the car or remove it to a place she cannot find it. Save her life and the lives of innocent others.

Now is the time to get input from her doctor. Have her lawyer contact the doctor for written statement. You cannot get in trouble for her driving dementia or not because she is an adult. Only dmv can stop someone from driving legally.
My dad refused to stop driving until his license was legally taken. Because he is convinced he is going back to court soon to get his license back and his incompetency overturned, though he still complains, he does not drive.
Of course they will never give him a license again and it has now been 2.5 years and he has not tried to drive since the day of his suspension.
Let her believe she will get it back as long as she does not drive while it is suspended. I pray it works for u. I'm still shocked honestly that it works for my dad who is adamant he is going back to court soon. He does not have a God concept of time as he cannot tell u how long it has been since his license was taken.
I take him where he wants and/or needs to go.🙏🏾💜

Take the keys. Move the car to another location or sell it. Before she kills someone and whatever she has the court will take for restitution. Doesnt matter that she is not responsible - that is the reason you have to take the keys and car now. Notify DMV and court she is disabled. Tell her the court ordered it or whatever (Im sure it is hard but there is no better alternative)

I would disable the car and put a very large note under the hood to inform anyone that comes to repair it that - 1) she no longer has a license and 2) she has dementia and can no longer drive - DO NOT REPAIR THIS CAR.

It's really out of your hands as to how her legal team (since you are excluded from that process) will handle her case. Hopefully she had insurance on her car to cover the damages, or that may be part of her restitution.

Let the brother handle it and disable the car while it's at your house. Upwon her return to your house, I'd ask for the keys to drive home the point of no driving.