Independent living rent going up again! FIL needs convincing about downsizing from 2-bedroom into a 1-bedroom. Any advice?

NY - so IL each month its almost 10k in rent plus 2 shifts of Caregivers?

omg, I totally understand Why. Your. Freaking. Out.

so 150k - 180k a yr for FIL to fall risk meander about in IL?

OK there major denial happening here for both hubs and FIL. What is it? Not accepting mom’s death? Fear? Guilt? You know the dynamics best.

If the situation is an impasse, I’d try to bypass both of them and try to get management involved to get him moved.

Believe me they do not want the liability of a fall risk being a problem for the other residents of the IL section. I’m kinda surprised other IL residents aren’t complaining about those caregivers of his always being about. He’s not IL if he has to have aides pretty much continuously. Could it be that they have cut him some slack as everybody loved your late MIL, so hasn’t presssed his needing to move to higher level of care?

My mom was in IL. A tiered facility, the kind that runs from IL to AL to NH & hospice wing. IL would do fire drills and if residents could not totally on their own exit via fire stairwells, they would either be required to have a needs assessment done (they liked your parent & wanted them in AL or NH sector) or 30 day notice to move (they didn’t). Could there be anyway to have management do a fire drill?? So he’s deemed unsuitable for IL and he has no option but to move into higher level of care? Like AL or MC? So it’s no longer hubs or FILs choice.

I assume since theres a CPA, that those caregivers are being paid properly with FICA, reporting, etc? Right?

Have you (DH and you, I mean) thought of approaching the community's management for help with this? Who knows what you might be able to negotiate for him among you, and if you with their support can put a tempting offer in his way it might make it much easier. All about getting a good new deal, rather than leaving his old apartment.

How is a smaller apartment going to work with the two shifts of caregivers? Will there still be enough living space during the day?

Sometimes, just like with children, you have to lead them into the idea by not giving too many choices. Maybe you could say "the management here has suggested that they feel with some of your limited movement, a place near the elevators where you didn't have to walk as far would be ideal for you. They want you to be able to live here as long as possible. Since it's just you here now, they feel that a 1 bedroom apartment would suit your needs very well, and would free up a 2 bedroom for an incoming couple who may need more space. They showed us what was available, and we feel that it is a really good time/choice for you right now. It would make a lot less work for you in keeping up the place, and would be a lot closer for you to get to meals, etc. We think this is a really good idea and we should jump on it while it's available."  Talk to the management in advance, and go look at what's available. You and your husband decide on the 2 different units to give him the option of, and then take him to see which one he would prefer. I'm 99% sure the staff will go along with you, and won't mind pretending it is their idea. They are really good at that, in supporting the families. 
With my inlaws we had to make a simple spreadsheet that showed his income, out going expenses and his reserves. We told them that since they were still in good physical health we had to plan that they could live another 10 years! We showed them that if they kept expenses at the rate they were spending, they'd be out of money in less than 3 years. We had it printed on cardstock and hard laminated so they could refer to it. My inlaws were similar in that they had no budget and the dementia had dimmed their ability to see the bigger picture on how fast they were running through their money. For example, they lived in independent living but it included 2 meals a day, yet they were going out to eat daily???? They couldn't understand that that was not a wise use of their money. SO we had to show them the bigger picture. 

I will also encourage you to consider an assisted living situation. You can probably get a nice assisted living apartment that comes with what you are paying the extra in caregiving for. I know that I live in Texas and you live in NY, but my inlaws are in nice assisted living cottages--8 rooms per "house", with a community dining room, living room, all their cleaning and laundry done and 3 meals a day, and medication management. 24 hr assistance, for $4,700 per month--FOR 2 OF THEM--One is even in Memory Care!

My client had lived in the same house for over 50 years. The house was paid. They had No desire to move. Especially the Mr. ( this was my boyfriend’s parents I was living with and caring for). But the costs of running the home and the caregivers were also the depleting his resources. We had to go into A reverse mortgage to just have enough money to survive even though they pulled good retirements.

So yes, talk about the numbers, show him the numbers in black-and-white. project it out for him. if it’s only mild dementia he can still grasp it.

You also have to talk up the positives of the new place and follow through. That is if you promise more visits then visit more etc.

If it’s really expensive for where he lives and it’s far away from you, this is one thing I would recommend: go ahead and make the major change now instead of doing this incrementally on him ( moving again if his memory gets worse- which it will. ) it will be worse for him the more you move him.

Familiarity is very important to the client with dementia because as his memory goes, those things that he recognizes are what gives him some sanity and peace of mind as he sees himself declining. So do please avoid that as much as possible.

My heart breaks for you. Watching this progress is hard on everyone. But the least amount of changes possible is the best choice.

Get the facility on board and have them tell him they need the two bedroom for another couple, but have a lovely room closer to the elevator for him.

Less is more for seniors. It really is.

NYDIL, reflecting back on my experience with my mom in her Independent Living facility and then in her NH ( private pay, all the way for 4 1/2 years) I want to mention two things...

I knew my mom had assets. My brother was POA; his wife, my wonderful SIL has an MBA and has a much better handle on money than the rest of us. So she was always gonna be in charge of what mom could afford.

So 5k per month for IL for two years, then 10k per month in the nh, plus maintenance on her house, which we didnt sell until year 3 in the NH....I kept thinking, she's running out of money, right? We must be getting close to Medicaid, yes? Dad was an engineer and mom didnt go back to work until she was 60. Worked as a secretary for an insurance broker, so not all that much from her side of the equation. My parents were frugal, but she MUST be running out money, yes????

What I didn't realize was that my mom had a wonderful INCOME stream from my dad's pension and SS which apparently paid for IL in its entirety and fully half the NH fees.

You might want to sit down with the cpa, dh and the numbers. I suspect if CPA says fil can afford it, he's correct.

If all else fails you could always go the hardball option and force the change in the same way some people on the forum have forced a move to AL - after thoroughly explaining why it "has" to happen just let him be, then take him out for the day, hire somebody to make the switch and present him with a fait accompli.

NY, the situation you describe is nuts, but it's not of your making, is it?

(There was someone in my mom's IL who had full time aides. Everyone complained about the situation all the time; the woman was combative and sometimes loud. I believe they eventually evicted her.)

It's also not yours to solve, and certainly not with YOUR retirement funds.

Would your husband like you to take this decision making off his plate? Will he cooperate if you come up with a plan to move his dad to an AL where he wouldn't need aides?

How would talking to the facilty make things worse, do you think. I think that you need to know what management is thinking. Perhaps they've been communicating with DH and hes not sharing?

This sounds like a marriage issue to me, since it's clear that it's having an impact on yours. Will DH see a therapist with you?

Can you tell us the cultural background that is causing DH such angst and guilt?

I asked because there are places, especially in Asia, where it is basically written into the cultural code that children care for their elders. Not to do so brings shame upon the family name.

I don't know if that's the case among Spaniards. But here's the thing. You all live in the U.S. The economy, the housing and health care system is set up in such a way as to penalize folks who pay for their parents' care. It's like they say, your kids can take out loans for college. Fund your retirement first
No loans for retirement! You need to make sure that YOUR old age is funded adequately.

If FIL has funds, they need to be spent wisely on his care. If he runs out, there will be government assistance that will be available if hes indigent and medically in need of a NH.

DH might do well to consult with an eldercare attorney who understands Medicaid.

You and he might benefit from some sessions of couples therapy to work out why this is so difficult for him. And to make a plan, going forward that you both can live with.